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This is why you really need to be careful when discussion atheism, as it has only one major definition, the lack of belief in a god or gods. An atheist can still believe all sorts of nonsense such as fairies, ghosts, Bigfoot, Nessie, whatever. Not all atheists are rational skeptics and not all rational skeptics are atheists, but there is a strong correlation.
Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions.
~ Carl Sagan |
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| 01-12-2013, 04:03 AM | |
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You use the word infinite very casually. You say that this set of circumstances is no more or less probable than any of the infinite alternatives, assuming that these infinite alternatives even exist. By its very definition infinity is not an attainable state that can be achieved in reality, it is not a number, and any use of it by itself or as a means of extrapolating is a huge act of arrogance. But let's discuss your notion of infinity, even assuming that there are an infinite number of possible circumstances, that doesn't mean that every combination will work. For example, there are an infinite number of even numbers on the number line but the probability of there being an "odd" even number will always be zero. So even with your liberal usage of infinity you still end up with dead ends, universes that cannot exist at all, and others with both favorable and prohibitive conditions. Also further to the point, if one were to assume there are an infinite number of possible circumstances, one could reasonably argue that some universes have a Creator whiles others do not. I believe there are some serious problems in this line of thinking and even more indicative of your own "pure ego". The biggest problem with theories concerning infinite circumstances, or rather multi-universes is that they are essentially untestable, and because it is not falsifiable it should not be taken as real science. In the end, the idea of a multi-verse is just as contentious as other origin of the universe philosophies, and should not be labeled as scientific.
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How does any of this relate to your statement about probability? There's been more than enough discussion of infinity. We're not constructing a math problem, so the conventional usage works just fine, thanks. What's relevant to the discussion is that we should all be able to agree that coming to this state of existence without the influence of a creator is not "improbable." So, did you understand the point I was making, or did you get hung up on infinity?FYI, I don't think that a creationist has any room to criticize a theory as untestable or unfalsifiable. TIP: To avoid the stigma of literacy, listen to audio books. |
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I think what Sllvr meant is probably that the progression of time necessitates a cause and effect chronology. Every time one consequence is realized, the probability of every future consequence is affected. So, while in one sense things had to happen in an absurdly impressively specific way to result in things happening as they do now, they also couldn't have happened any other way because they've already happened. Thus, the probability that a given thing will happen now can be calculated within that context. At the same time, in a different sense, you can say that that probability is infinitesimally low. Last edited by Mixels; 04-10-2013 at 10:10 AM.. |
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