This post is in reference to this thread (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=1218645).

1) Your policy has always been that you don't accept paid advertisements in the hot deals forum. Many people feel you've already been accepting them ("disguised" as posts from mods/others).

The thread referenced above is NOT a paid advertisement, but you're heading down a very slippery slope here. It's not too much of a stretch for people to think that this IS an ad. Also not too much of a leap from this to allowing paid ad posts. Why the change in policy all of a sudden?

2) I don't see anything in the OP or wiki to indicate that this is an officially sanctioned event. This leaves other users with several incorrect impressions:
a) That it's ok to run a contest on SD
b) That it's ok to post contests in the Hot Deals forum
c) That self promotion is ok

All of these things are bad.

3) You're letting some 3rd party company run a drawing through your website. You have zero control of that. Seems pretty risky. I blame you for all problems that crop up :P

4) The OP is a store rep. There's nothing special about his account to indicate that this is a store rep. How does the SD community know that you've validated his identity? Is he allowed to post in other threads or are there restrictions? Is he allowed to have a personal account as well?


There's a lot of positive response in the thread. But that's really not a surprise, since he's having a contest and is giving away a lot of expensive free stuff. People here like free stuff :)

Summary:
I have no real problems with ad posts being allowed on the site. Allow them or don't, but be up front about it. Hiding stuff like this makes it seem like you're trying to slip something past us.

I think this is a really bad idea as it's currently implemented, but it could certainly be improved.

If you're going to allow stuff like this, you should consider making changes to make it clearer that these are approved things. You should also establish a clear policy on what it takes to get some a self-promotion thread approved.

I kind of see what you mean to a extent. The way names float around after submitting them into anything is risky. So giving these people names/address/etc could be risky and if not approved I figure that would be against the rules sense it is self advertisement. I remember when I first started posting deals I accidentally posted an ebay one that was clearly not mine but was still self advertisement and to me this is no different with consent of course.

:jawdrop: Wow. Just wow.

How about a "Meet the Merchant" subforum for this type of post?

What's happening to SD lately?

to me this is no different with consent of course.I think having consent makes a HUGE difference. But as mentioned, there's nothing obvious in the current thread to indicate that it is approved.
How about a "Meet the Merchant" subforum for this type of post?Oooh, let me predict one of their arguments against this:

"There's not enough traffic in that forum, so we're going to leave it in hot deals."

:lol:

I really like the idea of splitting it off in some way. But there would be almost zero value in having a forum just for ad posts. You wouldn't get enough people to go in there on their own, so the vendors wouldn't get enough visibility to make the ads worthwhile. Or were you thinking something beyond ads...almost like a support forum for some advertisers, where people could post questions/comments/complaints about the store?

I still can't figure out how that's not spam/self-promotion. Makes zero sense to me. :huh:

Agreed.

1) Your policy has always been that you don't accept paid advertisements in the hot deals forum. Many people feel you've already been accepting them ("disguised" as posts from mods/others).

The thread referenced above is NOT a paid advertisement, but you're heading down a very slippery slope here. It's not too much of a stretch for people to think that this IS an ad. Also not too much of a leap from this to allowing paid ad posts. Why the change in policy all of a sudden?As you said, it is not a paid advertisement, nor was it a change in policy. We normally allow companies to offer giveaways as promotions, however they are -supposed- to contact us first so we can run it through our blog officially. This company posted it on their own without letting us know first, and by the time we found it, it was well under way. After reviewing it on a special case-by-case basis, and contacting the company, we decided to let this one continue since people had already begun to "sign up" for it. We also felt that it was a good contest and well meaning for our users.


2) I don't see anything in the OP or wiki to indicate that this is an officially sanctioned event. This leaves other users with several incorrect impressions:
a) That it's ok to run a contest on SD
b) That it's ok to post contests in the Hot Deals forum
c) That self promotion is ok

All of these things are bad.Let me correct you and say that, it is okay to run a contest on SD albeit through the appropriate channels. This company now knows they need to contact us first.


3) You're letting some 3rd party company run a drawing through your website. You have zero control of that. Seems pretty risky. I blame you for all problems that crop up
I am pretty sure we have control of things that happen on our website, its as easy as hitting a delete button. We see this as a legitimate contest that benefits our users, so we let it continue.


4) The OP is a store rep. There's nothing special about his account to indicate that this is a store rep. How does the SD community know that you've validated his identity? Is he allowed to post in other threads or are there restrictions? Is he allowed to have a personal account as well?We have validated their identity.


There's a lot of positive response in the thread. But that's really not a surprise, since he's having a contest and is giving away a lot of expensive free stuff. People here like free stuff

Summary:
I have no real problems with ad posts being allowed on the site. Allow them or don't, but be up front about it. Hiding stuff like this makes it seem like you're trying to slip something past us.

I think this is a really bad idea as it's currently implemented, but it could certainly be improved.

If you're going to allow stuff like this, you should consider making changes to make it clearer that these are approved things. You should also establish a clear policy on what it takes to get some a self-promotion thread approved. We're not hiding anything, after all its painfully obvious, like you pointed out, that it is posted by a company, run by the company. We do allow these things, and we do make it clear because its usually through our blog.

As you've likely realized, we cant have a policy on everything, we take care of things as they happen. I'm sure whenever it does happen, we'll realize it quickly because you'll be there to point fingers. ;)

Summary:

Slickdeals allows contests (think about all the laptops we've given away and etc).

We approve them on a case by case basis after we're reasonably sure that it is benefiting our users and isnt some shady scheme.

This was a one-off mistake on the company's part but we didn't want to ruin the contest because of semantics.

However, since there are some people who have posted here that are very worried about it, maybe we'll have to consider banning all special giveaways by companies for slickdeals users in the future. :P

It's self-promo. It's not posted by an SD staff member. It IS posted by a rep from the company offering the deal. It's in the hot deals forum. All of those things make that thread different from the normal contests that you have on this site.

We also felt that it was a good contest and well meaning for our users.
We see this as a legitimate contest that benefits our users, so we let it continue.
What about this case makes it "well meaning"? A lot of spam "means well". I mean who wouldn't like to increase the size of their wang?
How can you validate that this is a legitimate contest, unless you have the prizes? It's not clear that you are protecting SD users here. If the vendor bails on this contest, will SD provide prizes to all of the winners?

Are you saying that self-promo/spam is acceptable as long as it's still a good deal?
I am pretty sure we have control of things that happen on our website, its as easy as hitting a delete button. We see this as a legitimate contest that benefits our users, so we let it continue.I believe that you're missing the point. You do not control the names that get entered into the contest, and you do not control the drawing.

I was under the impression that the sponsors provided the prizes, but that SD staff verified the entries were legit (not someone that created 50 accounts to give themselves a better chance at winning) and conducted the contests. Contests run on your site use your rules and your privacy policy. Contests run by other parties are not necessarily going to follow the same rules.

Are you saying that some/all of the contests you currently post in the announcements forum are run by the companies providing the prizes (or some marketing firm that they've hired) and NOT SD?

This goes way beyond semantics into serious legal issues.
We're not hiding anything, after all its painfully obvious, like you pointed out, that it is posted by a company, run by the companyObvious? You have to be kidding me. BTW, there's still no post near the OP of that thread that states that this is an approved thing.
I'm sure whenever it does happen, we'll realize it quickly because you'll be there to point fingersSomeone has to be there to keep you honest. It's not one of your strong points :harhar:
However, since there are some people who have posted here that are very worried about it, maybe we'll have to consider banning all special giveaways by companies for slickdeals users in the future.Thanks for the threat. Really helps us have a productive discussion.

Please note the user response that you got here, and keep that in mind for future experiments.

Thank you. Now in honor of this thread, I've changed my user pic. :whee:

While BA is about a million times more passionate about this than I am, I agree with him.
If it's an approved contest, it should be in the contests forum (without the deal links that make it a self promo thread) and it should have approval from a mod.
I can't think of any specific threads, but I can remember giveaways from users being in that forum with mod notes mentioning that it was approved.
I can also think of store owners being banned for posting in their own product/website threads. Why is this being treated differently?

Sierra Snowboard is a respectable merchant. The ones we banned have been shady or posting crappy deals (hence the thumbs down) and we don't make exceptions for those merchants. There is a big difference with allowing spam/self promotion (your "big wang" example) vs allowing a well meaning giveaway with a great deal. Even if Sierra never posted the deal, another SD'er will and the community will lose out on the free giveaway.

As bryantq mentioned, this contest already started and our users love it. It would be drastic to ban and put a halt to a well meaning giveaway. What would you do? Ban them? Please offer a good solution and we'll keep that in mind if it happens next time.

As for multiple accounts, we'll help Sierra verify the winner.

Sierra Snowboard is a respectable merchant. The ones we banned have been shady or posting crappy deals (hence the thumbs down) and we don't make exceptions for those merchants. There is a big difference with allowing spam/self promotion (your "big wang" example) vs allowing a well meaning giveaway with a great deal. Even if Sierra never posted the deal, another SD'er will and the community will lose out on the free giveaway.

As bryantq mentioned, this contest already started and our users love it. It would be drastic to ban and put a halt to a well meaning giveaway. What would you do? Ban them? Please offer a good solution and we'll keep that in mind if it happens next time.

As for multiple accounts, we'll help Sierra verify the winner.

Good solutions:

1) Move to annoucements forum.
- Shows that it's approved
- Keeps the ad out of hot deals

2) Yes, ban the user.
- Happens for everyone else doing self promo (doesn't matter if it benefits SD users or not).
- No harm to slickdealers here (the earlier you nuke it, the better; if there are too many people following it, lock it with an explanation)
- After they talk to you, you can clearly explain your policy and set up an official contest

Both you and bryant have mentioned "well meaning". Is that the guideline you want applied to other spam/self-promo posts?

Of COURSE the users posting in that thread love it...people here love free stuff. Please note that my post didn't say anything about stopping giveaways on SD. There are good ways and bad ways for a contest to be run on SD. This is not a good way.

I agree with BackAgain on this.

No self-promo is an SD rule,
and one that should override no Member contests without SD admin/mod approval.

The reasoning given by SD admin/mods so far is shaky at best.

I would add that a good solution might have been to tell the op to end it,
lock it, and give winners,
warning him with an explanation of SD rules
and continuing to work toward not allowing our rules to be broken.

...and why was a contest in hot deals to begin with - people dropped the ball on this one!, imho

Now that it is over - let's hope that if it is allowed to be done again, it goes through the proper channels and is placed in the correct forum,
as per SD rules.

I honestly do not see an issue.. The company messed up.. Was warned, will not do it again, has been approved by SD.

This is not a one post wonder or zero post wonder so no ban is warranted! By the time this post was made they already had about 20 other posts and member for 4 months + so that does not fly.. I would issue 4 warning points to them for breaking rule:Self Promotion (Merchants) Linking to a merchant site where the poster is obviously associated with.

That is basically all they did. At that point it is up to the MOD and SD to rule if it should stay. This obviously benefited SD and they should stay. If they do the same thing again issue another 4 point warning and if again BAN for being over 10 points...

If I understand the warnings right this offense does not and should not be a BAN scenario but yet simply a warning..

Just my 2 cents.

i joined the contest :hide: