Well I started looking for a HD camera back in June since my baby girl will be here in a couple of weeks (she's due Nov 23 but may need C-Section early). I was going to get a Canon HFS100 since I want good 1080P quality and thought the high-quality stills would be helpful. I have a Nikon D80 with a 18-200 VR lens but figure I would have my hands full with the baby and could appreciate the 8MP stills.

Question is this model has been out for about a year. Is there anything new from Canon on the horizon (or any brand for that matter) that seems like the "one to beat" around the $1k mark. I haven't been seeing too many deals on the Flash based 1080P camcorders.

Anybody have any suggestions or theories? I figure the manufacturers would want to get something out by Christmas to hit the buying season.

The only great pick up at the moment is the Canon Vixia HF20 from Best Buy @ $499.99. A Dual-flash camcorder that has 32GB of internal flash memory, and an expansion slot for SDHC cards. Don't grab the bundle set that comes with an extra Li-Ion battery and 8" HDMI cable ($599.97)... not worth the extra $99.98. If you really want a spare battery, grab a generic one. It won't have the Canon battery chip in it (you won't be able to see battery life), but some of the generics out there have LED meters built-on them already.

Sears has a Samsung HMX-H100 for $399.99, but you can get it for that price elsewhere already. It is an average performer.

If you have that much money to burn on a camcorder may as well get the Canon GL1, a true professional quality camcorder. Film students and amateur film makers use this thing to make commercials and movies.

Personally I've been eyeing the Sony DSC-H20 with it's 1080p video capability. The zoom is just as powerful (10X) and it's smaller than the Canon HFS100 and less than 1/3 of the price. The only con for video is that you're limited to a max 32 minutes or so of one continuous clip, but for most people that's not an issue. From the clips on Youtube the video quality appears about the same for both models.

If you have that much money to burn on a camcorder may as well get the Canon GL1, a true professional quality camcorder. Film students and amateur film makers use this thing to make commercials and movies.

Personally I've been eyeing the Sony DSC-H20 with it's 1080p video capability. The zoom is just as powerful (10X) and it's smaller than the Canon HFS100 and less than 1/3 of the price. The only con for video is that you're limited to a max 32 minutes or so of one continuous clip, but for most people that's not an issue. From the clips on Youtube the video quality appears about the same for both models.
Just an FYI, the GL1 is an old standard definition camera that records to mini-dv

Just an FYI, the GL1 is an old standard definition camera that records to mini-dv

Yea but the Sony records in hi-def! :):):)

I am waiting to see if there is a deal on the canon vixia hf s100. I would really like to get that one.

Thaank you for this thread, and YES. I want to find a camera this year that is affordable yet shoots in at least 720p. Works on the go if my girlfriend is filming and doesn't know how to use it, but allows for me to do some fancier settings on my own if I learn how.

I have read the HF S100 is pretty cool....and I can't wait to hear SD'ers who have more experience in this field to give us their input. Because for every price range this year there will be "the camera to get"...

Well my baby is due very shortly and I just couldn't wait any longer so I just ended up getting the Vixia HFS100 as well. I found it for $853 at ButterflyPhoto (it's an Authorized Canon Retailer). I clicked through Bing so hopefully should get 2-5% cashback. The site doesn't have as good a rating as J&R, but J&R and Amazon are $47 more. My AmEx is willing to take the risk :lol:

Doing a little research found out the battery packs are chipped (much like ink cartridges) so Canon can make more $. God I hate proprietary crap. Fortunately there seem to be generics available for $40-$50 which are better than the Canon stock ones (you just won't get a read on battery life from the camera).

I'll probably end up selling it in 6 months or a year anyways as the technology develops.

@guitar2k:

I have the HF100, and I've tinkered with the HF S100. I haven't read or heard about any new HD lines coming out soon, since the latest offering is the HF S11 that just dropped this past September 2009.

If you want to save some cash, pick up the HF100 or HF200. They don't have built-in flash memory, but tend to be a bit cheaper than the HF10 (16GB) and HF11/20 (32GB each) versions. Last I checked at TigerDirect, both the HF100 (refurb) and HF10 (probably refurb too) are both $499.99. But if you honestly don't mind spending the extra cash for a better camera, then the HF S100 is the choice. I'm sure you know the reasons since you picked it as your original choice.

There are people who will argue against AVCHD cameras-- mostly because they don't have editing stations that can edit avchd files in their raw form. Most are trying to edit on their Macs or consumer-level editing software, but are forced to transcode to a different format before they can be edited, which results in quality degradation. The later versions of Sony Vegas (v.7 and up) can handle avchd nicely as a semi-pro editor, allowing you to edit the highest quality footage you can get from your camera.

I don't wanna write too much, so if there are specifics you wanna know, PM me or reply here.

PS:
I love the HF100, but wouldn't mind picking up a HF S100 if I really needed it. Again, if you don't mind the money spending, then the HF S100 would be a great pick up!

Well my baby is due very shortly and I just couldn't wait any longer so I just ended up getting the Vixia HFS100 as well. I found it for $853 at ButterflyPhoto (it's an Authorized Canon Retailer). I clicked through Bing so hopefully should get 2-5% cashback. The site doesn't have as good a rating as J&R, but J&R and Amazon are $47 more. My AmEx is willing to take the risk :lol:

Doing a little research found out the battery packs are chipped (much like ink cartridges) so Canon can make more $. God I hate proprietary crap. Fortunately there seem to be generics available for $40-$50 which are better than the Canon stock ones (you just won't get a read on battery life from the camera).

How do you like the camera so far? And yes, proprietary crap sucks-- thank God for generics. I have two generic sets for my HF100 and they're holding up well. They have built-in power meters that you can read off the batteries themselves from a push button. Since the generics don't have the Canon chips built in, you'll always get that nagging reminder everytime you turn on the camera about it not recognizing the battery. Other than that, they've treated me well.

I'll probably end up selling it in 6 months or a year anyways as the technology develops.

Already on the look out for an upgrade?

I also have had the HF100 for over a year now and still use it a good bit.

Its really a great camera for its size. I'm by no means a professional and just wanted a camera to record some family events, parties etc.

The software mine came with did not work with a mac so I had to purchase some software to convert the video files to .Mov.

Now that I have a new mac mini I can just hookup the camera to the mini and it will import and convert the videos for me into iMovie.

Here is a link to a few of the videos I've shot with it.

http://vimeo.com/user508471/videos

I've been shopping for 2 years and have yet to bite the bullet given the price ($1k more or less, not discounted much). Debating between the Canon and Sony. I would not even consider something that is not HD and does not record to a hard drive. MiniDV will be obsolete in a few years.

Not holding my breath this year, but often Amazon has some good deals on the runup to black friday and for a couple of weeks afterwards.

I am not super concerned about Hi Def, all I want is the ability to record onto a HD and/or SD card. Also have a baby coming, would like to stick under 300 if anyone could give some suggestions or tips

I've been shopping for 2 years and have yet to bite the bullet given the price ($1k more or less, not discounted much). Debating between the Canon and Sony. I would not even consider something that is not HD and does not record to a hard drive. MiniDV will be obsolete in a few years.

Not holding my breath this year, but often Amazon has some good deals on the runup to black friday and for a couple of weeks afterwards.

You can't go wrong with either brands, but I've always preferred most Canon and Panasonic products over Sony (probably my industry experiences speaking). As an everyday consumer, the little nit-picks of each camera shouldn't be TOO much of a factor. Go out to your nearest electronics store and try each camera out. Research online for sample clips to get an idea of viewing quality.

And for 2 years?! A lot of the cameras have dropped well below $1k already. What is your budget and criteria for the right camera?

I am not super concerned about Hi Def, all I want is the ability to record onto a HD and/or SD card. Also have a baby coming, would like to stick under 300 if anyone could give some suggestions or tips

lots of cameras under 300 that record to HDD or Flash memory. Now it depends on what style of camera you want. Do you want a pocket camcorder (Kodak Zi8, Flip Video Mino, etc.) or do you want a traditional handheld camcorder (Canon FS200, Sony Handycam, etc.)?

Next you'll have to decide what qualities and features you want.

Handheld, like I said, not too concerned about the HD. I thought I have seen some for around 279-300, just not sure of the quality

Handheld, like I said, not too concerned about the HD. I thought I have seen some for around 279-300, just not sure of the quality

Yeah, i understand HD isn't a big deal, but what sort of features are you looking for? Some people MUST have Image Stabilization. Others want the option to take excellent Still Images on the side or a camera that has a great Optical Zoom.

As for quality, you can only get so much out of Standard Definition. The JVC Everio GZ-MS120 or Canon Legria FS200 are nice SD camcorders. They both range in the mid-$200 sets.

Gotcha, well I have a nice digital camera, so dont need the still photos.

Seems like you prefer the HD by a wide range, is it that big of a difference in camcorders? If so, what kind of SD can I find on one

Gotcha, well I have a nice digital camera, so dont need the still photos.
If you're looking for SD camcorders, you'll find plenty that don't do still photos. If you're looking for HD camcorders, most will have this option already.

Seems like you prefer the HD by a wide range, is it that big of a difference in camcorders?
huge difference, but i work in the film industry, so maybe it's a bias? maybe i should put up a comparison of the two formats.

not sure how technical i should be speaking but, in short, HD is more forgiving than SD-- in editing for example. You have the option to render the video project as is in HD format, or downscale to SD format... and STILL have amazing video. and thinking ahead into the future, you're kind of future-proofing the quality of your videos at the expense of a $100+ difference. i guess it's like comparing Hi-8 video to DV (or mini-dv). Which of the two would you choose to preserve the quality videos you'll be taking in the next few years?

If so, what kind of SD can I find on one
well, for the traditional handheld HD camcorders, you'll find them in the price range of $350+. Deals come and go, and I don't know of any spectacular deals to jump on at the moment. I got my HF100 for $420 brand new a few months back.

well you have sold me and its something that will get alot of use between the newborn and all the sports I coach.

Thanks man, you've been a big help. If you see a deal please forward it along and if I see one maybe I can ask your opinion

well you have sold me and its something that will get alot of use between the newborn and all the sports I coach.

Thanks man, you've been a big help. If you see a deal please forward it along and if I see one maybe I can ask your opinion
check your pm, sent you a reply.

anyway, i made the mistake of giving someone sort of wrong info the last time around about the HF100 not being a true 1080p camcorder (only when shooting at 24/30p)-- it just doesn't shoot 1080/60p. the average consumer will prefer shooting at 60 frames/s though because of the smoothness during action scenes. if they're reading this thread, sorry for the misinformation.

if you want a camcorder under $1k that shoots HD, then the Canon HF100 is a great camera. but let me also say the Canon HV20/30 is good as well. they are both under $1k and they shoot great HD video so you can't go wrong picking either one.
also don't forget the new DSLR camera's that are out. they shoot great HD video and shoot great pictures. they do cost more then $1k but hey, it shoots photo's so you can sell your digital camera!
I'd recomend the Nikon D90 or the Panasonic GH1.

as far as resolution goes, I'd say HD is just a selling point word they use so don't be fooled by that.
just look at the sample footage you see and pick your favorite camera.

Just think about it, the BlueRay movie's you buy are all HD movies but they don't look anything like the HF100 footage right! it's more about the formatte and cencer that's inside the camera.

as far as resolution goes, I'd say HD is just a selling point word they use so don't be fooled by that.
just look at the sample footage you see and pick your favorite camera.
i'd have to disagree with HD being just a "selling point word." i'll agree it's advertised in misleading ways sometimes, but the reason "HD" is branded on these cameras is because they offer higher resolution recording-- the main selling point for the cameras. How else would you advertise HD cameras? Can you honestly say a scene shot with one SD camera, and one HD camera, will yield the same or similar results? Unless the SD camera is industry-grade, you won't get similar quality.

Just think about it, the BlueRay movie's you buy are all HD movies but they don't look anything like the HF100 footage right! it's more about the formatte and cencer that's inside the camera.
:confused: You can't compare BR movie quality to consumer camera quality. Plus, you're trying to compare professional-grade equipment to consumer-grade equipment. You wouldn't compare DVD movies to a homemade mini-DV footage, so i'm not sure what your logic is.

and sure, video format and sensors are important, but given the same/similar format and sensor size in each SD and HD camera, which will carry a higher quality? my 1/3" 3CCD DVX100A (SD) doesn't look nearly as good as my 1/3.2" CMOS HF100 (HD) in terms of everyday shooting. The DVX is a prosumer-grade mini-dv camera that still sells for roughly $1000+, yet my HF100 is a consumer-grade flash format camera that i netted for $420--can be found for around the same price when deals come around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evkr_RiJps0
Under $300 the Sony DSC H20 is really no slouch when it comes to HD video. Crystal clear and great in lo light. I really don't understand why anybody bothers with traditional camcorders anymore if you're just shooting baby. The H20 will blow a lot of digital cameras out of the water as well with it's still image shots.

The only con to the Sony H20 is the limitation of 30 or so odd minutes of continuous shooting. The batteries will take a good 2+ hours before they need changing, which isn't that much different than a regular camcorder. One the plus side, the format output (MP4) used takes up less memory because it's a little more efficient. This is one of the more important aspects to me since I'm the one that has to edit the video. If you have 100 hrs of video this takes up a lot of space. It's also one reason I won't use 60fps even if my camera had it, because it just takes up more memory.

I really don't understand why anybody bothers with traditional camcorders anymore if you're just shooting baby.
There are some features you can't get on a DSLR often found on Camcorders, and vice versa.

As for quality, it comes down to personal preference. There are differences between images shot on DSLR vs Camcorder, and differences between video shot on DSLR and Camcorder. My friend has no preference for video features and quality, so he'd pick a DSLR with HD video over a camcorder. I prefer a camcorder for doing what it's made to do, shoot video-- but i also have the option to shoot still images if i was in a pinch. I have a DSLR and a P&S for stills-- with the occasional P&S video shooting when i'm on-the-go. I also prefer 60fps when shooting home videos and special events-- action scenes and panning shots come out smoother than on a 24/30fps clip.

Just my preference.

I have been using a Canon HF100 for the past seven months and pretty happy about it.

bought it for $505 at short notice when new. use three 8GB SD cards for my recordings (each 8$ on the Sandisk rebate deal).

The bundled pixela's image mixer software is good enough for home level editing. the downloaded m2ts files play great in windows media player.

The resolution is amazing compared to a crappy samsung mini dv corder i had, plus the conveinence of sllipping the SD card in the slot and importing the movie files cant be beaten!

The most underrated camera IMHO is the Sanyo VPC-CG10BK. 60fps with SlowMo. Amazing reviews to boot as well. check it out HERE (http://www.testfreaks.com/digital-camcorders/sanyo-xacti-vpc-hd2000/) and HERE (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sanyo-Xacti-VPC-HD2000-Camcorder-Review-36280.htm#)

Probably add Kodak Zi8 to the list as well

all this talk and no deals? I have an HV30 now and I'm looking to get a HF200 or HFS100 in the HF200 price range. Is that unrealistic?

all this talk and no deals? I have an HV30 now and I'm looking to get a HF200 or HFS100 in the HF200 price range. Is that unrealistic?

not at all realistic... well, not anytime soon. it went for about $850 the last week or so, and that's as low as i've ever seen it.

Panasonic is a great competitor.

Their TM-15 is full HD, with a 16 GB imbedded memory. Found only at Best Buy stores.
It has THE best OPTICAL image stablization. Check out other brands. They only have electronic image stabilization. Panasonic's OIS makes an adjustment 4000 times a second! Amazing zoom recordings!!!

Panasonic is a great competitor.

Their TM-15 is full HD, with a 16 GB imbedded memory. Found only at Best Buy stores.
It has THE best OPTICAL image stablization. Check out other brands. They only have electronic image stabilization.

The Canon HF line have them. -- OIS.

Edit: actually, a lot of the brands do. which models were you comparing them to?

Found an HFS100 on ebay for $859.00 Buy It Now. If using Bing Cashback, it'll bring the final cost after CB down to $790.28. I checked shipping fee to zip 92021, they had free UPS Ground. No tax for my zip either. 2 Available!

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Canon-VIXIA-HF-S100-Flash-Memory-HD-Camcorder_W0QQitemZ110453511465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b78ad529#ht_3288wt_9 89

Found an HFS100 on ebay for $859.00 Buy It Now. If using Bing Cashback, it'll bring the final cost after CB down to $790.28. I checked shipping fee to zip 92021, they had free UPS Ground. No tax for my zip either. 2 Available!

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Canon-VIXIA-HF-S100-Flash-Memory-HD-Camcorder_W0QQitemZ110453511465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b78ad529#ht_3288wt_9 89


How about the one at butterfly photo w/ 853$ free ground shipping and no tax ( except NJ) ?
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/prodinfo.phtml?id=3856&ref=Froogle_New
I hope they will sell sub 800 near BF.

yeah, someone posted that deal already in the Hot Deals section. it's not too bad of a deal, i'm just hoping it drops a bit more into the 750-800 range without the need for rebates, coupons, or cashback. maybe then i'll pick one up and use the hf100 as a B-camera.

Yeah I'm the one who posted about the HF-S100 for $853 at Butterfly Photo. Well my HF-S100 is coming in on Monday (11/09) so I'll give a review after I learn it (my last camcorder was from about 20 years ago :lol:)

Butterfly Photo is like your standard NJ store - they call you afterwards and try to sell all the extra crap. I agreed to a 5hour battery/charger for $49.99 and upgrade to 5 day shipping for $5 more (since baby is due in next 14 days :eek:). Total was $905 or something before Bing. The sales guy was pretty clueless about the battery since he didn't even know the mAh rating - he just said it's 5 hours over and over. The good aftermarket ones are about $40 + shipping, so I figured $50 (no tax for me here in CA) with a charger wasn't bad.

Only issue is I haven't seen the Bing posted yet. I hope the adjustment to the price/total didn't mess up my Bing :confused::mad:

BTW so there isn't confusion - the HFS100 is different/higher up than the HF-100. I think both can do 24Mbps bandwidth recording (pretty HQ HD) but the HF-S100 has very good still shot capability - about 8.5MP. The HF-100 I think was 3 or something off the top of my head. Probably some other better specs to justify the $400 price difference. I already have a Nikon D80 with some nice glass, but if you're ever seen a parent you know they're lucky if they ever have one hand free. I want to be able to take pics while shooting with one device instead or worrying about dropping a $2k camera/lens.

The sales guy was pretty clueless about the battery since he didn't even know the mAh rating - he just said it's 5 hours over and over. The good aftermarket ones are about $40 + shipping, so I figured $50 (no tax for me here in CA) with a charger wasn't bad.


I wouldn't expect the salesman to know the mah rating for a replacement battery. That's expecting too much. Now, not bothering to look it up after being pressed is one thing, but knowing off the top of your head is different. I would not expect them to memorize every little spec for each product they own, that is not reasonable. It's not even applicable in this case.

BTW so there isn't confusion - the HFS100 is different/higher up than the HF-100. I think both can do 24Mbps bandwidth recording (pretty HQ HD) but the HF-S100 has very good still shot capability - about 8.5MP. The HF-100 I think was 3 or something off the top of my head. Probably some other better specs to justify the $400 price difference.
The HF S100 has a larger image sensor at 1/2.6" vs the HF100 at 1/3.2". The HF S100 can shoot at 24Mbps, but the HF100 can only shoot up to 17Mbps-- the HF200 shoots at 24Mbps though. There are other little things, but the HF S100 is pretty much a premium, upgrade version of the HF100.

I already have a Nikon D80 with some nice glass, but if you're ever seen a parent you know they're lucky if they ever have one hand free. I want to be able to take pics while shooting with one device instead or worrying about dropping a $2k camera/lens.
It worked well on our family trips to 6 Flags, Disneyland, and Legoland California! It made taking pictures and video of the kids a breeze. You can also shoot stills while in video mode!!-- but they'll end up being in the resolution you set your video to.

This is something I might consider for a Xmas present
I would need to be able to record my sons Lacrosse and Football games
Could you SDers recommend something ?
Thanks
Jason

I wouldn't expect the salesman to know the mah rating for a replacement battery. That's expecting too much. Now, not bothering to look it up after being pressed is one thing, but knowing off the top of your head is different. I would not expect them to memorize every little spec for each product they own, that is not reasonable. It's not even applicable in this case.

If the salesperson is the one making the hard sell then it would only make sense for the sales person to know the stats. Anybody who know a little bit about batteries knows that mAh is how their capacity is rated. If he is going to sell a higher end option he should know the details. It would be akin to a car salesperson saying to go with the upgraded motor but not knowing the displacement of it. Maybe some people don't care if the sales person knows or not since they do their own research, but I find confidence when the seller actually knows their specs. I'm a physician but I'm getting my realtors license. If I expect to sell a house I better know everything I can about the house if I expect to be doing my duty to the buyer.


The HF S100 has a larger image sensor at 1/2.6" vs the HF100 at 1/3.2". The HF S100 can shoot at 24Mbps, but the HF100 can only shoot up to 17Mbps-- the HF200 shoots at 24Mbps though. There are other little things, but the HF S100 is pretty much a premium, upgrade version of the HF100.


It worked well on our family trips to 6 Flags, Disneyland, and Legoland California! It made taking pictures and video of the kids a breeze. You can also shoot stills while in video mode!!-- but they'll end up being in the resolution you set your video to.


Thanks for the info. I researched the specs at 3 AM last month and found the HF-S100 to be the best (bandwidth and sensor). The HF-S10 is the same as the HF-S100 except it has 32MB of internal memory so you don't need a SD card. Not worth it in most people's opinion since it's about $200 more.

The HF-S11 just came out 2 months ago so I expect to see a HF-S110 in about 3 or 4 month. At that point in time I think prices will drop on the entire line, but until then I think it will stay where it's at (just like DSLR cameras don't drop until the new one is about to come out). You might be able to, however, get a better price than the $853 and BCB price I posted if some retailer were to up the cash back percent to something crazy like 15 or 20%. If Tiger Direct were to go to 15% for example, most people don't pay tax and it has free shipping and 15% Bing would drop it below $800.

How about Sanyo VPC-FH1 HD ? Is it any good? I am thinking to get a camcorder under 400 with 1080p 60fs. I search over youtube for some footage and think this one can be considered.

VPC-FH1 stabilization isn't very good. The deshaker filter in virtualdub might help with stabilization though.

How about Sanyo VPC-FH1 HD ? Is it any good? I am thinking to get a camcorder under 400 with 1080p 60fs. I search over youtube for some footage and think this one can be considered.

Sanyo doesn't normally rank high with the heavy weights such as Sony, Canon, or Panasonic-- but this camcorder comes close with its nifty features. In terms of overall picture quality, it's above average, nearing the heavy weights. Sanyo does not implement the standard AVCHD codec, but an MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 codec in this camera. If you're looking for a budget alternative to the Big-3, this isn't too bad of a choice.

And cocomonk22 made a good point, the Sanyo has digital image stabilization-- which is inferior to Optical.

I did a quick review match of various cam products out there. For some reason I felt the HDC-TM300 rated better than Canon HSF100. Any thoughts about this one?

Btw, no one in the thread talked about best cam offers for BF?

Wow, amazing thread!

We're expecting our first child in January so we need to capture the moment and many special moments thereafter. Myself and the Mrs. were hoping to catch a decent black friday deal going on. Where do I want to look for a good online (we hate crowds) deal for Black Friday? Our only requirements are that it is HD and can do still images (because our digital camera recently went kapoot :mad:).

I guess i'm looking for the best BANG for our buck at around $400 or so...any suggestions? All help is really appreciated....

I did a ton of research last year and settled on the Canon HG20 for $528 (a super slick deal lol). So far, it has been a great camera. I believe the HF S10 (or S100) is currently one of the best in terms of image quality. Be aware, however, that while a good HD camera will advertise 1920x1080 resolution, this isn't exactly true. Sure, that's how many pixels you have, but in that regard you could simply take an image a quarter that size and scale it up by four. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ has some pretty good information on camera specs and lists their actual optical resolution.

Be aware, however, that whatever camera you choose will be technological obsolete in a year or so (don't you hate that?).

I did a quick review match of various cam products out there. For some reason I felt the HDC-TM300 rated better than Canon HSF100. Any thoughts about this one?
The battle between the HS/TM300 and the HF S10/100 is an ongoing debate. The TM300 has more pro style manual features such as the focus ring. The HF S can shoot 1920x1080p/60 at 24Mbits/sec while the TM can only get up to 1920x1080i/60 at 17Mbits/sec. Image quality is completely personal-- the HF S has slightly more grain, but shoots brighter images and captures rich colors-- although you can set it to shoot more like the TM if you wanted to (shoots colors more naturally).

Price is another issue for prospective buyers. Buyers just need to know what their budgets are and what they really want in a camcorder. If budget wasn't an issue, i'd take the TM over the HF S. Since having a budget is the issue at hand, the HF S would be the better choice for most consumers--more specifically, the HF S100. The HF S line all capture great images, shoot at the highest achievable AVCHD quality at the moment, and are no fuss cameras for the typical consumer. BUT, if you're a photo/film hobbyist, the TM would be the better choice because of its features.

HF S = Cheaper, high quality consumer camera
HS/TM = Pricier, high quality consumer camera poking at prosumer-like features

Btw, no one in the thread talked about best cam offers for BF?
I don't think I've found any stellar BF cam offers yet.

I did a ton of research last year and settled on the Canon HG20 for $528 (a super slick deal lol). So far, it has been a great camera. I believe the HF S10 (or S100) is currently one of the best in terms of image quality. Be aware, however, that while a good HD camera will advertise 1920x1080 resolution, this isn't exactly true. Sure, that's how many pixels you have, but in that regard you could simply take an image a quarter that size and scale it up by four. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ has some pretty good information on camera specs and lists their actual optical resolution.
You raised a good point, but most consumers won't look further than image quality, features, and price point. Which cameras were you referring to by the way? (the ones that advertise 1920x1080 HD, but uses scaled images)

Be aware, however, that whatever camera you choose will be technological obsolete in a year or so (don't you hate that?).
consumer HD camcorders just peaked not long ago due to the price points, but they've been in the market for a couple years now-- prosumer HD cameras have been out longer. Technology does progress and upgrades itself overtime, but the core of the technology is still there. HD cameras started with 1440x1080, but progressed to 1920x1080 the last few years. So no, I don't believe that all technology becomes obsolete in a year or so, just some.

Our only requirements are that it is HD and can do still images (because our digital camera recently went kapoot :mad:).

I guess i'm looking for the best BANG for our buck at around $400 or so...any suggestions? All help is really appreciated....
Are you looking for the traditional handheld camcorder or pocket camcorder?

Not sure... I keep eyeing this Sony DSC H20 that Stevenq keeps talking about. Looks like it's got a 10.1mp camera but also does 720p video footage? Anyone have this or have some good info on it? Would this be a good choice for a birth/special events if i'm looking for a camera/camcorder?

The Best Buy Canon HF20 for $499 is the best deal so far, but it's still only an OK deal. The HF20 has a 1/4" censor which means it doesn't perform as well in low light or image quality as some of the others with larger sensors. I'd rather pay $450 or less for something with a tiny censor.

HF200

Why would you not buy this camera? It's like $511 new through a number of places, and records in HD on an SD card?

I am just wondering what the best camera to get is....even if its not a black friday deal.

I want to record HD in the lowest price possible.

So it sounds like its the HF200 vs. Sony DSC H20.... who wins????

Well the HF200 records in like AVCHD which is a little tricky to edit at first, and requires additional software to edit properly. People cite poor light recording is eh. Battery life and microphone are normal complaints, and this cam has them as well. But if you are serious about recording, you would buy more batteries, and a shotgun microphone or something.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16830120313

Thats where I am getting opinions from.

I can't find any info this Sony camera. JVC has a camera in the $500-600 price range, but it has a smaller CCD (worse video quality I assume), but I think the HF200 is the only camcorder worth buying for $500. Just keep in mind you will probably want to buy another battery, and some SD cards. And some patience for learning how to work with the movie files, and edit them properly.

http://www.thecamcorderreview.com/canon-vixia-hf200-hd-flash-memory-camcorder-w15x-optical-zoom/

.I can't find any info this Sony camera.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-H20-Digital-Stabilization/product-reviews/B001OI2LV8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/sony-cyber-shot-dsc/4505-6501_7-33521241.html

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_cybershot_dsc_h20_review/

Been doing some more research on the HF200... looks like it only has a 3mp camera when it comes to still images where the DSC H20 has a 10 megapixel camera. Major difference if looking for still images. I think the HF200 is more centered around being a camcorder, but the Sony looks to give you the best of both worlds.....

You can say the same for "major differences" in video quality too. The DSC-H20 is a photo camera natively, and can only shoot up to 720p video. The HF2xx is a video camera natively, and can shoot up to 1080p and at rates up to 24Mbits/sec. You can't compare the two since they're not in the same product range. Since this is a video camcorder thread, we should probably stick to comparing camcorders with camcorders.

here's an advice for those who want some real world, personal experiences with these camcorders. i gave this advice to another SDer who PMed me about camcorder info.

Grab some SDHC, MS Pro DUO, etc cards-- it's fine if you don't have all types, but have SDHC for sure. Make sure you have a minimum of 2 each (i.e. 2x SDHC or 2x MS Pro DUO, or 2x XYZ). Go to your nearest electronics store and pop in the memory cards into the camcorders on display. The reason why you'll need at least 2 flash cards is because each camcorder initializes the flash card specifically to the camera's hardware and software settings, so each camera will require its own flash card (i.e. Canon, Panasonic use SDHC, Sony uses MS PRO Duo). Start shooting random things in store to test the camera out. Try zooming in and out, panning fast and slow, quality settings, white balance features, still image features (if any), other manual functions and auto functions, etc... When you're done, take the cards back home and upload the files to your PC or Mac. Then you'll see how big the raw video files are, what video format they're in, how well they edit on your system, how well they playback on your equipment, image quality, etc.

As I said earlier in the wiki, the HF20 is the only good deal going on for BF. It's not the most spectacular deal, but it's the only one that's listed for BF that has some quality to it. If you don't want to spend $499 + tax on BF, I'd personally recommend grabbing the HF100/10. If you have more money to spend, like say... 800+, keep an eye out for either the Canon HF S line up, or the Panasonic TM300/350.

I did a quick review match of various cam products out there. For some reason I felt the HDC-TM300 rated better than Canon HSF100. Any thoughts about this one?

Btw, no one in the thread talked about best cam offers for BF?

Anyone comparing HDC-TM300 with the rest?

Not sure... I keep eyeing this Sony DSC H20 that Stevenq keeps talking about. Looks like it's got a 10.1mp camera but also does 720p video footage? Anyone have this or have some good info on it? Would this be a good choice for a birth/special events if i'm looking for a camera/camcorder?
Are you looking for a photo camera that has video capabilities? Not to come off negatively, but if still images is your concern, maybe you should start a new thread for it. I think you'd have a better chance if you started a thread about Digital Cameras with HD video.

Anyone comparing HDC-TM300 with the rest?
if you go back a few posts, you'll see I did a quick comparison between the TM and the HF S. Which cameras did you want to compare it with?

You can say the same for "major differences" in video quality too. The DSC-H20 is a photo camera natively, and can only shoot up to 720p video. The HF2xx is a video camera natively, and can shoot up to 1080p @ 24Mbits/sec.

Are you looking for a photo camera that has video capabilities? Not to come off negatively, but if still images is your concern, maybe you should start a new thread for it. I think you'd have a better chance if you started a thread about Digital Cameras with HD video.

As stated in my original post, my main concern is video because of the birth of my child coming up in January, but my wife and I would also like the functionality of good still images due to our digital camera recently pooping out on us. In case you haven't read the beginnings of this thread there was question as to why people were even using standard camcorders anymore due to the functionality of alot of today's digital cameras. Thus, the bringing up of the DSC H20 who's price range is around $250-$275 as compared to the lowest quality camcorder i've seen at around the $400-500 range. You should check out the entire thread before throwing out accusations as to what and what not to speak about in a thread you haven't payed attention to in the first place.

As far as saying the Sony can't compare in video quality due to being 720p vs 1080p I have to respectively disagree. I have both a 720p and 1080p hd television in my house and having them sit back side I can hardly notice any difference in picture quality. Now unless the difference is much more substantial in camcorder video footage (which I don't see why it would be) I wouldn't consider this a "major" difference like a 10 megapixels vs. 3 megapixels for still images.

With all this being said, I dont profess to being any kind of an expert in case anyone gets their panties in a twist. I'm simply defending the context for the thread and trying to find the best deal for quality hd video recording and good still images. :look:

As stated in my original post, my main concern is video because of the birth of my child coming up in January, but my wife and I would also like the functionality of good still images due to our digital camera recently pooping out on us. In case you haven't read the beginnings of this thread there was question as to why people were even using standard camcorders anymore due to the functionality of alot of today's digital cameras. Thus, the bringing up of the DSC H20 who's price range is around $250-$275 as compared to the lowest quality camcorder i've seen at around the $400-500 range. You should check out the entire thread before throwing out accusations as to what and what not to speak about in a thread you haven't payed attention to in the first place.
no hard feelings from me, but don't get butt-hurt because of what i said. you brought up still images and a broken digital camera... and then refer to the DSC. It seems as though a digital camera with HD video is more of what you're looking for. what's wrong with that?

and while i check out the entire thread all over again, why don't you re-read the OP to understand why i said we should stick to a camcorder vs camcorder discussion. it's quite clear from your first post, and your comparison of the DSC-H20 vs the HF200 that you weren't looking for an actual camcorder-- which the OP was asking for in the first place... even mentioned in the title.

As far as saying the Sony can't compare in video quality due to being 720p vs 1080p I have to respectively disagree. I have both a 720p and 1080p hd television in my house and having them sit back side I can hardly notice any difference in picture quality. Now unless the difference is much more substantial in camcorder video footage (which I don't see why it would be) I wouldn't consider this a "major" difference like a 10 megapixels vs. 3 megapixels for still images.
If you can't tell the difference between 720p/30 from a Point & Shoot camera vs 1080i/60 or 1080p/24,30 from an HD camcorder, then cool! what do you want me to say? I shoot film for a living, and it does make a difference from my experiences. The hardware in digital cameras vs camcorders aren't the same. Did you know the DSC-H20 only captures mono-sound in video mode? Its highest quality only shoots 9Mbits/sec .mp4 files. Here are some comparisons. You can judge the quality for yourself. I was trying to be helpful from the beginning, but i guess you read it the wrong way. Nonetheless, i'll end my rants about the DSC.

Sony DSC-H20
Sample clip taken from photographyblog.com. 720p/30 at 9Mbits/sec. Approximately 23MB.
http://hotfile.com/dl/17748053/22dda55/sony_cybershot_dsc_h20_01.mp4.html
Alternative link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/307973161/sony_cybershot_dsc_h20_01.mp4

Canon HF100
Personal clip taken at Disneyland. 1080i/60 at 17Mbits/sec. Approximately 30MB.
http://hotfile.com/dl/17748527/c8ac35c/00000.MTS.html
Alternative link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/307973162/00000.MTS

I just want to know if the HV20 or the HF200 is the best camera to get for like $500...

I see the HV20 has 32gb built in storage, and the HF200 has just expandable storage. Any other reasons I would want one over the other?

They look to literally be identical camcorders.

I think this thread has gotten off topic as well....this is for consumers looking to purchase Camcorders that can record in 720p or 1080p. If you are looking for digital still cameras with the ability to record in 720p I think you should consider a BF Camera Deals thread.....

you mixed up the HV20 for the HF20. the HV20 is tape-based and shoots at 1440x1080. ;) And yes, the HF20 is the exact same model as the HF200, but has dual flash memory. 1x 32GB internal memory, 1x SDHC expansion slot

HF20 vs HF200....

Any differences besides storage? And given those options there.....any other cameras I should consider? Firewire is a lot faster I hear....

no hard feelings from me, but don't get butt-hurt because of what i said. you brought up still images and a broken digital camera... and then refer to the DSC. It seems as though a digital camera with HD video is more of what you're looking for. what's wrong with that?

and while i check out the entire thread all over again, why don't you re-read the OP to understand why i said we should stick to a camcorder vs camcorder discussion. it's quite clear from your first post, and your comparison of the DSC-H20 vs the HF200 that you weren't looking for an actual camcorder-- which the OP was asking for in the first place... even mentioned in the title.


If you can't tell the difference between 720p/30 from a Point & Shoot camera vs 1080i/60 or 1080p/24,30 from an HD camcorder, then cool! what do you want me to say? I shoot film for a living, and it does make a difference from my experiences. The hardware in digital cameras vs camcorders aren't the same. Did you know the DSC-H20 only captures mono-sound in video mode? Its highest quality only shoots 9Mbits/sec .mp4 files. Here are some comparisons. You can judge the quality for yourself. I was trying to be helpful from the beginning, but i guess you read it the wrong way. Nonetheless, i'll end my rants about the DSC.

Sony DSC-H20
Sample clip taken from photographyblog.com. 720p/30 at 9Mbits/sec. Approximately 23MB.
http://hotfile.com/dl/17748053/22dda55/sony_cybershot_dsc_h20_01.mp4.html
Alternative link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/307973161/sony_cybershot_dsc_h20_01.mp4

Canon HF100
Personal clip taken at Disneyland. 1080i/60 at 17Mbits/sec. Approximately 30MB.
http://hotfile.com/dl/17748527/c8ac35c/00000.MTS.html
Alternative link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/307973162/00000.MTS

I didn't take anything the wrong way. Just dont act like a thread nazi and tell people what to talk about when I wasn't even the one to bring up the Sony H20 in the first place, stevenq was...I was just inquiring the differences between that and a camcorder to see which would be better for me. The only one that seems to have gotten "butt hurt" was you. :shake:

The discussion about Digital Cameras vs Camcorders was discussed earlier, but it got dragged back out. Suggesting we get back on track apparently is a crime by your standards. If you have more to say or actually want some real help finding what fits you best, PM me--and without the attitude. I would be glad to help. :)

Anyway, this isn't a BF deal, but someone posted over in the Hot Deals area some nice deals on the HF S100/10. $786 for the s100, $879 for the s10. The catch-- you have to be a Continental Airlines Onepass member and have at least 100 miles. http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1647120 I'm not sure if this deal is still going either-- i'm not a member and don't want to be.

HF20 vs HF200....

Any differences besides storage? And given those options there.....any other cameras I should consider? Firewire is a lot faster I hear....
Storage is the only difference.

What are you trying to say about firewire? Camcorder-to-PC transfer speeds? Flash card-to-PC transfer speeds?

You should really consider the HF100. Check out the sample clip i uploaded.
Canon HF100
Personal clip taken at Disneyland. 1080i/60 at 17Mbits/sec. Approximately 30MB.
http://hotfile.com/dl/17748527/c8ac35c/00000.MTS.html
Alternative link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/307973162/00000.MTS

The major differences between the HF1xx and the HF2xx are size (hf2xx are a bit smaller), storage (hf10 @16GB vs hf20 @32GB), sensor sizes (hf1xx @1/3.2" vs hf2xx @ 1/4"), processors (digic dv II vs digic dv III), and recording bitrates (hf1xx @17Mbps vs hf2xx @24Mbps).

You can also check out the Panasonic HDC-SD9, Sony HDR-CX100. Some JVC Everios aren't that bad either.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

newegg has the Canon HF200 for $500 on sale now.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

newegg has the Canon HF200 for $500 on sale now.

I wonder if Bing works on this......I hope $499 is the "status quo" for this camcorder by Black Friday heh.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

newegg has the Canon HF200 for $500 on sale now.

Damn, this is seriously tempting when you take the tax away from the Best Buy Doorbuster and it has free shipping. I could at least get a 16GB SDHC card for that price (of tax), and eventually the 32GB models will come down in the price. And I get to not wait out in the cold all night!

I thought Best Buy had the HF20 for sale.

Does anyone have any thoughts on lower end camcorders? "The Store Which Shall Not Be Named" has a samsung SC-MX20 which I am assuming is a superseded/discontinued model and this store bought the remaining stock by the truckload for sale on BF. They're selling it for 149.00 which looks like a pretty hot price for a pretty well reviewed camcorder.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

newegg has the Canon HF200 for $500 on sale now.

with a $500 budget, that seem like the best deal

or any other recommendation?

I wonder if Bing works on this......I hope $499 is the "status quo" for this camcorder by Black Friday heh.

It should I just used Bing with newegg for a purchase last week.

As I mentioned earlier I own the HF100 which is a model before this one. It is an amazing camera and takes beautiful video. $500 is a great deal for this camera and neweggs standard shipping is usually really fast.

Here is a link to my vimeo page...

http://vimeo.com/user508471/videos

I thought Best Buy had the HF20 for sale.Best Buy has the HF20 for their BF sale, but these guys are thinking to pick up the HF200 without the BF drama.
I wonder if Bing works on this......I hope $499 is the "status quo" for this camcorder by Black Friday heh.with the way Canon is pushing their HF line, it might drop a bit more! The HF21 was just released earlier this month, so maybe other retailers will have to lower their prices too, just to compete.

Does anyone have any thoughts on lower end camcorders? "The Store Which Shall Not Be Named" has a samsung SC-MX20 which I am assuming is a superseded/discontinued model and this store bought the remaining stock by the truckload for sale on BF. They're selling it for 149.00 which looks like a pretty hot price for a pretty well reviewed camcorder.
The MX20 is more of a YouTube friendly camcorder. Although it shoots in the H.264 codec, the quality of video is poor. It only has a 1/6" CCD sensor, and can only shoot up to 720x480 resolution. It's an okay deal for a SD camcorder, but I think you're better off grabbing a Flip Mino HD pocket camcorder for $10 more. Just my $0.02.

You should really consider the HF100. Check out the sample clip i uploaded.
.

You'll find many supporting opinions that the HF100 is superior to the newer HF200...BUT...
the HF100 is discontinued and essentially unavailable in NEW condition and you should be VERY suspicious if somebody is advertising as new. Lowest reputable new is Fry's @ $800 which doesnt make sense since another $50 or so will get you a HFS100.

You can get refurbs at $490 at B&H but thats tough to swallow when you could have bought it brand new for approx $450 last year and you can get the new HF200 at $500. Most agree that the HF100 is superior but refurb makes the deal extremely YMMV. The refurbs that are out there now are probably true repair issues versus early year refurbs when Average Joe's were returning HF100's because they didn't have CPU/editing power for AVCHD. The net is.....a HF100 is not a practical recommendation now.

================================================== ===========

Here is a very slick site to compare camcorder test images side-by-side.

http://camcorder-test.slashcam.co...r-EN.shtml

If you're in the $900 market, take a look at the panasonic TM300 (choose the HS300 at the site which is the HDD sister of the flash TM300 - same optics)

TM350 looks even nicer but you have to import it.

================================================== ===========

Let me tell you the general net consensus IF you're primary concerns are....
1) High quality true 1920x1080 quality
2) Have audio/video capabilities that will not bound you if you have aspirations of making exceptional home videos (i.e. proper sound recording options, manual video overrides)
3) Flash based so you can dump tape once and forever.

$500 = HF20/HF200 (HF100 if you're lucky and understand the true condition)

$800-$1000 = HFS10/HFS100 or TM300/TM350

Although it is discontinued and difficult to find brand new for a cost lower than the HF200, some SDers that I've spoken to outside this thread don't mind picking up a refurb or second-hand camera-- they've scoured Craigslist and even eBay. If it had to be brand new, then yes, I'd agree whole heartedly with what you said. I've bought second-hand cameras before and have never had any issues-- although I was fortunate to pick up my HF100 for $420 earlier this year.

Yeah the HF20 is going to force me in to buying a new laptop. Without it I will need to do all my editing on my desktop. And if I am on vacation a 250gb or 320gb laptop hard drive could fill up fast with AVCHD uncompressed.

My current notebook (HP DV1605) is adequate, but it overheats and turns off if I put both cores to real work. Aka anything cpu intensive.......so I wouldn't be able to compress video overnight while we sleep on vacation.


Someone should take it upon themselves to refurb HF100's on their own. Get to know the camera and the parts that need to be commonly replaced, and get OEM replacements if possible and charge like $529 for them....its an idea.

any comment/review on this camcorder (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DTXK8G/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p23_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0EGG4VPMXBKH9TPXKST8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)?

So which one is better? The HF20 or HF200?

And wont WM do a price match on the H20 that way you dont have to worry about waiting in line at BB?

So which one is better? The HF20 or HF200?

And wont WM do a price match on the H20 that way you dont have to worry about waiting in line at BB?

The only difference between HF20 and HF200 is that the HF20 has internal 32GB memory.

And I was actually thinking about this earlier. The problem I think is that some of these products (HF20 included) is apparently not sold in stores but through Walmart.com.

Hey all,

I'm looking for a cheaper HD camcorder, somewhere around $300; I don't want one of those terrible mino or flip camcorders, I want a handheld... don't care about stills, just want video that won't look bad on our 32" TV.

So far just looks like getting the Samsung HMX-H100 is the best bet I can see... just over $300 at a couple of sites now...

Where can I find good deal for Sony DSC H20 this Black Friday???

That HMX-H100 only does 720p or 1080i

need to see some video of it to see just how good it captures.

you guys can just buy any of the cameras now at bestbuy and get a price match saturday. was told by 3 best buy associates at 3 different stores that unless it's a doorbuster it can be price matched any time friday or saturday after noon friday (the space is intended between after and noon)

you guys can just buy any of the cameras now at bestbuy and get a price match saturday. was told by 3 best buy associates at 3 different stores that unless it's a doorbuster it can be price matched any time friday or saturday after noon friday (the space is intended between after and noon)
I thought the Canon HF20 was a doorbuster?

you guys can just buy any of the cameras now at bestbuy and get a price match saturday. was told by 3 best buy associates at 3 different stores that unless it's a doorbuster it can be price matched any time friday or saturday after noon friday (the space is intended between after and noon)
Hmm, not that I don't believe you but I guess I should call my local BB and ask myself to confirm. Thanks for the info!

From looking at this FAQ (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/null/pcmcat136300050023.c?id=pcmcat136300050023):
Doorbuster products are front-cover limited-quantity items on the Thanksgiving Day advertisement in your local newspaper. If you do not receive a copy of the advertisement, it can viewed in the Weekly Ad section of BestBuy.com.

you guys can just buy any of the cameras now at bestbuy and get a price match saturday. was told by 3 best buy associates at 3 different stores that unless it's a doorbuster it can be price matched any time friday or saturday after noon friday (the space is intended between after and noon)

This doesn't look good though:
http://www.forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Best-Buy-and-Geek-Squad-Policies/pricing-gaurantee/td-p/71021

they'll match it - if not threaten to return it and i'm sure they'll give in.

they'll match it - if not threaten to return it and i'm sure they'll give in.I dropped in to my local BB today. They had 4 in stock and are going to hold 3 of them for the sale. I wanted to buy one and PM on Friday but the mgr said it's not possible as it's considered a doorbuster deal and that I'd have to try my luck on Friday. I may try that and get the Costco deal for the HF200 deal if it doesn't work out as I'm headed overseas the following day.

EDIT: I stopped by another local store and the sales guy was very helpful. It seems that, at least at this BB, the HF20 will not be one of the items for which people receive a ticket. This means that other than wanting to be in line in time one won't need anything special to grab one of these. This particular BB will also have 4 of the HF20 available on a first come first served basis. Apparently these are being cleared out as apparently a lot of buyers have come back not realizing that AVCHD needed "special" software to edit the files.

My Canon SD970 camera can shoot in HD.

Its not the gooddest and not the baddest.

Is the JVC Everio 60GB hd camcorder at 1080 for $399 at HHgregg a good deal on BF?

I am thinking of getting the BB hd camcorder. I just want to bring it back to my country to shoot for my dad's 80th birthday.

Then I come back and sell it. Will I break even selling it?

BestBuy's HF20 is on sale online now. Add to cart for $499 price and it is a free shipping item.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Canon+-+VIXIA+3.0MP+High-Definition+Digital+Camcorder+with+2.7%22+Widescree n+LCD+Monitor+-+Black/9239512.p?id=1218065983946&skuId=9239512&st=HF20&cp=1&lp=1

How does the Panasonic HDC-SD10 compare against others in the $300 range?

All soul out online. Dang. What time should I get in line if I want to get that HF20? I think its not that hot as the laptop.

I keep learning new things.

So this HF20 record in raw and it need a special AVCHD software?

So a KLite Codec with Window Media Classic will not play this raw file?

greeeeeeaaaaaaaat

I noticed that bestbuy started the blackfriday sale of HF20 in early morning hours. The result? $499 HF20 is sold out!!!!

Thanks bestbuy; NOT

I think what you mean by raw format is that its uncompressed?

Then why cant you play right away on your computer with Klite codec using Window Media Classic player?

You need raw processing power and AVCHD software for what?

WOW Nestle, REPPED. I ordered mine last night after seeing your post! HF20 WOOT WOOT!!!

I just ordered the Samsung HMX-H100... it may not do 1080p, but I watched some sample vids taken with it I got off youtube HD on my 32" screen ,and the video quality was enough to make me happy...

And after CB and shipping it was about $320; much more affordable for me than $500 for the camera I really want!

But new question; how fast of SDHC card will I need to do 1080i/720p video without any hiccups?

BestBuy's HF20 is on sale online now. Add to cart for $499 price and it is a free shipping item.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Canon+-+VIXIA+3.0MP+High-Definition+Digital+Camcorder+with+2.7%22+Widescree n+LCD+Monitor+-+Black/9239512.p?id=1218065983946&skuId=9239512&st=HF20&cp=1&lp=1

Woo hoo HF20 for $499 order is in!! Ordered last night around 11pm, Nestle Repped!!

Here is a very slick site to compare camcorder test images side-by-side.

http://camcorder-test.slashcam.co...r-EN.shtml


TM350 looks even nicer but you have to import it.

Your link is garbled there...

I got my HF20. I waited in line at 11:30 PM at BB with 30 people ahead of me. Most are for notebook/netbook.

They didnt even have it on the shelf. I panic. Then they ask me to go to the front desk. They didnt take it out. They ask who wants it.

All these for about $75 savings?

I been playing with the HF20. I understand like in living room light or low light, it is grainy. I have on the highest setting, like AXP.

In bright light there is no problem.

I notice if I put in Cinema mode, the grainy goes away in low light.

Grainy from the noise.

OK, this is a budget HD camcorder.

Is there a good forum where HF20 owners hang out?

I been playing with the HF20. I understand like in living room light or low light, it is grainy. I have on the highest setting, like AXP.

In bright light there is no problem.

I notice if I put in Cinema mode, the grainy goes away in low light.

Grainy from the noise.

OK, this is a budget HD camcorder.

Is there a good forum where HF20 owners hang out?

Youtube "Canon HF20 Unboxing" "Canon HF20 Test" Should find some good info there.

Buy the HF20 or is a little over priced for what you get?

What you say SD?

Buy the HF20 or is a little over priced for what you get?

What you say SD?

The older models are better overall but the HF20 is still a good buy.

Older model no Digi3 and cant record in 24. Only in 17 mbps.

Older model no Digi3 and cant record in 24. Only in 17 mbps.

um no. Most (all?) of Canon's models from last year do 24mbit. As for Digi3, what are you really gaining? All it really adds is face recognition which is pretty much useless in most real world scenarios. For example .. t will only recognize human faces. Hats, sunglasses, tilted heads or even excessive beards will confuse it as will low contrast areas. The technology is still nowhere near being useful for video. It's mroe useful for still image portraits and such.

um no. Most (all?) of Canon's models from last year do 24mbit.

The HF10/HF100 models can only do 17mbps recording.

The HF10/HF100 models can only do 17mbps recording.

Yeah but that was 4 releases ago (April 2008). The models released in September 2008 and onwards offered 24mbps.

Yeah but that was 4 releases ago (April 2008). The models released in September 2008 and onwards offered 24mbps.

Where is the documentation to show that?

I'm looking at the primary source, Canon's specs on their web site. It clearly shows that the max recording limit is 17 mpbs:

Maximum recording time
16 GB Internal Flash Drive
LP (5 Mbps) 6 hours 5 min
SP (7 Mbps) 4 hours 45 min
XP+ (12 Mbps) 2 hours 50 min
FXP (17 Mbps) 2 hours 5 min -Allows 1920x1080 Full HD Recording
Greater Capacity is Possible by Adding an SDHC Memory Card.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=16186#ModelTechSpecsAct

Some people had said that you dont see any difference in 24 vs 17 mpbs recording.

I like my HF20 but in low light, its grainy. Yes you can get out of the A thing but still not as good.

I would have got the HFS10, but its bigger in size and cost more.