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Radeck
03-25-2010, 08:20 AM
heads up....Greece's economy in tatters with riots over cuts as the government can no longer afford the socialist unproductive state, and now Portugal downgraded to AA with a negative outlook....

both of these countries now will be paying more interest on their debt, and find it difficult to get new bonds sold without significant rate increases..

we are next if we don't get rid of the morons in DC spending us into oblivion...start finding other ways to hold your savings than in US cash...it will be only useful for wiping your butt, and even then too rough for even that use.

for all the Bush haters, at least he didn't at $2T in debt in 1 year as Obama has done, and is on course to add $10T (if not more) by the time he is out of office...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=azuaDHkQHKp8

Portugal’s Debt Rating Lowered by Fitch on Finances (Update3)

By Matthew Brown

March 24 (Bloomberg) -- Portugal’s credit grade was cut by Fitch Ratings for the first time, underscoring growing concern that Europe’s weakest economies will struggle to meet their debt commitments as finances deteriorate.

The rating was lowered one step to AA- with a “negative” outlook, Fitch said in a statement today, adding that further economic or fiscal underperformance this year or in 2011 may lead to another downgrade. The euro extended its decline, dropping against all but one of the 16 most-traded currencies. Portuguese stocks and bonds fell.

“A sizeable fiscal shock against a backdrop of relative macroeconomic and structural weaknesses has reduced Portugal’s creditworthiness,” Douglas Renwick, associate director at Fitch, wrote in the statement from London. “Although Portugal has not been disproportionately affected by the global downturn, prospects for economic recovery are weaker than 15 European Union peers, which will put pressure on its public finances over the medium term.”

The governments of Greece, Ireland, Italy and Spain are seeking to narrow budget deficits that have swollen as their economies have been battered by the recession. Portugal’s deficit is 9.3 percent of gross domestic product, more than triple the European Union’s 3 percent limit. Failure by the EU to agree on a mechanism to help countries shore up their finances has hurt the euro, putting it on course for its worst quarter against the dollar since 2008.

Bonds, Stocks

The currency weakened 1 percent to $1.3363 as of 3:01 p.m. in London, bringing its slide this quarter to 6.7 percent. Portuguese bonds fell, with the yield on the 10-year note rising 4 basis points to 4.32 percent. The nation’s PSI-20 Index of stocks dropped 1.1 percent.

Portugal’s GDP is “significantly below” what is typical for an AA country, Fitch said. “Evidence that Portugal is entering a sustained recovery and that budgetary targets are being met, along with further structural reforms to enhance the productivity and competitiveness of the economy, would ease downward pressure on the rating,” the company said.

Portugal is planning to cut its budget deficit to 8.3 percent of GDP this year. The government predicted economic growth in 2010 of 0.7 percent. It shrank 1 percent last year.

‘Anemic Growth’

“The issue for Portugal is that it faces a chronic lack of competitiveness that has delivered only anemic growth,” Harvinder Sian, a senior bond strategist at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc in London, said today in an e-mailed note. “Portugal will be rated A- within the next few years and ultimately below this to a BBB handle.”

Fitch’s downgrade puts it one step below the Aa2 rating assigned to it by Moody’s Investors Service and a level higher than the A+ rating at Standard & Poor’s. S&P was the last major rating company to downgrade Portugal, on Jan. 21, 2009.

The premium that investors demand to hold Portuguese 10- year government bonds over benchmark German securities of similar maturity widened 1 basis point to 125 basis points today. It averaged 31 basis points in the past 10 years.

The cost of protecting against losses on Portugal’s sovereign debt rose to the highest in almost a month, according to CMA DataVision prices for credit-default swaps. Five-year contracts insuring $10 million of bonds increased $6,000 a year to $140,000. Swaps rise as perceptions of credit quality worsen.

‘Slow Death’

The Portuguese and Greek economies may face a “slow death” as they dedicate a higher proportion of wealth to paying off debt and investors drive up government borrowing costs, Moody’s said on Jan. 13. While the two countries can still avoid such a scenario, their window of opportunity “will not be open indefinitely,” Moody’s said.

The Portuguese parliament will debate the government’s austerity plan tomorrow. Backing for cutting the deficit by 2013 is “crucial,” the Ministry of Finance said today in a statement.

“The Portuguese government reaffirms its strong commitment to fiscal consolidation and to improving competitiveness conditions, as reflected and detailed in the recently presented 2010-2013 Stability and Growth Program,” Portuguese Finance Minister Fernando Teixeira dos Santos said today in a separate statement.

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 08:45 AM
No doubt Government Sachs is making out like bandits on this...

Dr. J
03-25-2010, 08:47 AM
PIIGS keep going...... that will make Euros cheaper for my summer vacation!

Radeck
03-25-2010, 08:54 AM
No doubt Government Sachs is making out like bandits on this...

if they were smart enough to short Portugal's bonds, as I am sure they are, then yes they are...im sure they and others, including George Soros, have already shorted Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, and who knows how many others, in expectation of this.

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 09:20 AM
if they were smart enough to short Portugal's bonds, as I am sure they are, then yes they are...im sure they and others, including George Soros, have already shorted Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, and who knows how many others, in expectation of this.

Visiting the PIIGS as an American tourist might not be such a good idea. They do not fool around when it comes to unrest. Their problems will soon be ours.

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/greek-riots.jpg

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2007/Nov/Week4/1615751.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/RiotR2202_468x322.jpg

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00152/02-GENOA-AP_152542s.jpg

Radeck
03-25-2010, 09:27 AM
hopefully it wont be that bad...the Greece riots are organized by their unions, which wield much more power and proportional membership than unions do here in the USA...but you never know.

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 10:22 AM
hopefully it wont be that bad...the Greece riots are organized by their unions, which wield much more power and proportional membership than unions do here in the USA...but you never know.

I disagree Radeck. Regular people are fed up, I talk to family and friends in the PIIGS constantly, including many from Germany, France and England. They are much more in tune with happenings than we are and fully understand how farked the situation is. They know full well the US will not be able to bail them out.

My cousin is a VP for GS, he was based in London with his family for a number of years and recently transferred to Asia. I have one big-@ss Italian family and he avoids me like the plague at get-togethers (I make him nervous). Per my uncle, he wanted out of the Eurozone due to concerns for his family's safety.

rrc06
03-25-2010, 10:37 AM
Visiting the PIIGS as an American tourist might not be such a good idea. They do not fool around when it comes to unrest. Their problems will soon be ours.

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/greek-riots.jpg

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2007/Nov/Week4/1615751.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/RiotR2202_468x322.jpg

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00152/02-GENOA-AP_152542s.jpg

:iagree:

It's painful once the party is over. Just ask the Greeks

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 10:50 AM
Just ask the Greeks

I included pics from French, Italian and Spanish riots also :)

Candide
03-25-2010, 11:02 AM
I included pics from French, Italian and Spanish riots also :)
Where are the Irish riot photos? You can't have a PIIGS riot thread without Irish riots.

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 11:28 AM
Where are the Irish riot photos? You can't have a PIIGS riot thread without Irish riots.

Happy now? ;)

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/pages/2005/07/images/0912frontbelfast.jpg

Candide
03-25-2010, 11:29 AM
OK, we've now included everyone. We want an inclusive thread you know. ;)

cruizerfish
03-25-2010, 11:41 AM
We want an inclusive thread you know. ;)

The wiki for PIIGS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIIGS) will become F.V.C.K.I.N.G.A.P.I.I.G.S in due time... ;)

rrc06
01-05-2011, 07:56 AM
Portugal just sold six-month bonds with a yield of 3.7% They aren't going to be able to keep that up for long, not with that stagnant economy.

Portugal pays steep price to borrow (http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/05/portugal-pays-steep-price-to-borrow/)

How dire is Europe's debt problem?

It is so ugly that Portugal drew polite applause Wednesday for completing the euro zone's first sale of government debt in the New Year – even though it had to pay six times the going rate at this time last year.

"No panic is good news," explains Lena Komileva of Tullett Prebon in a note to clients.

Portugal sold 500 million euros ($662 million) of short-term bills. Bids rose 11% from the last auction in September, in a sign that bond buyers are still willing to buy the country's debt given the right price.

But what a price. The government had to pay almost 3.7% to sell the debt – up from 2% in September and more than 3 percentage points above the going rate a year ago.

"Not a great result, but better than expected," writes Komileva.

Still, she adds, the surge in the government's borrowing costs at the start of a year in which Portugal is expected to sell 20 billion euros of existing debt sets up "an unsustainable dynamic." No one can afford to pay 3.7% for six-month money for long, particularly when the economy is stagnant. Six-month U.S. Treasury bills yield 0.19%, by contrast.

The question for 2011 is how long it will be till those defaults will start rolling in.

zzyzzx
01-05-2011, 12:24 PM
I would not consider 3.7% interest rate on bonds steep. Personally I'd want at least 10%.

LivninSC
01-05-2011, 12:36 PM
In a time when the rates are basically 0.0%, 3.7% is kind of steep.