http://abcnews.go.com/Business/pensions-teachers-cops-obama-stimulus-public-sector-workers/story?id=11379944
Move over Wall Street traders -- seems there's a new vampire squid in town. Civil servants? Passage Tuesday of a controversial bill sending billions of dollars to states to shore up payrolls for public school teachers further stoked the debate over whether government employees, their unions and their benefits packages are bankrupting the country.

...

"As a society, we meant well but we overpromised," said Carol Kellerman, president of the Citizens Budget Commission, a New York City nonprofit group that seeks to curb wasteful spending of taxpayer dollars. "These benefits to civil servants are no longer sustainable."

From cash-strapped California, where the public school teachers have been hammered as the highest-paid in the country, to Connecticut, where an assistant police chief in New Haven recently made headlines for retiring at age 48 with a six-figure annual pension, public workers, fairly or not, are increasingly the target of public scrutiny and scorn.

"We're in a difficult economic situation right now where a lot of people in the private sector are losing their jobs and benefits," said Jon Shure, deputy director of the State Fiscal Project at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "Some political forces and commentators play off that fear and uncertainty to foster anger against those fortunate enough to still have economic security, saying, in effect, 'Look at these public sector workers leeching off your hard-earned dollars.'"

...

Civil Servant Benefits Blamed for Broke States

Shure, along with several advocates of public workers, pointed out several reasons why they say the growing negative perception surrounding public sector wages and benefits is unfounded:

Contrary to widely reported tales of outrageous pension abuse, the average annual pension collected by U.S. public servants is around $20,000, according to the CBPP and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

Only one-fourth of the money used to fund most civil service pension funds, including firefighters and police, comes from taxpayers; the rest come from employee contributions and investment returns.

While state pension deficits are said to be in aggregate in excess of $1 trillion, the figure becomes far less staggering when put in the context of when the benefits are slated, on average, to be paid out -- over three decades, said Steven Kreisberg, AFSCME's director of collective bargaining. "Taken over 30 years, it's 2 percent of state budgets," he said.

"Trust me, teachers are hardly retiring with golden parachutes and living out their years floating on yachts," said John Abraham, director of benefits for the American Federation of Teachers.

According to Abraham, the average public school teacher earns $50,000 and retires on an annual pension of around $29,000. Roughly two-thirds of that comes from teacher contributions and investment returns, with the rest coming from tax dollars, he estimated.

Meanwhile, some 25 percent of all public teachers aren't even eligible for Social Security because of opt-out provisions certain states agreed to in the 1980s.

...

Aid Could Restore Teaching Jobs

Lately, it seems Milwaukee teachers have generated far more headlines for demanding that their health care plan cover the cost of Viagra than for anything ever accomplished in the classroom.

Drawing further scrutiny, the Milwaukee teachers union was singled out in a Wall Street Journal editorial Wednesday lambasting the education stimulus. The Journal said the teachers union caused the layoffs by being unwilling to adjust their rich benefits.

"In Milwaukee, for example, nearly all of the ... teacher layoffs ... could have been avoided if the unions had agreed to change health plans that cost $23,000 per teacher per year" the Journal wrote. "They could have accepted a still-rich $17,000 plan. The unions chose the layoffs betting (correctly) that the Democrats in Washington would come to their rescue."

...

In reality, there are two plans offered, one of them indeed more expensive. Older, higher-earning Milwaukee teachers, which make up the bulk of the faculty, tend to choose a more-expensive plan, albeit one with a higher out-of-pocket deductible, while newer, younger, healthier and lower-earning teachers tend to select the less-expensive plan, which carries a lower out-of-pocket deductible.

So even if all teachers were shifted to the less expensive plan with the lower deductible, "it would quickly become more expensive on a per person basis, because the older teachers would require more coverage," Langyel said.

...

A School District Gets Creative

At least one public school district appears determined to keep its fiscal house in order without any stimulus and without attracting taxpayer ire.

Faced with a budget gap of $2.5 million earlier this year, the Portage Public School District in southwestern Michigan offered some 500 teachers the option of a voluntary early retirement, which 56 teachers accepted, while asking the remaining teachers to work one extra hour per day, covering more classes, said Tom Vance, a spokesman for the school district.

One year earlier, Portage teachers agreed to a 2 percent pay cut.

"We try not to rely on any miracles coming out of Washington," Vance said. "Things have been so tough here in Michigan for so long, we've learned to get by our own. We've learned to be creative."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

http://images.usatoday.com/news/graphics/2010/2010-08-10-fedpay/fedpay.jpg

It's more about this than teacher's salaries.

What the data show:

•Benefits. Federal workers received average benefits worth $41,791 in 2009. Most of this was the government's contribution to pensions. Employees contributed an additional $10,569.

•Pay. The average federal salary has grown 33% faster than inflation since 2000. USA TODAY reported in March that the federal government pays an average of 20% more than private firms for comparable occupations. The analysis did not consider differences in experience and education.

•Total compensation. Federal compensation has grown 36.9% since 2000 after adjusting for inflation, compared with 8.8% for private workers.

"Meanwhile, some 25 percent of all public teachers aren't even eligible for Social Security because of opt-out provisions certain states agreed to in the 1980s. "

As someone who knows a bunch of teachers I have to say that this right here is complete and utter BS. You work for a # of years and pay in to SS for more than 40 quarters but you don't get to collect SS like the rest of us. Well, technically you can but they reduce your pension payment by that amount so in reality you don't get it. Meanwhile a ton of other public employees are receiving both a pension and SS and those lucky enough in private to get a pension also get SS.

I don't doubt that it's not a bad gig working for the federal gov't right now but those charts that make it look like they all make 2x as much as the rest of us are pretty damn misleading. I wonder if those serving in the armed services are included because we all know they make jack shit and would probably hugely bring the #'s down s they are probably excluded in these compensation comparisons...

Farking hilarious how biased the OP chose to edited the article... into a teacher bashing thread

Here is the EXACT jobs noted by Abcnews : Teachers, Cops and Firefighters Confront Growing Backlash Over Benefits

Obviously the OP got no problem with COPS and Firefighter sucking up benefits... but ooh teachers LET GET THEM !!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/pensions-teachers-cops-obama-stimulus-public-sector-workers/story?id=11379944

Here's more of the abc coverage this OP decided to edited to suit his/her complaint
Move over Wall Street traders -- seems there's a new vampire squid in town. Civil servants?
Photo: Civil Servants Find Themselves Cast in Unlikely Role ? Fat Cats: From Working Class Heroes to Drain on Society, Teachers, Cops and Firefighters Face Growing Backlash over Benefits

Teachers and students outside of Oakland High School in Oakland, Calif., hold signs as they protest during a one-day strike in April 2010 over a new contract leaving them without a pay raise. Passage Tuesday of a controversial bill sending billions of dollars to states to shore up pay for public school teachers further stoked the debate over whether public employees, their unions and their benefits packages are bankrupting the country.

Passage Tuesday of a controversial bill sending billions of dollars to states to shore up payrolls for public school teachers further stoked the debate over whether government employees, their unions and their benefits packages are bankrupting the country.

"[The bill] will make the teachers unions happy, but it won't make teaching in schools better," said Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., at a press conference Tuesday during which he and other Republican leaders criticized legislation earmarking $26 billion in aid for school districts and other state agencies.

As the recession grinds on and states struggle to close budget gaps, a spotlight is shining on the salary and benefits collected by public sector professionals, including teachers, police officers and firefighters. They once commonly were viewed as the salt-of-the-earth backbone of America. But now, they are more often than not being portrayed as a boilerplate around taxpayers' necks.

So why is he/she just singling out teachers???????

"Meanwhile, some 25 percent of all public teachers aren't even eligible for Social Security because of opt-out provisions certain states agreed to in the 1980s. "

As someone who knows a bunch of teachers I have to say that this right here is complete and utter BS. You work for a # of years and pay in to SS for more than 40 quarters but you don't get to collect SS like the rest of us. Well, technically you can but they reduce your pension payment by that amount so in reality you don't get it. Meanwhile a ton of other public employees are receiving both a pension and SS and those lucky enough in private to get a pension also get SS.

I don't doubt that it's not a bad gig working for the federal gov't right now but those charts that make it look like they all make 2x as much as the rest of us are pretty damn misleading. I wonder if those serving in the armed services are included because we all know they make jack shit and would probably hugely bring the #'s down s they are probably excluded in these compensation comparisons...

I guess this guy got no problem when its COPS who are abusing the system...

Typical ;)

But when it comes to teacher bashing...... count on it

I guess this guy got no problem when its COPS who are abusing the system...

Typical ;)

But when it comes to teacher bashing...... count on it

What on earth are you babbling about?

Teachers are mentioned because they got a bailout from the Democrats.

I don't even need to take Ryu-bom off my ignore list to know he made a post that made absolutely no sense. Do they ever?

How are teachers abusing the system or how was I bashing teachers? And oh, I don't even need to see your reply yet again to know that you're talking out of your ass.

They really need to make a talking out of your ass smiley...

We hear all the headlines, but this is what you really need to know....

Contrary to widely reported tales of outrageous pension abuse, the average annual pension collected by U.S. public servants is around $20,000, according to the CBPP and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

What on earth are you babbling about?

Teachers are mentioned because they got a bailout from the Democrats.

Obviously you didn't read the article posted on Abcnews but instead read the edited teacher union bashing that this OP decided to edit in his/her favor

The Abcnews article refers to TEACHERS, COPS and FIREFIGHTERS who all recieved a nice bailout...

But then the OP decided to ignore the cops and firefighter and choose to single out the teachers for bashing...

comprende......

As someone who knows a bunch of teachers I have to say that this right here is complete and utter BS. You work for a # of years and pay in to SS for more than 40 quarters but you don't get to collect SS like the rest of us. Well, technically you can but they reduce your pension payment by that amount so in reality you don't get it. Meanwhile a ton of other public employees are receiving both a pension and SS and those lucky enough in private to get a pension also get SS.

I don't doubt that it's not a bad gig working for the federal gov't right now but those charts that make it look like they all make 2x as much as the rest of us are pretty damn misleading. I wonder if those serving in the armed services are included because we all know they make jack shit and would probably hugely bring the #'s down s they are probably excluded in these compensation comparisons...

If they opted out, they do not pay Social Security taxes, only Medicare. If they worked multiple jobs, one that was in SS and they worked enough to qualify and one job in a opted out system, they fall under the same income guidelines as everyone else for how much they can earn before affecting SS benefits.

If they truly retire with both a pension from a state system and social security, they can collect the full amount from both (meaning whatever amount they were eligible for from SS based on age) regardless of how much the pension is.

It would be interesting to see if the military was included, and if so, how they figured their total salaries. I do not think it would effect it as much as many think. If you include pay, housing allowances, food allowances or meals provided, cost of health insurance for the soldier and family etc etc... even an E-1 has the potential to break the 40k mark. It would depend on how they value the free housing or BAQ in lieu of housing, and how they account for a single soldier versus a married soldier with 4 or 5 kids all receiving free health and dental care. Since the bulk of the military is going to fall in the E-1 to E-4 category, it would seem to drag down the average, I am just not sure by how much.

comprende......

I'm sorry.. I'm not fluent in Spanish....

What on earth are you babbling about?

Teachers are mentioned because they got a bailout from the Democrats.

You see, I never know what he's babbling about either.

It's quite apparent which party he votes for in elections. So, I find it a bit odd that every time the dems want to pass some new huge spending bill with borrowed money, which two groups do they claim it's for...? Teachers and police-men.

For real, if democrats ran the Titanic back in the day, they'd be saving NOT the women and children, but the teachers and policemen on-board.

Very odd for the guy whom is arguably the most anti-cop on the board.

does the article mention at what age they can retire? Locally, the firefighters get to retire with 80% pension after 20 years. seems a bit much to me.

Obviously you didn't read the article posted on Abcnews but instead read the edited teacher union bashing that this OP decided to edit in his/her favor

The Abcnews article refers to TEACHERS, COPS and FIREFIGHTERS who all recieved a nice bailout...

But then the OP decided to ignore the cops and firefighter and choose to single out the teachers for bashing...

comprende......

Per podium rules we cannot post entire articles champ.

This particular bailout is limited to education spending. No cops and firefighters.

Cops of course will get their own. OBAMA will make it happen since he wants their votes.

You see, I never know what he's babbling about either.
.

That's what I find amusing about the guy.

Other liberals might be water carriers for the administration, but at least they have consistent beliefs in that regard.

Mr. Ryu-born apparently hates the administration's policy and the administration's core constituencies but parrots them anyway. It's actually impossible to figure out what he believes, other than cops are bad.

Look at any business and salaries are always the biggest expense. With wages like those then it makes sense that all the states are going bankrupt. They need to bring those wages down to a fair market value.

comprende......

Comprende is the third person present and affirmative imperative form of comprender. It bugs me that many American phrase it as a question when the second person present is comprendes.

- ¡Comprende! can mean either, "Understand!" as a command or, "[He, she, or it] understands," as a declarative statement. It is not a second person form of the verb.
- ¿Comprendes? means, "Do you understand?" It is the correct form to use when asking someone if he or she understands something.

If they opted out, they do not pay Social Security taxes, only Medicare. If they worked multiple jobs, one that was in SS and they worked enough to qualify and one job in a opted out system, they fall under the same income guidelines as everyone else for how much they can earn before affecting SS benefits.

If they truly retire with both a pension from a state system and social security, they can collect the full amount from both (meaning whatever amount they were eligible for from SS based on age) regardless of how much the pension is.

Actually you are wrong, but it happens to me sometimes as well so it's all good :D

I agree that they don't pay SS on their teaching earnings AND that if they didn't meet the 40 quarters through another job shouldn't be able to collect SS (as they didn't pay in to it enough) however for those that did in the affected statest when they meet the criteria not being able to collect what everyone else can is ridiculous.

Just do a quick Google search...

http://www.calrta.org/NewsEvents.php?id=26&cat_id=7

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Ripoff-Social-Security-and-California-Teachers.html

Up until 1983, retired teachers in California could collect a state pension and the Social Security benefits earned from outside work. But then Congress voted to veto this so-called "double dipping." Teachers in 14 states –including California—who had opted for state pensions were denied Social Security benefits even if they’d paid into the fund while working in non-teacher jobs.
"Anyone that’s worked before retirement and then becomes a teacher, " Sobel said, " they lose all those benefits."

In every state there are other groups of civil servants such as police officers and firefighters who are similarly handicapped. They can collect state retirement benefits, but not Social Security earned in private employment.

Actually you are wrong, but it happens to me sometimes as well so it's all good :D

I agree that they don't pay SS on their teaching earnings AND that if they didn't meet the 40 quarters through another job shouldn't be able to collect SS (as they didn't pay in to it enough) however for those that did in the affected statest when they meet the criteria not being able to collect what everyone else can is ridiculous.

Just do a quick Google search...

http://www.calrta.org/NewsEvents.php?id=26&cat_id=7

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Ripoff-Social-Security-and-California-Teachers.html

Up until 1983, retired teachers in California could collect a state pension and the Social Security benefits earned from outside work. But then Congress voted to veto this so-called "double dipping." Teachers in 14 states –including California—who had opted for state pensions were denied Social Security benefits even if they’d paid into the fund while working in non-teacher jobs.
"Anyone that’s worked before retirement and then becomes a teacher, " Sobel said, " they lose all those benefits."

In every state there are other groups of civil servants such as police officers and firefighters who are similarly handicapped. They can collect state retirement benefits, but not Social Security earned in private employment.


My wife falls into this in CA. Prior to becoming a teacher she met her 40 quarters worth of contributions into SS; Because of the Windfall Pension Act, she will not see one dime from SS, the gov't effectively stole all of her money. My SS, which I've been maxed out on for years, will be reduced (to almost 0) because of her pension.

You should see how pissed she gets when she receives her yearly SS statement; showing her estimated monthly benefits; which of course she won't get.

My wife falls into this in CA. Prior to becoming a teacher she met her 40 quarters worth of contributions into SS; Because of the Windfall Pension Act, she will not see one dime from SS, the gov't effectively stole all of her money. My SS, which I've been maxed out on for years, will be reduced (to almost 0) because of her pension.

You should see how pissed she gets when she receives her yearly SS statement; showing her estimated monthly benefits; which of course she won't get.

While I might agree that your wife should be "reimbursed' or something for the actual dollars paid into the system, I can't feel sorry that your wife can't be paid by me twice (basically once through state taxes and once through federal taxes).

I can't feel sorry that your wife can't be paid by me twice (basically once through state taxes and once through federal taxes).

??? My wife paid into SS for years when she worked at private companies, just like most people do.

Up until 1983, retired teachers in California could collect a state pension and the Social Security benefits earned from outside work. But then Congress voted to veto this so-called "double dipping." Teachers in 14 states –including California—who had opted for state pensions were denied Social Security benefits even if they’d paid into the fund while working in non-teacher jobs.
"Anyone that’s worked before retirement and then becomes a teacher, " Sobel said, " they lose all those benefits."

In every state there are other groups of civil servants such as police officers and firefighters who are similarly handicapped. They can collect state retirement benefits, but not Social Security earned in private employment.

Wow did not know that. My mother collects both, one SS from when she worked for GM and another from Oklahoma's Turnpike Authority. Wonder what the difference is.

??? My wife paid into SS for years when she worked at private companies, just like most people do.

And I said I might agree that she should get back on a dollar for dollar basis what she contributed; but to allow her to in essence fully vest in two separate unsustainable schemes isn't realistic or right by taxpayers.

Farking hilarious how biased the OP chose to edited the article... into a teacher bashing thread

Here is the EXACT jobs noted by Abcnews : Teachers, Cops and Firefighters Confront Growing Backlash Over Benefits

Obviously the OP got no problem with COPS and Firefighter sucking up benefits... but ooh teachers LET GET THEM !!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/pensions-teachers-cops-obama-stimulus-public-sector-workers/story?id=11379944

Here's more of the abc coverage this OP decided to edited to suit his/her complaint


So why is he/she just singling out teachers???????
Did you even bother to read what I clipped? :confused: I posted both sides of the teacher's argument

Here are their defense.
Shure, along with several advocates of public workers, pointed out several reasons why they say the growing negative perception surrounding public sector wages and benefits is unfounded:

etc..

So even if all teachers were shifted to the less expensive plan with the lower deductible, "it would quickly become more expensive on a per person basis, because the older teachers would require more coverage," Langyel said.


Here is about police (since you are being so picky and anti-cops)
Connecticut, where an assistant police chief in New Haven recently made headlines for retiring at age 48 with a six-figure annual pension, public workers, fairly or not, are increasingly the target of public scrutiny and scorn.

Last time I check Civil Servant includes cops and firefighter. And had you bother to read the entire article you would have realize the article didn't talk in great detail about firefighter and cops(From second half of 2nd page all the way to 4th page it's all about teacher).

You find me specific example, about how each state is dealing with cops' and firefighters' benefits, within that article... I will gladly repost it.

And I said I might agree that she should get back on a dollar for dollar basis what she contributed; but to allow her to in essence fully vest in two separate unsustainable schemes isn't realistic or right by taxpayers.

Is it unsustainable because of something she did? She worked two jobs, she paid her share. Why is it her fault the state failed to pay their share while the fed robbed peter to pay paul.

At a minimum she should get back everything she paid plus interest mius the taxes.

Your basically saying your not entitled to the benefits you were entitled to because the politicians are bankrupting the plan. That does not seem right to me.

If you're talking formally, and using the Usted form, comprende? is also correct.

Who does that? Seriously... ;)

Is it unsustainable because of something she did? She worked two jobs, she paid her share. Why is it her fault the state failed to pay their share while the fed robbed peter to pay paul.

At a minimum she should get back everything she paid plus interest mius the taxes.

Your basically saying your not entitled to the benefits you were entitled to because the politicians are bankrupting the plan. That does not seem right to me.

There are a number of facts we don't have here that would sway me perhaps let her have what she paid in plus nominal interest (how long at the first job - e.g. did she pay in for just enough time to qualify for benefits or did she pay in for many years; how much of the teacher pension she is funding vs. taxpayer funding, etc.).

We allowed our grandparents, parents, ourselves, unions, dirty politicians to put us on an unsustainable paths. There will be difficult decisions ahead and not everyone will be made whole. Fairness will likely have to viewed as an overall issue (for all americans) rather than on individual bases. I understand that even though I max out social security taxes every yeurlhasbeenblocked the government at some point to extremely limit the amount of social security available to people with net worth in excess of $XXX(?), of which I will likely be a part. I don't like paying into it any more than anyone else and I realize I am likely to get little if anything in return.

A lot of things that transpired over the past seventy years and in the next thirty years will be far from fair.

Wow did not know that. My mother collects both, one SS from when she worked for GM and another from Oklahoma's Turnpike Authority. Wonder what the difference is.

Probably the state. Only about 1/3 of the states have this "double dipping" exclusion. What I don't know though is whether it matters where you earned your 40 SS quarters, your teaching pension, or where you are currently residing.

There are a number of facts we don't have here that would sway me perhaps let her have what she paid in plus nominal interest (how long at the first job - e.g. did she pay in for just enough time to qualify for benefits or did she pay in for many years; how much of the teacher pension she is funding vs. taxpayer funding, etc.).

We allowed our grandparents, parents, ourselves, unions, dirty politicians to put us on an unsustainable paths. There will be difficult decisions ahead and not everyone will be made whole. Fairness will likely have to viewed as an overall issue (for all americans) rather than on individual bases. I understand that even though I max out social security taxes every yeurlhasbeenblocked the government at some point to extremely limit the amount of social security available to people with net worth in excess of $XXX(?), of which I will likely be a part. I don't like paying into it any more than anyone else and I realize I am likely to get little if anything in return.

A lot of things that transpired over the past seventy years and in the next thirty years will be far from fair.

Here's the thing. Federal employees that fall under the same bucket are fine (or atleast the ones I know). An old guy I know has been collecting a pension and SS for quite a while. There are people out there collecting more from SS than they ever put in to it.

If you set up the rules a certain way I don't see how people should be punished. What if I worked for a private company and received a pension (which I actually did but it amounted to nothing so I cashed it out) and received SS as well. How is any of that fair?

I'm sorry but if you meet the minimum requirements for eligibility you should be able to collect the benefits but sadly these people won't as Congress has F'ed them over.

Just wait until Congress says that if you have a 401(k) that you won't be able to collect SS. I wonder how many will be singing the same tune. People do realize that teachers, fire fighters, and cops put $$ out of their own paycheck in to these retirement programs right?

I'm personally not affected, nor are any of my family members or close friends. I just think it's wrong to promise someone something and then completely do away with it because of the profession they chose and a back door deal Congress and their state made. What's even sadder is that this is hardly ever mentioned to teachers before they get in to the profession so it's a complete surprise once they realize they're getting screwed over.

Posters are mixing up/combining/confusing the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) and the Government Pension Offset Provision (GPO)

What is the difference between the WEP and GPO?These two provisions affect people with pensions from noncovered employment. The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) affects the computation of benefits for retired and disabled workers. The Government Pension Offset Provision(GPO) affects benefits for individuals receiving spouse's or surviving spouse's benefits:

• The WEP provides that a modified benefit formula is used to figure the amount of a retired or disabled worker's own benefit and the benefits of the worker's family if the worker also receives a pension based in whole, or in part, on his or her own earnings based on noncovered employment. While benefits are lower using the modified WEP formula, they are never totally eliminated. For more information, see our Online WEP Calculator.

•The GPO provides that a person's Social Security benefits as a spouse or surviving spouse is reduced by two-thirds the amount of any government pension the person receives based on his or her own work in Federal, State or local government employment not covered by Social Security. This offset is similar to the dual entitlement offset that applies to the spouse's or surviving spouse's benefits paid to individuals who work in employment covered by Social Security. Under the GPO, it is possible for the spouse's or surviving spouse's benefit to be totally eliminated.

• The WEP provides that a modified benefit formula is used to figure the amount of a retired or disabled worker's own benefit and the benefits of the worker's family if the worker also receives a pension based in whole, or in part, on his or her own earnings based on noncovered employment. While benefits are lower using the modified WEP formula, they are never totally eliminated. For more information, see our Online WEP Calculator.

•The GPO provides that a person's Social Security benefits as a spouse or surviving spouse is reduced by two-thirds the amount of any government pension the person receives based on his or her own work in Federal, State or local government employment not covered by Social Security. This offset is similar to the dual entitlement offset that applies to the spouse's or surviving spouse's benefits paid to individuals who work in employment covered by Social Security. Under the GPO, it is possible for the spouse's or surviving spouse's benefit to be totally eliminated.

My wife gets hit by WEP, (last we looked, she will receive 0 from SS) and,

I, her spouse, get my SS greatly reduced by the GPO..

Double screw job, our money contributed to SS is being blatently stolen from us.

My wife gets hit by WEP, (last we looked, she will receive 0 from SS) and,

I, her spouse, get my SS greatly reduced by the GPO..

Double screw job, our money contributed to SS is being blatently stolen from us.

How is your SS greatly reduced by GPO? GPO applies to benefits received as a spouse not on your own work. Why won't you get your full Social Security benefits on your work?

We hear all the headlines, but this is what you really need to know....

No, what we really need to know is when they start collecting that. In many cases, that starts at age 55 ;)

According to Abraham, the average public school teacher earns $50,000 and retires on an annual pension of around $29,000. Roughly two-thirds of that comes from teacher contributions and investment returns, with the rest coming from tax dollars, he estimated.

Techically speaking, doesn't all the pension come from tax dollars? I mean teachers contributions are from revenue they earn that's funded by tax dollars, right?

Double screw job, our money contributed to SS is being blatently stolen from us.

It's not your money. See the Supreme Court's decision in Flemming v. Nestor.

It's not your money. See the Supreme Court's decision in Flemming v. Nestor.

I think that was their point..... it was their money......

We hear all the headlines, but this is what you really need to know....
Contrary to widely reported tales of outrageous pension abuse, the average annual pension collected by U.S. public servants is around $20,000, according to the CBPP and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

The "average" public servant pension collected, covers an awful lot of pensioners, and doesn't take into account the exponential growth in those pensions in just the last few years.

But it's a great attempt at spin by the unions......

I have a lot of friends retiring from government service right now. Very few of them are punching out at less than 60K a year, (plus insurance benefits, cost of living increases, etc.), and quite a few of them are going out at far more. Those that live to the average life span, will be paid more in total during their retirement, then they earned during their entire working career.

That is unsustainable.