Alright, so there are always alot of questions in the wild world of audio on the hot deal board. I invite people to ask questions and invite others with experience like StickyCash or tpurvin to answer questions regarding anything with audio, stereo or home theater, here in this thread!

Speakers, receivers, amps, processors, and everything in between. Especially speakers!

Fire away with all questions audio! And for fun, introduce yourself and post your systems here as well, for those who have gear to show off :)

EDIT:

Recommending this Wiki gets updated to info relevant in 2011, as it was last updated on 2009-11-09. Several of the links are now broken and aren't helpful. Would also like to see updates providing suggested setups based on price vs features.

---------------------------------------------

Pros/Cons Micro footprint lifestyle Satellite systems
These include vast majority of computer and htib sets. All satellite/micro footprint systems are lifestyle systems. They are created to be small and unintrusive. They are not designed with sound quality as their first goal but rather design and aesthetic requirements.

Generally, satellite systems are inferior to their bookshelf and floorstanding counterparts with the same price point and class. The small drivers and small enclosures make it difficult to drive midrange and bass to a decent volume without a large x-max (x-max is the TS parameter for maximum excursion before distorting). The larger the cone surface area, the less a driver has to travel to create lower frequencies. Since satellite systems are generally small woofers, about 3" on average, the amount of "work" they must do to rival a typical 5.25" or 6.5" bookshelf (or tower) speaker is much greater.

Higher quality satellite systems use better quality woofers, passive radiators, transmission lines and other "tricks" to assist in this deficiency. Some of the pricier ones are very decent. However, for a comparable price bookshelf, the bookshelf will always be significantly better.

Since there is a deficiency in the midrange/bass compared to larger speakers, a subwoofer has to crossover at a higher frequency A 100hz, 120hz, or more often 200hz crossover point are seen on these systems. When a subwoofer is forced to work up at these higher ranges, it starts to become directional. (sound frequencies below this are not traceable to locations, that's why subs can be placed in corner of room). Also, since these need to play well at the higher frequency ranges and consequently don't do nearly as well down low where a sub should be.

If performance is your goal, you may want to look elsewhere.

Specs of Tower vs Bookshelf vs semi micro footprint.
Polk monitor 30 bookshelves. $90/pair 55Hz - 25kHz
Polk monitor 50 tower speakers $90/each 42Hz - 25kHz
polk rti8 tower speakers $150/each 30Hz-27kHz (40hz-26khz -3db)
Sunfire CRM-2 (semi micro footprint 8.25" tall) $800/each 95hz-40khz http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm. Possibly the best performing satellite out there, though quite large and bordering on a bookshelf size. Keep in mind, many towers systems can outperform these as you are buying for the engineering needed to make a small speaker sound big.

I just got a TV or own a TV and now want a home theater system. What should I buy?

used components
Used components, like used anything are a great way to buy something you can't afford. Both Ebay and craigslist are excellent for this. For audio gear, its hard to be audiogon for high end classifieds. On audiogon you can find anything from $200 Paradigm bookshelves to $2000 Thiels to $150,000 Wilson Audios to $250,000 Magicos. Of course, you should know what you are doing before buying used!

Luckily, speakers are relatively simple electronics and will hold up barring abuse. If they sound right, they are probably not broken. Things to look for are damaged drivers and cabinets, Torn cones. With damaged drivers, you could hear distortion, lack of sound in some range, or just general "not right" sounding. In most cases you should stay within last 10 years.

Next up are a comparison of various components you can buy at various prices. Keep in mind, if you go use you can discount yourself up to another 30-50%, sometimes even higher with older gear, off the price suggestions.

computer multimedia systems
Easily the cheapest way to go is to buy a 5.1 computer setup. They offer bad sound at low, low prices. You can pick up a set for under $100 if you monitor slickdeals for various sets from Creative, Logitech, Altec and all the usual suspects. The better featured ones offer digital input (SPDIF).
For data on their negatives, read the two links under the first section.

Home theater in a box (HTIB)
They are a full system out of the box. You can get a cheapy set for even $100 and they can go all the way up to thousands of dollars. Recommended for HTIB are sets from $150 to $600. Below that number are better computer speakers and above that are separate components (see below). These are complete sets that include a receiver, speakers, subwoofer, and sometimes a DVD player. These are the set you see in the Big Box stores like Best Buy, Walmart, or Costco. Most of the big name electronics companies make these from Panasonic to Sony. From a performance point of view, HTIB are not good.
For data on their negatives, read the two links under the first section.

Avoid the (infamous) HTIB system, the Bose Acoustimass/Lifestyle systems.
They are terrible on the price/performance curve. Other micro footprint speakers offer better sound for much less.

Onkyo are respected for good performance/price in the micro footprint categories offering bookshelves with a decent size sub and a receiver.

Speaker sets + separate receiver
A variation of HTIB. These sets usually come with Five satellite speakers and a subwoofer. Think HTIB minus a receiver. They usually come with micro footprint speakers

Then you need the speaker set which show up on slickdeals all the time as well. Nearly all the big name speaker companies have a set like this including the hifi and up brands. Everyone from Polk, JBL, Paradigm, Kef, various only brands, have something in this category.

The problem with satellite sets are for a large room, they tend to not perform well. (see below under satellite systems) This leads to the next tier.

separate components: receiver + speakers + subwoofer
The best way to get to most performance is to buy everything separately. Once you hit about the $400 mark, this is the way to go. Thanks to slickdeals various sales on tower speakers from Polk, JBL, and some others you can purchase a complete set for about $400 and get performance orders of magnitude above the HTIB above. Of course this maybe even better a deal if you go used and used mid-fi and up speakers show up quite often used. The ratio of 70/30 still stands for a speaker and receiver but if you throw a sub into the mix, the ratio should change to about 50% speakers, 20% subwoofer, 30% receiver. This isn't a hard set ratio and you can fudge as you see fit.

Here you can pick your size as well. You can go with large efficient towers or a high quality bookshelf with stand or on AV furniture (e.g., tv stand)

Center Channel
The center channels for most of these lines are almost never on sale. For a center channel, you should ALWAYS buy from the same line as the other front speakers. So if you bought a pair of Polk Monitors, you should buy the Polk Monitor center channel. More info of importance matching here. post (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15953219&postcount=249)

Another option is to just use a 3rd tower/bookshelf as your center.
Audioholics ran thorough and comprehensive tests, the best center channel speaker is vast majority of cases a 3rd tower speaker/bookshelf. It is also usually a lot cheaper than a speaker specified as "center channel". It also has perfect pitch match. Vertically orientated center tower is best if you can (like your LR channels), however turning it horizontal is still better than "center specific" speakers.
can't find original article, but here is an offshoot discussion of it.
link (http://forums.audioholics.com/for...hp?t=33771)

10-30% of your money to the receiver and 70-90% to the speakers. There are various receivers that show up on slickdeals all the time. Right now, a recommended component is the Onkyo 606 which has full features and a low price with sales all the time. Speakers have much better bang/buck sound quality increase.
more info here post1 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15325455&postcount=225)

HDMI capabilities in receivers
There are 2 issues with all HDMI receivers.
1) Ability to play HDMI (HD) audio. Both Dolby and DTS developed high res formats for use with hi def formats like Bluray. Dolby's is called TrueHD and I believe DTS is called HD-DTS.
2) Video upscaling. This is the ability of a receiver to turn an old school analog format (svideo, component) into a hidef format through HDMI AND "up" its resolution using a video processing engine.

However, some receivers can do Number 1 listed above. It does a SIMPLER version of upscaling called "upconverting". That is, it will pass the old school analog video format and push it through the HDMI into your TV. Higher priced receivers will net you an upscaling chip from companies like Reon or Genesis.

So, what is the difference you ask between upscaling and upconverting?

On the "upconvert" only receivers, Once that HDMI signal reaches the TV, the TV has to upscale the picture itself! In other words, if your TV already has a good upscaling chip, you really DONT NEED the abilities of the higher priced receivers video capabilities. These upscaling chips are powerful processing engines, you'll recognize their names when you shop for TVs. They'll list brands like Genesis, Farjouda, Reon, Silicon Image etc. A receiver like an Onkyo 875/6 buys you an upscaling chip by Reon for instance.

OK, you ask, how does the receiver that comes with HDMI switching like from an Onkyo HTIB come into the picture?

IT HAS THE SAME CAPABILITY AS A HDMI SWITCH YOU BUY FROM MONOPRICE. Thats it!!

Now as for the audio side, again, how big a deal is not having the ability to decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD? From a cable management perspective, you'll have to run coax or optical SPDIF from your source to the receiver.

Now you may ask what about the quality of the audio? Aren't those new formats higher quality?

Yes they are. However, without the right gear (speakers,receivers/pre-pro/amp), one will barely notice the difference. With entry level gear, these high resolution audio formats will basically be a waste.

Alright, so there are always alot of questions in the wild world of audio on the hot deal board. I invite people to ask questions and invite others with experience like StickyCash or tpurvin to answer questions regarding anything with audio, stereo or home theater, here in this thread!

Fire away with all questions audio! And for fun, introduce yourself and post your systems here as well, for those who have gear to show off :)

about time you get it started... :p
hopefully some others can chime in as well...such as buckeyefan1, Micheal Dallas, and jsantos615...

with blu-ray player prices coming down and more companies introducing their own... and the looming Feb 09 all-digital TV on the horizon... shouldnt be a shortage of new consumers looking for advice on audio gear and suggestions.
i'll direct all my pm seeking advice to post here...
my gear is in my siggy... but I am a proud Onkyo 805/PSB Image 7.1 owner. :heart:

Welcome sticky!

Here is my gear list, yes, this gets to be an expensive hobby.

Main system, home theater system:
Mains: Onix Strata Mini speakers
Center: Onix Ref100 center channel
Surround: Onix Rocket RS150
Sub: No dedicated sub, since each Strata Mini has a rear firing 350w 8" mass-loaded subwoofer good down to about 27hz
Wiring: Onix SP100 speaker cable

Electronics:
Processing: Emotiva LMC-1 preamp/processor
Amplification: Emotiva LPA-1 amplifier, 5x125w, 2x60w
Interconnects Front: Zu Cable Oxyfuel
Interconnects Rear: Acoustic Research PR series interconnects (well regarded and cheap)
Power: Furman PL-8 series II
Source: Onkyo DV-CP701 6 disc DVD player, custom built HTPC in a Thermaltake Bach case

TV:
El-cheap slickdeals Emprex 32" LCD :)

Old main system (all sold now):
Onkyo TX-SR701 receiver, Paradigm CC-370v2 center, Paradigm Monitor 9v2 mains

Office system:
Onix Rocket RS150
Onix ULW-10 350w subwoofer with SOS 1-band auto eq
Wiring: IXOS speaker cable
powered by the LPA-1 2x60w, zone 2 through the wall

Bedroom system:
Onix X-LS, modified for a slightly brighter top end
Yamaha RX-V450 receiver
Nordost speaker cables
Netgear MP101 wireless player
Toshiba 27" TV

Bookshelves I'm lusting after but have no room (or the cash) for: Usher Audio Be-718 'Tiny Dancer', Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor, Magico Mini MkII

I guess that I will start the questions off. I want to thank StickyCash for directing me here and for taking some time to correspond with me through PM. I will try to keep it short and to the point, but I want to make sure I get everything out there.

I am looking for a new receiver and surround sound speaker system. Looking to spend around $2,500 combined. I currently have:

Pioneer 50" plasma 1080P HDTV
PS3
older Sony receiver (not even an optical audio input) <----to be retired
Bose Accoustimass II system ( a 3:1) system <----to be retired
Time Warner HD cable box
Sony 5 disc DVD player (not used anymore since I have the PS3)

In the future, I plan to add another gaming system (Wii or X360) and likely a separate BD player. I am thinking that the receiver will be the base for my future expansion with my home media center and I won't be looking to buy a new one for years. Given the ability, I am sure my fiancee would love to hook her computer into the receiver to play her music. She has a Mac Pro tower and plans to purchase a Mac Book Pro within the year. I have a Dell desktop and a brand new Vostro 1500 laptop (thanks to slickdeals).

The three receivers I have narrowed it down to are the Onkyo TX-SR875, Denon AVR-3800CI and the Yamaha RX-V3800. Price isn't an issue as I can find these within $200-300 of each other.

For my speakers, I was looking at KEF KHT-3005 and also a company called Orb Audio. I must admit I am having a harder time researching speakers. For me, since I live in an apartment in NYC, space is an issue and I cannot purchase large speakers with a ton of wires nor do I want to try and buy speakers from various different manufacturers. I need to have the least obtrusive objects as much as possible. Preferably satellite speakers but might consider small bookshelf speakers. I am considering speaker stands, but I might also wall-mount some of the speakers now or sometime in the future.

I am fine with a 5:1 system now, but will want the ability to expand the system in the future to a 7:1, but I guess I can mix/match at that point. StickyCash asked me if I preferred warm or bright speakers, and since I mainly use my home audio for movies/games, I think I prefer a bright sound system, although as someone extremely naive about all of this, I don't know I could really tell the difference myself listening to two different systems that represent each. I use my home theatre probably 70% watching TV and movies, 20% gaming and 10% (at most) music.

Hope this helps. I look forward to everyone's thoughts and opinions. Thank you.

I guess that I will start the questions off. I want to thank StickyCash for directing me here and for taking some time to correspond with me through PM. I will try to keep it short and to the point, but I want to make sure I get everything out there.

I am looking for a new receiver and surround sound speaker system. Looking to spend around $2,500 combined. I currently have:

Pioneer 50" plasma 1080P HDTV
PS3
older Sony receiver (not even an optical audio input) <----to be retired
Bose Accoustimass II system ( a 3:1) system <----to be retired
Time Warner HD cable box
Sony 5 disc DVD player (not used anymore since I have the PS3)

In the future, I plan to add another gaming system (Wii or X360) and likely a separate BD player. I am thinking that the receiver will be the base for my future expansion with my home media center and I won't be looking to buy a new one for years. Given the ability, I am sure my fiancee would love to hook her computer into the receiver to play her music. She has a Mac Pro tower and plans to purchase a Mac Book Pro within the year. I have a Dell desktop and a brand new Vostro 1500 laptop (thanks to slickdeals).

The three receivers I have narrowed it down to are the Onkyo TX-SR875, Denon AVR-3800CI and the Yamaha RX-V3800. Price isn't an issue as I can find these within $200-300 of each other.

For my speakers, I was looking at KEF KHT-3005 and also a company called Orb Audio. I must admit I am having a harder time researching speakers. For me, since I live in an apartment in NYC, space is an issue and I cannot purchase large speakers with a ton of wires nor do I want to try and buy speakers from various different manufacturers. I need to have the least obtrusive objects as much as possible. Preferably satellite speakers but might consider small bookshelf speakers. I am considering speaker stands, but I might also wall-mount some of the speakers now or sometime in the future.

I am fine with a 5:1 system now, but will want the ability to expand the system in the future to a 7:1, but I guess I can mix/match at that point. StickyCash asked me if I preferred warm or bright speakers, and since I mainly use my home audio for movies/games, I think I prefer a bright sound system, although as someone extremely naive about all of this, I don't know I could really tell the difference myself listening to two different systems that represent each. I use my home theatre probably 70% watching TV and movies, 20% gaming and 10% (at most) music.

Hope this helps. I look forward to everyone's thoughts and opinions. Thank you.

Hi there,

Let me state that at a budget of $2500, there are very few bad options.

Lets start with speakers. If you can, go with bookshelves because the performance difference between satellites and bookshelves is a fairly wide gulf. Both floorstanding and bookshelves are solid choices in the world of audio but satellites are the biggest compromise.

First, the warm/bright question. Go down to your nearest Best Buy and audition. First, the warm/bright question. Go down to your nearest Best Buy and audition. Do you have a high end shop as well?

On the extreme bright side of the equation is Klipsch. If you enjoy this sound greatly, you will probably like brighter speakers. Now, for the warm side go to their Magnolia section, where you should find Vienna Acoustics. These are "warmer" speakers. Both are very good at what they do but everyone has different taste. Warm speaker aficionados find bright speakers grating and bright speaker lovers find warm speakers too recessed. Also in the Magnolia section are Definitive Technologies. They are considered on the brighter side, but not as bright as Klipsch (klipsch is the king of bright speakers)

In regards to receivers, those are all solid choices. Always spend more money on the speakers, since electronics go obsolete faster. Personally, I wouldn't spend over 35% on the receiver. Go with which feature sets suit you best. Both the Onkyo and Denon use the Audessey calibration system,, which is very nice. I lean towards Denon for overall sound. Yamaha's have a reputation for being a bit on the bright side. Onkyo usually is the value choice with the best feature set. Again, all 3 are solid choices.

So go audition some sets. After that, let's see if we can talk you into bookshelves :)

Lets start with speakers. If you can, go with bookshelves because the performance difference between satellites and bookshelves is a fairly wide gulf. Both floorstanding and bookshelves are solid choices in the world of audio but satellites are the biggest compromise.

First, the warm/bright question. Go down to your nearest Best Buy and audition. Do you have a high end shop as well?

I live and work in NYC, so I am sure there are plenty of high end shops, but I wouldn't know where/how to find one if my life depended on it. Never been a big fan of BB, but I do work right down the street from J&R, which is where I usually go for my electronics. I am sure they are a step up from BB, but I doubt that is what you would consider high end.

As for bookshelves, can you give me an idea of the size of speakers we are talking about? While I am doing my research on the warm/bright question, I can at least measure around the apartment and see if they are even an option, so as to not waste anyone's time (as much as possible considering my total inexperience). Again, always appreciated.

I live and work in NYC, so I am sure there are plenty of high end shops, but I wouldn't know where/how to find one if my life depended on it. Never been a big fan of BB, but I do work right down the street from J&R, which is where I usually go for my electronics. I am sure they are a step up from BB, but I doubt that is what you would consider high end.

As for bookshelves, can you give me an idea of the size of speakers we are talking about? While I am doing my research on the warm/bright question, I can at least measure around the apartment and see if they are even an option, so as to not waste anyone's time (as much as possible considering my total inexperience). Again, always appreciated.

turjam...
i feel the onkyo 875 and denon 3808 are the better of the 3. here's a couple features that i see stand out that one has over the other...
-the 875 has 10 more watts/ch... nothing to celebrate over... and given your apt status... probably less utilized.
-the 3808 has a 9 band speaker EQ vs 875's 7 band...for tweak freaks its an worthy welcome... not so much for the set-it and forget it types.
-the 3808 has one more digital optical input (4 vs 3) and an additional optical out (2 vs1) over the 875
-3808 has USB and Network Radio... this is really nice for those wanting to connect an external powered or non-powered harddrive to play music, such as flac music files... and it has streaming radio! onkyo should implement these features yesterday!
-one feature that will be on the new Onkyo's is a feature such as Denon's Compressed Audio Restorer... circuitry that pumps "fullness" back into ipod and mp3 files...
-the 875 has a better video processor (HQV Reon) than the Denon (Faroudja)- i take that back...the 875 has the BEST video upscaler available...if over 50% of your viewing will be from 480,720,and 1080i sources... then the 875 becomes a strong contender to the 3808.
-Denon has ethernet jack... should pose for easy firmware updates and of course internet content such as streaming radio, etc.
-both have XM...875 adds Sirius also....given the recent Fed OK for both to merge...its a moot feature soon
-the 3808 is slightly smaller in size...weighs less...and generates less heat than the 875.

as far as i see it...the Denon is more of an audiophile's receiver...and the Onkyo is more of an videophile's receiver. neither is a slouch in delivering big sound to a good set of speakers... but i feel the Onkyo's headroom gives it a slight edge in dynamics...and that comes through noticably with hi-def movie audio from blu-ray. I doubt the untrained ear can tell the difference...i like both...just the Onkyo is the aggressor.
If it was possible to combine the 3808's ethernet/USB/compressed restorer features with the 875's video prowess and effortless amp section... you'd have a undisputed a/v receiver in this price range.

i dont know if these places are in easy distance:
http://www.lihifi.com/index.shtml - call them up and ask if they have PSB Image and Polk Rti demo available... they seem to be appointment M-F, retail Sat. If successful... i'd be interested in your first impressions between the two.

your local J&R would be good to listen to Klipsch Reference RB line...

I live and work in NYC, so I am sure there are plenty of high end shops, but I wouldn't know where/how to find one if my life depended on it.

I live in North NJ, used to work in WFC so J&R wasnt far from me either. Its a great place full of great stuff, though the audio setup wasn't exactly great. The selection was decent though. They carry Polk, JBL, Klipsch, and Boston it looks like, all solid choices. Forget Bose, they are the pretty and low performing, overpriced rubbish of the audio world. Head over there sometimes and look at that lineup.

The Polk LSI and RTI bookshelves are quite nice, though not a favorite of mine, they are solid performers. The high end LSi series uses the famed Vifa Ring Radiator tweeter used in many expensive designs. If you want smaller though, here are some online direct choices:

av123 ELT525 (http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=193&category_id=51&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37)
Dana 640 (http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=32)
Axiom Audio (http://www.axiomaudio.com/products.html) Look at the bookshelves.
Aperion Audio bookshelves (http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/Satellite-Bookshelf,20.aspx)

Of course, there are also plenty of smaller bookshelf choices at your normal everyday audio shop too. I prefer Internet Direct Audio for the value quotient. Throw in real wood cabinets and high end drivers like some of those speakers above and your pushing into a lot of cash.

So head over there during lunch (done this many times!) and start poking around and see which you like. If you have an ipod or something with favorite tunes on there, bring it and ask to hook it up and audition your favorite music.

I think sticky has the receiver features covered well. Its not my forte as much as speakers.

Guess not much happening here eh :)

Hey sticky,

Being a hardcore PSB fan, did you check out this old link?

http://www.soundstagelive.com/factorytours/psbnrc/

I am heading over th J&R this evening. A friend passed me the following deal and said that these are great speakers, especially for the price. Any thoughts/opinions?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKLS500

Athena's are great value performers. But these are floorstanding speakers, they are quite big. If thats OK with you, then its a good buy. They're are going on the cheap because Athena as a brand is going away. They are part of Klipsch now, who bought out Athena, JBL, and Energy (API group). Obviously there's alot of overlap here, hence why Athena is going

Actually, if you have the room for it buy these. This is a slick deal. Post it in the deals forum!

Hey sticky,

Being a hardcore PSB fan, did you check out this old link?

http://www.soundstagelive.com/factorytours/psbnrc/

nope...never seen that one but i have read some about his work at NRC...
im gonna read through that....thanks. now find me a article or owner review who said anything bad about PSB speakers... :lmao: i havent found one...astonishing.

I am heading over th J&R this evening. A friend passed me the following deal and said that these are great speakers, especially for the price. Any thoughts/opinions?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKLS500

2 things...they are floorstanders and it doesnt include a sub... for a little over $600 you can have what i was going to suggest... some lovely PSB bookshelf and a center... (if maple is ok with your decor)

http://www.saturdayaudio.com/
scroll down to PSB speakers Image Sale...

(2) PSB B15 $460
(1) PSB C40 $220
the athenas are no match for PSB...and the B15 would take up less space... on stands or shelf. the C40 center is definitely larger....but thats a good thing. hopefully you can get to that store i mentioned and listen to the PSB...

:eek:
PSB Alpha B1...NIB..black on ebay...$199
http://cgi.ebay.com/PSB-Alpha-B-1-Bookshelf-Speakers-1pr-NEW-Black_W0QQitemZ370035700673QQihZ024QQcategoryZ14991QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
then you can get the matching center for $114 from saturday audio...

Infinity Primus P162 $160/pair
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Infinity-Primus-P162-Bookshelf-Speakers-NEW-PAIR_W0QQitemZ320232152797QQihZ011QQcategoryZ14991QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Infinity Primus PC250 center $120 (need to inquire if the grill is black)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-Primus-PC250-Center-Channel-Speaker-PC-250-NEW_W0QQitemZ150229362200QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14992QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Primus P152 $140/pair @vanns with free ship
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/542100069
P162 $200/pair "coming soon"


axiom m2v2 $296/pair http://www.axiomaudio.com/m2i_main.html#

svs sbs01 $225/pair http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm
svs scs01 center $135 (B-stock) https://svsound.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=180&CFID=84210&CFTOKEN=83653138

those are the ones that i think would bode well with what you or anyone looking for a small ht to consider...

good luck & enjoy!

Thank you both for all of your help and opinions. My fiancee freaked out when I showed her the floor standing speakers, so that was a no deal. The PSB speakers are really nice, but the maple is a deal killer. Everything in our living room is dark so the speakers would certainly not match.

Stickycash, can you provide some clarification on all of the speakers you listed on the above post? For example, would I buy two sets of the PSB Alpha B1 and then the matching center from saturday audio to make a 5:1 system? Or would I be looking to do the PSB Alpha B1, the Infinity Primus P162 and the Infinity Primus PC250 center for the 5:1 system? Also, none of these sets have a subwoofer, so I would like to have some advice on a subwoofer as well.

I am unable to get to the high-end sound store on Long Island. It's about an hour away and a huge hassle. I did go to J and R and listened to a few speakers (bose, polk, boston, kliptsch, and a couple others I think). I definitely believe that I like the bright speakers, not the warmer ones.

I have also decided that I am going to go with the Onkyo 875. The difference was the video upscaler and the use of the system for movies more than music. I might have bought the Denon if it was actually in stock at ecost.com, where a refurbished Denon 3808 is listed for $799, but never appears to be in stock. That being said, it seems that Onkyo should be coming out with their new line of receivers very soon. I am guessing that I should wait for two reasons: 1) to see if they have a receiver similar to the 875 with the ethernet/USB and 2) the price of last years models, including the 875, should drop. J&R has the 875 for $1,099 new, and I haven't seen a refurb on shoponkyo.com. What do you think?

Thank you both for all of your help and opinions. My fiancee freaked out when I showed her the floor standing speakers, so that was a no deal. The PSB speakers are really nice, but the maple is a deal killer. Everything in our living room is dark so the speakers would certainly not match.

Stickycash, can you provide some clarification on all of the speakers you listed on the above post? For example, would I buy two sets of the PSB Alpha B1 and then the matching center from saturday audio to make a 5:1 system? Or would I be looking to do the PSB Alpha B1, the Infinity Primus P162 and the Infinity Primus PC250 center for the 5:1 system? Also, none of these sets have a subwoofer, so I would like to have some advice on a subwoofer as well.

I am unable to get to the high-end sound store on Long Island. It's about an hour away and a huge hassle. I did go to J and R and listened to a few speakers (bose, polk, boston, kliptsch, and a couple others I think). I definitely believe that I like the bright speakers, not the warmer ones.

I have also decided that I am going to go with the Onkyo 875. The difference was the video upscaler and the use of the system for movies more than music. I might have bought the Denon if it was actually in stock at ecost.com, where a refurbished Denon 3808 is listed for $799, but never appears to be in stock. That being said, it seems that Onkyo should be coming out with their new line of receivers very soon. I am guessing that I should wait for two reasons: 1) to see if they have a receiver similar to the 875 with the ethernet/USB and 2) the price of last years models, including the 875, should drop. J&R has the 875 for $1,099 new, and I haven't seen a refurb on shoponkyo.com. What do you think?

as for PSB... i would contact the ebay seller and see if he has 2 pair of Alpha B1 and see what the total would be with shipping. Then i would contact Saturday Audio and see how much shipping would be on a black set of PSB B15... they have them for sale @ $269/pair. the c40 center is also $269. they have the alpha B1 @ $249 and alpha C1 @ $199. i bought my PSB from them and they have an excellent rep and of course they are authorized dealer.
as for the infinity...i just listed them as another viable option from another manufacturer... but you should go with the speakers from one or the other... not suggestion to mix and match brands...
you can go with 2 sets of Primus 162 and a center PC250...or 2 sets of Primus 152 plus center...or 1 set of Primus 162 (front), center and Primus 152 (surrounds)...
the other good deal is the SVS speakers...
as for subwoofer...since you live in an small apt... a 10" should be sufficient. i believe Saturday Audio is offering the PSB 5i for $369 with a PSB speaker purchase. check out the velodyne vx10...vanns has it for $170...others may have a better price. klipsch ksw-10 would work... along with the Athena AS-P4100... sellout.woot.com just had a killer sale on this sub for $105 shipped... i got 5 of them... currently using 3 of them until my av123 MFW-15's arrive... if you're interested... i would possibly sale one of my unopened units.
best to jot down all options with shipping included and go listen to them at local retailers. except the SVS... that PSB dealer probably isnt the only one in your area...best to call PSB or go online and enter your zip in their dealer locator and see if someone is near by...call inquire about model and see if a demo is available.
good luck and enjoy!

If you like brighter speakers, I'd recommend Axiom Audio online. I'm not a big fan of ebay honestly. Actually, if your a fan of brighter speakers, any of the Canadian makers you will probably enjoy (PSB, Paradigm, Energy, Axiom offers very nice bang for the buck, no middeman or dealer.

Check these out:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti_main.html

If you like brighter speakers, I'd recommend Axiom Audio online. I'm not a big fan of ebay honestly. Actually, if your a fan of brighter speakers, any of the Canadian makers you will probably enjoy (PSB, Paradigm, Energy, Axiom offers very nice bang for the buck, no middeman or dealer.

Check these out:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti_main.html

im not fan of ebay either...actually i never shop on ebay...but some are comfortable with the transactions... i agree...Axiom are bright speakers and a good value...

Added a wikipost to the first page. I wrote up a brief intro on satellite systems.. because so many people are buying them and so many deals come up with them.

Jesus christ, I found a pair (and center) of one of my favorite speakers used. $1200 for the 3, and about $2200 new.... these are bar-none one of the best bargains in audio... goddamn I wish I had the room. Turjam, its too bad you can't do floorstanders. These are flat out amazing pieces.

stickycash. i recently purchase the tx-sr605 and been looking around for a nice center speaker (currently using Bose AM10 III :( ) and i notice you were recomending axiom. ive never heard of them but from what i could tell they look prety decent. how does the VP100v2 / VP150v2 compare to say Klipsch RC-52 / RC-62?

<=audio noob :(

stickycash. i recently purchase the tx-sr605 and been looking around for a nice center speaker (currently using Bose AM10 III :( ) and i notice you were recomending axiom. ive never heard of them but from what i could tell they look prety decent. how does the VP100v2 / VP150v2 compare to say Klipsch RC-52 / RC-62?

<=audio noob :(

Buy the matching center channel for your main speakers. You want to match timbre across the front.

Buy the matching center channel for your main speakers. You want to match timbre across the front.

how do i know if my center match the L and R? when you say by spec? or by brand? or by both? lol. since i have bose AM 10. for now i was thinking of upgrading the center (since i can barely hear the dialoge on movies :( ) then later when i save enough i plan on upgrading the L and R.

how do i know if my center match the L and R? when you say by spec? or by brand? or by both? lol. since i have bose AM 10. for now i was thinking of upgrading the center (since i can barely hear the dialoge on movies :( ) then later when i save enough i plan on upgrading the L and R.

Ah, I didnt realize you had the entire AM10 set. Nevermind what I said. Basically, whatever center you decide on, your going to buy the matched mains later on for it. In other words, say you buy the Axiom VP100. That pretty much locks you in to buying other Axiom L and R speakers. Having mis-matched center is usually a bad thing. If your doing it temporarily, thats alright.

Klipsch speakers are pretty much the brightest speakers you can buy. They have ALOT of treble energy, this may or may not be your thing. Axioms are considered bright, but not Klipsch bright. If you have the chance, go out there and audition some brands and see what floats your boat. The closest thing out there are probably Paradigm Monitor series at high fi stores. If you can't find those, hit a best buy or circuit shitty. They will definately have Klipsch. Then find a brand like Polk or Vienna Acoustics at those stores. Axioms will be between both treble wise.

stickycash. i recently purchase the tx-sr605 and been looking around for a nice center speaker (currently using Bose AM10 III :( ) and i notice you were recomending axiom. ive never heard of them but from what i could tell they look prety decent. how does the VP100v2 / VP150v2 compare to say Klipsch RC-52 / RC-62?

<=audio noob :(
good suggestions by axiom (the member)...

congrats on your 605 purchase... great receiver for entry-level ht processing and power...
let me get a rough idea of your goals and steps to reaching that goal... do you live in an apt or house? roughly how big is your room in cubic feet? (W x D x H) what will be your listening habits? (movies xx%, music xx%, gaming xx%) when you do upgrade your Left Right, surrounds... are you anticipating floorstanding or bookshelf-type speakers? if bookshelf, will they go on the wall, on a shelf, or speaker stands? and most important, what's your surround sound speaker budget total?
i commend your approach...while not as common, building a HT "one-speaker-at-a-time" is a wise way to get to the level you want when working off a tight budget... and with 60% or more of movie information generating from the center channel...i think thats a great place to start.
have you had a chance to ascertain what kind of sound you like? bright, neutral, or warm?
i dont know how to catagorize Bose, because i never actually sat down with a set and seriously critique them... from what i heard they fall inbetween warm and neutral. like member axiom said...Klipsch are well known as bright speakers... and rightfully so as they are geared toward movie performance first...especially the reference line. Axiom speakers seem to get a love-dislike response from owners and those who gave them a trial. with more leaning to the former...they have been labeled bright also...and very "revealing" of the source material... which can be good or bad due to personal taste...i think if you have a well-damped room (fluffy couches, drapes, carpet, paintings) they can be very pleasing.... their in-home trial is a godsend... and by trying just one speaker (center) first... it would be be worth trying since return shipping wouldnt cost you much on it if you decided it wasnt for you.
while i dont place a lot of weight on mfr specs...they do matter...so lets take a look at the lower-cost options of the two you mentioned:
Axiom VP100:
Freq Resp +/-3db (Hz): 95-22 kHz
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(db): 89 dB
Tweeter: Single 1"
Woofer: Dual 5.25"
8 ohm

Klipsch RC-52
Freq Resp +/-3db (Hz): 67Hz-23kHz
SPL Anechoic: 96dB @ 2.83V / 1m
Tweeter: 1" compression driver mated to 90x60 square Tractrix® Horn
Woofer: Dual 5.25"
8 ohm
first thing that strikes me is the vp100's early low-end roll off @ 95... THX recommends a 80hz crossover between sub and front speakers... room size will play a factor...and a smaller room would probably offer enough gain to be ok... secondly... there's quite a wide gap in the sensitivity between both... meaning the vp100 will need more power to play at the same loudness level as the rc-52... say your listening position was about 10 feet away from the speaker and your goal was a loudness of 95db SPL... the vp100 would need about 70watts...while the RC-52 would only need about 15 watts... so, on "paper" thats how i see them compareing... but again, numbers are important ...but listening is more important. i hear often that a speaker that does music well makes for a good home theater speaker also...but the same cant be said for a ht speaker sounding good with music... if you were to reply and say you are 90% movies & games...i would go Klipsch... 50% or more music...and i would highly consider auditioning the axiom in the set-up. in going axiom, the vp150 is worth its $150 premium and definitely the go-to center. the rc-62 reminds me of the rc-52's twin brother who works out in the gym... when it come to mid-low bass...the rc-62 flexes his big 6.5" woofer muscles and taunts his smaller twin, "whatever you can do...i can do better!" :lol:
good luck & enjoy...

Awesome. Thanks sticky im learning alot.. let me try to give you guys more details. thanks btw for helping me out.

hooked up my set last night it was awesome. im upgrading from an old pioneer recever that was made in 99 which didnt even have DTS so it was a big step for me. anyways from what i notice the sound was much clearer when i listen to TrueHD(via PS3). but honestly the sound was a bit lacking. in order for me to enjoy the movie (I am Legend BR) i had the volume up to 56 and there were times that i could barely hear the dialoge if i increase the volume more the background sound effect and special sound effect washes out the movie.it gets too loud. im pretty sure my speaker (AM10 series 3) was the culprit. so i went to the speaker setting on the onkyo receiver (havent mess around with the AQ thingy for the auto calibration) and set the distance of my listening point and increase the volume db for my center, surround and left. it made a difference but not much, still was better than before. im pretty sure the only way to fully enjoy this reciever is to upgrade my speaker. base on your review ill most like get the Klipsch rc-52 unless theres something better out there for the same or lower price that can match the rc-52.

The room im setting the HT is in my bedroom. its a house and the room about 20x12x8. Listening habits will mostly 80%movies 20%games. Not sure yet if i want a tower or bookshelf but if i do go bookshelf it might end up hanging on the wall.. Budget let say in the next 2 months or so (since im peicing to gether) say around 1200 or less.
Well from what i read and heard, the center speaker is the most important peice out of the five/seven . 75% of a movie soundtrack and dialogue emits from the center. Center > Sub> Front / left > surround. i think.. ive alse read somewhere that you have to compliment your center with a matching L and R but i dont know how :(.. like what to look for.. how to match it. and what is the general rule? .

for the what sound i was looking for question warm/neutral/ or bright. well, i can't honestly say. im not sure what are the differences between the three but from what i can tell you im looking for something where the dialogue comes crisp and clear (the volume doesnt have to be realy high) and be able to hear and enjoy the dialogue in scenes with heavy speacial effects. what i notice in my old set up was the dialoge gets washed out when theres scene where theres lots of exposion or heavy sound effect in the background.

BTW when looking at speaker specs. what am i realy looking for? like when they say A:frequency resp: +/-3db (Hz): 95-22 kHz vs B:frequency resp: +/-3db (Hz): 67-23 kHz what does it realy mean. i mean from base on the number id say B: cause it has a much wider range in frequency. but my question is what makes it wider? why is it wider? and is Wider always better?
A: Woofer 6"1/4 vs B: Woofer 5"1/2.
i say A: just because it has a bigger woofer. question is it always better go bigger?
Peak vs Continuous?
Watt on my receiver vs Watt on my speaker. How to match it.
SPL Anechoic?



to be honest with you. for an average consumer like my self (and im ashame to admit this) is that we go by price. lol.. if its more $$$ then its better. Name brand is better than unknown name brand. i know this isnt always the case but for an average yuppy (like my self :( ), we falls for it all the time. hence i have a BOSE :(

Hey Ironchef,

The Onkyo is a solid choice. This current lineup of Onkyos I think are the best value receivers I've seen yet. Sounds like your enjoying it!

I'll admit now, I'm not a Bose fan. Yes, I'm part of that horde of Bose bashers, but for good reason. They are very poor price per dollar. Even used, I'd be hesitant to buy, unless I was reselling it again. Your muddy dialog is because of that tiny little center channel.

As for the warm/bright thing, like I said before, go audition and you will hear for YOURSELF what these descriptions means. Go listen to a Klipsch speaker and you will know bright (ear-bleeding bright!). Then go listen to a brand like Vienna Acoustics in the Magnolia section of Best Buy. That is slightly warm. The lower end market (under $1000) tends to be on the bright side of things. Not that this is bad, but people generally are instantly attracted to bright speakers, for better or worse. I'm more of a warm speaker person myself.

You are correct about the center channel. It is the most important channel for movie use. Basically, every speaker line these days has a center channel. So the company 99% has a center for whatever speaker set you want to buy.

Don't be set on Klipsch just yet until you listen at your local dealer. Where do you live?

I'll put your question about frequency response in the wikipost, it deserves a detailed answer. The short answer: it is important yes, but its not the BE ALL END ALL spec to speakers. Buying a speaker by looking at frequency response is like buying a car based on 0-60 specs. Any decent car will have a decent 0-60.. but is that you car about? Of course not.

Look at the wikipost I started on page 1 about satellites. It'll answer your question about woofer size. I'll post more about that later also. As an amateur modder and DIY guy, woofer size means nothing UNLESS you are comparing the same brand and same line. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges. Let me use a car analogy again. Is the inline-4 engine in the Honda S2000 inferior to the pushrod V6 found in a Saturn just cause its 4-cylinders vs. 6? Of course not.. its not even close.. the S2000's 4 wins by a mile.

Let me give you are relavent example. I'm building a new DIY speaker. I can buy a ScanSpeak Revelator 5.25" woofer or a mid-level 6.5" from Peerless. The Revelator is probably one of the best woofers you can buy on the market.. quite a few designs use a variation of it in the high end market. Peerless makes some excellent drivers which I also enjoy, but its not the Revelator.

Regarding watts, don't sweat this too much. Unless your going to run pricey speakers, generally speaking, your receiver is FINE. A receiver in your price range generally will do about 30-50watts continuous with all channels driven. Yes, don't believing the marketing spec hype. All receivers in this price range give you the watt spec for TWO channels... fine print! BUT don't sweat it. Again, unless your running pricey or odder brand speakers, any speaker in your price range should be FINE.

Awesome. Thanks sticky im learning alot.. let me try to give you guys more details. thanks btw for helping me out.

hooked up my set last night it was awesome. im upgrading from an old pioneer recever that was made in 99 which didnt even have DTS so it was a big step for me. anyways from what i notice the sound was much clearer when i listen to TrueHD(via PS3). but honestly the sound was a bit lacking. in order for me to enjoy the movie (I am Legend BR) i had the volume up to 56 and there were times that i could barely hear the dialoge if i increase the volume more the background sound effect and special sound effect washes out the movie.it gets too loud. im pretty sure my speaker (AM10 series 3) was the culprit. so i went to the speaker setting on the onkyo receiver (havent mess around with the AQ thingy for the auto calibration) and set the distance of my listening point and increase the volume db for my center, surround and left. it made a difference but not much, still was better than before. im pretty sure the only way to fully enjoy this reciever is to upgrade my speaker. base on your review ill most like get the Klipsch rc-52 unless theres something better out there for the same or lower price that can match the rc-52.

The room im setting the HT is in my bedroom. its a house and the room about 20x12x8. Listening habits will mostly 80%movies 20%games. Not sure yet if i want a tower or bookshelf but if i do go bookshelf it might end up hanging on the wall.. Budget let say in the next 2 months or so (since im peicing to gether) say around 1200 or less.
Well from what i read and heard, the center speaker is the most important peice out of the five/seven . 75% of a movie soundtrack and dialogue emits from the center. Center > Sub> Front / left > surround. i think.. ive alse read somewhere that you have to compliment your center with a matching L and R but i dont know how :(.. like what to look for.. how to match it. and what is the general rule? .

for the what sound i was looking for question warm/neutral/ or bright. well, i can't honestly say. im not sure what are the differences between the three but from what i can tell you im looking for something where the dialogue comes crisp and clear (the volume doesnt have to be realy high) and be able to hear and enjoy the dialogue in scenes with heavy speacial effects. what i notice in my old set up was the dialoge gets washed out when theres scene where theres lots of exposion or heavy sound effect in the background.

BTW when looking at speaker specs. what am i realy looking for? like when they say A:frequency resp: +/-3db (Hz): 95-22 kHz vs B:frequency resp: +/-3db (Hz): 67-23 kHz what does it realy mean. i mean from base on the number id say B: cause it has a much wider range in frequency. but my question is what makes it wider? why is it wider? and is Wider always better?
A: Woofer 6"1/4 vs B: Woofer 5"1/2.
i say A: just because it has a bigger woofer. question is it always better go bigger?
Peak vs Continuous?
Watt on my receiver vs Watt on my speaker. How to match it.
SPL Anechoic?



to be honest with you. for an average consumer like my self (and im ashame to admit this) is that we go by price. lol.. if its more $$$ then its better. Name brand is better than unknown name brand. i know this isnt always the case but for an average yuppy (like my self :( ), we falls for it all the time. hence i have a BOSE :(

If your anywhere near NY, run, don't walk and pick up this used set:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1208830450

If I had another room..... ugh. These babies are on my short list. I can barely think of any other speaker I'd want at $2k, let alone at $1200 for the set. Above 80hz, almost NOTHING can touch these.

also for those who has the tx-sr605 im hoping you guys might be able to answere this.
if i connect a composite source to the receiver and have hdmi monitor on. will the composite signal (480i) be upconverted to 720p? cause right now its my tv is saying the composite is only 480p.

you're confusing "upconverting" with "upsampling"... the former is when the receiver takes an analog source...such as your composite input and "upconverts" it to output the signal thru HDMI... outputing through component video can also be an example of upconversion.
upsampling is scaling the video resolution, such as you may desire, 480i-to-720p... another example could be 720p in -to- 1080p out...
the 605 does not have upscaling abilities... it does have a de-interlacer...which is why you are seeing a 480p output on your TV from a 480i input. the 705 will upscale to 720 & 1080 depending on the source input.
hope that helps... if any other questions feel free to ask...

you're confusing "upconverting" with "upsampling"...

I believe the 705 has the Farjouda chip for upscaling.

I believe the 705 has the Farjouda chip for upscaling.

Ok I'm wrong. The 805 is the cheapest Onkyo with upscaling. It also has Burr-Brown DACs... its a pretty sweet "Low of the high end" machine.

woot. someone posted a 10% Best Buy coupon in SD.. i might pick up the RC-52 tonight. cant wait..
oh ok i get it now.. upscaling vs upconverting.. Upscaling > Upconverting

woot. someone posted a 10% Best Buy coupon in SD.. i might pick up the RC-52 tonight. cant wait..
oh ok i get it now.. upscaling vs upconverting.. Upscaling > Upconverting

Good luck on those klipschs!

Yes, and remember both a receiver or a TV can upscale. Alot of the time, they will advertise the upscaling chip as a feature checklist.

Hi guys, I'm looking for a little buying advice. I've just started upgrading my audio system and here's what I have so far:

Fronts: 2x Polk RTi12
Rear: 2x Polk R300
Center: Pending - probably either Polk CSI5 or Polk CSI A6

Right now I'm looking to get a new receiver so that I can feed the RTi12s well (I plan on bi-amping them). I'm currently looking at the Onkyo TX-SR805 (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR805&class=Receiver&p=i) or the Yamaha RX-V1800 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558291&CTID=5000300). One of the nice features that I like about the Yamaha is that it has 4 HDMI inputs vs. 3 on the Onkyo. I've already got 3 HDMI devices and I think I'll definitely be needing the extra port in the future. From what I've read it seems that the Yamaha 1800 is the better receiver overall.

Does anyone have any opinions on these two receivers? I was getting ready to get the Yamaha until I read that it clips the HDMI input levels to between 16-235. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178) This is supposed to be the standard range that TV, DVDs, HD DVDs, BluRay, etc. are mastered to so I'm not sure that this is much of a problem. But there are cases where certain material uses blacker-than-black (BTB) values and in those cases the Yamaha would clip any values below 16 and you'd never see them. Though if you have your display calibrated correctly then you shouldn't see anything below 16 (BTB) anyway since anything shown at 16 or below should be pure black (unless you turn up the brightness).

So now I'm borderline - I'm not sure that this is really a problem that I should be worried about. But on the other side, it bothers me that Yamaha is modifying the HDMI signal from the source and sending a clipped signal to the display. Supposedly analog signals (S-Video, Component, etc.) upconverted to HDMI do allow for BTB levels and no clipping is performed.

So what do you guys think?

Thanks for the input!

Hi guys, I'm looking for a little buying advice. I've just started upgrading my audio system and here's what I have so far:

Fronts: 2x Polk RTi12
Rear: 2x Polk R300
Center: Pending - probably either Polk CSI5 or Polk CSI A6

Right now I'm looking to get a new receiver so that I can feed the RTi12s well (I plan on bi-amping them). I'm currently looking at the Onkyo TX-SR805 (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR805&class=Receiver&p=i) or the Yamaha RX-V1800 (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558291&CTID=5000300). One of the nice features that I like about the Yamaha is that it has 4 HDMI inputs vs. 3 on the Onkyo. I've already got 3 HDMI devices and I think I'll definitely be needing the extra port in the future. From what I've read it seems that the Yamaha 1800 is the better receiver overall.

Does anyone have any opinions on these two receivers? I was getting ready to get the Yamaha until I read that it clips the HDMI input levels to between 16-235. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178) This is supposed to be the standard range that TV, DVDs, HD DVDs, BluRay, etc. are mastered to so I'm not sure that this is much of a problem. But there are cases where certain material uses blacker-than-black (BTB) values and in those cases the Yamaha would clip any values below 16 and you'd never see them. Though if you have your display calibrated correctly then you shouldn't see anything below 16 (BTB) anyway since anything shown at 16 or below should be pure black (unless you turn up the brightness).

So now I'm borderline - I'm not sure that this is really a problem that I should be worried about. But on the other side, it bothers me that Yamaha is modifying the HDMI signal from the source and sending a clipped signal to the display. Supposedly analog signals (S-Video, Component, etc.) upconverted to HDMI do allow for BTB levels and no clipping is performed.

So what do you guys think?

Thanks for the input!

Hey Kuwan,

I wouldn't worry too much about the the Yamaha's clipping. Honestly, I'd have no hesitation about buying any of the big boys in receivers (Denon, HK, Yamaha, Onkyo). On the audio side, the Onkyo's Audessey calibration is generally considered the best auto-calibration system on the market, better than Yamaha's YPAO. For me, I'd just find the best deal I can on one of these and call it a day. However, some of the other members pointed here there were some major heating issues with the 805. I believe there are some threads over on AVS on that.

Are you dead set on Polk? Polk makes some great entry level gear and their mid level gear is solid, but there are some other nice choices. The Paradigm Monitor 9 v5 is a very nice piece for the money. But my cash would go to this particular speaker:
X-statik open baffle speaker (http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=176&category_id=21&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37)

Keep in mind the shipping maybe a bit high so add that cost in. Maybe I'm biased, but Onix makes some of the best bang for the buck out there. Their drivers and crossover quality is hard to beat at this price point. I do some light speaker modification and intend to build some stuff. I can tell you those poly caps, air core inductors, and the big kick, SonicCaps!!! are not cheap. The 5.25" version of that woofer, the GR Research M-130X runs about $40 retail. This doesn't sound like a lot but try to find out the costs of most speakers on the market. You will be surprised at how cheap they are. The M-130X is a VERY highly regarded woofer in the DIY community.

The center is no slouch either.
X-voc e center (http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=177&category_id=21&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37)

Or if you need smaller:
x-cs center (http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=174&category_id=21&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37)

Hey Kuwan,

I wouldn't worry too much about the the Yamaha's clipping. Honestly, I'd have no hesitation about buying any of the big boys in receivers (Denon, HK, Yamaha, Onkyo). On the audio side, the Onkyo's Audessey calibration is generally considered the best auto-calibration system on the market, better than Yamaha's YPAO. For me, I'd just find the best deal I can on one of these and call it a day. However, some of the other members pointed here there were some major heating issues with the 805. I believe there are some threads over on AVS on that.

Yeah, I've heard that the Onkyo can get quite hot, which could be an issue. There's currently a really good deal on the Yamaha which is why I'm considering it. It's normally around $1200 but the current deal is $768 shipped. That's just barely above the Onkyo 805's going rate of around $700-750. And to get an extra HDMI port for only a little bit more seems like a great deal.

As for the speakers, I've already got those, at least the fronts and the rears. I still need to get the center channel. I'm very happy with the Polks so far. I did look at av123.com's stuff when looking into speakers, but most of their stuff was on back order and I found some really excellent deals on the Polks.

Yeah, I've heard that the Onkyo can get quite hot, which could be an issue. There's currently a really good deal on the Yamaha which is why I'm considering it. It's normally around $1200 but the current deal is $768 shipped. That's just barely above the Onkyo 805's going rate of around $700-750. And to get an extra HDMI port for only a little bit more seems like a great deal.

As for the speakers, I've already got those, at least the fronts and the rears. I still need to get the center channel. I'm very happy with the Polks so far. I did look at av123.com's stuff when looking into speakers, but most of their stuff was on back order and I found some really excellent deals on the Polks.

Sorry didn't realize you had the speakers already!

At that price, I'd just get the Yamaha. I'd worry about that Onkyo heating problem and thats quite a nice deal!

As for biamping, give it a shot, though I've tried it on old speakers and I prefered not biamping. Basically, you are replacing the internal crossover with the receiver acting as a crossover. If the receiver can use its auto-calibration in concert with biamping, this might yield some really nice performance upgrades because you are essentially get an active tuned crossover. However, it could be worse as well. A speaker like the one I have has a very well engineered internal crossover and I'd doubt bi-amping would help it much without the use of a high end active crossover. But, experiment and see what you can get. If you have a room response microphone, even better, you can take measurements.

Wow, I'm trying to do some research which I'll continue & found this thread. When it comes to sound though, everything flies over my head. Next weekend I'll have about $400 to spend on a surround sound system, but really not to picky if its cheaper. The only thing is that I will have just over $400 in a Bestbuy giftcard. Anything we get now will be an upgrade from never having any better sound quality.

The range would actually be about $200-$400 spending at BestBuy and we have all 3 game systems(PS3, 360, Wii) plus Direct TV HD-DVR. Any general idea on getting my bang for the buck would be helpful. Thanks!

Wow, I'm trying to do some research which I'll continue & found this thread. When it comes to sound though, everything flies over my head. Next weekend I'll have about $400 to spend on a surround sound system, but really not to picky if its cheaper. The only thing is that I will have just over $400 in a Bestbuy giftcard. Anything we get now will be an upgrade from never having any better sound quality.

The range would actually be about $200-$400 spending at BestBuy and we have all 3 game systems(PS3, 360, Wii) plus Direct TV HD-DVR. Any general idea on getting my bang for the buck would be helpful. Thanks!

Welcome!

For an all in one solution, its hard to beat any of the Onkyo sets that show up here. When someone I know wants something in your price range and don't want to do alot of work waiting for sales, this is the set I recommend.

You may want to piece something together from the deals here. The Polk R series goes on sale here every so often. If you are going to get something piece by piece, I would spend about $100 on the receiver, $100 on a sub, and the rest on speakers.

You may want to piece something together from the deals here. The Polk R series goes on sale here every so often. If you are going to get something piece by piece, I would spend about $100 on the receiver, $100 on a sub, and the rest on speakers.

Speaking of the Polk R series Fry's has a deal on the R300s right now - $49.99 each vs. $199.99 each normally:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=308995&t=766221

I got two of them for my rear channels, but they'd be an excellent choice for a low cost surround system - you could get 4 plus a center or just get 5 (if you have room for a floor-standing center ;) ). I know you've got a gift card at Best Buy, but you're not likely to find better speakers there at this price.

Sorry didn't realize you had the speakers already!

At that price, I'd just get the Yamaha. I'd worry about that Onkyo heating problem and thats quite a nice deal!

As for biamping, give it a shot, though I've tried it on old speakers and I prefered not biamping. Basically, you are replacing the internal crossover with the receiver acting as a crossover. If the receiver can use its auto-calibration in concert with biamping, this might yield some really nice performance upgrades because you are essentially get an active tuned crossover. However, it could be worse as well. A speaker like the one I have has a very well engineered internal crossover and I'd doubt bi-amping would help it much without the use of a high end active crossover. But, experiment and see what you can get. If you have a room response microphone, even better, you can take measurements.
Well, I decided to get the Yamaha. I think it'll be a great receiver and I can't wait to hook it up. This is the current deal for it, $768 shipped at 6ave.com:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=10862971

I thought one of the other benefits to bi-amping was that you can send twice as much power to the speakers. Is this not a large advantage? Anyway, I'll definitely do some experimenting to see what sounds the best.

Now all I need to get is my center channel.

Thanks for the input guys! Will be keeping my eyes open, though I would prefer to go BestBuy, that does sound like a very great deal there and one I might bite on.

Thanks for the input guys! Will be keeping my eyes open, though I would prefer to go BestBuy, that does sound like a very great deal there and one I might bite on.

The $50 Polks are a better value than anything at Best Buy. For $50, you can get the cheapy Insignia bookshelf. Thats about it. You can pick up some Martin Logan Puritys for $2000 though :)

Well, I decided to get the Yamaha. I think it'll be a great receiver and I can't wait to hook it up. This is the current deal for it, $768 shipped at 6ave.com:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=10862971

I thought one of the other benefits to bi-amping was that you can send twice as much power to the speakers. Is this not a large advantage? Anyway, I'll definitely do some experimenting to see what sounds the best.

Now all I need to get is my center channel.

Theres a few issues here.

First of all, do you need more power to the speaker? I bet your ears will start bleeding before you even get close.

Secondly, the amount of power you need to reach those high levels are very very high. Look at this chart:
SPL vs. watts chart (http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html)

Thirdly, even if you *wanted* to put in more power in your system, your receiver won't have enough power. You have a 40lb class AB receiver. Class AB is your standard nonswitching type amplifier (as opposed to Class D or T amps like the Panasonic XR series) used in 90% of receivers and amplifiers. I would guess this receiver can do at most, 50 watts continuous all channels driven. Most receiver company inflate their ratings, not telling you that that 100w or 130w number is only 2 channels driven and sometimes even into 4 or 6 ohms!

hi sticky cash,

was wondering if you could enlighten me with your expect advice for my problem.
Was planning to get the refurb deal on HT SR800 home theather system that was on for $289. Unfortunately the deal went dead before i could get it.

Which leaves me now with the following available option:

1. Buy the new HT SR800 for $399
2. Buy the refurb HT SP904 for $399
3. Wait for the next offer of HT SR800 for $289

I know the SP904 comes with dvd player n ipod dock but i would like to know which of the 2 has better receiver and speakers.

I am also not in a rush, just taking my time to grab a good deal.

thanks

hi sticky cash,

was wondering if you could enlighten me with your expect advice for my problem.
Was planning to get the refurb deal on HT SR800 home theather system that was on for $289. Unfortunately the deal went dead before i could get it.

Which leaves me now with the following available option:

1. Buy the new HT SR800 for $399
2. Buy the refurb HT SP904 for $399
3. Wait for the next offer of HT SR800 for $289

I know the SP904 comes with dvd player n ipod dock but i would like to know which of the 2 has better receiver and speakers.

I am also not in a rush, just taking my time to grab a good deal.

thanks

option 1 or 3...
the SR800 has a MUCH better receiver (sr550 vs SP904's SR505)
and the SR800 has better speakers (larger woofers on the LCR)

the receiver in the sr800 package is somewhere in between an Onkyo 505 and 605. It has the same amp and digital converters as the 605...but you don't get the new HD audio formats (TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA) via HDMI cable as the HDMI on the HTR550 only carries video. BUT with the right blu-ray player now or in a future upgrade... thats a moot point as the sr550 does have 7.1 channel rca inputs.

that was a good refurb deal from onkyousa that included a free upconvert dvd player... if you can wait... there could possibly be a good offering around the next holiday... probably father's day. as long as you're content with the entry-level performance and willing to accept the compromises of a HTiB, the Onkyo SR800's version of this popular surround sound option is very hard to beat...even at $399.
sr800 htmag review:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/hometheaterinabox/607onksr800/
good luck and enjoy

Getting on the preorder list for the Emotiva UMC-1 (LMC-1 replacement)! Its going to go for $600 new, $400 for us original LMC owners. High end DACs and a Genesis Turino upscaler... very nice!

Getting on the preorder list for the Emotiva UMC-1 (LMC-1 replacement)! Its going to go for $600 new, $400 for us original LMC owners. High end DACs and a Genesis Turino upscaler... very nice!

yes...nice...

but I have to question the single hdmi output... i know a number of high-end installs that can use the bennie of 2 hdmi outputs... I really wish Emotiva would have implemented this feature ... like Denon has. but its not just E.... Krell's new $25,000 pre/pro has only one hdmi out also... :confused: go figure. Glad to see the upcoming Marantz pre/pro AV8003 has 2...

i think that Emo pre/pro will be $700 new....no?

yes...nice...

but I have to question the single hdmi output... i know a number of high-end installs that can use the bennie of 2 hdmi outputs... I really wish Emotiva would have implemented this feature ... like Denon has. but its not just E.... Krell's new $25,000 pre/pro has only one hdmi out also... :confused: go figure. Glad to see the upcoming Marantz pre/pro AV8003 has 2...

i think that Emo pre/pro will be $700 new....no?

$700 your right. I was on the original UL waiting list back when Emotiva products were sold through av123 so I should be able to get it for $350. 40% off $700 will be for those who bought later.

True enough, but what can anyone expect for such a low price in a precessor? I took a hard look at the Onkyo 805 which is comparable but the heat problem and poor customer service scared me off. Plus the fact I'm on the half price list made it a shoo in for the UMC-1. The LPA-1 vs any receiver's amp section under $2000 or even $3000. Even the $2500 list 43xx series is only a 40lb class AB amp. The Toshiba 1.2kilowatt transformer in the LPA-1 is a beast.

Its a pretty sad sight to behold, but one of our big local hifi shops is closing down (Sound City). They tried converting to a home theater place but eventually the big boxes like Best Buy were just too much. In their hayday, they had some really snazzy pricey stuff like Joseph Audio. The place was a mess.. a pair of new Paradigm Studio 100v4s were hooked up to a Yamaha RX-V659 or something else equally cheap... which sounded just terrible.

Its sobering though too. They are a big PSB dealer. They were clearing out some PSB Image B25 at $300. I thought to myself.. woah thats a great price! I should snag a pair. I turned up the Denon next to it... and damn. A solid good speaker but the problem is internet direct speakers are such a great value now. My Onix X-LS speakers were just a small step above in performance... and the Ascend CBM-170s I've heard are about the same level. Not only that, the real wood veneer were just several notches above in looks as well. And to top it off, the Onix are about $200 less! How do you compete against that?

I'm getting a pretty good deal on some Polk Audio speakers, I was wondering if I could get some advice, as I'm not too great on speaker knowledge. I've had a hard time finding good data on the internet. The purpose of this setup is mainly for games and hopefully for some blu-ray movies, I'm trying to have mid/upper mid level equipment
I got an Onkyo 705
I'm getting for the fronts PA RTi8s
the center Csi3
the surrounds Fxi3s
and a Monitor Audio R360 sub

I'm kinda raiding the Sound Advice clearance racks so I'm getting lower-than-internet prices, which being slickdeals I think you guys can understant going as low price as you can. But I just want to make sure their's no red-flags or anything like that. For the amp though I'm alittle concerned as it has a 4 ohm output will that be alright with the Onkyo?

The Onkyo will be fine, don't worry about it.

Ohm is a measure of resistance, basically when a speaker is designed, there is a certain load it presents to the amp. When you check out well written speaker reviews, they will include charts, in this case you'd want one call the impedence curve. This is a measure of the load of the speaker at various frequencies. The easiest to drive speakers average 8ohms. Poorly designed POS speakers, expensive speakers, planar types average lower average impedence ratings so they are hard to drive. Thats why you have some crazy amps driving pricey gear. Your Polks are well made but they aren't hard to drive. Don't sweat it.

Since your 705 has RCA preouts, you can add an amp to it later if you want. An amp would help define the midbass. My old Paradigm Monitor 9s were fairly efficient and I had an Onkyo 701, about the same capability as yours. As soon as I added the amp, the speaker could hit low notes with alot more ease, more depth, and much tighter.

This amp is the best for the money if your interested. Even at regular price, I dare you to find another 7.1 amp with a 1.2kwatt transformer than can do 225watts into a 4 ohm load under a thousand bucks:
http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

Polk RTi8:
Overall Frequency Response 30Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 40Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms

I need some advice about which receiver to keep for my KEF2005.1 speakers: Onkyo TX-SR804 vs Harman Kardon AVR-347.
Thanks a lot

I need some advice about which receiver to keep for my KEF2005.1 speakers: Onkyo TX-SR804 vs Harman Kardon AVR-347.
Thanks a lot

Power wise, these aren't big speakers, so either would be good.

I'd look at feature set.

In which case, go for a newer Onkyo like the 705 which has the HDMI upconversion and Audessey EQ.

Hey guys. Looking for a little advice from audio experts as I am a novice in this area.

I am moving into a new house next month, and the room that I am going to use as my TV/Entertainment room is a Loft on the 2nd floor above the living room, which has 3 walls and is completely open on 1 side to the far front wall of the house (approximately 35 - 40 feet) and open to the bottom level. The dimensions of the Loft are 18 X 16, not including the tons of open area on the open side

What type of surround sound or audio setup will work best with this type of room? Will I lose anything with a typical 5.1 to 7.1 surround sound system? Would a 2.1 or soundbar system be a viable consideration?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Hey guys. Looking for a little advice from audio experts as I am a novice in this area.

I am moving into a new house next month, and the room that I am going to use as my TV/Entertainment room is a Loft on the 2nd floor above the living room, which has 3 walls and is completely open on 1 side to the far front wall of the house (approximately 35 - 40 feet) and open to the bottom level. The dimensions of the Loft are 18 X 16, not including the tons of open area on the open side

What type of surround sound or audio setup will work best with this type of room? Will I lose anything with a typical 5.1 to 7.1 surround sound system? Would a 2.1 or soundbar system be a viable consideration?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Thats a decent size room!

Well, for starters the whole soundbar thing is up to you. Find a place to audition them. A lot of people like them alot, but its not for me. Its a compromise to a real surround setup. Even worse for you is the big opening. Soundbars want walls to reflect off of to simulate sound from behind and to the side. That space would make that even more difficult.

What is your budget? I'd recommend a good tower or bookshelf setup. A challenge for you will be a good sub to fill that space.

Thats a decent size room!

Well, for starters the whole soundbar thing is up to you. Find a place to audition them. A lot of people like them alot, but its not for me. Its a compromise to a real surround setup. Even worse for you is the big opening. Soundbars want walls to reflect off of to simulate sound from behind and to the side. That space would make that even more difficult.

What is your budget? I'd recommend a good tower or bookshelf setup. A challenge for you will be a good sub to fill that space]

I am looking to spend around $600 to $700 dollars or less if possible on an audio system. I figured I would have problems with the soundbar thing since the open area would make bouncing the beams pretty tough.

Does anyone have experience with a traditional 5.1 system in this type of room? Is there a noticeable loss of surround capabilities since one side of the room is completely open?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

have any idea how these sound?

Polk rm10
KEF KHT2005
Harman Kardon HKTS11/18

which one is the best/worst quality out of these choices?

I am looking to spend around $600 to $700 dollars or less if possible on an audio system. I figured I would have problems with the soundbar thing since the open area would make bouncing the beams pretty tough.

Does anyone have experience with a traditional 5.1 system in this type of room? Is there a noticeable loss of surround capabilities since one side of the room is completely open?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


Actually my setup is similiar. I have a 18x13 room with a big 10' opening on one side. Its fine with a standard 5.1 setup.

For $600-$700, this could be a tough one. At $300-$500 I can' point someone at Onkyo systems. For $1000 I can put together something using bookshelves.

Here's an idea. Check out your local craigslist and I bet you can find something really nice. I've done it before.

If you want to piece it together using sales/used/clearance, this would be my breakdown:
Receiver $200 - you won't get next gen audio though, but you get deals off slick all the time.
Subwoofer $200 - possibly this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

Speaker $300 - I'd go with something like this:
http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html

have any idea how these sound?

Polk rm10
KEF KHT2005
Harman Kardon HKTS11/18

which one is the best/worst quality out of these choices?

Never actually heard any of these in real life. Any reason you don't want a larger setup?

Never actually heard any of these in real life. Any reason you don't want a larger setup?

I'd like to keep it to just satellites..I don't have enough room for floorstanding speakers--too bulky also.

I'd like to keep it to just satellites..I don't have enough room for floorstanding speakers--too bulky also.

That Kef looks a bit pricey. I'd probably get the Polk or HK myself just because of sheer price. Anywhere you can audition these?

Have you considered the Onkyo sets? They are my favorite bang for the buck under-$500 complete set and comes with a good receiver.

Denon has just released their new lineup of receivers with a big list of improvements. Looks like they are taking the Onkyo upgrades seriously. This is great news as Denon has always had great sounding stuff.

Denon introduces 10 new receivers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1031668)

Hey guys.

Looking for a little advice from audio experts as I am new to this area.

I am planning to setup a home theater in my living room ( dimensions 12 ft width x 20 ft length x 10 ft height).

I have a Panasonic VIERA TH-50PC77U 50" Plasma HDTV, gaming console Wii.

I am thinking about Onkyo HTSP904 Reconditioned 5.1-Channel Home Theater Package with DVD, iPod® Dock - $259.10 which is posted at the http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=827547&p=11432625&highlight=ONKYO#post11432625

Usage of the home theater would be 75% watching movies and 25% listening to music.

I would really appreciate if this system would be a good buy, any advise for my usage.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

-Mac

I am thinking about Onkyo HTSP904 Reconditioned 5.1-Channel Home Theater Package with DVD, iPod® Dock - $259.10 which is posted at the http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=827547&p=11432625&highlight=ONKYO#post11432625

Usage of the home theater would be 75% watching movies and 25% listening to music.
-Mac

Howdy! First thats a really nice TV you go. Love those Panny plasmas.

For that price, the Onkyo set is very hard to beat. I always recommend these box sets for people who want a decent system on the cheap. Take it from someone who has a $4000 fairly decent audio system :) The weakness in this set, actually in all the Onkyo sets, are the speakers. But the great thing about the Onkyo sets are that they give you a pretty good full blown receiver so you can swap out the speakers in the future.

The one this thing can't do is the HD audio formats or upconversion/upscaling to HDMI. I don't know how important that is to you. You won't get any of these features unless your willing to spend at the minimal $350 for a receiver right now. It does have the entry level Audyssey EQ which is great.

If your in the market, pull the trigger. You won't be disappointed.

Howdy! First thats a really nice TV you go. Love those Panny plasmas.

For that price, the Onkyo set is very hard to beat. I always recommend these box sets for people who want a decent system on the cheap. Take it from someone who has a $4000 fairly decent audio system :) The weakness in this set, actually in all the Onkyo sets, are the speakers. But the great thing about the Onkyo sets are that they give you a pretty good full blown receiver so you can swap out the speakers in the future.

The one this thing can't do is the HD audio formats or upconversion/upscaling to HDMI. I don't know how important that is to you. You won't get any of these features unless your willing to spend at the minimal $350 for a receiver right now. It does have the entry level Audyssey EQ which is great.

If your in the market, pull the trigger. You won't be disappointed.

Hi Axiom,

Thank for your response, I actually bought the HT-SP904.

The way I figured is that model of the receiver for this HT-R557 which is better than the TX-SR505 which itself is selling for 150$ at shop onkyo + HD-DVD Player is around 99$ + 55$ for the IPod Docking station ( all these prices are shoponkyo prices) = 300$ approx.

I am getting the whole system including the speakers for 260$ shipped. So actually I am getting the speakers free.

So, in future if I wanted to replace the speakers as you suggested. I can buy a new pair of speakers.

I really appreciate your feedback. This post has given me a lot of input.

Thanks for your response.

-Mac

Hi Axiom,

Thank for your response, I actually bought the HT-SP904.

The way I figured is that model of the receiver for this HT-R557 which is better than the TX-SR505 which itself is selling for 150$ at shop onkyo + HD-DVD Player is around 99$ + 55$ for the IPod Docking station ( all these prices are shoponkyo prices) = 300$ approx.

I am getting the whole system including the speakers for 260$ shipped. So actually I am getting the speakers free.

So, in future if I wanted to replace the speakers as you suggested. I can buy a new pair of speakers.

I really appreciate your feedback. This post has given me a lot of input.

Thanks for your response.

-Mac

Its a good, solid entry level receiver. Ideally, you can pair it up to any number of very good, fairly efficient speakers later on and get better sound. Don't expect to sell the speakers for too much, they aren't worth a lot.

The cheap Polk stuff we see on slick every so often like the R50s are OK but they aren't a huge step up from the Onkyo. Now the RTI series that were on sale here for $400 a pair were a pretty nice deal for a tower. At this price, you get into what I call "entry level audiophile" gear. Other great speakers at this price are the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170, Onix X-LS and X-SLS, Monitor Audio Bronze series, Paradigm Atom and Mini Monitor, various offerings from JBL, Infinity, Boston Acoustics, Klipsch, and so on. At this price point, you have a huge selection to choose from.

Hi, I am trying to put together my first home theater. I have the following pieces right now:

Sony HD LCD
Toshiba HD DVD A3 (I know it is out, but still a good DVD player :nod:
Cable TV

I watch TV 60%, Movie 30% and music 10% or less.

I am going to get a ONKYO TX-SR605 Receiver for its festures at a low price. Now the hard part is the speakers. I am having my eyes on these two set ups:
Athena LS series: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKLS500
Athena Ws series: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKWSPK6

Both of which are on clearance. Since I am in a budget around $600 for speakers (5.1) (after the $300 something Onkyo), these seem to fit the bill.

One of my friends even suggests me to go with WS-60 other than the WS-100 for LCR to lower the price for the WS set up. Will that be ok sound qulity wise?

As I said, this is my first try for a HT system, I have little knowledge about how good these speakers are, other than their look and price. Are these good choices for the price. Or, do you guys have better recommendation?

Thanks

Howdy,

That Athena sale is pretty nice. Both systems are a very good price, but if you want the one with better sound quality the LS is your choice. The WS I'm sure is nice but its a lifestyle system... its compromised for form factor. It has that slim look that fits homes better but the big cabinet and bigger woofers of the LS series make it the sound quality choice.

Keep in mind with the LS set, you'll need a sub. The W set has a sub but its only so-so. But the LS is a cheaper set, so I'd grab one of the Dayton subs from partsexpress.com or even better, wait for this sucker to come out:
Scamp-10 sub (http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12)

Thanks, Axiom. I will check out the subs you mention. I just find out that the WS speakers can be hanged onto the wall together with the LCD. Not sure I want to do that. But that looks cool though.


Howdy,

That Athena sale is pretty nice. Both systems are a very good price, but if you want the one with better sound quality the LS is your choice. The WS I'm sure is nice but its a lifestyle system... its compromised for form factor. It has that slim look that fits homes better but the big cabinet and bigger woofers of the LS series make it the sound quality choice.

Keep in mind with the LS set, you'll need a sub. The W set has a sub but its only so-so. But the LS is a cheaper set, so I'd grab one of the Dayton subs from partsexpress.com or even better, wait for this sucker to come out:
Scamp-10 sub (http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12)

There is a deal on the Onkyo HT-S5100 HTIB...looks to have upconverting and nice features on the receiver.....will put it with a Phillips 120hz 47" lcd.... mostly for TV and movies...

it is on sale for $379....with an Ipod dock.... 7.1...any pluses/minuses?

There is a deal on the Onkyo HT-S5100 HTIB...looks to have upconverting and nice features on the receiver.....will put it with a Phillips 120hz 47" lcd.... mostly for TV and movies...

it is on sale for $379....with an Ipod dock.... 7.1...any pluses/minuses?

I looked on the onkyo page at this guy.

No there is no upconversion. There is the low-end Audyssey setup which is nice. It also has a powered sub. Looks like a slightly nicer version of the older 800, just newer with similiar features.

I looked on the onkyo page at this guy.

No there is no upconversion. There is the low-end Audyssey setup which is nice. It also has a powered sub. Looks like a slightly nicer version of the older 800, just newer with similiar features.

Thanks...I am on the fence of getting a HTIB or buying a receiver and then a speaker package/separates..... im still using a fisher stereo and speakers from like 15 years ago...

I am just not sure if i should get the Onkyo 606 for the "no audio cable" ability...but i also dont want to just spend money for the sake of spending it...

Well realize if you go receiver + speakers, you'll be spending roughly $800 or so for a decent set. The estimate would be $400 for the 606 and then at the bare minimal $400 for a speaker set like some of the Polks or Athenas we get on slick.. and thats a big if.

Most of the other small satellite sets are negligibly better than the Onkyo sets, some might not be as good even. The Athena set that was $600 was a very nice deal but now your talking $1000. The $300-$400 onkyo sets are hard to beat value wise. Of course the Athena/Onkyo option is quite a few steps up from the Onkyo HTIB but that all depends on budget.

Well realize if you go receiver + speakers, you'll be spending roughly $800 or so for a decent set. The estimate would be $400 for the 606 and then at the bare minimal $400 for a speaker set like some of the Polks or Athenas we get on slick.. and thats a big if.

Most of the other small satellite sets are negligibly better than the Onkyo sets, some might not be as good even. The Athena set that was $600 was a very nice deal but now your talking $1000. The $300-$400 onkyo sets are hard to beat value wise. Of course the Athena/Onkyo option is quite a few steps up from the Onkyo HTIB but that all depends on budget.


Budget isnt a huge problem, but I dont want to spend for "audiophile" stuff.... at the same time, I dont want to end up replacing it all because of functionality issues....i know the SR606 is supposed to have all sorts of great features... i *think* the Phillips tv i am getting will do fine on signal...i have an HD dvd that will upconvert fine.... i was more worried about optical sound...I will run the TV..sometimes CD's or the wifes ipod (or my zune)... a Wii..a DVD player and maybe my Xbox 360 at times... I just dont like rebuying equipment cause i cheaped out originally but i am not up to speed on these home theaters and i am going bonkers reading everything..

I am setting up a home theatre in my new home (in process of being built).

I already have:

Onkyo 605 ($318 Amazon)

Infinity ERS HV250 (center) ($76 Ebay from Harman Kardon)
JBL HTi 6 (Front L & R) ($43 total Ebay from HK)
Infinity ERS 110IIS (Rear L & R) ($81 total Ebay from HK)

I have had the walls pre-wired for a 5.1 setup in my family room (~15x20x8; open to kitchen on one end). Planning to mount a 46" or 50" Panasonic Plasma (undecided on model) and still need to choose a subwoofer. Setup will be mostly used for TV and movies with some music (~15%).

I missed the stinking PSW125 deal today from amazon.

I would appreciate any advice you may have on choosing a sub.

I have been looking at Jr.com since I have some gift cards to use. I have been looking at the subs in the $200 to $300 range (link below).

http://www.jr.com/category/audio/speakers/subwoofers/sort-by-salePrice-0/

Does anyone have any experience with the smaller Yamaha subs? I had been looking at the Polk PSW110.

Sorry for the novel... Thanks in advance for any advice.

Dfg

I have been looking at Jr.com since I have some gift cards to use. I have been looking at the subs in the $200 to $300 range (link below).
Dfg

This is a little odd but I found an awesome used deal for you fi you don't mind that.

Register on this forum and buy this NOW:
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=33097

Easily THE best $400-$500 sub on the market.

Reviews here:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

Run, don't walk, and grab this thing NOW. SVS subs don't show up often. I can't think of a retail sub under $600 that could beat this thing.

Budget isnt a huge problem, but I dont want to spend for "audiophile" stuff.... at the same time, I dont want to end up replacing it all because of functionality issues....i know the SR606 is supposed to have all sorts of great features... i *think* the Phillips tv i am getting will do fine on signal...i have an HD dvd that will upconvert fine.... i was more worried about optical sound...I will run the TV..sometimes CD's or the wifes ipod (or my zune)... a Wii..a DVD player and maybe my Xbox 360 at times... I just dont like rebuying equipment cause i cheaped out originally but i am not up to speed on these home theaters and i am going bonkers reading everything..

Your like me, you want to future proof yourself. I'd guess you keep your gear for along time too which I also try to.

With that in mind, and not much budget constraint, you have to ask yourself what features you want.

Answer these questions and I'll magic 8-ball you an answer :)

1. Do you care about upconversion to HDMI? In other words, do you have old analog sources like s-video, component, etc you want to combine into 1 HDMI cable out to your TV?

2. Do you care about pre-out analogs to an onboard multi-channel amp? In other words, will you ever crave more power? If your like most people, the answer will be no. When I upgraded to my planar speakers, I definately wanted this.

3. Do you care about auto EQ setup systems like Audyssey? Some people hate it, most find it useful. I personally think its a great idea if done right.

Your like me, you want to future proof yourself. I'd guess you keep your gear for along time too which I also try to.

With that in mind, and not much budget constraint, you have to ask yourself what features you want.

Answer these questions and I'll magic 8-ball you an answer :)

1. Do you care about upconversion to HDMI? In other words, do you have old analog sources like s-video, component, etc you want to combine into 1 HDMI cable out to your TV?

Yes, I have Dsih Network (not HD yet) and a Wii that I will use..other than that, everything I will use is HDMI....though my video camera etc isnt hdmi, but i think they will go direct to the tv...

2. Do you care about pre-out analogs to an onboard multi-channel amp? In other words, will you ever crave more power? If your like most people, the answer will be no. When I upgraded to my planar speakers, I definately wanted this.

Nope, I just want good sound for movies and the occasional music listening

3. Do you care about auto EQ setup systems like Audyssey? Some people hate it, most find it useful. I personally think its a great idea if done right.

I think that would be really good to have as it is an oddly shaped room and I am actually trying not too have to turn stuff up super loud as the kids sleep sometimes when i want to watch something...i end up using subtitles so i dont miss what is going on...though i think i am going to try and set up two pair of wireless headphones as well



And thank you for being so persistent in helping

I think that would be really good to have as it is an oddly shaped room and I am actually trying not too have to turn stuff up super loud as the kids sleep sometimes when i want to watch something...i end up using subtitles so i dont miss what is going on...though i think i am going to try and set up two pair of wireless headphones as well



And thank you for being so persistent in helping

I started this thread to help people on slick with all this audio stuff that seems confusing. Just doing my part!

So, it sounds like to me you need:

Video upconvert or upscaling, don't need pre-outs for an amp, would like to have an Auto-Eq option.

The Onkyo 606 or 605 you see on slick every other day WOULD fit your bill. The only reservation I have about both these is it uses the cheaper Audyssey 2EQ as opposed to the MultiEQ XT in the 705 and up. Honestly I don't think this is a huge deal. If you can find the 606 for a good price I'd grab that instantly. The Audyssey dynamic volume EQ feature would also help if you want to turn down the volume.

Now Denon is releasing a new lineup you may want to wait out for. It should be out in a few months. The lineup rumours make it look like it could be a killer in terms of features.

Also, as a side note, a wierd shaped room isn't bad. In fact the worst room you can have for acoustics is a square, then 2nd worse a rectangle. These perfect parallel and 90 degree angles causes all sorts of reflections all over the place. This is why studios have so much sound treatments.

I am seeing the 606 for just over $400..i thought the 605 had less "hdmi in" ports and that was the big difference... then it is on to a speaker set up...

Thanks for the tip. It sounds like a great deal. But I'm sort of limited to JR.com due to budget constraints and GC availability.

Dfg

This is a little odd but I found an awesome used deal for you fi you don't mind that.

Register on this forum and buy this NOW:
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=33097

Easily THE best $400-$500 sub on the market.

Reviews here:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

Run, don't walk, and grab this thing NOW. SVS subs don't show up often. I can't think of a retail sub under $600 that could beat this thing.

I am seeing the 606 for just over $400..i thought the 605 had less "hdmi in" ports and that was the big difference... then it is on to a speaker set up...

Here are the differences advertised:


The TX-SR606 includes upgrades such as adding 1080i video upscaling, two more HDMI inputs to let the receiver now handle four total HDMI sources, Audyssey’s new Dynamic EQ loudness compensation technology, and the company’s proprietary Music Optimizer circuit.

Onkyo’s upscaling technology takes standard-def signals and brings them to 1080i, with Faroudja DCDi Edge technology helping eliminate video artifacts, the company says


You've already mentioned you don't need the upscaler but reports of the 605 actually degrading its component to HDMI have been reported on avsforum. That could be a problem. The 606's better Faroudja eliminates this.

Thanks for the tip. It sounds like a great deal. But I'm sort of limited to JR.com due to budget constraints and GC availability.

Dfg

No way to buy anywhere else? I'm looking at the subs and there's nothing that really stands out right now. Just very average subs for the price.

***Re-direct from a DEAD thread*** posted 6/8/2008 12:23PM
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11634302#post11634302

Sorry to bring an old thread back to life, but I had some questions on your suggestions stickycash. My anniversary has just rolled around and my wife of course wants to give me a watch, but I told her I'd rather finally get around to replacing those JBLs (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=728632&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.amazon.com/JBL-SCS-200-5-Theater-Speaker-Subwoofer/dp/B000GKDV7S/ref=sr_1_13/?tag2=slickdeals&tag=slickdeals&ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1191706461&sr=1-13) I'm using with my Onkyo TX-SR605, 40" Samsung 1080p LCD 4095, and PS3.

I'm not sure if I can replace all 5 of my current JBL Speakers (I ultimately would like a full blown 7.1 surround system in my master bedroom) where all this stuff is located, but at least I can get started on the front speakers.



This links is dead.. the 5 athenas are $150 each? If so, maybe I could grab just a pair. Do you have a new good link you suggest?



I'm pretty hesitant to try out any place that seems a lot cheaper, plus this site does seem a little shady just by a quick look. If I chose not to go with this site, but a more credible site, $460 a pair is definitely a little pricey.. I think I'd like to stay around the $300 mark for a pair



I'm a little confused on this part. Are there two or thre different suggestions here? (1) Dana 630s... (2) Klipsch Quintet III 5-speaker kit.. and (3) Paradigm's Atom monitors ?
I know the Audio Solutions store and can go check out the Paradigm Atom monitors.

If I can get the price lower than $180 -$190 a pair, perhaps I can buy at least 4 (they are sold in pairs? how would I do the extra center speaker I need then?). I'd probably ultimately get the last 2 speakers for the full 7.1 sound later. I'm not sure I even have any content right now that's 7.1 in my BD collection.

Also, ultimately, should I have the same speakers all around?

Congrats on your anniversary!
yes...the first link is dead...directly...but AA still have athenas on clearance (holding company was bought out by Klipsch). i do remember your room is very small...so check the dimensions on the LS-100 bookshelf (these are REAR ported, so they are NOT a good choice for placing on or very near a wall) and LSC-100 center... also available is the asp4100 10" sub. this brand and models have been the starting point for many enthusiasts... and has always favored well or above other entry level high quality speakers.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/searchprods.asp?searchstring=ATLS100+ATLS300+ATASIC6+ATASIC6ST+ATASP4100B+ATLS500%2E2+ATWS100+ATWS60+ATWS15+ATLSC50+ATLSC100+ATLS500&pagenumber=1&sort_on=number&sort_by=DESC&stype=all&view_all=

Definitely go listen to the Paradigm Atoms...the matching center speaker is the CC-190... also ask to hear a different brand that they have in the same price range. the key is to go listen to a number of quality brand speakers to see what your "taste" is like. just to note: paradigm recommends the ADP-190 for surround/rears... that should offer a little savings over buying 2 pair of Atoms. I agree... go with a 5.1 system for now...you can always add another matching pair of rear surround speakers later as your budget and 7.1 BD material increases.
Again there's other choices...both up and down scale. For that reason, i posted a reply in this helpful thread... others may have suggestions and since i have been out of the loop there may be some good speakers on sale recently thats slickdeals worthy.
Good Luck and do let us know how the auditioning goes!

some browsing results:

Infinity Primus P152 $70 EACH (Very Good speaker- glowing reviews...you could even get away with using 3 of these for a L C R)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542100069

Primus PC250 center $160
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548119089

Primus PC350 center $200 (the +$40 over the PC250 is well worth it)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548250912

Athena C.5 center $50!! (smaller speaker in size & bass drivers...but performs admirably. 5 of these for L C R & surrounds)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548300004
or
use a pair of WS15 for surrounds if space is tight
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATWS15&variation=BLK

Just sold my processor/pre-amp this week!

I'll be on the hunt too for a decent receiver with pre-amp outs or more likely just pick up another Emotiva processor. I like their stuff a lot.

Definitely go listen to the Paradigm Atoms...the matching center speaker is the CC-190... also ask to hear a different brand that they have in the same price range. the key is to go listen to a number of quality brand speakers to see what your "taste" is like. just to note: paradigm recommends the ADP-190 for surround/rears... that should offer a little savings over buying 2 pair of Atoms. I agree... go with a 5.1 system for now...you can always add another matching pair of rear surround speakers later as your budget and 7.1 BD material increases.
Again there's other choices...both up and down scale. For that reason, i posted a reply in this helpful thread... others may have suggestions and since i have been out of the loop there may be some good speakers on sale recently thats slickdeals worthy.
Good Luck and do let us know how the auditioning goes!

If your looking at $250-$300 for a pair of bookshelves, you owe it to yourself also to check out the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 and AV123 Onix X-LS encore. I'm a big believer of Internet direct sold gear. These two maybe the best value bookshelves on the market today in my humble opinion.

he Ascend sources their components from SEAS while Onix uses Peerless. Both uses well known high end drivers and excellent crossover parts. I own the X-LS. The woofer is a 6.5 version of the GR Research M-130 which is very well known in the DIY communit

some browsing results:

Infinity Primus P152 $70 EACH (Very Good speaker- glowing reviews...you could even get away with using 3 of these for a L C R)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542100069 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542100069)

Primus PC250 center $160
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548119089 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548119089)

Primus PC350 center $200 (the +$40 over the PC250 is well worth it)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548250912 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548250912)

Athena C.5 center $50!! (smaller speaker in size & bass drivers...but performs admirably. 5 of these for L C R & surrounds)
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548300004 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548300004)
or
use a pair of WS15 for surrounds if space is tight
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATWS15&variation=BLK (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATWS15&variation=BLK)

Thanks for the feedback stickycash.

I also wanted to add one more post:

dbpaddler had helped me out in a thread with a question on speaker wire. I shot him a PM recently and this was his response. I thought I'd post it on here:

That stuff is fine if you're running it around your room, under carpets and such. If you're going in wall, through the basement and such I'd go with this stuff:
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Ft-2-C-16-AWG-CL3-IN-WALL-SPEAKER-CABLE-WIRE-WHT_W0QQitemZ120270214858QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Ft-2-C-16-AWG-CL3-IN-WALL-SPEAKER-CABLE-WIRE-WHT_W0QQitemZ120270214858QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

You can also consider 14 gauge for longer runs. Bigger cable, easier throughput. Can always strip away a few wires at the ends if they don't fit through the speaker connectors. 16 gauge has always been fine for me.

Hey DB Paddler, you had given me advice in this thread:http://archive.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=7807066#post7807066

for speaker wire.

This had caught my eye:
http://cgi.ebay.com/50ft-FLAT-SPEAKER-WIRE-16-GUAGE-awg-16awg-16guage-cable_W0QQitemZ220243173416QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://cgi.ebay.com/50ft-FLAT-SPEAKER-WIRE-16-GUAGE-awg-16awg-16guage-cable_W0QQitemZ220243173416QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I was wondering if you thought it'd be a good deal? I was thinking of grabbing a few spools of it

If your looking at $250-$300 for a pair of bookshelves, you owe it to yourself also to check out the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 and AV123 Onix X-LS encore. I'm a big believer of Internet direct sold gear. These two maybe the best value bookshelves on the market today in my humble opinion.

he Ascend sources their components from SEAS while Onix uses Peerless. Both uses well known high end drivers and excellent crossover parts. I own the X-LS. The woofer is a 6.5 version of the GR Research M-130 which is very well known in the DIY communit

also good speakers... i'd add axiom m2 v2 as long as you dont have an overly "live" room. But Rizvi has a WAF (wifey acceptance factor) to contend with...and he has stated she will see that his coffin is constructed from the speaker enclosure material if they are too big :lmao:
so small and under $200/pair is his objective. probably the single biggest drawback to internet-only manufacturers is the difficulty "checking them out yourself"...even with a free shipping both ways policy...its just a hassle when all you want to do is give a quick listen... one alternative is if you live in a big city you can go to the manufacturer owner's thread over at avs and ask if anyone in your locale has the speakers and willing to let you have an in-their-home listen.

Thanks for the feedback stickycash.

I also wanted to add one more post:

dbpaddler had helped me out in a thread with a question on speaker wire. I shot him a PM recently and this was his response. I thought I'd post it on here:

You know, that JBL set may be able to match the Bose sets for quality... you never know.... I'd audition the Bose systems vs. yours and evaluate for yourself.

also good speakers... i'd add axiom m2 v2 as long as you dont have an overly "live" room. But Rizvi has a WAF (wifey acceptance factor) to contend with...and he has stated she will see that his coffin is constructed from the speaker enclosure material if they are too big :lmao:
so small and under $200/pair is his objective. probably the single biggest drawback to internet-only manufacturers is the difficulty "checking them out yourself"...even with a free shipping both ways policy...its just a hassle when all you want to do is give a quick listen... one alternative is if you live in a big city you can go to the manufacturer owner's thread over at avs and ask if anyone in your locale has the speakers and willing to let you have an in-their-home listen.

True enough. It really does help to be able to listen for yourself. As someone in a technical field, I do give credence to well engineered stuff and both the Ascend and Onix have superior cabinets and drivers to most of the retail outlets IMHO.

Heres a great example. I owned Paradigm in the past and I've opened up their guts Their particle wood cabinets in the old Monitor line that went for $400-$1200 a pair (Mini Monitor to Monitor 11) was pretty nasty. This added to the "boxy" sound aka cabinet resonance where the speaker isn't inert enough to not be a transducer in itself. Not to say the Paradigms were terrible, it does tell you something.

Of course listening is the ultimate judge. Specs and engineering is a nice indicator though.

If you are really intent on Bose style small, you should also check out Orb Audio who sells online as well. They are basically well-built knockoffs of Gallo Acoustics Nucleus line. Just google it.

You know, that JBL set may be able to match the Bose sets for quality... you never know.... I'd audition the Bose systems vs. yours and evaluate for yourself.

Hey axiom, I wasn't really considering the BOSE at all.. well, not since I first started dabbling in this, but everyone was pretty quick to turn me away from BOSE. In my sig, I say I want "bose lifestyle like" because this is our master bedroom, so the smaller, the better. Plus, if they look "pretty" my wife would be happy. Since the overall ruling is that BOSE's quality doesn't match what it costs, and my JBLs were a quick fix 5.1 speaker system, I probably wouldn't be too surprised if they sounded similar. But I can get much better sound than this right? hitting a target price of (preferred) $150 to (less preferred, but doable) $300 per pair.

But there are so many options being thrown around in this thread so my very first step is going to hit that audio video solutions store that stickycash had mentioned that's in Laurel with a printout of the latter part of this thread (and perhaps the earlier thread where stickycash first gave me advice - before we started discussing in this thread).

Also, I wanted to say that my master bedrooom was actually pretty big. It's 20ft by 24ft, but there's a small chunk of it (6ft x 7ft) missing from the walk in closet. I'm posting some pictures (please go easy on the mess and wires being run over the carpet and everywhere - hoping to do something about this soon, i'll post more on that later)

We have the 40" Samsung 1080p LCD 4095 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN-S4095D-1080p-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000GDEZLQ/ref=tag_tdp_sv_edpp_i) TV mounted on a Sanus TV stand (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCZ97Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) (behind the stand you'll notice the marks on the wall from when we tried to mount the TV before realizing the studs weren't where we needed them to be to wall mount - sucks, the TV's too low as a result - esp when we're laying on the bed). My current 4 JBL speakers are being held by these Atlantic Speaker stands (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000289DCG/103-2819928-4759044). Definitely in the back, I'd rather have the speakers wall mounted. In the front, I think I only want to wall my speakers if I can get the TV higher off the ground

Thanks for the level of in depth attention guys. I'm pretty new to speakers so I'm more taking advice here than giving. If any of you guys want to take advantage of the BlackBerry stuff we're pulling w/ Tmobile over on this thread (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11648901#post11648901) I can pay it forward. I know those deals inside and out.

No way to buy anywhere else? I'm looking at the subs and there's nothing that really stands out right now. Just very average subs for the price.

Unfortunately, no. I've got to keep it on the cheap for now... probably at the expense of some sound quality. My wife flipped at the price I paid for the Onkyo 605 ($318). I told her it was a great deal on an entry level rec'r. I had to show her my copy of Crutchfield to prove it to her. :)

I may try going with one of the small form factor subs. The Audio Source AST-SUB10 gets good reviews on Amazon. Anyone have experience with any of the mini subs?

Thanks again for your help!

Dfg

Well hey hey, my t-mobile contract is up for renewal.. I want a blackberry phone! I'll check out your thread!

20x24 is a good size room. My recommendation here is definitely at the least bookshelves in the front and thats what sticky has recommended as well. The small satellite systems like your JBL (or Bose) won't be able to fill up that room with decent sound.

Soundstaging and off-axis would suffer... it probably is now. The other problem is getting a decent sub as well.. but of course your wife would kill you for a big honking sub. Problem is most of the good small subs are pricey. You might end up with a mediocre small sub but it maybe good enough.

Those primus speakers look like a good deal. They match up well against the $250 Paradigm Atom and pretty small too.

Its too bad you can't get a larger speaker. These are quite a bargain right now:
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=33182


$299 + shipping for a pair of X-MTM floorstanders is pretty amazing.

Your not going to get alot more sound quality out of satellite type systems over your JBL.

Unfortunately, no. I've got to keep it on the cheap for now... probably at the expense of some sound quality. My wife flipped at the price I paid for the Onkyo 605 ($318). I told her it was a great deal on an entry level rec'r. I had to show her my copy of Crutchfield to prove it to her. :)

I may try going with one of the small form factor subs. The Audio Source AST-SUB10 gets good reviews on Amazon. Anyone have experience with any of the mini subs?

Thanks again for your help!

Dfg

Are you *sure* you have to do J&R?

This is my favorite cheapy sub:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

From J&R, the JBL Sub10 is on sale now and will be much better than the others. Its only $160 right now, half price the regular. Big amp and decent size driver. Actually, this one is probably better than the Dayton.

Are you *sure* you have to do J&R?

This is my favorite cheapy sub:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

From J&R, the JBL Sub10 is on sale now and will be much better than the others. Its only $160 right now, half price the regular. Big amp and decent size driver. Actually, this one is probably better than the Dayton.

Yeah, I have to. Would the Sub12 be worth the extra money? We mostly will watch movies and TV, but will occassionally use the system for music.

Do you have any opinions on the slim subwoofers?

Thanks again, axiiom.

Dfg

Anyone actually following this thread and looking for speakers, Polks are deals as of today again. Those R50s from Frys or the slightly better Monitor 50s from CC. Go get em. They are unbeatable for $120 a pair or $200 a pair.

Yeah, I have to. Would the Sub12 be worth the extra money? We mostly will watch movies and TV, but will occassionally use the system for music.

Do you have any opinions on the slim subwoofers?

Thanks again, axiiom.

Dfg

Looking at specs, they both hit 27hz, though doesn't specify down how many db@27hz. I'd spend the extra $40. You get double the amp size and a bigger driver.

If its a small room, the Sub10 would be fine but you can never have too much sub power :) I'll take an educated guess and say the Sub12 can output an extra 3 or 4db in the 40hz+ range due to the larger cone and bigger amp.

Anyone actually following this thread and looking for speakers, Polks are deals as of today again. Those R50s from Frys or the slightly better Monitor 50s from CC. Go get em. They are unbeatable for $120 a pair or $200 a pair.

oh yeah? good recommendations for me?

jagoodie had shot me this PM (prob after seeing my signature in another thread):

For the bedroom, I recomend: Logitech Z-5500 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&sku=A0405790&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=566643)

They beat just about anything Bose makes, with the exception of the size of the sub.. Which is large.Any thoughts? I told him I was going to paste this to this audio thread and gave him the link.

For those of you that are unfamiliar with this set from Logitech, I can tell you from personal experience, they rock. You don't need to take my word for it either.. Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-THX-Certified-505-Watt-Digital-Surround/dp/B0002WPSBC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213193769&sr=8-1)

Powerful sub, and the head unit eliminates the need for a separate amplifier for most people. Just plug your TV/DVD/iPod into the volume control unit. Pretty slick. I just ordered a set for $180 shipped from Dell - they go on sale at Dell and Amazon frequently. Their is a lot of speculation that Logitech is coming out with an updated version soon, though I don't know what needs updating.

oh yeah? good recommendations for me?

Actually, they are probably too big for you! For a dedicated theater, they are a great starter set.

iamgoodie had shot me this PM (prob after seeing my signature in another thread):



Any thoughts? I told him I was going to paste this to this audio thread and gave him the link.

Honestly, they are probably a step back from your JBL set. Logitechs are solid and they are pretty good in the computer speaker world. The highs tend to sizzle and the bass muddy IMO. Some of the better Altec and Cambridge sets are comparable to some of the lower end HTIB like your JBL set. The Onkyo sets, which are pretty ugly, are probably the best values under $400 (on sale).

Again this is all subjective... the higher up you go in audio, the more refinement and accuracy you get. Go to your local BB or CC and listen to a set of computer speakers. Then go into their speaker room and ask to listen to a set of good bookshelf speakers in the $300+ range and judge for yourself.

I'm not sure if you're looking for a complete surround set for $300 or a pair of speakers for $300? Could you clarify?

Actually, they are probably too big for you! For a dedicated theater, they are a great starter set.

In that case, we'll hold off on those..

Honestly, they are probably a step back from your JBL set. Logitechs are solid and they are pretty good in the computer speaker world. The highs tend to sizzle and the bass muddy IMO. Some of the better Altec and Cambridge sets are comparable to some of the lower end HTIB like your JBL set. The Onkyo sets, which are pretty ugly, are probably the best values under $400 (on sale).

Again this is all subjective... the higher up you go in audio, the more refinement and accuracy you get. Go to your local BB or CC and listen to a set of computer speakers. Then go into their speaker room and ask to listen to a set of good bookshelf speakers in the $300+ range and judge for yourself.

I'm not sure if you're looking for a complete surround set for $300 or a pair of speakers for $300? Could you clarify?

There's no price limit. I'm up for gradually changing all my speakers around. The most important ones I should do first are the front two right?

You had given me this post:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11657030#post11657030

And between that post and the few posts above it, I think I know what I need to go and check out this weekend. I'm definitely planning on hitting that Audio Video Solutions store that StickyCash had mentioned. I also want to see if I can get anyone Audio Video solutions to come and hide the wires that I have running on the floor (both the speaker wires - the skinny black ones which came with my JBLs - and the long white cable wire I have running across the room).

that's why I had posted the question on the speaker wires a few posts above also - with the suggestion from dbpaddler.

To help you out with wiring.

If you are running INTO the wall as in punching holes through the sheetrock the stuff dbpaddler gave you is fine. What gives it away is the CL3 rating. This is a fire code rating. Not that speaker cable has enough power to really start any fire but always good to follow code for insurance reasons. Basically any CL3 rated speaker wire is great for through wall runs.

Now if your a lazy ass like me and just want to hide wiring, the flat stuff in that same post you linked to is great. I run it through my baseboard heater and up the wall which is white so its hard to notice.

Here's a quick and easy guide to gauges you need:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-c9LzK2h5T01/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

Does the Audio Video Solutions store have a web site? I'd be interested to see what lines they carry and get you some quick hints to get you going.

Rizvi1, the other alternative I was talking about:

http://www.orbaudio.com/

http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/2297/orb-audio-classic-two-review

[/URL]...

Does the Audio Video Solutions store have a web site? I'd be interested to see what lines they carry and get you some quick hints to get you going.

Hey axiom, here's their website. Not sure how good their site is though in terms of being correct with their inventory:
[url]http://www.avsofmd.com/ (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-c9LzK2h5T01/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html)

Rizvi1, the other alternative I was talking about:

http://www.orbaudio.com/ (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.orbaudio.com/)

http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/2297/orb-audio-classic-two-review (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/2297/orb-audio-classic-two-review)

wow, these are interesting. As rears, I could get them in white to blend with the walls. If I ultimately do a 7.1 system, that'd be 4 speakers towards the back.

As front speakers, I have to figure out what I'm going to do because my stupid TV can't get mounted on that wall you see in the picture because of where the stud is located. So as a result, I will always need a Stand. I would ultimately like to make my TV higher (would love a stand that had an adjustable height) and if I was able to get that, maybe I could mount white speakers on or in the wall too.

That's all down the road I Think though. For right now, I'd like to just replace out my speakers and go from there.

I was curious as to in which post of yours did you mention this "alternative"? And what do you mean when you say "alternative"?

I was curious as to in which post of yours did you mention this "alternative"? And what do you mean when you say "alternative"?

For small Bose type systems, these are pretty nice. They are knockoffs of Anthony Gallo Nucleus speakers which you can also buy.. for a lot more money.

Hey axiom, here's their website. Not sure how good their site is though in terms of being correct with their inventory:
http://www.avsofmd.com/

They have a very nice lineup. There's some very nice mid to high end gear there for sure.

Bring an Ipod or CDs or whatever you have with YOUR music. Here are some speakers in no particular order you want to checkout assuming they have them and some comments about each one:

Paradigm Atom v5, Paradigm Mini v5, both in the $250-$350 range I believe
I've owned Paradigm in the past, solidly built, traditional speaker design. Voiced brighter than neutral but not klipsch bright. 'digms go great with hard music and well with other stuffed too.. very balanced.

Kef IQ1, IQ3 - not sure on pricing
Less bright than the Paradigms, uses a coax tweeter design pioneered by Tannoy for less phase/lobing errors. They do well with hard stuff too and in my opinion slightly better than the Paradigms for jazz/classical.

Various Klipsch bookshelves in the price range
Well known american company.. known for being super-bright in the treble due to the horns used. This is your black and death metal speaker.

Mirage Omnisats and Nanosats
One of the few omnidirectional tweeters out there. A lot of people like their "wall of sound". In my opinion the Mirages excel for movies over music.

You should note what you like and dislike about each one. Some of the stuff to pay attention to:
1. how realistic it sounds to you - duh!
2. whether or not the treble is too much or too little - remember in untreated room, treble will get hotter
3. Is the bass tight or loose and boomy? Like the guys blasting rap out their cars, its deep, flabby and cheap. Good bass goes deep and stays tight
4. Midrange - the heart of music, this is where a lot of the best speakers put their money. a good midrange makes vocals and acoustic instruments sound right.

That should get you started. With this information in mind, you have an idea of what other brands out there you will most likely enjoy.

I know this isn't the place really to post this, but if anyone is interested in some large floorstanding speakers in the NJ/NYC area, I'm selling a used pair at a good price. TThere's some veneer smudging on the top of 1 and 2 corners are pushed in from a move but its all not that noticeable honestly.

hey are Monitor Audio Bronze BR6s. Excellent speakers in the under $1k category and will fill up a big room easy. The matching center is $300 I think. I'm trying to get $500 from em they are $8-900 new, but i'll discount since everyone here is looking for a slick deal!

I'm looking for an inexpensive sound solution. All I have now is a 52 inch LCD Samsung LN52A550 and PS3. No additional receiver or speakers. I would like to spend < $300. < $200 would be even better. Preferable at amazon since I have some gc there.

Any advice?

I am in the process of building a headphone amp and looking for a short decent quality 1/8" to 1/8" inter connect cable. I want something that is about 12 inches long so I dont have a ton of cable running all over my desk. I want a good quality cable but I dont need to spend a fortune. Does anyone have any ideas on where I could get something like this?

I'm looking for an inexpensive sound solution. All I have now is a 52 inch LCD Samsung LN52A550 and PS3. No additional receiver or speakers. I would like to spend < $300. < $200 would be even better. Preferable at amazon since I have some gc there.

Any advice?

hmm... a receiver AND speakers all in 1 would probably mean you have to get a cheap home theater in box. I had done that for my downstairs family room back in Spring 2005 - I got a panasonic all in one home theater system open box from best buy to go with my 40" Sony Wega XBR. But for my PS3 & 40" Samsung 1080p LCD combination, I'm trying to do it right and have gotten the entry level Onkyo TX-SR605 with a cheapo JBL surround system set, which I am trying to replace with new speakers gradually. Going my new route though meant I started off with just $350ish for the receiver alone.

I'm looking for an inexpensive sound solution. All I have now is a 52 inch LCD Samsung LN52A550 and PS3. No additional receiver or speakers. I would like to spend < $300. < $200 would be even better. Preferable at amazon since I have some gc there.

Any advice?

That would be my usual recommendation of a Onkyo set. Wait for a sale to show up on slick. They aren't exactly pretty but it can hold its hold and my favorite budget sets. Don't get the cheaper sets... make sure to get one with a powered sub.

I am in the process of building a headphone amp and looking for a short decent quality 1/8" to 1/8" inter connect cable. I want something that is about 12 inches long so I dont have a ton of cable running all over my desk. I want a good quality cable but I dont need to spend a fortune. Does anyone have any ideas on where I could get something like this?

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=56&ObjectGroup_ID=857

That what your looking for? :)

That would be my usual recommendation of a Onkyo set. Wait for a sale to show up on slick. They aren't exactly pretty but it can hold its hold and my favorite budget sets. Don't get the cheaper sets... make sure to get one with a powered sub.

Thanks. Can you give me an example of that Onkyo set that goes on sale?

I'm thinking of getting a set of the Paradigm Atom Monitors. Question: How do the older versions (i.e. v.3 and v.4) compare with the current model (v.5)? Is there a noticeable difference? If I can get a cheap price on a older version, is it worth it?

V5 has removable grills held on by magnets (nice touch). Older versions didn't have removable grills. They retail a few dollars more, but that alone makes it worth it. The Atoms have always had good reviews (V3, V4). I sold them back in V2 days, and they were a nice budget speaker. You probably wouldn't be rushing off to get a subwoofer (though you'll definitely need one for movies), but they actually should have decent extension down to about 50hz which isn't too shabby for a woofer of its size.

V5 is a real nice upgrade in general especially considering the marginal price increase. Outside of the grills you have an improved cabinet, drivers and crossovers. V5 weighs about twice as much as V3 and is a little deeper. The cabinets are better braced and more rigid. The crossovers blend the woofer and tweeter better. For what they cost I wouldn't go with an earlier version to save a few bucks if it was for my main room.

I'm thinking of getting a set of the Paradigm Atom Monitors. Question: How do the older versions (i.e. v.3 and v.4) compare with the current model (v.5)? Is there a noticeable difference? If I can get a cheap price on a older version, is it worth it?

If you're looking for cheap and all in one, others are right with Onkyo.

Onkyo HTSR800 for $300. Has HDMI pass through (no upconversion). (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTSR800/ONKYO/HT-SR800-Receiver-Speakers-HDMI-Ipod-XM-Sirius/1.html)

Onkyo HTSR600 on the cheap for $160. As basic as you get for 5.1. (http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTSR600/ONKYO/HT-SR600-5.1-650watt-Receiver-Speaker-Package/1.html)

I'm looking for an inexpensive sound solution. All I have now is a 52 inch LCD Samsung LN52A550 and PS3. No additional receiver or speakers. I would like to spend < $300. < $200 would be even better. Preferable at amazon since I have some gc there.

Any advice?

Thanks so much! The V3s that I'm looking at are being sold by someone local who is moving overseas, so I can (hopefully) get them for less than half the price of the V5s. I'd love to get the V5s, but am about to start grad school and can't really justify spending $300 on speakers (even though I know that's nothing for good speakers).

V5 has removable grills held on by magnets (nice touch). Older versions didn't have removable grills. They retail a few dollars more, but that alone makes it worth it. The Atoms have always had good reviews (V3, V4). I sold them back in V2 days, and they were a nice budget speaker. You probably wouldn't be rushing off to get a subwoofer (though you'll definitely need one for movies), but they actually should have decent extension down to about 50hz which isn't too shabby for a woofer of its size.

V5 is a real nice upgrade in general especially considering the marginal price increase. Outside of the grills you have an improved cabinet, drivers and crossovers. V5 weighs about twice as much as V3 and is a little deeper. The cabinets are better braced and more rigid. The crossovers blend the woofer and tweeter better. For what they cost I wouldn't go with an earlier version to save a few bucks if it was for my main room.

Hello again all


I just bought the Onkyo 606 receiver for $325 after MS and ebay deal....SO i need to get speakers.... again I am faced with buying separates or a "system"... i would go 7.1 or 5.1 at this point (cause i could add 2 more later) anyone know of a good deal on nice speakers? I could still get another ebay deal...looking to spend around $500-700 on the speakers and sub....

Hello again all


I just bought the Onkyo 606 receiver for $325 after MS and ebay deal....SO i need to get speakers.... again I am faced with buying separates or a "system"... i would go 7.1 or 5.1 at this point (cause i could add 2 more later) anyone know of a good deal on nice speakers? I could still get another ebay deal...looking to spend around $500-700 on the speakers and sub....


I would build a system around the Polk floorstanders that show up on here like these from last week:
Polk R50 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=158271&t=842903)

Or these:

Polk Monitor 50 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=158271&t=800213)

This will be about $150-$210 already.

Buy the matching center and two bookshelf rears plus a good $150-$200 subwoofer and you're in business.

Thanks so much! The V3s that I'm looking at are being sold by someone local who is moving overseas, so I can (hopefully) get them for less than half the price of the V5s. I'd love to get the V5s, but am about to start grad school and can't really justify spending $300 on speakers (even though I know that's nothing for good speakers).

If you can swing em for $150 that would be great.

In the $200-$300 range, I'd personally prefer some other brands in the "entry level hi bookshelf" category like the Monitor Audio BR2, PSB Image B15, Onix X-LS (my fave and I own them), Kef IQ1, or Aperion Intimus.

I did prefer the Atom over the B&W 600 bookshelf, JBL L series bookshelf, and JBL Beta bookshelf however.

For $250, give me the ones I mentioned. For $150, thats a great price. Again its personal preference.

I would build a system around the Polk floorstanders that show up on here like these from last week:
Polk R50 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=158271&t=842903)

Or these:

Polk Monitor 50 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=158271&t=800213)

This will be about $150-$210 already.

Buy the matching center and two bookshelf rears plus a good $150-$200 subwoofer and you're in business.

So would you do the cs1 for the center and then I cant find a monitor series that wall/ceiling mounts (which i have to do with the rears i think....)

So would you do the cs1 for the center and then I cant find a monitor series that wall/ceiling mounts (which i have to do with the rears i think....)

The center should always match the floorstanders. So if you get a deal on the R50s, get the CSR center. If you get the Monitor 50s, get the CS1 or CS2.

You'll need a little patience on this one. These Polk deals show up on slick a few times a year though.

Rears honestly you don't have to match in my opinion. Buy something decent for a good price, Polk preferably, but I've had different brands in the rear even with no problem. I use wallmounts. Hell, you can even do in-wall or ceiling speakers if your handy.

If your impatient, here's a decent deal on a sub with free shipping:
http://www.jr.com/jbl/pe/JBL_VENSUB12/

When you buy a sub, you don't have to match at all. Just get whatever slick price you can get in your price range.

At the moment, I am thinking of the Monitor 50's, a CS1, some type of rears, and the BIC H100 sub......

At the moment, I am thinking of the Monitor 50's, a CS1, some type of rears, and the BIC H100 sub......

If you can stretch the budget a little, you can buy the ugly but awesome performing Elemental Designs A2-300 thats 70lbs. They go for about $300 plus s/h.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=56&ObjectGroup_ID=857

That what your looking for? :)

Yes that might just work, Thanks

Well out of the ebay deal, I got an Onkyo 606 receiver, a pair of monitor 50's and a BIC h100 sub for $750 delivered....
just gotta get the cs2 (decided to get the bigger/better one than the cs1) and 2 or 4 rears, speaker wire and banana plugs (and a nice surge protector)

I am thinking of in ceiling speakers since ill be up there to run speaker wire already....anyhting to look out for on those?

For anyone considering a Bose, I found dbpaddler's post over here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11768174#post11768174) to be pretty detailed and informative on why BOSE speakers really aren't worth the money they charge. I thought I'd link this over here.

For anyone considering a Bose, I found dbpaddler's post over here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11768174#post11768174) to be pretty detailed and informative on why BOSE speakers really aren't worth the money they charge. I thought I'd link this over here.

I know all about Bose .. those of us "in the know" have a pretty good idea why, especially the Acoustimass/Lifestyle line, they suck. Problem is people jump on the "bose suxx0rs" bandwagon and make us who love audio gear look retarded. So I've stopped preaching and gently point them to other gear. Hey, if they still buy Bose, whatever, I've said my peace and that's all I can do.

I can point them to that article on intellexual.net thats been around forever. I can go on about a crossover-less cube with 2 paper 2" drivers with piss-poor frequency response. I can explain about how these are setup ON PURPOSE to create first order reflections and why that's really bad. I can point out how that "bass module" isn't even a real sub but a sub-standard bandpass design that can't hit below 50hz and forced to play to near 200hz. Audio research points to anything above 120hz to be directional. Know those Klipsch Promedia computer speakers that go for about $200? They sound better than the $2000+ Bose systems and engineered correctly with a 8" sub driver and tweeters in the satellites. Thats pretty sad.

But does it matter? Nope.. cause people will buy it anyway. Then others will pile on and tell them how it sucks not really knowing why. Sorry, I'm done with my Bose-bashing bashing rant :)

Well out of the ebay deal, I got an Onkyo 606 receiver, a pair of monitor 50's and a BIC h100 sub for $750 delivered....
just gotta get the cs2 (decided to get the bigger/better one than the cs1) and 2 or 4 rears, speaker wire and banana plugs (and a nice surge protector)

I am thinking of in ceiling speakers since ill be up there to run speaker wire already....anyhting to look out for on those?

Surge protector wise, the minimal ones I recommend are the Tripplite Isobars which are solid MOV based protectors. Nothing fancy but well built. I personally have a Furman PL8 and looking into isolation transformer based solutions.

Make sure if you going in wall to get CL3 rated wire for fire code issues. 14 or 16 guage would be prefered, 14 especially if your going over 80 ft each run.

Here is a nice cheap in-ceiling or in-wall solution:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837

I'd go for the 8" ones. I haven't heard them but the photos are pretty spiffy. Quality material on the woofer, air core inductors in the crossover.. hey you can't go wrong for the price.

I wish i could give ya more rep already.....

So far i have spent $822 (incl tax and shipping) for:
Onkyo 606 (325)
2 Polk Monitor 50's (200)
BIC H100 sub (205)
Polk CS2 (92)
$100 for 4 ceilng speakers and about another $250 for surge/wire/banana plugs and for under $1200 i think i will have a very nice 7.1 system....I am hugely excited!!

Also, does round or square matter on the ceiling speakers? It says celing are round and wall are rectangle, but i kinda wanted the square....

I wish i could give ya more rep already.....

So far i have spent $822 (incl tax and shipping) for:
Onkyo 606 (325)
2 Polk Monitor 50's (200)
BIC H100 sub (205)
Polk CS2 (92)
$100 for 4 ceilng speakers and about another $250 for surge/wire/banana plugs and for under $1200 i think i will have a very nice 7.1 system....I am hugely excited!!

Also, does round or square matter on the ceiling speakers? It says celing are round and wall are rectangle, but i kinda wanted the square....

I always love it when someone puts together a new audio system. Glad to be of service. Post how you like it once you get it up and running. Those Polks will sound terrific, I've heard them before.

The only issue that could occur with the square ones is whether the tweeter can pivot enough so it points at your sofa/sitting area. Maybe you can contact monoprice and ask them. Otherwise, I don't see any difference.

Quiet around these parts lately.... there was some Polk and Infinity deals yesterday.. some great speakers out there on the cheap. Me, I'm rocking out to my Logitech Audiostation for now. My bedroom receiver is on temp duty in the living room till I get a new processor/preamp.

I want to make sure you guys see this AV123 thread (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=1193&t=855044)

High quality stuff, great prices.

I want to make sure you guys see this AV123 thread (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=1193&t=855044)

High quality stuff, great prices.

Posted on there already.... yup.. I'm a av123 fan big time!

I hope alot of folks got on the av123 sale. Its a great intro to high end audio.

OK, I am back as I acquire more and more to the system.....

IN HAND I have
Philips 120hz HDTV 1080p
Onkyo 606 receiver
BIC H100 powered sub
2 Polk Monitor 50's
Polk CS2 center channel
Toshiba HD DVD (for upscaling)

WHAT I STILL NEED IS (ordering from monoprice)
Banana plugs (14 pair for the 7 speakers and connections at receiver)
Speaker wire 14 AWG CL2
Wii component cable
4 RG6 coax connector cables (for antana and hub for Dish out to other tv;s and original roof mount antannae that seems to be getting HD channels)
4 8" round in ceiling speakers

WHAT I AM NOT SURE ABOUT
RCA connector for subwoofer-- is it just a digital audio connector?
Surge protector/line conditioner (want it to look "cool" if it is seen..if not, it can sit behind in alcove)
AM and FM antenna for radio in SR606
Will I "always" have to have receiver on when using TV if all is hooked through it or can i watch tv on its own?
Will i only use the one hdmi input on the tv now since i should be able to run Wii, DVD, and dish through receiver? and how would you handle the old school roof antenna?

Thanks again, this has been a huge help!

OK, I am back as I acquire more and more to the system.....

IN HAND I have
Philips 120hz HDTV 1080p
Onkyo 606 receiver
BIC H100 powered sub
2 Polk Monitor 50's
Polk CS2 center channel
Toshiba HD DVD (for upscaling)

WHAT I STILL NEED IS (ordering from monoprice)
Banana plugs (14 pair for the 7 speakers and connections at receiver)
Speaker wire 14 AWG CL2
Wii component cable
4 RG6 coax connector cables (for antana and hub for Dish out to other tv;s and original roof mount antannae that seems to be getting HD channels)
4 8" round in ceiling speakers

WHAT I AM NOT SURE ABOUT
RCA connector for subwoofer-- is it just a digital audio connector?
Surge protector/line conditioner (want it to look "cool" if it is seen..if not, it can sit behind in alcove)
AM and FM antenna for radio in SR606
Will I "always" have to have receiver on when using TV if all is hooked through it or can i watch tv on its own?
Will i only use the one hdmi input on the tv now since i should be able to run Wii, DVD, and dish through receiver? and how would you handle the old school roof antenna?

Thanks again, this has been a huge help!

Sounds like your already enjoying 2-channel audio at least! Those Monitor 50s are an unbeatable bargain.

Monoprice should have the subwoofer cables. They are basically a mono-RCA cable that you can buy anywhere.. but if you haven't ordered from them yet just tack it on.

I don't know your surge protector budget. But if you are in the $75-$100 range, the Belkin PureAV PF30 is up your ally, looks good, and they are good protection too.

The 606 should come with antennas. I honestly don't know how to hook up a roof antenna to it.. I do know they are pretty simple connections on the back.. the AM is 2 wires and the FM is just a coax in many receivers. Experiment is the only thing I can say.

I have the same problem as you, sometimes I just want the crappy TV speakers and watch TV. I don't have any receiver right now since I sold my Emotiva LMC-1 processor. My solution will probably to hook up HDMI to the receiver and component/RCA to the TV. Another idea is the little $15 HDMI splitter on monoprice. May or may not work however, HDMI is a little finicky.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

And to your last question, yes, just buy a bunch of HDMI cables from monoprice and hook em all up to the receiver and let it do the switching. Then the HDMI OUT from the Onkyo goes to the TV. But if you want to be the guinea pig for that HDMI splitter, you'd do:

cable box -> splitter -> Onkyo and TV

If it actually works out, to watch TV without the receiver,you'd switch the TV input to the other HDMI port.

Good luck!

Sounds like your already enjoying 2-channel audio at least! Those Monitor 50s are an unbeatable bargain.

Monoprice should have the subwoofer cables. They are basically a mono-RCA cable that you can buy anywhere.. but if you haven't ordered from them yet just tack it on.

I don't know your surge protector budget. But if you are in the $75-$100 range, the Belkin PureAV PF30 is up your ally, looks good, and they are good protection too.

The 606 should come with antennas. I honestly don't know how to hook up a roof antenna to it.. I do know they are pretty simple connections on the back.. the AM is 2 wires and the FM is just a coax in many receivers. Experiment is the only thing I can say.

I have the same problem as you, sometimes I just want the crappy TV speakers and watch TV. I don't have any receiver right now since I sold my Emotiva LMC-1 processor. My solution will probably to hook up HDMI to the receiver and component/RCA to the TV. Another idea is the little $15 HDMI splitter on monoprice. May or may not work however, HDMI is a little finicky.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

And to your last question, yes, just buy a bunch of HDMI cables from monoprice and hook em all up to the receiver and let it do the switching. Then the HDMI OUT from the Onkyo goes to the TV. But if you want to be the guinea pig for that HDMI splitter, you'd do:

cable box -> splitter -> Onkyo and TV

If it actually works out, to watch TV without the receiver,you'd switch the TV input to the other HDMI port.

Good luck!

I will be a guinea pig..no problem....


I am looking at the APC H10 or H15 right now...they are in the $150-220 range..... i just dont want to go too cheap on the line conditioner after getting great deals on the rest of it.... and i hope i have given enough rep to others to give you more...you give great non-condescending advice!

I will be a guinea pig..no problem....


I am looking at the APC H10 or H15 right now...they are in the $150-220 range..... i just dont want to go too cheap on the line conditioner after getting great deals on the rest of it.... and i hope i have given enough rep to others to give you more...you give great non-condescending advice!

Cool, I usually recommend expensive solutions to protect your stuff but most people aren't willing to go beyond your standard surge protectors. Hey you paid a lot for your big TV, your heavy receiver, your big speakers. Gotta protect em!

In that range, those APC H10s are sweet and I've oogled over them a few times but never pulled a trigger. I've seesawed between the H series, the Belkin P60 ($200-$250), and the Monster HTS-3600mkII. Power protection is one of those things that I can't find any conclusive lab testing on. I'd recommend one or the other depending on my mood I think! The H10 though is a voltage stabilizer which gives it an advantage similiar to the Monster AVS series which are mucho $$.

What I use for my humble setup are actually Furman PL-8 series II. I need another protector for my TV so I'm sort of in the market. Right now I have a cheapy APC strip that's worth $60. I have to figure out what to do also.

Don't think you will go wrong with the APC H. Good luck! Give us a report on how those Monitor 50s are.

I definitely will....I am going to choose between the H10 and a Belkin P30 or the Belkin Ap30800fc10-blk Pureav" Home Theater Battery Backup With Avr Technology ..just having a bit of anxiety as some people say one is better than the other....dang it!

I am hoping to have it all up and running with a wekk or two...waiting for stuff to come in and i dont want to set up the receiver until I have it all installed....I ampretty stoked..think the surge/conditioner is the last thing to buy!!!

I definitely will....I am going to choose between the H10 and a Belkin P30 or the Belkin Ap30800fc10-blk Pureav" Home Theater Battery Backup With Avr Technology ..just having a bit of anxiety as some people say one is better than the other....dang it!

I am hoping to have it all up and running with a wekk or two...waiting for stuff to come in and i dont want to set up the receiver until I have it all installed....I ampretty stoked..think the surge/conditioner is the last thing to buy!!!

I'd probably avoid the Belkin UPS thing. I've looked at that, ecost has them pretty cheap, but it looks to me like a computer UPS with a few extra jacks. Doesn't seem to have the EMI or RFI filtering the PF series has and probably a few inline MOVs for surge protection.

That leaves the P30 and the H10. The H10 is definately better cause of the voltage stabilizer. But the PF30 is a pretty slamming value at $75 if you search around for it. Its gotten decent "reviews" and seems to be a good unit. Belkin has the same problem Monster does giving retarded marketing names for their technologies like "PurePower 3(tm)". Its a good unit but hard to get around the hype to figure out what its really doing. The APC can compensate for line sags though.

Here's another deal to make your choices even tougher, i know we can't link to ebay stuff on here. Do an ebay search for "monster 3600" though and there should be one there for 150 plus shipping.

Axiom,

Thanks for your advice and for urging me to look elsewhere for my sub purchase. After much research, I just pulled the trigger on the eD a3-250. I could have gotten the a2-300 for less, but it wouldn't fit where I would like it to go.

Thanks again!

Dfg

Axiom,

Thanks for your advice and for urging me to look elsewhere for my sub purchase. After much research, I just pulled the trigger on the eD a3-250. I could have gotten the a2-300 for less, but it wouldn't fit where I would like it to go.

Thanks again!

Dfg

Hey didn't know you could swing that budget! eD is definately up there. Along with their fellow internet direct competitors in subs (av123,SVS,Hsu,Epik), they are all the best value in subs easy.

OMG.... i just scored an APC H15 for $215 shipped.... i searched an auction site (big one that we cant link to) for APC h15 and found the silver one for $225 OBO so i offered $215 and it was accepted...it looks like he has 9 left.....

WOO HOO

Nice!

I see those.. man.. thats tempting to buy.... though I'm in the running for another piece of surge protection gear thats a bit cheaper than the APC but very interesting as well. I'll see how it performs when it arrives.

Hey, I recently got a Samsung LNT5271F 52-inch 1080p TV. I also have a PS3, 360, and a Wii. I don't have the HDMI 360, though I'm trying to sell my old one so I could have an excuse to get one of the newer HDMI ones. I'll get a HD satelite/cable box soon so we're looking at upwards of 3 component inputs and/or 2 HDMI inputs in total.

So now I'm looking for a surround sound system. The room I'm looking to put it in is about 15' by 18' with one of the walls being mostly open. I'd like to get a system + receiver for <$500 if possible. But I'd be able to stretch the budget up to $750 if necessary. I'd like to do this right so any suggestions?

The Onkyo 606 comes up all the time and is probably your best bet if you want it now. It has 4 HDMI in plus a good number of component. It also upconverts to HDMI so you can run everything into the receiver and only have 1 HDMI cable to the TV.

However Denon's new line is slowly trickling out and I'd suggest you wait and see how they're going to be priced. They should be competitive.

The Onkyo 606 comes up all the time and is probably your best bet if you want it now. It has 4 HDMI in plus a good number of component. It also upconverts to HDMI so you can run everything into the receiver and only have 1 HDMI cable to the TV.

However Denon's new line is slowly trickling out and I'd suggest you wait and see how they're going to be priced. They should be competitive.
So the Onkyo (Denon maybe?) should be the receiver in my system? That leaves me about 300 or so for the actual speakers. Any suggestions on those?

So the Onkyo (Denon maybe?) should be the receiver in my system? That leaves me about 300 or so for the actual speakers. Any suggestions on those?

I usually advocate more money towards speakers over receiver but in your case since you have to worry about so many sources, you'll need this. Yes the Onkyo can do everything you need right now and they show up on slick all the time.

Speaker wise, $300 is tough. First I'd get the pair of Polk R50s or Monitor 50s and the matching center. You can get away with the R300s but they aren't nearly as good as the other 2. Then some cheap rears of whatever brand. That pretty much uses your budget up and you have no sub.

I'm trying to decide between a pair of AV123 X-LS Encores for around $230 shipped or a pair of Polk Rti8s for $250 locally off craigslist. Anyone offer any insight between the two?

well the original XL-S's were fairly well reviewed by owners and pros alike if I remember correctly. I think the newer Encores offer an upgraded tweeter and crossover which should only make them a little better. Think you also get a 30 day trial with them so they're definitely worth a shot. I've never been wowed by the better Polk stuff, but I've never really been disappointed. I've generally bought their cheaper stuff for people who were on a budget where they weren't too critical. Doesn't AV123 have some sort of credit thing going too where you get 10% of your purchase price in a store credit?

Also, if you go with Satin Black for $199, you can pick up the Encore Center as an open box for $150 (http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,241/category_id,16/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/).

The Encores are on backorder at the moment even though you can still place the order. They won't charge till they ship. I'd call and find out the ETA and see if it fits into your schedule.

Not that you're looking for one, but their x-sub is only $169 (http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,41/category_id,9/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/) right now too. Great budget sub that will do well in most small and mid size rooms and blend very well with satellite systems.

I'm trying to decide between a pair of AV123 X-LS Encores for around $230 shipped or a pair of Polk Rti8s for $250 locally off craigslist. Anyone offer any insight between the two?

Towers vs. bookshelves, in some ways this is apples vs. oranges.

It really depends on what you like, but for a very large room I'd get the RTi8s. Anything from a large to small room, the X-LS all the way. I agree with dbpaddler to a T almost about Polk. I recommend them all the time here cause there go on sale so often and a solid performer. Otherwise, there are many other brands I'd prefer. For instance, I have a used pair of Monitor Audio BR6s I picked up for fun which are better IMO than Polk RTi tower line.

I own a tweaked version of the X-LS Classic and have always been wowed by this speaker. Although its a bookshelf, its a good step up from the Polk in terms of overall quality. The Peerless drivers, the high quality xover components, the high quality heavy cabinets, this is a very high value speaker. Its a better speaker than Polk's $400 RTi6 bookshelf.

Get the sub as recommended by dbpaddler and you have a nice entry-level audiophile system. Add the center and you have a very nice starter HT and music setup.

One thing I wished I would've brought up sooner now that axiom mentions towers vs bookshelves. I had a doctor of mine come to me about a whole new setup. I hooked him up at my old place of business and of course his penny pinching nature came out and he went off on his own. Which was fine because he would've just been a headache as a customer. So I started looking up gear for him since I would end up putting it all together as he nickel and dimed his way to a setup.

Audio Advisor (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0NHT4) had refurb NHT Classic 4's for a grand a pair. Sweet well reviewed speakers, and I always liked the NHT sound. They make some nice bookshelves too. But these Classic 4's had built in 10" passive subs. What better than to take those unused 2 channels of a nice 120-150 wpc receiver (since many don't do a 7.1 setup) and use them for the sub. For smaller rooms it'd probably be plenty of bass without buying a subwoofer. For larger setups you could have them take care of the higher frequencies in the bass range and find a separate sub for the LFE. Their corresponding center is about 4-600 so you'd have your front three and sub taken care of for $1500-1700.

And if anyone is looking for a decent budget satellite setup, You can get the Polk RM10 5 speaker setup for about $220 on Amazon or direct at One Call. Would mate up nice with the X-sub for a compact sub/sat setup.

Those NHT 4's are a bargain at the price! I've never heard that particular speaker but I've heard the famous SuperZero which were very impressive for a sub-$1k bookshelf.

My only concern with a speaker like this is that it will *definately* be power hungry. Any passive sub like that will want a lot of juice. Back in the day, even the 8" woofers in my Paradigm's were underpowered by an Onkyo 705 that weighed 40lbs. Once I got in my multichannel Emotiva amp, the mid-bass *really* shine on those.

For a 10" passive sub, its hard to really know without having some idea of the sub driver's capabilities, but I suspect 250+ watts minimal per speaker is what this thing would want. There aren't many budget receivers out there than can do an honest 500w into 8 ohms 2 channels.

I've actually run and old M&K Goliath with their new Superfast driver off of an old Tandberg 2ch amp that I don't think isn't pushing more than 70wpc. I'd have a little distortion if I turned the levels up, but I wasn't expecting to shake the room with it.
Personally, if I'm looking at budget receivers I like going more old school as I don't really care about HD sound, and I can even use an HDMI switcher. My HT room is still run by a Denon 3803. So I think you could pick up a 3805 or an Integra 8.x or 9.x that will give you nice. The Integra 7.8 is nice at 130wpc. Onkyo 805. You're not going to shake the house down, but it would be more than enough to be clean into the mid to upper 30's. You go with the better high current amps that can handle the peaks a little better and you could be fine. Then if you want to upgrade, you convert the two channels to the side speakers for 7.1 and pick up a crown XLS202 or 402 for around $300 or less. You might even find a 602 for not much more and give it the wattage you suggest. Or just go with the "budget receiver with the bells and whistles and use the crown amp from the start. Some pro audio amps can make good outboard sub amps. Remember those old school vinyl veneered down firing subs on wheels? Solid cabinets. Pick up a new driver and an outboard amp and you're good to go. You'd be surprised how you can make them sound with a good driver and gobs of power.

Thats pretty interesting. I've never heard that particular sub before. I just did a google for it, interesting little guy. I wonder if it too wouldn't benefit from a larger amp. I forgot who it was on another forum, possibly Mark Seaton, who was talking about sub design. He basically, in a nutshell, saying a sub design can work with a small amp provided the woofer has large enough surface area and the internal volume is large enough. If the driver can handle it, I bet it would handle very well with a larger amp like the Crown you mentioned.

For a 2 channel system, the new HDMI codecs aren't a big deal and a good old receiver like the 3803 would be perfect. A lot of us have combined HT and music systems, like myself, and I personally like to "future proof" as much as possible. I just sold my AV processor that couldn't do the HD codecs and shopping for one that can. Its personal perference and I just got a PS3 to do Bluray.

As you said too any good outboard, like that crown, is likely going to better than the measly ones found in most receivers under $1k MSRP IMO.. I'm with you on that. It was those peak passages that showed the weaknesses in my old receiver. Problem with alot of the entry level newer receivers if they don't have pre-amp outs. You have to go up to the Onkyo 705 or Denon 988 for example. Although, some do, like the Yamaha 663 do have them and are really nice values on sale.

I barely remember those subs! One problem though, might be to find a driver thats optimal for that size enclosure. Though sub tuning isn't as critical as speaker tuning IMO, there's only 1 driver to worry about, no crossover tuning at all, etc. And hell, do your own cabinet along with the driver and amp and your in the DIY category... but thats a whole other subject.

Hello all...

WEll I finally got everything installed and watched transformers....unbelievable...having the rear speakers in the ceiling is killer...

Now I am having one small issue...On my Onkyo 606, I got DVD doing all it is supposed to (all HDMI connection). I plugged my dish network into the cable/sat rca plugs and I get sound out but no video (going to tv on same hdmi)..... help?

***update***

I hooked the dish network to the vcr/dvr inpt and used the vcr/dvr output to the tv... i now have audio and video, but i never changed the input source on the tv.......

OK, everything is going well with the home theater.. waiting to switch the 47" philips for the 52" on aug 18th (costco coupon)

I now want to get a cd player to go with my system....are the onkyo ones good? (trying to use the same remote) they have a 6 disc dvd/mp3/cd etc player DV-CP704 for $119 and with my 10 points, it would be $109.... thoughts? I dont really need the dvd part as i have a toshiba hd player, but it looks like the same price for the dx-c390...

I have an older version of the Onkyo DVD player (DV-CP701) and its solid. Unless you want a high end esoteric brand, which is debatable whether it makes any difference, the onkyo is a great piece.

Good to hear things are going well. Just got back from holiday, not too much happening on this thread though!

I'd been dragging my feet a bit implementing all the advice I've gotten on this thread. One of the things I've finally done is get the speakerwire I needed. I had made an initial post on the subject here:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11647485#post11647485

axiom had responded with this post:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11672051#post11672051

I also saw a more recent post by Axiom here:
...
Make sure if you going in wall to get CL3 rated wire for fire code issues. 14 or 16 guage would be prefered, 14 especially if your going over 80 ft each run.

...


The speaker wire originally recommended by both Axion and dbpaddler here (http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Ft-2-C-16-AWG-CL3-IN-WALL-SPEAKER-CABLE-WIRE-WHT_W0QQitemZ120270214858QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?afepn=5335869999&campid=5335869999) is gone now. But I just went ahead and ordered this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Outdoor-16-AWG-Gauge-CL3-White-Speaker-Wire-250_W0QQitemZ180266050926QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I went with 250' because I plan to have a 7.1 set up so if my room is 20x24 (more info on my room in this post (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11649275#post11649275)), I figure I could use over a hundred feet on the 4 side/rear speakers. I also went with 16 guage because I can't imagine having more than an 80' run in my set up. Also, it's got the CL3 for the Fire Code.

I still need to get the speakers though. If anyone's interested, the main window of advice I'm following is between post #88 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11640355#post11640355) and post #114 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11674939#post11674939).

I'm still checking out the rest of the thread and reading the updates. . (btw - I'm curious about the in-ceiling discussion brought up in the rest of the quote I had above from Axiom:

...

Here is a nice cheap in-ceiling or in-wall solution:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837 (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837)

I'd go for the 8" ones. I haven't heard them but the photos are pretty spiffy. Quality material on the woofer, air core inductors in the crossover.. hey you can't go wrong for the price. )

What's this in-ceiling thing all about?

I got those in ceiling speakers and am very happy...easy install...look great (ie I cant really tell they are there on a white ceiling) and they sound really good to me! Axiom has been great...i feel like i should have him over for a BBQ


I'd been dragging my feet a bit implementing all the advice I've gotten on this thread. One of the things I've finally done is get the speakerwire I needed. I had made an initial post on the subject here:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11647485#post11647485

axiom had responded with this post:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11672051#post11672051

I also saw a more recent post by Axiom here:


The speaker wire originally recommended by both Axion and dbpaddler here (http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Ft-2-C-16-AWG-CL3-IN-WALL-SPEAKER-CABLE-WIRE-WHT_W0QQitemZ120270214858QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?afepn=5335869999&campid=5335869999) is gone now. But I just went ahead and ordered this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Outdoor-16-AWG-Gauge-CL3-White-Speaker-Wire-250_W0QQitemZ180266050926QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I went with 250' because I plan to have a 7.1 set up so if my room is 20x24 (more info on my room in this post (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11649275#post11649275)), I figure I could use over a hundred feet on the 4 side/rear speakers. I also went with 16 guage because I can't imagine having more than an 80' run in my set up. Also, it's got the CL3 for the Fire Code.

I still need to get the speakers though. If anyone's interested, the main window of advice I'm following is between post #88 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11640355#post11640355) and post #114 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11674939#post11674939).

I'm still checking out the rest of the thread and reading the updates. . (btw - I'm curious about the in-ceiling discussion brought up in the rest of the quote I had above from Axiom:

)

What's this in-ceiling thing all about?

I got those in ceiling speakers and am very happy...easy install...look great (ie I cant really tell they are there on a white ceiling) and they sound really good to me! Axiom has been great...i feel like i should have him over for a BBQ

I'm not familiar with in ceiling speakers at all. My plan was to just put the 4 rear speakers against the wall following the advice on the poster that came with my Onkyo 605. I believe it's two on the back wall and two on the side wall close to the back.

Hi guys,

I am trying to finish my media room and i dont know too much about speakers. i was just planning to get 4 inceiling speakers. Would that do enough justice? Would i need to buy that speaker box to put near my tv? I am also planning in the future to hang up a flat screen. Do i need to know what to tell my contractor before the job is done

I got those in ceiling speakers and am very happy...easy install...look great (ie I cant really tell they are there on a white ceiling) and they sound really good to me! Axiom has been great...i feel like i should have him over for a BBQ

I'm a steak, burgers, and chicken man.. bring on the meat! :cool:

I'm not familiar with in ceiling speakers at all. My plan was to just put the 4 rear speakers against the wall following the advice on the poster that came with my Onkyo 605. I believe it's two on the back wall and two on the side wall close to the back.

Both in wall and in ceiling speakers are for convenience. You install them IN the wall, as in you have to cut a hole in the wall, run speaker wire, and install them. You have to be handy a bit of course to do this. These are for people who don't want larger speakers hanging around. Its a personal decision or a decision made for you by your gf or wife ahem. There are plenty of people who do complete home theaters using just in wall speakers.

Its also great for whole house audio but that's a whole other subject.

Hi guys,

I am trying to finish my media room and i dont know too much about speakers. i was just planning to get 4 inceiling speakers. Would that do enough justice? Would i need to buy that speaker box to put near my tv? I am also planning in the future to hang up a flat screen. Do i need to know what to tell my contractor before the job is done

You'll need at least 5 speakers for surround sound (5.1), 7 preferably (7.1). I recommend in-walls over in-ceiling speakers since the woofers are directed at you as opposed to in ceilings which usually only have an aimable tweeter.

For a budget route, consider the inwall speakers at monoprice. You can of course get nicer in walls by pretty much every speaker company. What's your budget look like?

I'm assuming too your building a house or renovating one. For the TV, you'd want to ask him to run an HDMI line and a power line to wherever the TV will go. The wall bracket you can do on your own.

For speakers, you want him to run CL3 rated speaker wire through the walls preferably 16 gauge or below. If your doing greater than 80ft wire runs, use at least 14 gauge.

Now, to do surround sound correctly, you'll have 3 speakers around the TV, 2 fronts and a center.

Here's a great illustration:
http://www.csiraleigh.com/images/P442_1.jpg

Then, if your doing 5.1, you'll also need 2 rear speakers. If you follow Onkyo's guide, you'll need speaker cable runs to that area of the wall. With 7.1, it'll be 4 speakers, 2 sides and 2 rears.

The only "speaker" you'll have not wall mounted will be the sub.

i dont see any cl3 on monoprice. Do u mean cl2?

i dont see any cl3 on monoprice. Do u mean cl2?

Either.

http://fourpair.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-is-difference-between-cl2-and-cl3.html

I'm a steak, burgers, and chicken man.. bring on the meat! :cool:

You near northern california?

You near northern california?

Northern NJ here, a just-right 35 miles from Manhattan. Give me a few months and a moped at these gas prices heh

Geez. I'm just south of both you. Live in Philly and am in Newport Beach now. Time to hit the surf :)

I'm not familiar with in ceiling speakers at all. My plan was to just put the 4 rear speakers against the wall following the advice on the poster that came with my Onkyo 605. I believe it's two on the back wall and two on the side wall close to the back.

I just read this and realized what your saying. What type of speakers are you using for the rear and sides? If you are planning to put a speaker flush against the wall, make sure they are made to do that.

For instance, dipole/bipole speakers are made for what you want. Also, there are dedicated on-wall monopole(normal) speakers. Last but not least are in-walls where you have to cut a hole in the wall.

I just read this and realized what your saying. What type of speakers are you using for the rear and sides? If you are planning to put a speaker flush against the wall, make sure they are made to do that.

For instance, dipole/bipole speakers are made for what you want. Also, there are dedicated on-wall monopole(normal) speakers. Last but not least are in-walls where you have to cut a hole in the wall.

Thanks for getting back to me Axiom. I'm actually not sure what speakers I am going to get yet. But, I do appreciate you listing out the various ones out there. I think I'm a little confused between the three though - I get the in-walls which I would have to cut a hole for. But what exactly are dipole/bipole and on-wall monopole? You say diplole/bipole is for what I want...

My latest status with this project is that I had ordered my speaker cable about two weeks ago (as mentioned in my post here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=12261033#post12261033)) and received it a week ago. I'm planning on heading to Audio Video Solutions in Laurel, MD tomorrow to finally hear some different speakers. And, as mentioned in the speaker post I just linked, I'm mainly planning on looking for the speakers discussed specifically for me between posts #88 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11640355#post11640355) and post #114 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11674939#post11674939).

I'm not sure how many speakers I can get depending on how much the speaker/pair of speakers go for. Worst case, if the two I want are really high end and nice, I get two and then take the 4 JBL ones I have now and shift all 4 of them to the rear. What do you guys think? Then I can replace them out one by one or in pairs over the next few months? (I assume with the same model that I got the new front ones).

Once I get the new front speakers, I do plan to have someone come in to run wiring through the walls so I can stop running the skinny speaker cable across our bedroom floor. We'll run the wire using the attic (easily accessible from the room next door). So if I did go with speakers we had to cut the holes in the wall for, I could maybe have him handle that too.

As far as demo material to take with me for my visit tomorrow: We don't really listen to music off our surround sound system so this is going to be strictly for TV & Movies. I'll go through my limited Blu-ray collection to see what I have that has good surround sound. I have the Departed which I believe is PCM. One of the things I love to watch is the plane/shuttle sequence in Superman Returns, but that's Dolby Digital (although I'm hearing there's a PCM version of Superman Returns out there: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=46327) (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=46327%29). I also like the MI:3 Bridge Attack scene.

Thanks for getting back to me Axiom. I'm actually not sure what speakers I am going to get yet. But, I do appreciate you listing out the various ones out there. I think I'm a little confused between the three though - I get the in-walls which I would have to cut a hole for. But what exactly are dipole/bipole and on-wall monopole? You say diplole/bipole is for what I want...


Sorry to confuse you even further. I just don't want you buying a normal speaker and just mounting it against the wall. That's bad. If you are getting in-walls your fine. I could get into this subject and explain why, but you'd probably get bored fast :)

A monopole speaker is a traditional speaker. The whole thing about "poles" is about dispersion patterns. If your getting normal in-walls, they are monopoles unless they say otherwise. That's fine to use unless you prefer using bi or dipoles which offer a diffuse, hard to locate sound for the rear and sides. Its sort of an audio holy war between which type of side/rear speakers to use.

If you really want to know more, try this article that's very long. I personally prefer monopoles since that's what is expected when surround formats are mastered.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/25/index.html



My latest status with this project is that I had ordered my speaker cable about two weeks ago (as mentioned in my post here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=12261033#post12261033)) and received it a week ago. I'm planning on heading to Audio Video Solutions in Laurel, MD tomorrow to finally hear some different speakers. And, as mentioned in the speaker post I just linked, I'm mainly planning on looking for the speakers discussed specifically for me between posts #88 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11640355#post11640355) and post #114 (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11674939#post11674939).

I'm not sure how many speakers I can get depending on how much the speaker/pair of speakers go for. Worst case, if the two I want are really high end and nice, I get two and then take the 4 JBL ones I have now and shift all 4 of them to the rear. What do you guys think? Then I can replace them out one by one or in pairs over the next few months? (I assume with the same model that I got the new front ones).


Try not to fall in love with any overpriced Wilson audio speakers and you'll be fine!

Yes, you can shift other brand speakers rear or sidewards. Again, some will disagree, but I've had no problems doing this. The front 3 must be matched but there's so little important sound coming from surround speakers, that its never been an issue for me.



Once I get the new front speakers, I do plan to have someone come in to run wiring through the walls so I can stop running the skinny speaker cable across our bedroom floor. We'll run the wire using the attic (easily accessible from the room next door). So if I did go with speakers we had to cut the holes in the wall for, I could maybe have him handle that too.



You can buy flat cable too. It works well under rugs and such. I do that. Not expensive either, you can swing some off ebay or partsexpress.


As far as demo material to take with me for my visit tomorrow: We don't really listen to music off our surround sound system so this is going to be strictly for TV & Movies. I'll go through my limited Blu-ray collection to see what I have that has good surround sound. I have the Departed which I believe is PCM. One of the things I love to watch is the plane/shuttle sequence in Superman Returns, but that's Dolby Digital (although I'm hearing there's a PCM version of Superman Returns out there: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=46327) (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=780604&sdfid=30&u2=http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=46327%29). I also like the MI:3 Bridge Attack scene.

If this is a movie only system, my guess is you'll find lots of good speakers just because music is usually more critical with good speakers. The 2 most important speakers for a movie system are the center, where all the dialogue comes out of, and the subwoofer, for slamming effects. For a center, obviously you'd need matching fronts where you can audition there. For a sub, I recommend buying online since there's no matching involved and where there is tremendous value. The minimal price I'd pay for a sub is $120 for the partsexpress unit. The real good subs starts at $350 and above.

Been on vacation again.. looks like its fairly dead here!

hello folks, I am new to this audiophile business. Today I ordered a Pioneer Elite 7.1 Surround Receiver Vsx-90txv for about $300 bucks. I have a Panasonic TH-42PX80U plasma on the way. I plan to start my own home theater set up, thus I am looking at a Philips DVP5990 which can do 1080p upconvert, and it has a USB port. The USB port would allow me to hook up an external hard drive with Divx movies. Now I would like some help with a decent subwoofer and speaker recommendation. My budget for the sub is about 300 bucks, and maybe 400 for the speakers. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. I did listen to the Klispe speaker in BB and I like it.

Depends on what form factor you want.. floorstanding, bookshelf, or lifestyle. In terms of really good systems for $700 I like Athena (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKWSPK6) or Polk..

Depends on what form factor you want.. floorstanding, bookshelf, or lifestyle. In terms of really good systems for $700 I like Athena (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATKWSPK6) or Polk..

do you happen to have a model number or sku? thanks. I prefer floor standing speakers.

I'd wait for one of the Polk sales on slick for the R50 or Monitor series. They always show up on frys. Then pick up the matching center and find some inexpensive rears. Audioadvisor has the Athenas, also good, on the cheap but since they are a brand that's going away, it would be tough to find the center unless you want to hunt ebay.

For a sub, I'd check out ebay and audiogon for starters to find some used bargains. Otherwise, the Dayton 10" or 12" sub is a great value new.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&CATID=25&ObjectGroup_ID=620

They have the 10" on sale right now but the 12" is still a good bargain. They measure up well against most budget subs in this price range, besting alot of them.

I am thinking about getting 5 of the Athena C.5 center channel speaker and use them as surround speakers. Then use the Klipsch KSW-10 subwoofer, add a pair of the POLK AUDIO R300 connected to Pioneer Elite 7.1 Surround Receiver Vsx-90txv to set up a 7.1 ht system.
Cost outlay: 5x Athena C 5 = 5x50 = 250
Klipsch KSW-10 subwoofer = 180
A pair of POLK AUDIO R300 = 99.40
Pioneer Elite 7.1 Surround Receiver Vsx-90txv = 300
Grand total: $829.40
Compared to this set up is Onkyo HT-S990THX Home Theater System 7.1 for $704 shipped.
I would like inputs into these two setups. Thanks.

The Athena/Polk setup would be vastly superior. I would personally swap out the R300s for the better R50s or Monitor 50s and then "downgrade" the sub to the Dayton I mentioned which you can get for $155 here:

http://store.audioholics.com/product/1974/20/dayton-sub-120-12--150-watt-powered-subwoofer

The Pioneer is a good receiver but doesn't do HD audio through HDMI if that matters to you. For the same price, you can find the Onkyo 606 or 605 which does.

The Dayton sub i am not familiar with, but i am liking the Klipsch at 30 bucks more. Unfortunately, I already have the Pioneer Elite receiver-got in from the deal at Vanns, and the R300 on the way from Frys. The R50 and Monitor 50s right now cost a bit more than the R300, but definitely I will keep your advice in mind when they go on sale.
The Onkyo HT-S990THX Home Theater System 7.1 is touted as the flagship ht set up. So it seems that building my system piece by piece yield a superior listening experience.
With that being said, thanks for the advice. What would i need to get HD audio if I use the Pioneer? The back of the receiver looks intimidating.

I'd say the heavier, bigger Dayton 12" is likely a superior sub to the Klipsch performance wise.

The Pioneer, unfortunately, can't decode HD-Audio. You'd need to replace the receiver :)

However, if you have a dedicated blu-ray player say, you could hookup 7 analog RCA cables from the player to the receiver say. That makes the blu-ray player the decoder. Unforunately, PS3 can't do this.

Well, I'm back in here again with considerably more money than the last time I posted. Again here's my current setup:
Samsung LNT5271F 52-inch 1080p TV.
PS3 (HDMI input), XBox 360 (component in), and a Wii (component in).

I just purchased one of those Onkyo TX-SR705S that just came up on the frontpage.

I have upwards of $2k to spend on speakers now. I'm looking for a 7.1 system and my room is irregularly shaped, though the majority of it is a 15'-18' rectangle. I'm not sure what type of system I should get and any ideas would be greatly helpful.

Well, I'm back in here again with considerably more money than the last time I posted. Again here's my current setup:
Samsung LNT5271F 52-inch 1080p TV.
PS3 (HDMI input), XBox 360 (component in), and a Wii (component in).

I just purchased one of those Onkyo TX-SR705S that just came up on the frontpage.

I have upwards of $2k to spend on speakers now. I'm looking for a 7.1 system and my room is irregularly shaped, though the majority of it is a 15'-18' rectangle. I'm not sure what type of system I should get and any ideas would be greatly helpful.

Apologies for any late replies, this thread is generally slow.

For $2k, there are so, so many choices.

Any limitations on size? For your price, I'd get a good sub plus floorstanders in front and then bookshelves or dipoles around that.

Another great way to go is used, for a an even better value. Check out audiogon.com for stuff in your area.

Pretty dead here these days!

I've gotten a lot of advice on this thread. And I was oh so close to getting the speakers discussed in this thread. One of the things I was waiting on was a nice blu-ray disc to take to the Audio Video Solutions store to demo and when I got my Iron Man, I thought I was set.

But last thurs, my house caught on fire pretty bad so pretty much all electronics are ruined. We're heading to a rental house for a while so I'm going to gradually build everything there - I'll update this thread as I get things over time. Maybe this time around I'll start w/ a better receiver than the Onkyo TX-SR605 I had?

Hey guys! I been on a summer SD-free hiatus... just been working more and the money I saved from not jumping on every deal has given me a chance to get out to some of the summer concert series this year. Just got back from Voodoo Music Experience Festival in New Orleans! WOW. if you love good music and 100s of artist over 3 days...this is a must-do event. Anyways, I was just dropping in, glad to see this thread is moving along... slow, but this is a deal site, not an audio forum. Its good that this is here though, as many novice and new-comers would be intimidated by the high-end audio forums on the web. This thread is intended to give readers some basic general knowledge of the entry-level affordable audio options out there...and good placement, driver selection, and clean amplification that these aspects can attribute to your system and goals.
Also glad to see Rizvi1's system up and running now. I bet its sounding good.

hey axiom... did you get the emotiva equipment? any new upgrades since? I will probably be putting my PSB Image 7.1 up for sale, and upgrade to the PSB Imagine line. I will be pitting them against the Monitor Audio Gold series. Its all my fault for taking a MA rep up on his offer for an audition in his studio.

I've gotten a lot of advice on this thread. And I was oh so close to getting the speakers discussed in this thread. One of the things I was waiting on was a nice blu-ray disc to take to the Audio Video Solutions store to demo and when I got my Iron Man, I thought I was set.

But last thurs, my house caught on fire pretty bad so pretty much all electronics are ruined. We're heading to a rental house for a while so I'm going to gradually build everything there - I'll update this thread as I get things over time. Maybe this time around I'll start w/ a better receiver than the Onkyo TX-SR605 I had?

oh wow...i didnt read this post...sorry to hear about the house fire Riz :(
but think about the bright side...now armed with the knowledge you can have an even better system... good luck

oh wow...i didnt read this post...sorry to hear about the house fire Riz :(
but think about the bright side...now armed with the knowledge you can have an even better system... good luck

Thanks stickycash. I suppose first things first, I need to get a new receiver. I had the Onkyo TX-SR605 before. Any ideas suggestions on what to look out for? Something maybe more deal oriented where I'd get the most bang for buck.

I need to get a PS3 ordered asap too.

Sorry to hear about your fire Riz.. that's tough tough going. I hope you have the essentials figured out first before re-doing your HT system. Priorities, priorities.

The Onkyo is a solid receiver. The 606 is the replacement and has more HDMI ports. Both are excellent values. They are probably the best value receivers in the price range right now. The Denon 689 and 789 are its competitors. They are worth into as well though the 689 has less HDMI ports.

Sticky, sounds like you had an awesome time. Friends of mine have been telling me how great Orleans and trying to drag me to go! You may have a new love after hearing Monitor Audio by the way. I just had a transitory pair of Bronze's speakers and their value was exceptionally high in my opinion. You may give their Silver line a try even while you hear the Golds. The RS6 is an incredible speaker for the price.

Haven’t been back here in a while but now I need to reach out to my slickdealers again! I just got a new home and am finally dumping the crappy old “home theater in a box” system I got ages and ages ago. The place is a loft actually so I’m not sure how the sound carries, but I’m looking to get a new setup to match the new pad!

I’m getting new everything and while I’m working on a budget of around +/-$500 for the stereo system, I still need to get a new TV (probably will end up getting a 42’’ or 46’’ LCD), a new Blu-Ray player, and a new receiver (with HDMI).

There is a bit of a sense of urgency here because the person whom I purchased my new home from is asking if I would be interested in buying his JBL Northridge Series speakers (and I need to get back to him ASAP). He’s selling 3 speakers. 1 JBL Northridge Series EC25 Center Channel speaker and a pair of JBL Northridge Series E90 floor speakers. He wants $350 for them. Is this a good deal? Are these speakers indeed any good? I know there is a very large range in speakers and prices and needs but I just want to know if these is a good price for what he’s selling.

I don’t mind going over my budget if I’m getting a good value. Please excuse any ignorance of audio/sound systems, I’ve been pressed for time and haven’t had a lot of spare time to do my homework on this yet. Thanks in advance!!

I do know some people that are happy with their Northridge Series speakers, and I didn't have much to complain about the few times I've heard their systems. Compared to retail, the front three for $350 doesn't seem too bad at all. In general, they are very efficient and easy to drive. The center channel goes the extra mile with a tweeter, midrange and two woofers. Very nice center channel for the money. The 3-way E90's should be nice for left rights in your open setting and aren't power hungry. Dual 8" woofers might be sufficient for a temporary subwooferless setup if money is a concern.

I think it'd be a great way to start out for a minimal investment. If you need a receiver as well, I'd actually forget about the HDMI switching reciever, hop on ebay or craigslist and find a nice high powered, few year old receiver and get an hdmi switch if needed. I'd take a higher watt quality receiver and DTS/DD with decent speakers over spending a few hundred more to get a lesser quality receiver that'll do the new HD DTS & DD. I love my Denon 3803 and have a hard time justifying any sort of upgrade that would give me value.

Skip the Blu-Ray. Drop $60 on an HD-DVD player that does well on upscaling. Unless you're doing netflix or something, I just can't see justifying the cost increase for the player and movies for what you're getting. But that's just me. I'd rather invest in a better tv and better receiver.

Here's some good reviews on the speakers. The one very favorable over the comparable Paradigms:
Home Theater Sound Review (http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/jbl_northridge_e90_e35_e10_e250p.htm)
Secrets of Home Theater HiFi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/jbl-e90-speakers-12-2004.html)
Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Northridge-8-Inch-Floorstanding-Speaker/dp/B0000EWNWE) & Audio Review (http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/jbl/e90/PRD_289348_1594crx.aspx) customer reviews.

The JBL is an excellent value for the price it used to go for new. Both the Northridge and the Infinity Beta series are the snubbed value underdogs in the high end audio world IMO. They are both quick good and can compete with many of the lower end lines of the more well known makers such as the Paradigm Monitor series (older ones at least). Particularly, I find the Beta series to be slightly better than the Northridge especially with those CMMD drivers.

Unfortunately I didn't find much on pricing. best buy blew out the e90s for $250/pair at one point. That would lead me to conclude that it should be less than $350 used for both the E90s plus center. $300 would be a fairer price.

db, your suggestion is pretty good. This would suggest some patience as I noticed many people overprice their receivers on craigslist IMO. The best deal I've found was a Denon 4800 for $150 but that was bought up pretty fast! I don't know where you live bjhb4evero but I'd also check out clearance items. Last years model or the year before that are usually blown out pretty cheap. I bought a 2 generation old Yamaha entry level RX-V450 for the bedroom for a lovely $100 2 years ago. That was like scoring a RX-V459 or Onkyo 505 today for $100. You can find deals like this monitoring slickdeals or if you live in an area that has stores with inventory-clearing deals like 6ave.

you also wouldn't be a slickdealer if you didn't haggle. He obviously doesn't want to take them if he doesn't have to. Offer $280. can mention you're on a budget and starting from scratch. Can end up at 320 or less then. If you start at 300, 325 might be the counteroffer.

It is funny how some people on CL have no clue on value for their old receiver. they just figure they paid so much for it, and it's still worth it.

If your in the NY/NJ metro area like myself, 6ave is blowing out the Onkyo 705 for $250 at its springfield and jersey city locations tomorrow (nov 5). Unbeatable price if you can score one!

Dangit! I live in San Francisco actually! Coupled with the fact that once I close escrow on this new loft, I will be dead broke, maybe I should hold off until there's a great deal on these speakers (or something similar) again? $250/pair for these JBL speakers?!? That's insane! Thank you thank you thank you for all the feedback but if you have anymore, please do post!

Nice timing on real estate! Much better investment there.

Just look on audiogon and craigslist and possibly ebay when you are ready for speakers. There are always people selling and nothing is better than used for value. I bought my current front pair (Onix Strata Minis) for $1000. It retails for $2k and goes on sale for $1500 on occasion.

Just don't get suckered in by the fake "white van" brands. Those are the ones that say they are worth $3k but someone is blowing them out for a mere $200! They can be easy to spot, they look like big versions of those obnoxious mass market bookshelf systems that look like a Transformer threw up. They even use real names and slightly change it. For instance, Paradigm is well known and highly respected. But there are knockoffs called "Paradyme".

Haven’t been back here in a while but now I need to reach out to my slickdealers again! I just got a new home and am finally dumping the crappy old “home theater in a box” system I got ages and ages ago. The place is a loft actually so I’m not sure how the sound carries, but I’m looking to get a new setup to match the new pad!

I’m getting new everything and while I’m working on a budget of around +/-$500 for the stereo system, I still need to get a new TV (probably will end up getting a 42’’ or 46’’ LCD), a new Blu-Ray player, and a new receiver (with HDMI).

There is a bit of a sense of urgency here because the person whom I purchased my new home from is asking if I would be interested in buying his JBL Northridge Series speakers (and I need to get back to him ASAP). He’s selling 3 speakers. 1 JBL Northridge Series EC25 Center Channel speaker and a pair of JBL Northridge Series E90 floor speakers. He wants $350 for them. Is this a good deal? Are these speakers indeed any good? I know there is a very large range in speakers and prices and needs but I just want to know if these is a good price for what he’s selling.

I don’t mind going over my budget if I’m getting a good value. Please excuse any ignorance of audio/sound systems, I’ve been pressed for time and haven’t had a lot of spare time to do my homework on this yet. Thanks in advance!!

I have the Northridge E80 and EC35 up front, and they are pretty nice, but I paid only $420 including shipping new for mine, so I don't know if you're getting a great deal used, unless they're in perfect condition. Granted, the E90 are more expensive new, but so is the EC35.

In choosing the EC35 over the EC25, I read tons of material saying that, while the EC35 is super heavy and large, the benefit in terms of vocal clarity and midrange definition for HT use is significant. I demo'd the EC25 and wasn't exceptionally impressed, but it's OK for a starter set. The EC35 just adds that extra oomf necessary to power and project voices across a broader front soundstage.

Edit: the $97 shipped refurbished Onkyo TX-506S receiver from www.shoponkyo.com (alive as of now) is a huge deal and you should jump on it if you want a good, inexpensive HT receiver that has HDMI pass-through (no switching, so cables needed for each device).

If you're quick enough, the deals on these Polk Audio Monitor 50 & Monitor 60 series speakers (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=68265&t=1004109)are incredible! Includes free shipping, too!

$129.99/EA for the Monitor 60 in Cherry or Black.
$99.99/EA for the Monitor 50 in Cherry or Black.

The Monitor series has a very spacious, open, yet well-defined sound you'd expect from significantly more expensive brands, yet they also have a great build quality. The only disappointing thing about these speakers is the lack of any oomf to the lower end of the range, but they should blend well with any quality budget sub (BIC H-100 or VK-12, eD A2-300, etc.) when properly calibrated, in phase, with a standard x-over of 80hz or decent parametric EQ.

I just saw the Polk thread at newegg. These Polk sales are the best high value way for people to get into higher end audio gear besides used stuff. Highly recommended.

I just saw the Polk thread at newegg. These Polk sales are the best high value way for people to get into higher end audio gear besides used stuff. Highly recommended.

I concur. My brother has these Polks and I think they are unbeatable at this price.

Was thinking of throwing up a wiki of audio deals for the coming of black friday. Any takers?

I've gotten a lot of advice on this thread. And I was oh so close to getting the speakers discussed in this thread. One of the things I was waiting on was a nice blu-ray disc to take to the Audio Video Solutions store to demo and when I got my Iron Man, I thought I was set.

But last thurs, my house caught on fire pretty bad so pretty much all electronics are ruined. We're heading to a rental house for a while so I'm going to gradually build everything there - I'll update this thread as I get things over time. Maybe this time around I'll start w/ a better receiver than the Onkyo TX-SR605 I had?

Ok, TV of 1 of 2 has arrived - my Sony Bravia W-Series KDL-52W4100 52-Inch 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV (http://slickdeals.net/?sduid=100363&sdtid=996569&sdfid=9&u2=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017Q8B70) which I got at a ridiculous price from this deal here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=14141929#post14141929) (a price "Accidentally" made so low I'm planning on calling Amazon up soon to actually tell them they were supposed to charge more - well, maybe after BF in case I do legitimately see the price drop this low) .

As I mentioned before, we are in a rental house for the next 8-10 months while our house gets rebuilt. The good news is that in this rebuilding, I can do some custom stuff now like putting surround in the walls. I'd like to do surround sound in both my master bedroom and the family room so now to start acquiring the goods that will be installed (and use them temporarily with speaker stands in my rental family room and rental bedroom).

Still need one more TV for my master bedroom - I'm thinking a 46" probably (I think a 52" would probably be overkill for my master bedroom). I'm thinking it will probably be a 46" Samsung (630, 650, or 750) or a 46" Sony Z-series based on what I'm seeing deals pop up for.

So now to start eying receivers. Getting started with axiom's advice here:

Sorry to hear about your fire Riz.. that's tough tough going. I hope you have the essentials figured out first before re-doing your HT system. Priorities, priorities.

The Onkyo is a solid receiver. The 606 is the replacement and has more HDMI ports. Both are excellent values. They are probably the best value receivers in the price range right now. The Denon 689 and 789 are its competitors. They are worth into as well though the 689 has less HDMI ports.

...

I'll be keeping an eye out for these receivers.

I see some deals right above this post for the the Polk Audio Monitor 50 & Monitor 60 series speakers (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=68265&t=1004109)but if I'm looking for speakers to put in the walls, I probably shouldn't be looking at these right? I've gotten a lot of advice on speakers to consider I think around the middle of this thread so I'm assuming a lot of that advice still applies.

Lastly, I had given some pictures in of my master bedroom back in this post here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=11649275#post11649275). This time around, we'll be getting rid of that closet (and moving it) to make the room more perfectly rectangular which should be better for the surround sound.
I'll try to put up some pictures of the family room soon too.

Was thinking of throwing up a wiki of audio deals for the coming of black friday. Any takers?

I'd be more interested if there were any great deals for 2008's BF. It has aptly been named Sad Friday :(.

Err didn't mean to post here, not sure what happened.

what are thoughts on these Definitive Bipolar Hi-End Tower Speakers (Pair!) $297 B&M @ 6th Ave (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=14619889#post14619889) for the people near a B&M 6th avenue? I mentioned earlier that my house burned down recently and is being rebuilt. I'm planning on putting in a home theater in multiple places, but really am thinking of taking advantage of the opportunity to build in the wall surrounds in the various places.

Those Deftechs seem like a sweet deal. I'd get it a test run, not everyone likes the bipolar sound Deftech is famous for. They basically employ a rear firing tweeter to have less locatable sound. In other words, the sound is diffused. You get a surround-lite effect from 2 speakers. People who like this sound like the enveloping effect. People who don't think it sounds muddy and not precise enough sounding.

For more traditional speakers, i found this deal online thats pretty sweet on Kef IQ5 towers for about $375 shipped.
http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=KEFIQ5MPL

Nice tv deal Rizvi1! Good to hear things are going well with your house rebuilding.

If you are considering going in-wall, don't buy traditional speakers. You really want speakers MADE for in-wall use. If you install those Polk Monitors in-wall, you'll get a boomy muddy sound. This is due to a speaker design issue called Baffle Step Compensation that designers have built-in to their speakers. Basically, it accounts for lost energy at mid to low frequencies. When you have a speaker flush against the wall (or in the wall) you are expanding the front of the speaker (called the baffle). All of a sudden, the "lost" lower frequencies bounce off that wall, amplifying those frequencies! Speakers made to be in or on wall don't employ this so it won't be a problem.

If you want in-wall speakers, you should consider checking out circuit city. I saw some clearance Polk in-walls there.

Does anyone one have a denon audio video receiver. What is your experience with this model for a home theater system. I cant afford to spend a whole lot of money and found this receiver paired with the Boton Accoustics MCS-90 speakers. The package is DHT-589BA Sears has it for $449, i bought it at Circuit city for $434 + tax with the price match

Denons are excellent receivers. Their new line is very competitive. Which model Denon were you looking at?

Denons are excellent receivers. Their new line is very competitive. Which model Denon were you looking at?



The package is DHT-589BA the receiver that comes with it is AVR-689!

The package is DHT-589BA the receiver that comes with it is AVR-689!

The 689 is very nice! Can you get a deal off that package? I'm assuming you want small speakers. In this case, the receiver is better than the speakers it comes with.

The 689 is very nice! Can you get a deal off that package? I'm assuming you want small speakers. In this case, the receiver is better than the speakers it comes with.

Yes, I just sold my old home theater system. It was a Yamaha yht-17. I thought it sounded good and the speakers that came with it were small also. I figured the Boston Acoustic speakers that come with this package would at least be comparable or hopefully a little better sound wise. I'm hoping the receiver is a step up as my last one didnt have HDMI, Odyssey EQ, etc. I paid $434 at Circuit City for the whole package, seemed like a pretty good deal!

Folks, for anyone reading this thread:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=15267265&posted=1#post15267265

These Infinitys are my favorite budget tower speaker. Better than the Polk RTi10 IMHO.

mispost

Let me preface, I'm not an expert. While I know a lot more than the average slickdealer HT sound, I know a lot less than the average avsforums sound junkie. Check out avsforums for better and accurate info.


[B]Lifestyles/micro/computer speakers (any satellite speaker with cones less than 5") suck, even high end ones. They can't output the most important sound range well. They have the same problems as bose cubes.
There is a reason you hardly ever see them mentioned in the forum, they are never considered serious for people who know.
"The voiced speech of a typical adult male will have a fundamental frequency of from 85 to 155 Hz, and that of a typical adult female from 165 to 255 Hz[1][2]." link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_frequency)

Crossover (CO) frequency. Not to be confused with all the different CO's in a sound system, I'm talking about the most important one set by your receiver. Your receiver splits source sound in to two frequency outputs. One, your subwoofer; the other, your satellites. e.g., if your CO is set to 80hz; sub handles (0-80hz), satellites handle (80hz+). The most recommended CO is set between 60hz and 80hz (assuming non-garbage speakers).
Low frequency sounds (what your sub is for) are not directional, you can not tell where it's coming from. This is why sub placement is flexible and can be placed around your room. Read optimal sub placement here (http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement)
When you have satellite speakers that can't handle midrange proper frequency (read: micro speakers), then you must set the crossover high so your sub can compensate. The problem is 1. this sound is directional. Dialogue comes through your subwoofer, not your satellites. Keep in mind the male voice range posted above 2. subs designed for midrange sound can not also do low sounds well.

E.G., the CO for bose cubes is 200hz, you can basically watch the whole movie just through you sub without satellites. Any system where you can hear recognizable dialogue through the sub alone is bad bad bad.
more info on CO link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=947258)

Anyone find in forums or reviews anywhere where a lifestyle speaker of any cost beat a slickdealed $50 tower or bookshelf for movie use. I have never seen such, and personally experienced it when I owned midrange kef speakers with 4" cones. These speakers are actually loved by some audiophile music listeners and have some positive reviews from the forums. Still, dialogue was still directional and coming out the subwoofer. I had to set the crossovers at 140 hz to sound good. Since I did not like hearing movies come out the corner of my room, they were returned. Properly setup stereo would sound more natural, over a nonproper surround setup. Much cheaper to boot.

If you want small sound system
Go two (L and R) bookshelves (respectable midrange cones of around 6") + subwoofer. The sound sacrifice is so minimal compared to huge sacrifice to lifestyle types. Also, you will get that simulated surround (SS) sound, which is actually fairly decent. The SS surround processing is done by your receiver and can be done with any speaker. You do not need to buy that ripoff yamaha soundbar. Still, having towers as your LR speakers is considered the best sound.

Don't be fooled by their misleading specs. There are many problems with manufacturer's frequency response (FR) specs, but for brevity, here is one the most flagrant problems: posting the comprehensive (FR) (satellites + subwoofer) instead of posting independent FR This hides the horrible FR ranges of those tiny satellites.

bose suck link (http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001749.html#more)

The best place to buy cables for hookups is monoprice. Audioholics wrote a cost split guide where cables should be about %5 of your setup.
What cables do I need? read wiki here (http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=360894&t=800150&highlight=cables)

Here are some specs.
These speakers were found on slickdeals.
Note manufacturer’s always put overly optimistic specs, the actual useable FR response tends to be bit less. E.g, they spec 55hz , you’re looking at more useable range of 65-70hz+.

Polk monitor 30 bookshelves. $90/pair 55Hz - 25kHz
Polk monitor 50 tower speakers $90/each 42Hz - 25kHz
polk rti8 tower speakers $150/each 30Hz-27kHz (40hz-26khz -3db)
sunfire CRM-2 (semi micro footprint 8.25" tall) $800/each 95hz-40khz http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm.

remember, recommended crossover is 60-80hz for HT use. The CRM-2 can not do this. The 3 polks can all do 80hz easily while the two polk towers can do 60hz easily. While the crm-2 can go very high, the importance of midrange dwarfs this for HT use. This is where much of the dialogue is at.

The best improvement/$$ spent is your front speakers. Not receiver. If you watch movies (home theater use), or have bookshelves having a subwoofer is a must. It is better to spend $500/$100 on speakers/receiver, than $300/$300. For most,you should just get the cheapest slickdealed respectable brand receiver with the features you need. like this. I would not consider fancier receivers unless my speakers were at least over $1000, more like $2000. I would rather get a cheaper receiver and buy an additional dedicated amplifier for my L R C speakers.

Speaker importance
Movies/TV Order of importance 1: Center channel (or phantom center). 2. Subwoofer. around 80% of the sound comes out of the above speakers
Music order of importance 1. Left and Right. 2.Subwoofer (some types of music depend on subs more heavily)

Something else to consider to is that speakers last a long time (lowering their cost/year) while receivers get outdated much faster.

Center Channel importance in movies
Audioholics ran thorough and comprehensive tests, the best center channel speaker is vast majority of cases a 3rd tower speaker/bookshelf. It is also usually a lot cheaper than a speaker specified as "center channel". It also has perfect pitch match. Vertically orientated center tower is best if you can (like your LR channels), however turning it horizontal is still better than "center specific" speakers.
can't find original article, but here is an offshoot discussion of it.
http://forums.audioholics.com/for...hp?t=33771

Phantom Center
There also a growing movement of fans who prefer no center at all, called phantom center. This means that your L and R speaker will mimic having a center by having sounds emit at the same time. One benefit; A center speaker can't be placed in the middle of your screen making the sound come out usually above or below your tv where the speaker is placed. Since you can position your LR speakers to be exactly in line with center of television, a phantom center will sound like its coming out of the picture, not above or below it. Second: you can get better speakers for the same cost since you can concentrate funds to fewer speakers.

Budget recommendation
If you're on a budget it is very possible you can get great home theater surround sound for $100-200 total! Buy used on craigslist, I have seen complete setup deals that cost $1000 sell for $100-$150 time after time. Speakers unlike tvs/monitors or other technology actually change very slow. High end speakers 10 years ago sound better than midrange speakers today. Because of audiophiles "upgrade bug" you can usually find very good deals. Try to stay within last 10 years. One caveat, buy and amplifier receiver with dolby digital supported (easy to find used). If you want HD sound (blu-ray or hddvd), you need one with hdmi support (you'll have to buy new). note: the improvement of hd sound can't even really be heard unless you have a right sound setup, and the improvement is small compared to the improvement of right sound system over wrong sound system.

Your post here is very very good. I'll just add a little commentary.

Best money spent
The best improvement/$$ spent is your speakers. If you watch movies
(home theater use) having a subwoofer is a must. It is better to spend $500/$100 on speakers/receiver, than $300/$300. The subwoofer, front 3 channels L,R,C are the most important and therefore money should be concentrated. Music does not require a center .


Agreed. For movies, nothing is more important than center first and sub second. Receiver budget should be about 1/4 to 1/3 of your budget.


The best place to buy cables for hookups is monoprice. Audioholics wrote a cost split guide where cables should be about %5 of your setup.


Yup! Monoprice is fantastic.


Center Channel importance in movies
%75 of non-subwoofer sound comes from your center channel in a movie. Audioholics ran thorough and comprehensive tests, the best center channel speaker is vast majority of cases a 3rd tower speaker/bookshelf. It is also usually a lot cheaper than a speaker specified as "center channel". It also has perfect pitch match. Vertically orientated center tower is best if you can (like your LR channels), however turning it horizontal is still better than "center specific" speakers.
can't find original article, but here is an offshoot discussion of it.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33771


Agreed again. The probably is dispersion. The only reason why center channels are they way they are today is for form reasons, that is most people want a horizontal center because its much easier to place than another bookshelf or tower. They can lay it in their cabinet for instance. Generally speaking, most centers are D'appolito configuration or the MTM (mid-tweeter-mid) you see today. The problem with this is lobing effects and off-axis dispersion. Here is an excellent tech discussion if you care:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-35955.html

Off the shelf speaker makers use a few "tricks" to help offset some of these problems. Paradigm for instance uses a lower crossover from tweeter to mid



Phantom Center
There also a growing movement of fans who prefer no center at all, called phantom center. This means that your L and R speaker will mimic having a center by having sounds emit at the same time
...


This one can be debated, I prefer having a center over a phantom. This is more doable with higher quality speakers but most people here on slick will run a HTIB complete set for instance. My speakers aren't in this category but I still prefer having a center. Why? It helps anchor the dialog in the center. Having a phantom center sounds more dispersed whereas a real center sounds like a single monopole source.


Lifestyles suck, even high end ones
I think the first statements in the wiki are worded to favorably toward lifestyle speakers. Anyone find in forums or reviews anywhere where a lifestyle speaker of any cost beat a slickdealed $50 tower or bookshelf for movie use
....


Agreed again and there's a post in the wiki in the beginning of this thread. You can buy a lifestyle system that can "beat" a tower say but its prohibitively expensive. For instance, the Sunfire CRM-2 ribbon cubes are tiny and $1600/pair. They utilize a ribbon tweeter and a push pull design on the sides with a 4" voice coil and 1" EXCURSION! This is heavy duty engineering just so you can have a small speaker. The fact of the matter is, a $600/pair (retail) tower can match its performance.



Budget recommendation
If you're on a budget it is very possible you can get great home theater surround sound for $100-200 total! Buy used on craigslist, I have seen complete setup deals that cost $1000 sell for $100-$150 time after time. Speakers unlike tvs/monitors or other technology actually change very slow. High end speakers 10 years ago sound better than midrange speakers today. Because of audiophiles "upgrade bug" you can usually find very good deals. Try to stay within last 10 years. One caveat, buy and amplifier receiver with dolby digital supported.

Used is the way to go if you don't mind hunting. Ebay is alright, audiogon is excellent, craigslist is iffy because most people there are selling your run-of-the-mill junky mass market stuff. I purchased my Onix Strata Minis for an exquisite price off audiogon.

hooray I'm glad I found this thread... I'm an audio noob and recently got a set of 2.1 computer speakers from the Speaker Company. http://www.thespeakercompany.com/MS215-21-PC-Speaker-System-P32C16.aspx

Can someone please take a look at the back of the sub (http://www.thespeakercompany.com/Assets/ProductPreview/ms21.5subback.jpg) and tell me what I need to connect this to a TV with basic cable + a DVD player? Is there any converter that will allow me to get audio from these speakers on a regular TV? What exactly is needed? Any help greatly appreciated.

hooray I'm glad I found this thread... I'm an audio noob and recently got a set of 2.1 computer speakers from the Speaker Company. http://www.thespeakercompany.com/MS215-21-PC-Speaker-System-P32C16.aspx

Can someone please take a look at the back of the sub (http://www.thespeakercompany.com/Assets/ProductPreview/ms21.5subback.jpg) and tell me what I need to connect this to a TV with basic cable + a DVD player? Is there any converter that will allow me to get audio from these speakers on a regular TV? What exactly is needed? Any help greatly appreciated.

Since this doesn't have a receiver to switch sources, I think the best bet for you is to hook up your DVD player to the TV and from the TV to the speakers. This is assuming your TV has analog audio outs. What does the back of the TV have?

Since this doesn't have a receiver to switch sources, I think the best bet for you is to hook up your DVD player to the TV and from the TV to the speakers. This is assuming your TV has analog audio outs. What does the back of the TV have?

It has everything...component, aux, hdmi, etc. Can I just get one of those red/white wires and run it from the audio out section of the TV to the sub?

It has everything...component, aux, hdmi, etc. Can I just get one of those red/white wires and run it from the audio out section of the TV to the sub?

No you can't, this sub is built like most computer subs where there is only a line-in. So basically, I'd say you'd have to hookup the DVD player to the TV and then the TV to the speaker set if you want to use these speakers for both TV and DVD.

If you do go this route, you'll likely need to hookup the DVD to TV with component and analog audio. It *could* work with just a single HDMI from DVD to TV but there's a good chance it won't convert. It may though and if you have a spare HDMI, give it a shot.

If you just want to use the speaker set with DVD, its much easier... just hookup the L/R on the DVD player to the speaker set.

Hey all

GREAT thread so far, but i'd like to make a request.

There is a legendary thread on how to build a cheap PC, either intel or AMD, and what components.

I'd REALLY like to see a similar format in the wiki here, if possible. I've been using onkyo equipment, but the big names seem to always be Dennon, Onkyo, and sometimes Yamaha.

Would it be possible to list some of the best receivers and speakers available, in the opinion of the thread moderators, and list the best prices seen for each?

I'm looking to upgrading my Onkyo HTiB soon, want upconversion, but main use is gaming so lag is no good.

thanks

I think this is a great idea, though, unfortunately, sound is much more personal. It's easy to measure how fast a hard disk or a processor is, much more difficult to go beyond the specifications and options of a set of speakers or a receiver.

My current personal favorite speakers are Klipsch's Reference line.. or the similar Paradigm's (I am a tower speaker guy).. Tough call. In terms of receivers, I think the bang for buck title problably goes to Onkyo, though I prefer Denon or Pioneer. I have heard a lot of great things from Yamaha fans, but I don't love the interface.. It's all a personal preference.

A great sub can make any system better. I own an AV123 MFW-15 that rocks the Casbah and highly recommend it. Velodyne also makes great subs. Polk makes good ones for low prices.. Here is what I consider to be the bible on high impact subs: link (http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11)

I think this is a great idea, though, unfortunately, sound is much more personal. It's easy to measure how fast a hard disk or a processor is, much more difficult to go beyond the specifications and options of a set of speakers or a receiver.

My current personal favorite speakers are Klipsch's Reference line.. or the similar Paradigm's (I am a tower speaker guy).. Tough call. In terms of receivers, I think the bang for buck title problably goes to Onkyo, though I prefer Denon or Pioneer. I have heard a lot of great things from Yamaha fans, but I don't love the interface.. It's all a personal preference.

A great sub can make any system better. I own an AV123 MFW-15 that rocks the Casbah and highly recommend it. Velodyne also makes great subs. Polk makes good ones for low prices.. Here is what I consider to be the bible on high impact subs: link (http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11)


Even if it is a personal choice, the same can be said about everything from video card manufacturers to motherboards. The basis may still be the same, but quality will be up to those who use them. Some will swear by one chipset, some by one company.

If the same theory was applied, it could help a lot of people here. I'm interested in a new onkyo setup, based on my previous experience. I don't care too much about hdmi, but i was upconversion with no lag, regardless of how it converts. Although i may go with a 1080p monitor, i'm probably gonna go with a 720p due to cost and distance from set

I will recycle my current HTiB speakers for now, but eventually i will replace them, one or 2 at a time. I do need a better receiver soon, however, and a watch on recommended onkyo receivers would help out a lot

Even if it is a personal choice, the same can be said about everything from video card manufacturers to motherboards. The basis may still be the same, but quality will be up to those who use them. Some will swear by one chipset, some by one company.

If the same theory was applied, it could help a lot of people here. I'm interested in a new onkyo setup, based on my previous experience. I don't care too much about hdmi, but i was upconversion with no lag, regardless of how it converts. Although i may go with a 1080p monitor, i'm probably gonna go with a 720p due to cost and distance from set

I will recycle my current HTiB speakers for now, but eventually i will replace them, one or 2 at a time. I do need a better receiver soon, however, and a watch on recommended onkyo receivers would help out a lot

Its my personal belief you can tell the difference between speakers up to about $5000/pair if you are an audio geek type (not audiophile). Above that, it becomes personal preference more than anything else. Most "normal" people would probably be able to tell to about $2000/pair.

jagoodie's preference for Klipsch Reference is a great example. I'm the opposite where I'm not a huge fan of Klipsch's speakers but prefer a more laid back presentation. But that doesn't mean Klipsch's are bad, its personal preference. When I try to help people with speakers, I try to get a benchmark of the sound they prefer. Sending someone to a local electronics place like Best Buy can at least let you listen to various designs. If you get an idea of what a person likes then you can recommend some other choices too. For instance if someone likes Klipsch, I'd point them also to look at BIC and Axiom who are some high value online vendors which are known for a brighter signature.

Receivers are a little easier at the low to mid range. You can buy by feature set and Onkyo has been on a roll in this regard for the last 2 model lines and that's why they do well on slick. But there are other factors as well. For sound quality I prefer Denon (and NAD, Rotel for the high end receiver). For a brighter sound and also good feature set, Yamaha. For a warmer sound with the best amp in the low/mid range, Harmon would be my pick.

The wiki may not be a bad idea. I'd try to come up with a system of ratings, similiar to car magazines. I'm not a huge fan of some of the audiophile terms like soundstaging or imaging. Off the type of my head, you could use stats like frequency response flatness, presentation (laid back, brighter, etc), internal cabinet construction (affects cabinet resonance), look/feel (how well it looks basically), off axis response (how well it sounds not in the sweet spot), amount of bass, bass bloat... maybe a few others.

hi, im new to this kind of stuff so i thought maybe you guys could help
im planning to get a "in a box" home theater system for our new theater room, the budget is around $500-$1000
is there anything specific i should look for when searching for one? should i get one with blu ray built in or are those overpriced right now?

the TV is going to be a 60in-73in DLP samsung or mitsubishi, im thinking samsung but im not sure yet

thanks

hi, im new to this kind of stuff so i thought maybe you guys could help
im planning to get a "in a box" home theater system for our new theater room, the budget is around $500-$1000
is there anything specific i should look for when searching for one? should i get one with blu ray built in or are those overpriced right now?

the TV is going to be a 60in-73in DLP samsung or mitsubishi, im thinking samsung but im not sure yet

thanks

If you want an in the box solution, the Onkyo sets are the easiest simplest way to go. None of these have blu-ray yet.

Blu-ray is up to you. You have to buy a player on your own though. No sets come with it. On black friday a few players went for $175. The best way to go in my opinion is get a PS3 on sale. Its the best player out there with full updates and a free game system :)

But its not the best way to go. Better is to buy the speakers separately and the receiver on its own. First, get something like the Onkyo 606 which is a high value receiver that comes up here on slick all the time.

Then you need speakers. You can get the small satellite sets that show up here all the time. (satellite speakers = bose size speakers if you don't know) They usually come with 5 small speakers + subwoofer.

Better yet is to jump on the some of the tower speaker deals from Polk or JBL that show up here all the time. If you go this route, get the sub on your own. This is the best value solution.

Last but not least is used. Speakers are fairly simple devices and hold up well for years if not abused. Ebay, craigslist, and audiogon are great for this.

I think I will post this with some elaboration in the wiki!

glad i found this thread

I've just updated the wiki here under the heading: I just got a TV or own a TV and now want a home theater system. What should I buy?:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?p=10770481#

Its a decent intro to buying a home theater system via slickdeals. Have a look and tell me what you think!

wow thanks

Is this center channel speaker http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200122&CTID=5002900

better than the Polk CS1 - $71.06 in the wiki? Price per performance?

I have friends that recommend it. Just seeing if anyone else likes it. thanks in advance.

Yamaha makes quality stuff and I am sure this speaker is nice, but I am concerned about it being 6 ohms. I am not an ohm expert, but I know most receivers are rated for 8. I'd stick with the Polk, personally.

Buy the center channel that matches your fronts. So if you have Polk Monitor 50s, buy the Polk Monitor series channel. This is for timber matching purposes.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=514

http://www.goodsound.com/howto/2001_08_01.htm

After jagoodie's suggestion, i decided to research the what the differences in ohms would mean. Here is a link to an informational post about 6 ohms versus 8 ohms etc. Apparently the lower the ohms the better the speaker SHOULD be...that being said..as jagoodie states..most of the receivers are rated at 8 ohms due..The higher end receivers have higher ohm ratings. but some of it is just marketing. anyway. It helped clarify some things for me. Basically what i got from the info was that while 6 ohm speakers will work with an 8 ohm rated receiver per se, it COULD tax the receiver and make it run hot if the power supply is not up to it. Also a SENSITIVITY rating (90 db) or will allow a better sound from a lower end receiver.. thanks jagoodie..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290111

found the polk cs1 at newegg in cherry or maple for $79.99 shipped. just an FYI.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=514

http://www.goodsound.com/howto/2001_08_01.htm

After jagoodie's suggestion, i decided to research the what the differences in ohms would mean. Here is a link to an informational post about 6 ohms versus 8 ohms etc. Apparently the lower the ohms the better the speaker SHOULD be...that being said..as jagoodie states..most of the receivers are rated at 8 ohms due..The higher end receivers have higher ohm ratings. but some of it is just marketing. anyway. It helped clarify some things for me. Basically what i got from the info was that while 6 ohm speakers will work with an 8 ohm rated receiver per se, it COULD tax the receiver and make it run hot if the power supply is not up to it. Also a SENSITIVITY rating (90 db) or will allow a better sound from a lower end receiver.. thanks jagoodie..

Let me clarify a little too to help out. Ohms is kind of a wierd spec because it doesn't help in explaining how hard it is to drive a speaker. You have to look at a graph to really know. Basically, a speaker can be say 8ohm at 2000hz but drive all the way down to 2ohm at 200hz. Its generally a function of how the crossover is designed.

I wouldn't worry about it. Most lower-budget speakers are made to be driven by lower priced gear. Polk designs stuff pretty well for this.

....
Agreed again and there's a post in the wiki in the beginning of this thread. You can buy a lifestyle system that can "beat" a tower say but its prohibitively expensive. For instance, the Sunfire CRM-2 ribbon cubes are tiny and $1600/pair. They utilize a ribbon tweeter and a push pull design on the sides with a 4" voice coil and 1" EXCURSION! This is heavy duty engineering just so you can have a small speaker. The fact of the matter is, a $600/pair (retail) tower can match its performance.


Interesting. I know about ribbon tweeters, do they put out better midrange than normal speakers. Will male dialogue in movies sound good on these?

Interesting. I know about ribbon tweeters, do they put out better midrange than normal speakers. Will male dialogue in movies sound good on these?

Well, they are tweeters so they only put out highs not midranges but they're are ribbon based midranges as well.

There are people who like ribbons (and the similiar planar magnetic technology) and some who don't. I fall into the former camp. Ribbons and planars generally have very fast transients and as a tweeter can reach very high. The drawback is poorer off-axis response and sometimes higher order distortions which may or may not be audible depending on who you ask. To me the pinpoint speed of a planar or ribbon is fantastic and you can hear details more crisply. There are some excellent standard dome tweeters that can do this as well however. Examples of this are ScanSpeak's Revelator series like the 9500 and their AirCirc tweeter.

Don't buy a speaker just cause its a ribbon unless you know what to listen for. Actually, the easiest way to hear a planar speaker, similiarish to a ribbon, is to head to your local best buy's magnolia section. The cheapest Martin Logan has a ribbon tweeter and 2 woofers. The Martin Logans above that one are very odd if you walk up to it. Its a big rounded surface with holes. That is the famous ML electrostat which plays mids and highs through that one planar magnetic surface. Demo both to get an idea of what this technology sounds like!

Well, they are tweeters so they only put out highs not midranges but they're are ribbon based midranges as well. The sunfire's are 8.25" tall which is a lot larger than most micro speakers. They can almost be considered small bookshelf speakers. I can't find any Frequency response specs anywhere on the web so I have my doubts.

edit found some specs.
These speakers were found on slickdeals.
Note manufacturer’s always put overly optimistic specs, the actual useable FR response tends to be bit less. E.g, they spec 55hz , you’re looking at more useable range of 65-70hz+.

Polk monitor 30 bookshelves. $90/pair 55Hz - 25kHz
Polk monitor 50 tower speakers $90/each 42Hz - 25kHz
polk rti8 tower speakers $150/each 30Hz-27kHz (40hz-26khz -3db)
sunfire CRM-2 $800/each 95hz-40khz http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm.

remember, recommended crossover is 60-80hz for HT use. The CRM-2 can not do this. The 3 polks can all do 80hz easily while the two polk towers can do 60hz easily. While the crm-2 can go very high, the importance of midrange dwarfs this for HT use. This is where much of the dialogue is at.


The better ones offer digital input (SPDIF). from wiki
Isn't digital input required for real surround (not simulated) dolby digital and better formats. IF this is the case computer speakers without don't even support surround. correct me if I'm wrong.

Cleaned up wiki a bit.

Moved from wiki here.


The reason for this is a concept called timbre matching. The front speaker set should form a cohesive sound so nothing stands out. If you buy a completely different center, the sound will stick out and will sound discombobulated.

Ideally you could buy another tower as a center but for most of us, this is just not feasible.

Now for rear and side speakers, matching is less important. You can do just about anything here. You can buy more towers, you can use old speakers, or if you're handy, you can put in in-wall or in-ceiling speakers. Of course this takes some work installing and wiring but this is all up to you.

The sunfire's are 8.25" tall which is a lot larger than most micro speakers. They can almost be considered small bookshelf speakers. I can't find any Frequency response specs anywhere on the web so I have my doubts.

edit found some specs.
These speakers were found on slickdeals.
Note manufacturer’s always put overly optimistic specs, the actual useable FR response tends to be bit less. E.g, they spec 55hz , you’re looking at more useable range of 65-70hz+.

Polk monitor 30 bookshelves. $90/pair 55Hz - 25kHz
Polk monitor 50 tower speakers $90/each 42Hz - 25kHz
polk rti8 tower speakers $150/each 30Hz-27kHz (40hz-26khz -3db)
sunfire CRM-2 $800/each 95hz-40khz http://www.sunfire.com/CR.htm.

remember, recommended crossover is 60-80hz for HT use. The CRM-2 can not do this. The 3 polks can all do 80hz easily while the two polk towers can do 60hz easily. While the crm-2 can go very high, the importance of midrange dwarfs this for HT use. This is where much of the dialogue is at.


I've seen and heard these guys live at 6ave which is local to me. They are very small for a bookshelf and I'd classify them as a oversized satellite.

I heard these guys run full range without a sub and I think that 95hz is very conservative. I'd say it can push easily into the high 70s which is ok for a 80hz crossover point.

Compare to the towers they had there, I listened to a Paradigm Monitor 7 and a Kef IQ of similiar price, both about $600. I'd say, without looking at it, the Sunfire can hold its own to about moderate SPL levels. The superior tweeter gave it better highs than both. Midrange was surprisingly good and very, very close. It was the mid-bass region where the 2 towers were definately better.

But I think this is a good illustration of what feats of engineering you need to get near-tower performance out of a satellite. These guys are NOT cheap but they do a really cool job of emulating performance. I'd say they sound better than the Polk Monitor series which like many lower priced towers suffer from cheap cabinets without enough bracing and damping.


from wiki
Isn't digital input required for real surround (not simulated) dolby digital and better formats. IF this is the case computer speakers without don't even support surround. correct me if I'm wrong.

Cleaned up wiki a bit.

No, you can run 5 cables from the source (dvd player say) to the receiver and then another cable to the sub. Not reommended though since you have do a digital->analog->analog->digital->analog conversion through the path.