Was Anyone at the Walmart in LongIsland?

[bigalpoulos]

Just curious of any of you fellow SDers happend to be at that store during the tragic event.

Cell Phone Footage:: WARNING GRAPHIC::: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f55_1227894806


full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/business/29walmart.html?bl&ex=1228107600&en=95e0984e8f92cc7c&ei=5087%0A

The throng of Wal-Mart shoppers had been building all night, filling sidewalks and stretching across a vast parking lot at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, N.Y. At 3:30 a.m., the Nassau County police had to be called in for crowd control, and an officer with a bullhorn pleaded for order.
Tension grew as the 5 a.m. opening neared. Someone taped up a crude poster: “Blitz Line Starts Here.”
By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault. Six to 10 workers inside tried to push back, but it was hopeless.
Suddenly, witnesses and the police said, the doors shattered, and the shrieking mob surged through in a blind rush for holiday bargains. One worker, Jdimytai Damour, 34, was thrown back onto the black linoleum tiles and trampled in the stampede that streamed over and around him. Others who had stood alongside Mr. Damour trying to hold the doors were also hurled back and run over, witnesses said.

Some workers who saw what was happening fought their way through the surge to get to Mr. Damour, but he had been fatally injured, the police said. Emergency workers tried to revive Mr. Damour, a temporary worker hired for the holiday season, at the scene, but he was pronounced dead an hour later at Franklin Hospital Medical Center in Valley Stream.

Four other people, including a 28-year-old woman who was described as eight months pregnant, were treated at the hospital for minor injuries.

Detective Lt. Michael Fleming, who is in charge of the investigation for the Nassau police, said the store lacked adequate security. He called the scene “utter chaos” and said the “crowd was out of control.” As for those who had run over the victim, criminal charges were possible, the lieutenant said. “I’ve heard other people call this an accident, but it is not,” he said. “Certainly it was a foreseeable act.”

But even with videos from the store’s surveillance cameras and the accounts of witnesses, Lieutenant Fleming and other officials acknowledged that it would be difficult to identify those responsible, let alone to prove culpability.

Some shoppers who had seen the stampede said they were shocked. One of them, Kimberly Cribbs of Queens, said the crowd had acted like “savages.” Shoppers behaved badly even as the store was being cleared, she recalled.

“When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, ‘I’ve been on line since yesterday morning,’ ” Ms. Cribbs told The Associated Press. “They kept shopping.”

Wal-Mart security officials and the police cleared the store, swept up the shattered glass and locked the doors until 1 p.m., when it reopened to a steady stream of calmer shoppers who passed through the missing doors and battered door jambs, apparently unaware that anything had happened.

Ugly shopping scenes, a few involving injuries, have become commonplace during the bargain-hunting ritual known as Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. The nation’s largest retail group, the National Retail Federation, said it had never heard of a worker being killed on Black Friday.

Wal-Mart declined to provide details of the stampede, but said in a statement that it had tried to prepare by adding staff members. Still, it was unclear how many security workers it had at the Valley Stream store for the opening on Friday. The Green Acres Mall provides its own security to supplement the staffs of some large stores, but it did not appear that Wal-Mart was one of them.

A Wal-Mart spokesman, Dan Folgleman, called it a “tragic situation,” and said the victim had been hired from a temporary staffing agency and assigned to maintenance work. Wal-Mart, in a statement issued at its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., said: “The safety and security of our customers and associates is our top priority. Our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families at this tragic time.”

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[raiders710]

i been to that stores about 5 times, during weekdays it's OK, but weekends it's very crowded.

[cooljoe613]

i been to that stores about 5 times, during weekdays it's OK, but weekends it's very crowded.

the world has gone mad for a stupid $100 OFF THEY KILL AN INNOCENT PERSON THEY ALL SHOULD BE LOCKED UP FOR LIFE PERIOD

[loved1]

The store should have done a better job of crowd management. There is a lot of anticipation after people have spent all night standing in line. BF has been going on long enough that this was foreseeable. That's why some stores hand out tickets, manage the lines, and only allow a certain number of people in the store at a time.

[sonic99]

that's really pathetic, but you can't expect much from the people that live in that area.

[bigalpoulos]

personally I think its appalling that with 2000+ people not ONE stopped to help the poor guy up. Instead they just ran over him for some stupid deals. Its like a step down for humans.

[gosee]

lol i'd line up to see that

*edit*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZSulclZd0

@ 0:51, and 1:07

[403forbidden]

You need to understand though that if anyone had stopped to help the poor guy, they would have been trampled over as well. That's what happens when there is a huge crowd rushing in. The people at the front cannot stop, they just need to keep moving or they themselves will get crushed.

[johny24]

I have shopped at that walmart B4...Wasnt there that day..

WOW!! like DAMM!!

THere wasn'y anything that special..

[gosee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmA-2cRF124

lol people

[lilbuddy]

Wow, if that woman suffered a miscarriage because of that...Wal-Mart will be paying very very dearly for that. I can see that going to at least $10 million +.

Sad sad sad.

[coolnyc]

Wow, if that woman suffered a miscarriage because of that...Wal-Mart will be paying very very dearly for that. I can see that going to at least $10 million +.

Sad sad sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZSulclZd0

Dude that what happen to her.

That just so sad.... What she was thinking shopping during BF while Pregnant but then again Those shoppers are a bunch of farking IDIOT who doesn't care about anyone else but themself.

[Sim-X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmA-2cRF124

lol people
yea exactly, doesn't surprise me - sad

[JayVee7777]

Was Anyone at the Walmart in LongIsland?


Evidently, lots of people were...

[yuugotserved]

r.i.p to the walmart worker. i wonder if there will be more cops next year and what walmart would respond to this. did walmart respond in any way?

[nahsay]

Wow, if that woman suffered a miscarriage because of that...Wal-Mart will be paying very very dearly for that. I can see that going to at least $10 million +.

Sad sad sad.


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6529135


Four others were also hurt in the crush, including a 28-year-old woman who was 8-months pregnant. She was taken to a nearby hospital, where doctors determined her baby was fine. The other injuries were said to be minor.

[netsonic]

that's really pathetic, but you can't expect much from the people that live in that area.

throw light on that part

[pdrucker]

ive been in mosh pits at concerts where your purposefully pushing into people, and even in them its just common courtesy if someone falls you grab them by their hand, shirt, or hair and pick them up... it takes a freaking second. all of those people who stepped on or over that guy should be ashamed of themselves.

its not walmarts fault, there are thousands of walmarts throughout the country that open their doors in the same chaotic manner.

[cdmoore74]

Have we all gone mad? We are the most intelligent animals on this planet and a group of people killed another human being over toys, tv's and computers which by all accounts were bad deals to begin with. Sure you can blame wal-mart in this event. You can also blame airplane manufactures for 911, you can blame gun manufactures for all killings done by guns or you can blame video games for all the violence. We can hold people responsible for these actions or we can get rid of black friday, get rid of airplanes, get rid of guns and get rid of video games so we can live peaceful lives.
Look at what happened in India on the same day. Over 130 people shot dead over what; a militant group trying to get their point across. Try not to lose sleep over this because you will continue to see and hear crap like this until the earth is no more.

[unsouled]

You guys don't seem to have a firm grasp over what happens during a crush like what happened at walmart. It was a simple effect of a large number of people in the back pushing fowards. At this unfortunate event, the back end of the crowd was pushing the front hard enough to destroy the doors(if I remember right, it was before they even opened the doors, but without a link its unsubstantiated). The people who end up trampling over the guy don't really have much choice least they want to be trampled as well, nor could they possibly know there was a man down on the ground until they were pretty much on top of him. I really don't think there is anyone that could be directly blamed for the mans death(of which was a death from a heart attack). Then again, its all mental masturbation until someone releases the CCTV video.

Gotta love how great humans are when they get into groups.

[Vision33r]

Pretty ridiculous and stupid to wait out all night for lukewarm deals when I'm enjoying 25-35% off deals in the comfort of my living room with Live.com deals on eBay.

The best item, the $698 Samsung Plasma was ho-hum after taxes when you can get it about the same price at Frys shipped to your house.

Ignorance is bliss as always.

[JimmiesMommy]

personally I think its appalling that with 2000+ people not ONE stopped to help the poor guy up. Instead they just ran over him for some stupid deals. Its like a step down for humans.

4 people did try to help him & ended up with injuries themselves.

[enchantedsky]

Hey guys, I used to work in the same area as this Walmart. (I worked in the Radioshack in the mall that is next to this Walmart actually) It's a horrible Walmart. It's hugely overcrowded with people on Saturdays, and takes forever just to buy even one item. It's usually a mess in there too with products misplaced in different areas.

Not to be controversial or anything, but it's in a mostly black neighborhood. For some, the normal stereotypes about blacks come to mind. What's interesting though is that many of the blacks who live here are educated and affluent (wealthy) ------- many owning houses, cars, and usually buy hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of stuff from me on commission. They're usually very friendly, speak proper English (no ebonics), and what not. I'm referring to many people who live in this area, not everyone is like this.

You would think that a trampling incident would occur in probably an impoverished area where people are poor and uneducated, but yet, the opposite is true for the people of Valley Stream, Long Island, NY. Just wanted to point that out.

[slick_chicky]

This is very sad. For those who say they would help that’s great if you were physically able too, however I was once at an out door standing concert. Metalica, Alice and chains too candle box, Bec. The crowd started to press together and push forward. My friend and I are both 5 foot 2 and 110 lbs, and we had no control what so ever of where we went. They squished us so hard we could barely expand our lungs to get air. It was terrifying. Mean while as we were being pushed forward we did in fact suddenly find ourselves having to step up on, or trip over something or someone. When I tried to look down I still could not see what it was due to being too compressed against other people. I do believe it was a person. I was powerless to help and it still haunts me today.

[seancashmere]

Hey guys, I used to work in the same area as this Walmart. (I worked in the Radioshack in the mall that is next to this Walmart actually) It's a horrible Walmart. It's hugely overcrowded with people on Saturdays, and takes forever just to buy even one item. It's usually a mess in there too with products misplaced in different areas.

Not to be controversial or anything, but it's in a mostly black neighborhood. For some, the normal stereotypes about blacks come to mind. What's interesting though is that many of the blacks who live here are educated and affluent (wealthy) ------- many owning houses, cars, and usually buy hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of stuff from me on commission. They're usually very friendly, speak proper English (no ebonics), and what not. I'm referring to many people who live in this area, not everyone is like this.

You would think that a trampling incident would occur in probably an impoverished area where people are poor and uneducated, but yet, the opposite is true for the people of Valley Stream, Long Island, NY. Just wanted to point that out.

Yeah, really and truly, the people who live in Valley Stream and some points to the East have nice homes and are educated enough, but the people who shop at the Valley Stream Walmart are terrible. They are under educated and poor. Many come from Jamaica and South Ozone Park, Queens, the projects, Rosedale and the surrounding areas and are very low class. Of course I'm over generalizing, but there is an overwhelming contingent of ghetto people who shop at the Valley Stream Walmart as there is no Walmart in New York City proper.

I hear people blaming the lack of Walmart security, and honestly, in an area where even the movie theaters have metal detectors (which I find disgusting), you can say it's a valid argument. But in Walmart's defense, this was wholly not foreseeable. They broke down the door. I went there about 7pm on Black Friday and saw the crumpled door jam and the broken glass. I also didn't wait in line, found exactly what I wanted and was in and out in about 3 minutes. Moot point! Crowds of tactless people is what ruined that mans family. Not Walmart's lack of clairvoyance. They'd need 100 security guards to deal with those ignorant, overzealots. The police that showed up before 4am should never have left. But... shoulda, coulda, woulda right? Let's hope the police can prosecute a few of the people responsible.

[roma11_22]

I think that all stroes should stop doorbusters because of this.

They should start a lottery system ...A week ahead people register in store and a drawing takes place on Black Friday...Or buy online(limited quantities) so everyone has equal opportunity.

Who agrees with me..

[jennrn]

I think that all stroes should stop doorbusters because of this.

They should start a lottery system ...A week ahead people register in store and a drawing takes place on Black Friday...Or buy online(limited quantities) so everyone has equal opportunity.

Who agrees with me..

Don't some stores on BF actually hand out little tickets for items? I haven't gone shopping on BF for years so I don't know what happens now. I used to live near Green Acres Mall. A few years ago at the the Sunrise Multiplex movie theatre, Godfather 3 came out, there was a shooting inside the movie theatre. I avoided it and the mall.

[roma11_22]

Don't some stores on BF actually hand out little tickets for items? I haven't gone shopping on BF for years so I don't know what happens now. I used to live near Green Acres Mall. A few years ago at the the Sunrise Multiplex movie theatre, Godfather 3 came out, there was a shooting inside the movie theatre. I avoided it and the mall.


Hi I mentioned they should give out tickets a week ahead and do a drawing.

[MistyQ]

Have we all gone mad? We are the most intelligent animals on this planet and a group of people killed another human being over toys, tv's and computers which by all accounts were bad deals to begin with. Sure you can blame wal-mart in this event. You can also blame airplane manufactures for 911, you can blame gun manufactures for all killings done by guns or you can blame video games for all the violence. We can hold people responsible for these actions or we can get rid of black friday, get rid of airplanes, get rid of guns and get rid of video games so we can live peaceful lives.
Look at what happened in India on the same day. Over 130 people shot dead over what; a militant group trying to get their point across. Try not to lose sleep over this because you will continue to see and hear crap like this until the earth is no more.
That's a debatable point, especially in light of this insanity. We are certainly the most toxic!
I think that all stroes should stop doorbusters because of this.

They should start a lottery system ...A week ahead people register in store and a drawing takes place on Black Friday...Or buy online(limited quantities) so everyone has equal opportunity.

Who agrees with me..

I do. They should let people pre-order, lottery, something. First come first served. Then no one needs to be there first thing in the morning. People prove year after year that they can't behave themselves.

[n4cag]

Maybe riot gear should be made a standard uniform for the poor employees who have to open the door?

[DTphonehome]

I've been to that Walmart a couple times when I had no choice but to shop there vs all the other stores in the area. Even on the best of days, the place is a dump, and the type of people who shop there make it an incredibly unpleasant experience. As others have mentioned, there's metal detectors at the movie theater nearby, and the whole Green Acres mall is the ghetto-est place in the area. I wouldn't go there even if they were GIVING away TVs - not if I had to deal with their usual clientele. Many of whom work at the stores there and are exactly the kind of people I can see getting completely out of hand and stampeding for deals. Or possibly just causing violence and ruckus for kicks. Amazing how some people just refuse to be civilized.

The only store I shop at with any regularity in the area is Home Depot (right next door to the ill-fated Walmart), and I won't go back as soon as the Lowe's opens up on Rockaway Tpk.

[JNKryo]

I was actually in that mall a few weeks ago when there was that stabbing outside JCP. Literally blood everywhere.

[scotty123]

AAFES ( bx/px ) does this and works out very well - fair and orderly .....

I think that all stroes should stop doorbusters because of this.

They should start a lottery system ...A week ahead people register in store and a drawing takes place on Black Friday...Or buy online(limited quantities) so everyone has equal opportunity.

Who agrees with me..

[PocketTwos]

What I don't understand is how police can justify not making ANY arrests for this. If you are part of a mob, you are responsible for what the mob does. I am not a lawyer, but it doesn't make sense to me why no one has been charged.

I felt so sick to my stomach when I read the article on Saturday. He was a temporary worker, trying to make some money. It wouldn't matter if he was a shopper or worker, but still...it just sickens me.

Haven't there been people charged with crimes because they were part of a mob?? I thought I remember reading about a case where 16 people were charged with manslaughter in Louisiana because they were drunk and trampled someone to death to get away from the cops. No one person single-handedly killed the person, but because they were a mob, they were all considered responsible.

[DooDahMan]

I heard that at our local Wal-Mart they let shoppers in early and they went to the doorbuster products that were wrapped up in plastic(so they couldn't be grabbed by the shoppers), put their hand on it and they were able to buy them later. I will try to get more info from my niece who witnessed the above protocol.

I purposely do not go to Wal Mart on BF because of the unruly, rude and bad vibes there. :mad:

[lokee]

This type of incident was predicted here in this forum. Its sad to see that some people put greed above life and didnt think twice about taking that life.
There will be fingers pointed as to who was at fault, the greedy mob or lack of crowd control at Wal Mart.
How will this affect future BF? More security? No lines forming before stores open? lottery type system for doorbusters?

[whatty]

walmart still hasn't learned to use a simple ticket system for people waiting in line. I've seen staples and CC done that where store employee hands you the item you have tickets for. Why does walmart always have to make it some kind of free for all brawl madness? Is that entertainment to them?
Even Target was nice enough to make a special store directory on where the hot items are placed.

[PocketTwos]

walmart still hasn't learned to use a simple ticket system for people waiting in line. I've seen staples and CC done that where store employee hands you the item you have tickets for. Why does walmart always have to make it some kind of free for all brawl madness? Is that entertainment to them?
Even Target was nice enough to make a special store directory on where the hot items are placed.

During one of Walmart's "Secret Saturday" sales (the one where you could buy the 80GB PS3 for $399 and get a free $100 Walmart gift card), I asked the manager why they didn't give out tickets on Black Friday and for their secret sales. His response: "Because what if someone drops their ticket accidentally and then comes up to complain?! No, the way we do it is better because there is less confusion and arguing; it's first come first served."

He wouldn't even listen to my response, which was along the lines of "Was that response supposed to be a joke?" I couldn't believe that was his rationalization for not giving out tickets.

* The day that I went to Walmart for that secret sale, there were two older ladies who had been waiting since 4:30am and the store didn't open until 8am. I was second in line, but by 8 there was a pretty big crowd of people. No one was waiting in line, and as soon as the doors opened, it was a free for all back to the electronics department. The two women were slower than everyone, and ended up at the back of the line. I myself knew that would happen, so I booked it to the electronics department and got in line first. I shouted out to the two women and told them to get in line right in front of me. 5 or 6 people behind me started complaining, I didn't give two shits. It was unbelievable how rude and selfish the people were. Everyone waiting knew the two women had been there since 4:30am, but they couldn't give two shits. *

[shoppinqueen]

Walmart created this situation.You want to attract crowds of shoppers? You want people standing in line for hours? Then you need to have a system of crowd management.

I feel badly for the poor worker and his family.Since he was a temp worker I'm willing to bet Walmart will get off without having to give his family much,if anything.

[missg]

Hooray for ignorance! :rolleyes:

You took the words right out of my mouth. :rolleyes:

[lostdecoy]

Yea, I avoid this Walmart whenever I can - I live in North Valley Stream and have only shopped their once...and that's when out of desperation needed to find a place with no line for the Wii the night before. When they did the Wii launch it was MUCH more orderly, they gave out numbers, and the people on line were A LOT more civil (I was third in line and those in front & in back were very nice and even held my spot to get coffee for people and allowed me to pull up my car to take a little nap). I was shocked at the way it was done...I went with one of my larger guy friends since I expected a lot different.

I hate to say it but I am not really surprised it happened here, it's sad no matter where it happens but I have to agree with previously posted...a lot of "rough" cliental come and shop at the store. I don't dare shop at Best Buys, Target, Circuit Citys, or Costcos in that Valley Stream & Lawrence section for that reason. Even the parking lots on a GOOD day is like hell on earth!! I'll keep my business in Westbury.

Valley Stream in general isn't a bad town, we have really good school districts and plenty of small businesses, taxes are high due to it being a nice place to raise your kids...but some areas of Elmont and towns West of here leave more to be desired (yes, I am not far from Elmont and walking down Dutch Broadway one of my friends was yelled at from someone at a car saying "Go home whitey!") It really saddens me that it's come to this.

[makandash]

Crowd Control??? It has nothing to do with crowd control. It has to do with a bunch of pathetic losers who don't care that they take a human life if it means saving a few dollars. My Gosh! These people should be totally ashamed of themselves. This is such a horrible tragedy that happened over saving a few dollars. These are people that have no respect for anyone or anything. They don't even respect themselves. If they did they never would have let this happen. How can a human being TRAMPLE another human being and not even think about what they are doing!
Because they are pathetic and a disgrace to the human race.


The store should have done a better job of crowd management. There is a lot of anticipation after people have spent all night standing in line. BF has been going on long enough that this was foreseeable. That's why some stores hand out tickets, manage the lines, and only allow a certain number of people in the store at a time.

[OwenKealy]

I would like to see each and every one of those assholes who pushed through the doors tried for manslaughter - with the exception of the couple people who (according to a post in this thread) tried to stop and help.

Everyone besides those few had a hand in that worker's death. They should either spend some time in jail, or have their wages garnished and the money given to the dead worker's family.

[Vision33r]

From my analysis. Although people in the front claim they were pushed from behind.

Why aren't there any more people being trampled?

The fact is that the folks in the front being pushed from behind did have control and didn't fell down meaning there were equally pushing forward not pushing against people from behind.

Only one person is knocked down because he's the only "one" pushing against the crowd, was the man who got trampled and died.

Although not everyone directly caused the death everybody there who contributed has blood stained on their hands.

You should be ashamed and pray that God has mercy on you.

[WhipperSnapper]

You need to understand though that if anyone had stopped to help the poor guy, they would have been trampled over as well. That's what happens when there is a huge crowd rushing in. The people at the front cannot stop, they just need to keep moving or they themselves will get crushed.

This is probably what happened. Every year people die from getting crushed at sports events or even going to pray at a holy site. I guess folks just get so excited that the crowd pushes on itself.

[PocketTwos]

You need to understand though that if anyone had stopped to help the poor guy, they would have been trampled over as well. That's what happens when there is a huge crowd rushing in. The people at the front cannot stop, they just need to keep moving or they themselves will get crushed.

It's thinking like this that contributes to mob mentality and the violence that occurred. Have you ever heard of The Bystander Effect? That's what happened here. People were so self-involved with getting their Black Friday deals that even when they saw someone in need of help, they assumed someone else would help, and did nothing.

You can paint the picture however you like. I know that if I had been there and seen someone on the floor in need of help, I would have tried to help.

[Gemini8511]

That's New York for ya...everyone's to good to help...

[longislandmom]

that's really pathetic, but you can't expect much from the people that live in that area.

Yes, unfortunately I agree with this statement. This store was located very near Queens.

I listened to psychologists on TV discuss a "pack mentality" with a crowd, plus the lack of security and the amount of time these people spent waiting in line. Also, that people had lost their "personal space"(?!) Obviously not an excuse for what happened, but someone trying to explain the unbelieveable actions of this mob.

Someone had also suggested that "if Wal-Mart had offered cookies and hot chocolate, for example" the people in line might have been feeling not so "pressured." OK...

[PocketTwos]

Yes, unfortunately I agree with this statement. This store was located very near Queens.

I listened to psychologists on TV discuss a "pack mentality" with a crowd, plus the lack of security and the amount of time these people spent waiting in line. Also, that people had lost their "personal space"(?!) Obviously not an excuse for what happened, but someone trying to explain the unbelieveable actions of this mob.

Someone had also suggested that "if Wal-Mart had offered cookies and hot chocolate, for example" the people in line might have been feeling not so "pressured." OK...

I did several studies in undergrad and graduate school about mob mentality. The results were unbelievable. The psychological effects that being part of a mob (or as you refer to as "pack mentality") bring us down several knotches in our evolution. Our minds focus on our goal, and our sense of morality goes out the door. It's a sickening reminder that we are, after all, just animals on this planet.

[shhaggy]

personally I think its appalling that with 2000+ people not ONE stopped to help the poor guy up. Instead they just ran over him for some stupid deals. Its like a step down for humans.

To be fair, once a stampede like that starts, you can't stop. You're being pushed with the entire force of everyone behind you, forward. And if you resist enough, you'll fall to the ground and suffer the same fate.

It's thinking like this that contributes to mob mentality and the violence that occurred. Have you ever heard of The Bystander Effect? That's what happened here. People were so self-involved with getting their Black Friday deals that even when they saw someone in need of help, they assumed someone else would help, and did nothing.

You can paint the picture however you like. I know that if I had been there and seen someone on the floor in need of help, I would have tried to help.

You clearly have no idea how stampedes work. How on Earth are you supposed to stop the wave of hundreds of people behind you, pushing? It's impossible. Resist enough and you'll fall to the ground and suffer the same fate.

[bigalpoulos]

To be fair, once a stampede like that starts, you can't stop. You're being pushed with the entire force of everyone behind you, forward. And if you resist enough, you'll fall to the ground and suffer the same fate.



You clearly have no idea how stampedes work. How on Earth are you supposed to stop the wave of hundreds of people behind you, pushing? It's impossible. Resist enough and you'll fall to the ground and suffer the same fate.

Well then I just speak for myself, If I was there I would have done everything I could to have saved that guy.

updated first Post::WARNING:: Very Graphic::: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f55_1227894806

[PatLovestoShop]

Greed. It's pathetic to trip over materialistic things.

[shhaggy]

Well then I just speak for myself, If I was there I would have done everything I could to have saved that guy.

updated first Post::WARNING:: Very Graphic::: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f55_1227894806

I would have tried to grab him and pull him with me. But you're committing suicide if you leave your feet, and the idea that you can stay on your feet and not move with the crowd is more than a little naive. This was not an old person, this was a healthy 34 year old man. If he could be knocked over to begin with, what makes you think one person working against this crowd would be able to help?

[bigalpoulos]

I would have tried to grab him and pull him with me. But you're committing suicide if you leave your feet, and the idea that you can stay on your feet and not move with the crowd is more than a little naive. This was not an old person, this was a healthy 34 year old man. If he could be knocked over to begin with, what makes you think one person working against this crowd would be able to help?

well, first being 285 lbs and 6ft 4 would probably help. All Im saying is, if I was there I would have done SOMETHING.

[breezygirl]

These are people that have no respect for anyone or anything.

Sadly there are people like this - they truly do not respect and care for others. After working in foster care and with the courts for awhile I saw this in some of the clients. What's even worse is the kids who grow up in homes like that who learn and repeat the behavior.I think it was a combo of this plus mob mentality and mounting pressure from the back of the crowd. The people at the front had no reason to push against the doors, it's the people getting restless in the back.

Speaking of mob mentality, my husband and a few extended family took what we thought was a shortcut to get home from Thanksgiving, which happens to go by a back enterance to an outlet mall. We had no idea the massive amount of people there would be going to a midnight opening promotion for BF. There were people parked all along the back road and running across the road to walk through an open field toward the mall. My husband rolled down the window to ask the walkers what was going on and one of the guys goes "F--- YOU!" and my husband responded, "Really? F-U? I was just asking a question!" and the guy laughed and said the mall was opening at midnight. I mean why be so rude for no reason, we weren't even going there, it's not like we wanted his parking spot. I can't imagine the outlet had any deal that great. In my experience this mall usually has the same deals either the day before T-giv or for the full weekend after.

[tyjasky]

The article states

Mr. Charles said he was angry that no one from Wal-Mart had contacted him or had explained how his son had died. Maria Damour, Mr. Damour’s mother, was in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but was on her way back to the United States, Mr. Charles said.

Pretty pathetic on Walmarts part....IMO

[bubbachuck]

You guys don't seem to have a firm grasp over what happens during a crush like what happened at walmart. It was a simple effect of a large number of people in the back pushing fowards. At this unfortunate event, the back end of the crowd was pushing the front hard enough to destroy the doors(if I remember right, it was before they even opened the doors, but without a link its unsubstantiated). The people who end up trampling over the guy don't really have much choice least they want to be trampled as well, nor could they possibly know there was a man down on the ground until they were pretty much on top of him. I really don't think there is anyone that could be directly blamed for the mans death(of which was a death from a heart attack). Then again, its all mental masturbation until someone releases the CCTV video.

Gotta love how great humans are when they get into groups.

i agree. the herd behavior of humans is very shocking...i think what makes this incident worse is that black friday is supposed to be a day of joy and our own negative stereotypes of walmart shoppers...

list of human stampedes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stampede#List_of_human_stampedes)

[bubbachuck]

I did several studies in undergrad and graduate school about mob mentality. The results were unbelievable. The psychological effects that being part of a mob (or as you refer to as "pack mentality") bring us down several knotches in our evolution. Our minds focus on our goal, and our sense of morality goes out the door. It's a sickening reminder that we are, after all, just animals on this planet.

yea. i read a little about this before too. it's truly frightening. i can't even imagine what that must feel like, especially afterwards when you realize what you've done.

[PocketTwos]

yea. i read a little about this before too. it's truly frightening. i can't even imagine what that must feel like, especially afterwards when you realize what you've done.

Well, the really scary thing is that people do not take responsibility for what happens. Your statement assumes that people feel bad afterwards; from my studies, this doesn't happen. It's the Bystander Effect, which was first studied when a woman in New York City was being raped in an alley. She was screaming for help, and the neighbors living in the apartment building all reported hearing her scream for help, but everyone assumed someone else would help. NO ONE called the police until 15 minutes after the attack was over, when the woman had to go into a store and beg an employee to call.

I know this is a little different than what happened at Walmart, but it's the same idea. No one took responsibility; everyone was more focused on getting what they want than helping save a human life. It's disgusting what people will do.

IN regards to the Walmart incident, I bet if you interviewed every single person who was part of that mob, less than 2% would take responsibility and say "I could/should have helped." Even if you did this anonymously, using a survey, less than 2%....

[shhaggy]

well, first being 285 lbs and 6ft 4 would probably help. All Im saying is, if I was there I would have done SOMETHING.

At best that's the size of two people. Compared to HUNDREDS pushing you forward. I would think you need at least 10 people, working together, in order to get this guy help. And chances are, with people stampeding like that and packed to tight together, most of them didn't even know that a guy fell down and was being trampled until they literally felt their feet stepping on him. And by then of course it's too late to make any kind of organized effort to help.You can't see ANYTHING but the people standing around you in a situation like that.

[sicsoul]

That's just sad... hopefully walmart finally gets it and starts doing tickets or lines or something... i hope that man's family sues walmart - they are nearly as responsible as the crowd because they have seen these things escalate over the years and still allow the free for all.

I don't understand why they don't keep all of the big items back in the warehouse or in a seperate area and people line up to get their item, just like almost every other store.
Even in the midnight opening stores that don't hand out items until 5 there would be no arguing about who was there first or no losing out on an item due to being smaller and it being fought out of your hands.

[PocketTwos]

That's just sad... hopefully walmart finally gets it and starts doing tickets or lines or something... i hope that man's family sues walmart - they are nearly as responsible as the crowd because they have seen these things escalate over the years and still allow the free for all.

There absolutely will be a lawsuit. Either that, or Walmart is already offering a settlement if the family signs a "We won't suit" document.

Legally, Walmart can be found negligent, solely because the incident occurred on their property. Not many people know this, but Bruce Willis had a lawsuit against him years ago because some kid jumped the fence at his home and drowned in his swimming pool. Bruce Willis wasn't even there, but he would have lost the civil case against him if he hadn't settled out of court. Same thing goes for people with trampolines in their backyards. If some kid sneaks onto your property and gets hurt while jumpin on your trampoline, you can be help responsible in civil court.

[Boshingtang]

"Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!" - George Carlin.

[DTphonehome]

Well, the really scary thing is that people do not take responsibility for what happens. Your statement assumes that people feel bad afterwards; from my studies, this doesn't happen. It's the Bystander Effect, which was first studied when a woman in New York City was being raped in an alley. She was screaming for help, and the neighbors living in the apartment building all reported hearing her scream for help, but everyone assumed someone else would help. NO ONE called the police until 15 minutes after the attack was over, when the woman had to go into a store and beg an employee to call.

Kitty Genovese. And it happened in...surprise, surprise, Queens, New York. In Kew Gardens actually, where I grew up. Yay, my town is famous for a horrible event that defined a good portion of modern psychology. Anyway, she was actually knifed to death AND raped. And no one called the cops. Wonderful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

[PocketTwos]

Kitty Genovese. And it happened in...surprise, surprise, Queens, New York. In Kew Gardens actually, where I grew up. Yay, my town is famous for a horrible event that defined a good portion of modern psychology. Anyway, she was actually knifed to death AND raped. And no one called the cops. Wonderful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

AH, ok. I was remembering it incorrectly. Thanks for clearing it up. But yeah, when the police finally were called and took statements from the people living there, many reported hearing her screams but didn't call the police. Diffusion of responsibility. Thanks for posting that link

[freshman77]

The other psychological effect, which I have been explaining to my kids, is that people will do things in a pack that they would never imagine doing alone. If some of these people were strolling on their way to church and this man fell down in front of them, many would stop to render aid. When in a pack, people follow the herd. You do what everyone else is doing.

Recognizing the threat of pack mentality, anyone who was elderly, pregnant or with small children should not have been any where near that place or any other black friday event. The chances of a stampede are enormous at any of these functions. It's just too risky.

[boogahh]

There absolutely will be a lawsuit. Either that, or Walmart is already offering a settlement if the family signs a "We won't suit" document.

Legally, Walmart can be found negligent, solely because the incident occurred on their property. Not many people know this, but Bruce Willis had a lawsuit against him years ago because some kid jumped the fence at his home and drowned in his swimming pool. Bruce Willis wasn't even there, but he would have lost the civil case against him if he hadn't settled out of court. Same thing goes for people with trampolines in their backyards. If some kid sneaks onto your property and gets hurt while jumpin on your trampoline, you can be help responsible in civil court.

Now that's just wrong. If someone really wants to get on your property they will find and way and if they hurt themselves you're liable?

[lilp]

oh yes, if a thief is inside your home and he gets hurt in the process of robbing your home he has the right to sue you

[roykirk1]

The article states

Mr. Charles said he was angry that no one from Wal-Mart had contacted him or had explained how his son had died. Maria Damour, Mr. Damour’s mother, was in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but was on her way back to the United States, Mr. Charles said.

Pretty pathetic on Walmarts part....IMO

To be fair... how do you know Walmart had the guy's parent's info? He was a temp. We have temps at our office, and honestly... we dont even know their last names most of the time. In for 1-2 days to work on a project and then gone, never to be seen again.

[shhaggy]

Kitty Genovese. And it happened in...surprise, surprise, Queens, New York. In Kew Gardens actually, where I grew up. Yay, my town is famous for a horrible event that defined a good portion of modern psychology. Anyway, she was actually knifed to death AND raped. And no one called the cops. Wonderful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

I'm not sure what you mean by surprise surprise, but Kew Gardens is an affluent neighborhood. It was less affluent in the 60s but still not a poor neighborhood. It's close proximity to Green Acres Mall is mere coincidence.

[roykirk1]

I think maybe Walmart brought this upon themselves. In the paper, they had photos of signs that read "Blitz Line starts here" with arrows and stuff. Not sure who put them up. Maybe the managers thought it would be cool to open the doors and people rush into the store as one excited, happy, delirious ... err... team. Instead, they got a mob.

[tubemonkey]

Wal-Mart, in a statement issued at its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., said: “The safety and security of our customers and associates is our top priority.”

That's a lie. If it were, this employee would still be alive.Wal-Mart is ultimately responsible for this man's death. This tragic death was easily preventable.

Personally, I believe that a civil lawsuit against Wal-Mart is in order for wrongful death and the manager of the store should be charged with negligent homicide. It's time these stores owned up to the chaos they create by deliberately offering very low prices for such limited quantities.

[psygn]

Sorry, but to the people saying that they would've done something about the situation...

This was a very large crowd pushing their way in. The chances of you successfully rescuing him would be very slim. It would be the equivalent of throwing yourself into oncoming traffic. You may be able to slip by a few people but you'll eventually lose your balance against the tide, and perhaps fall to the same fate the worker did. Most of us naturally think about the safety of ourselves before attempting something like this. That isn't to say that there are some people out there who would put their life at grave risk just to save a stranger, but it's always easy to say things like "Well I would've done something about it" when outside of the situation, with a cup of hot coffee in your hand, waiting for your BF deals to be delivered that you ordered online in the comfort of your home.

I feel Wal-Mart should do something about this. Anything but the doorbuster, especially in populated/impoverished areas. Keep using that savage method and Wal-Mart will be having itself a nutbuster.

[vodreaux]

What type of compensation will the 34 year old family receive from Walmart?

Will Walmart pay for all expenses relating to the 34 year old man?

Will Walmart be Low Price leader in paying for expenses for the 34 Year Old Man?

Have the funeral inside the backroom of the Walmart? Look for extreme discount Mortuary?

Stock the Wake with Sam's brand food? Stuff all the Funeral guest inside several Walmart Shipping trucks?

How cheap will Walmart be to the poor 34 years family?

[Whatatay]

Just curious of any of you fellow SDers happend to be at that store during the tragic event.

Cell Phone Footage:: WARNING GRAPHIC::: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f55_1227894806



What was graphic about it? 90% of it were people standing in front of the camera and blocking the picture. The other 10% was a persons legs and someone doing CPR on an unseen body.

personally I think its appalling that with 2000+ people not ONE stopped to help the poor guy up. Instead they just ran over him for some stupid deals. Its like a step down for humans.

Have you ever been in a group of even 30 people pushing you from behind? It is impossible to resist such a force.

[lesliepear]

I grew up on Long Island in the 1970's and shopped that mall when stores like Alexanders and Gimbles were there. I do think some of the nearby parts of Queens bring a different class of shoppers to that suburban mall :(
It makes me glad that Staples near me only allowed 16 shoppers in at a time (about 50 were outside). All of us were able to shop in peace and ease and safety (they said someone had gotten hurt last year).

[bigalpoulos]

What was graphic about it? 90% of it were people standing in front of the camera and blocking the picture. The other 10% was a persons legs and someone doing CPR on an unseen body.



Have you ever been in a group of even 30 people pushing you from behind? It is impossible to resist such a force.

the graphic meaning hard to watch.. the guy is dying right there.

[F1Racer]

First Law suit from this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/02/walmart.trampling.suit/index.html

[slick-as-snot]

Don't have time to read each and every post, but I did watch the cell phone video. Not only was this man a victim of a really tragic incident, his CPR efforts and eventual demise are now available for the world to see, thanks to some bystander who happened to have his phone available. It seems he not only got trampled by a bunch of shoppers, but then his dignity was completely stripped from him afterwards. I don't understand why someone felt the need to publicize this on the internet? How do you suppose his loved ones feel about it? I think if it was my dead husband/son/father lying on the floor with the paramedics trying to revive him, I'd be quite angry about this video being released. Very inappropriate, in my opinion.

[broke bastard]

I had a friend on line on black friday, first off, the main person to blame for this tragedy was walmart, NOT the crowd. Before they even opened the doors the employees made many announcements through out the night stating most of the doorbusters were no longer available or were less than the advertised stock, for example only 3 PS3's. A walmart truck even arrived at around 2am and was seen removing doorbuster items from the store. Also the doors were not ripped off, but rather this poor employee was the one told to open the door, about 1 hour after the store was set to open. And yes, not every one was an "animal" and many people tried to help, but were simply pushed inside by the line behind them. My friend's husband was one of the first to finally get to him, and he was pushed down several times, and he's about 6'5" 360, and the only reason he saw him was becuase he tripped on his shoe, if not he may have ran by like most of the crowd, who didn't notice him. Unless you were at the very front of the line, like first 10 people, you likely didn't even know he was there, and if you did see him, good luck holding back 2000 plus people who can't hear you. And to be graffic, yes, people heard him yelling for help, however so was half of the poeple being crushed at the front of the line. If you have ever been on an overcrowded subway train or bus, you have an idea of what it would feel like. In addition there was almost no police presense or organization on walmart's part, and truly feel 99% of the blame rests on their shoulders, and the other 1% with nassau county police. And to all those who posted about who post about the walmart's location, this event could have happened at any walmart, and has before on past black fridays.