Totally new to sound stuff. Decent budget bookshelf speakers?

[kidwithshirt]

My speakers are terrible. I used my laptop speaker (xps m1530) for a while, then I hooked up an old set we got when we purchased a computer 7 years ago, valued at no more than $10 I bet.

I bought a good earplug and I said wow this is great bass, if I can get it in my room.

My room is tiny and I just need something to put on the bookshelf. I did some research and some sets require a receiver? I got no place to that. I mostly hook up my iPod and my laptop. I don't want one of those iPod speaker though since I know they have crappy sound.

I looked at a sony one (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B1000-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair/dp/B000OG88KY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1231902901&sr=1-1) which is around 50. I read some review and people got it for way cheaper, knowing that the price of these actually had gone UP since the last two years.

I looked a the next one which is b3000, goes all the way up to some crazy 6000 and stuff.

Anyway I don't know what I want. Knowing that a name brand in TV or electronics is probably not going to make the best sound equips. Any recommendation around 30-80 dollar would be great.

[radford]

My speakers are terrible. I used my laptop speaker (xps m1530) for a while, then I hooked up an old set we got when we purchased a computer 7 years ago, valued at no more than $10 I bet.

I bought a good earplug and I said wow this is great bass, if I can get it in my room.

My room is tiny and I just need something to put on the bookshelf. I did some research and some sets require a receiver? I got no place to that. I mostly hook up my iPod and my laptop. I don't want one of those iPod speaker though since I know they have crappy sound.

I looked at a sony one (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B1000-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair/dp/B000OG88KY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1231902901&sr=1-1) which is around 50. I read some review and people got it for way cheaper, knowing that the price of these actually had gone UP since the last two years.

I looked a the next one which is b3000, goes all the way up to some crazy 6000 and stuff.

Anyway I don't know what I want. Knowing that a name brand in TV or electronics is probably not going to make the best sound equips. Any recommendation around 30-80 dollar would be great.

Theres actually a lot of small two way speakers that range from sub-100 to $1000+ depending on the hype and quality of the drivers etc. Some of the more expensive euro drivers such as the higher end ScanSpeaks can be several hundred a piece so add in the x-over and other expenses and then add on a profit and a simple 2 way can hit a grand.

If you read sites like Zaphaudio -- he rates fairly reasonable drivers from Seas etc pretty highly which could be in a system for several hundred.

There are also sub 100 units that are very good for the money.

Some brands that have cheaper hend bookshelfs that are considered decent for the money are Polk, Paradigm, etc. There were several Canadian speaker firms that were well respected that were bought by Klipsch a while ago -- Mirage, Energy, PSB. I think they were the ones included. There were a bunch of Canadian speaker companies that popped up that were very good. Paradigm is another one which wasnt part of the group that was bought by Klipsch.

Anyway -- Polk , an American firm has models that are often super low though I have some doubts about the quality on the lowest models since theyve been blown out at super low prices intermittently and there were some posts questioning the sound quality of the super low models. I havent heard them so who knows -- they might be OK.

Some interesting supposedly OK models often sold fairly low are at Audio Advisor. Also Vanns and Crutchfield often have a few models at very low prices. A while ago Vanns and Crutchfield were blowing out the Nanosat Version 1s and the now discontinued Omni 150 bookself Mirages -- as low as $135 pr delivered.

Besides that option --- there are surprisngly cheap near field monitors sold at various music instrument sites , stuff like Behringers and M-audios. Most are bi-amped (includes amps in the speaker). Good Sound gave one PC speaker thats designed more like the nearfields a good review --- small two way thats bi-amped. The review sounds a bit strange though talking about using low fi sources etc.

$200
http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/audioengine_a2.htm

$200
Audio Advisor
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC200

Athena $100 a pr
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS100

Energy $69 a piece
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC50
Energy $150 pr
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC100

You can see the same pr on Amazon via VANNS for $118 pr
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-C-100-Bookshelf-Speakers-Black/dp/B001211HPI
Vanns free shipping
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542789938/energy-c100?s_c=site_search

Some people have commented that they make all these lower speakers in China now, which is probably true. Sure some of them are probably questionable but I havent heard anything bad about the well known brands. I got one of the pr of Mirage 150 Omnis
before they phased them out, and they sound pretty decent and were amazingly low
$125 pr with free shipping ! I wonder about the really low end Polks sold intermittently at
Frys though ---like I said, though you read some postive posts like at SD Ive also read some negative reviews too.

If you look around you can get larger floor standing tower two ways generally with similar drivers --- 1" dome tweeter and 5-6" woofer for dirt cheap too. I assume it gets better bass in a bigger cabinet and they are as low as $150 pr.

This is interesting too Mirage Nanosats $99 a piece.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/544299196/mirage-omnisat-v2-pb

My Omnis are designed the same way but they use a tweeter and woofer made of different material but the configuration is the same except it uses a larger bass reflex(ported) box. These Nanosats are much smaller. The thing is you cant stuff these literally in a bookshelf because they are omnidirectional , not just forward firing drivers. I think they do succesfully give you a slightly bigger, more spacious sound. Some people prefer a more precise stereo image though with some really good conventional boxes. One thing Im annoyed at now are my old Kefs -- small two way mated to subs sounded airy and spacious while I got a pr of well regarded Paradigm Minimonitors and they sound pretty boxy which led me to Magnepan and Mirage. If I had a garage I would build some Linkwitz Plutos.

I was also thinking about building a small two way out of the Neo3PDR planar tweeter and a suitable woofer and Xover. Ive seen a few designs on the net but they tend to be from casual hobbyists. It would be interesting if that Zaphaudio designed one but I think he prefers domes though he gave the Neo3PDR a great review.

[kidwithshirt]

thanks for the comprehensive explanation

So the 50 dollar sony crap isn't good?

I am trying to keep it under 100, 50 seems more realistic

[mtbmtb01]

don't know much about it, but's here's what i ran across when looking for a set of 5.1 speakers
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=527215&t=1128467
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=527215&t=1128995
this may work:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=527215&t=1121543
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=527215&t=1089122
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=527215&t=1107854

[axiom]

Radford's explanation is great though his stuff maybe out of your price range :) The speakers listed there are excellent but require an amp or receiver.

The best deal you'll get for a pair in your budget are studio monitors which can come self-powered. There are quite a few brands of these from M-audio, KRK, Behringer, and quite a bit more.

Something like this isn't a bad deal if you can stretch your budget a bit:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/KRK-Rokit-Powered-6-Generation-2-CB?sku=609801

[radford]

thanks for the comprehensive explanation

So the 50 dollar sony crap isn't good?

I am trying to keep it under 100, 50 seems more realistic

I guess PC speakers are your best bet if you dont want to buy a receiver and you want it under 100 !

I have some M-Audios and they are OK.

The thing is these near fields in the low end have really small woofers so obviously you arent going to get a lot of low bass.

Im surprised they even have monitors below $130-150 which I didnt see a few years ago.

Heres an Alesis for $99 -- the amps are built in. However with shipping and tax it will be over 100. Its got a 3" woofer.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-M1-Active-320USB-Studio-Monitor-Pair?sku=600589

MAudio -- wow 2" woofer ! That seems like it would be too small.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Studiophile-AV20-Monitor-Speaker-Pair?sku=601029

I was thinking more along these lines Maudio 4" woofer , $134 free shipping from Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-AV-Powered-Speakers/dp/B000MUXJCO/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1231984708&sr=8-14


You seem to have really strict requirements though -- under 100 and extremely small.
Ive had to live in some small spaces but Ive never been in a place where you didnt have space for a receiver. It sounds like you are living in a submarine.

Theres a bit of a problem here. The near field monitors are generally bi-amped and dont come with subs so they fit your space requirements. But I dont see any that are below 100with shipping. The Alesis I guess comes the closest to the requirements but Im wondering how decent it is.

Cost-wise the obvious choice would be a PC speaker since there are quite a few under 100. The main problem is many of them probably arent that great sound-wise though some Logitechs etc are probably good enough if you arent that critical. The problem there is they come with subs. Do you have room for a subwoofer?

Theres this Logitech but its NOT eligible for free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Z-2300-THX-Certified-200-Watt-Speaker/dp/B0002SQ2P2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231984796&sr=8-4

There are sub 100 book shelf speakers -- Good Sound actually gave a pr of super cheapo speakers that used to be sold at CC all the time an OK for the money rating. I think they were 40-50 a pr. But you need a amo for them. I dont even know if they are still sold at CC.

Saw this Boston acoustics $32 a pr limited avalability
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Boston-Acoustics-5-25-Bookshelf-Speakers-Black-CR67B/sem/rpsm/oid/159491/catOid/-16882/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Polks a pr $95
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Polk-Monitor-30-Bookshelf-Speakers-Black-MONITOR30/sem/rpsm/oid/93006/catOid/-16882/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

You need amps for these though.

[kidwithshirt]

hey thanks for the input. I think I officially hate shopping for speakers now. I dont know why there are these "audiophiles" out there with their thousand dollar cables.

Space is not too much of a problem unless they get ridiculously huge. I dont mind floorstanding if I have to move things around a bit. But I think that would require receivers right?

[radford]

hey thanks for the input. I think I officially hate shopping for speakers now. I dont know why there are these "audiophiles" out there with their thousand dollar cables.

Space is not too much of a problem unless they get ridiculously huge. I dont mind floorstanding if I have to move things around a bit. But I think that would require receivers right?

Generally speaking --- you dont find too many amped speakers in the consumer audio speaker market. Some articles have said that is a shame because there are audible advantages with electronic xovers and having them bi-amped/tri-amped. So you would think in the audiophile world such speakers would be big but some people speculate that then you take away the whole market in amps.

You dont have plus from a retailing standpoint of marketing a zillion different fancy looking amps --- digital, tube and solid state for big $$$. It also adds to the cost of the speaker so it would make the speakers even more expensive despite the fact you could argue you dont need an amp so you are saving money and getting various benefits by having that configuration.

Basically most of the amped speakers you will find are PC speakers because they plug in directly to your sound card they need an amp built into the speaker unless you want to use a receiver with your PC speakers which most people dont do.

The other are the nearfield monitors though there are some passive monitors too but theres a lot of bi-amped two ways selling at all the music instrument sites.

The main thing is even the cheapest receiver is going to add $100+ to your budget.


Your best bet if you have room is the Logitech Z2300 for 83 bucks plus shipping. Its amped and has a subwoofer. All you need is a PC to hook them up to or a preamp and a source like DVD/CD player.

The second idea is to get a cheap nearfield amped monitor like the Alesis or Maudio but the bass will be very limited.

The 3rd choice is get a bookshelf monitor but youll need an amp/preamp combo or receiver to power them.

The lowest priced ones Ive mentioned --- Boston Acoustics at CC.

Then theres the really small Energy at Audio Advisor for $69
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC50


Athena 5" woofers - pr for $99
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS100


The best bang for your buck in terms of more bass maybe the
Athena LS-300 which is basically a two way 6.5" woofer in a
floor standing tower cabinet for $88 a piece. Of course youll
need an amp and also play shipping too.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS300

They have one with two woofers for $150 each
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATLS500

Theres an Energy tower for around $130 each with one 6.5" woofer
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300

If you buy the small bookshelf speakers you can always add a subwoofer later on.

[axiom]

Hey radford, have you heard those Athena's first hand? They look like a good value. I wonder how'd they would compare to the various Polks on here that show up for about the same price from time to time. Its been awhile since I've gotten to demo entry level floorstanders ever since Circuit City went under.

I'm tempted to pick up a pair of those little Energy's you posted up. They look cute enough to put in a small extra room with a T-amp.

[radford]

Hey radford, have you heard those Athena's first hand? They look like a good value. I wonder how'd they would compare to the various Polks on here that show up for about the same price from time to time. Its been awhile since I've gotten to demo entry level floorstanders ever since Circuit City went under.

I'm tempted to pick up a pair of those little Energy's you posted up. They look cute enough to put in a small extra room with a T-amp.

A neighbor bought some . I only heard them briefly and they were OK. Its hard to say unless you play the music you like and compare them directly against other speakers.

Once again maybe Im delusional or maybe its the small condos here but a lot of two ways sound boxy to me. I have to repeat its been eons since I used to go with friends to all the audiophile places.

For some reason in my memory --- I imagine my old Kefs as airy and smooth , very different from the boxes Im hearing now. You would think with the progression of technology they would be better. On the otherhand , maybe its the small condos here. I really think speakers need some breathing space. To give you an idea how insane I am, I sold my MMGW wall hangers (Magnepans) and bougth some MMG floor standers. I havent used them since initially trying them because I just cant really set them up properly with all the clutter. Magnepans -- even the small ones need lots of space. There been this thing about tranmission lines in some audio circles -- a cultish following like planars/ribbons/electrostatics or tubes. I was even thinking of building one long ago.

Thats one of the reasons why I was thinking of some small two ways with the neo3PDR - small two way with smooth planar sound. People like the guy at Zaphaudio and the AudioCritic reviewer cringe they say when they hear people use terms like "airy" etc --- but thats the best way I can describe it. I guess I want that planar, electrostatic, ribbon type of sound. Of course I dont want a good tweeter with a mediocre woofer though.

Zaphaudio in his tests didnt find the ribbons all the impressive but he did like the Neo3PDR and tests of the BG two way which used the BG neo3 at one of the audioreview sites raved about the tweeter too. The thing is the woofer. Theres a lot of OK inexpensive woofers to mate it with but I would like to see the best, lowest distortion woofer possible at a reasonable price. Ideally Id like to try see the BG10 --- which claims to go down to 150hz used with it at a reasonable cost but its not being sold directly to the public though there were rumors it may be available soon. Its only in their systems.

Parts express sells the Neo 8 but it doesnt go down that low.

The Linkwitz seems totally different but Ive read some claims it sounds like the Quad electrostatic speaker and it crosses over very low so that large tweeter handles a lot of the music and the woofer is in a long tube --- like a transmission line but its sealed off at the end and filled with just the right material to really kill the backwave.