Canon Xs or Nikon D40x Techy needs help!!!

[platinumnikka21]

I am a techy on a tight budget... I have been wanting a DSLR camera for about 2 years now and I think it is about time that I fulfill my needs.

First... I have done extensive research and came down to just a couple "entry level DSLRs." I would really like to have the Canon XSI, but I really can't afford to spend more than $500 tops on it. So, I have narrowed my choices down to these two pretty much.

I have been reading and it seems that the XS and the D40x both have some form of vibration reductions... IS and VR... I was looking and the D40x has only 3 focus points, whereas the XS has 7 and the XSI has 9... Is this going to be a huge deal? I love to shoot a variety of scenes like vacations, family, and animals.

I really don't want to pay more than $400 for the XS with the IS 18-55 lens or more than $350 for the D40x with the plain 18-55 lens. I know that the regular lens for the D40x doesn't have VR, but I didn't think it would matter much with such a low zoom anyways.

Second... I know that I will get a lot of comments about how stupid this is because some love nikon, some love canon. I have always wanted to get a Nikon, but after doing my homework, I have found that the XS cameras are awesome too...

My question is... Should I go with the XS or the D40x? I was leaning toward the XS, but I hate to come off of about $450 (what it will cost me). Anyone know of any GOOD deals on the XS or the XSI, or should I just go with the D40x? Thanks for your time and help!

What I would be happy paying... $350 for the D40x with lens... $400 for the XS with IS lens... $500 for the XSI with IS lens... I really don't mind if they are refurbished or used, as long as they are in good condition.

[wish1510]

Look at Pentax 200, I have 100d super, initially I had a buyers remorse after hearing other people telling me that I won't have great choice in lens, but after using it, I am loving this camera. It's a budget cam but has high end features. Also all Pentax can use any K mount lens and there some excellent old lens for cheap grabs. I myself am looking at this sigma 28-70 f/2.8 for $109.

[canonikon]

just go for the Nikon D40, because you'll never find an XS for $400 or an XSI for $500. Or wait for maybe another 5 years for that price.

[kyzen]

The D40 is an excellent camera, as is the D40x, however their major drawback is the limited lens selection - either one of those cameras can only autofocus with Nikon's "AF-S" lenses (or specific lenses from other brands; I don't know the exact monikers off the top of my head) - these lenses have the autofocus motors built into the lens rather than the body.

With the Rebel XS (or the much better XSi), you'll be able to use any of Canon's "EF" or "EF-S" lens mounts; giving you a much wider (and potentially cheaper) range of lenses to choose from as you get started.

Genzcop is right about the difficulty in finding an XSi for $500ish; the best I've seen lately is $577 via a coupon from Dell. However I think it's a very real possibility that you could score an XS for $400, or at least very close - the same Dell coupon for the XSi would've brought their XS down to ~$430. And just a month and a half ago you could've scored an XS and a 75-300mm lens (not the best lens; but not horrible) for a bit over $400. So if you're willing to wait and see, you can probably get a decent deal on an XS.

One other fun factoid: A lot of people believe that Canon is going to announce a new Rebel model at PMA in 2 weeks; either the XRi or TSi, depending on who you ask (same model; different names). It's rumored/expected/hoped to have a 15.1MP sensor, DIGIC IV, and a video mode. It could be worth waiting to see if a new Rebel is announced; and what happens to existing prices if that happens. It's unlikely Canon will want to dillute their Rebel line with 3 active models, so you can expect them to phase out either the XS or XSi (likely the XSi).

Whatever you decide on though, you'll enjoy it - they're all excellent cameras.

[wish1510]

just go for the Nikon D40, because you'll never find an XS for $400 or an XSI for $500. Or wait for maybe another 5 years for that price.

Op already said he ruled out XSI as his budget is less than 500.

[JustAnEngineer]

To quote Killer Beaz... "Save up!"

The Rebel XSi kit is a nice starting point if you can fit it into your budget. Note that you'll need to buy a memory card, too. Both Nikon and Canon offer excellent lenses and cameras. I believe that Canon offers more at the entry level than Nikon does, but Nikon's mid-range and professional cameras are excellent.

One of the things that you should do is try these cameras in person. Ergonomics can be important, so you should choose the one that works best for you. The Rebel XS is a very small DSLR. Some folks like that and some do not.

[platinumnikka21]

To quote Killer Beaz... "Save up!"

The Rebel XSi kit is a nice starting point if you can fit it into your budget. Note that you'll need to buy a memory card, too. Both Nikon and Canon offer excellent lenses and cameras. I believe that Canon offers more at the entry level than Nikon does, but Nikon's mid-range and professional cameras are excellent.

One of the things that you should do is try these cameras in person. Ergonomics can be important, so you should choose the one that works best for you. The Rebel XS is a very small DSLR. Some folks like that and some do not.

Thx. I went to look at both of the cameras today at Sears and I must say that the D40x feels way better in my hands. I think I am leaning more towards nikon, as I can't afford the higher priced XSI right now. I am pretty much in between two cameras now... The D40x and the D60.

I am looking at a refurb D40x with a 18-55 VR lens and 55-200 VR lens for around $530... I also found a refurb D60 with 18-55 VR lens and 55-200 VR lens, 8 GB Transend SDHC Class 6 card, spare battery, and microfiber cloth for around $590... My question is first, is this a good deal? Second, is the D60 really worth the extra $60? Or should I just get the D40x and get a case and battery or memory card with the money I have left over?

I have been looking for a good deal and it's killing me. I just don't want to make the wrong decision. Thank you!

[Symber]

Posted this in a couple threads now... but... my friend just picked up an XS with lens for $420 from Circuit City. She said that the XSi was about $100 more, so I imagine somewhere around $500-550. I'm sure stock and exact prices vary since they're closing, but you may want to look into it. Personally, I have a Nikon D60 and absolutely love it, so feel free to stick with that Nikon idea! ;) I'm not sure if CC carries those as well, but that might be a plesant surprise.

[johnts97]

I don't know how anyone didn't point this out yet. The nikon d40x is the EXACT same camera as the d60. Nikon rebranded the d40x to the d60 6 months ago or so. The reason for this is to show people that it really was a lot better camera than the d40, since it had a bigger number. (in reality its not a better camera)

In reality the d60 is the same camera as the d40 except it is capable of taking 10mega pixel pictures as opposed to 6. This may sound great, but its not, for 2 reasons.

1) you dont need 10 mega pixels. pixels have nothing to do with image quality, it only relates to file size. You don't need 10 megapixels unless you want to print bigger than 20X30 inches. (and the rebutal of post picture production cropping is petty)

2) since its the same camera with the same image processor. This slows down the processor makes the camera slower.

As far as your VR research. VR/IS whichever company you chose. It is not at all needed at 18-55. Thats just silly for companies to force it upon you. If you are creating blurry pictures with your 18-55 lense, you need to have your doctor check you for MS.

Save your money, buy a D40 for about $375 and be happy with it. Save up for lenses, thats what creates better pictures than the actual camera.

[kyzen]

Not entirely right Johnts97 - the D60 has a different metering system than the D40x, actually shoots faster than the D40, has a slower flash sync speed than both the D40 and D40x, actually does have a different image processor (EXPEED), and the D60 has a built in sensor cleaning system, plus a whole pile of other minor features.

So while the D60 is a refresh of the D40x, it's not just an identical rebranding of one :)

Also, in my totally non-professional opinion, VR helps at any focal length, even 18mm, especially when you're taking long exposures, as no human I know of can hold a camera perfectly steady for > 3 seconds.

[platinumnikka21]

I don't know how anyone didn't point this out yet. The nikon d40x is the EXACT same camera as the d60. Nikon rebranded the d40x to the d60 6 months ago or so. The reason for this is to show people that it really was a lot better camera than the d40, since it had a bigger number. (in reality its not a better camera)

In reality the d60 is the same camera as the d40 except it is capable of taking 10mega pixel pictures as opposed to 6. This may sound great, but its not, for 2 reasons.

1) you dont need 10 mega pixels. pixels have nothing to do with image quality, it only relates to file size. You don't need 10 megapixels unless you want to print bigger than 20X30 inches. (and the rebutal of post picture production cropping is petty)

2) since its the same camera with the same image processor. This slows down the processor makes the camera slower.

As far as your VR research. VR/IS whichever company you chose. It is not at all needed at 18-55. Thats just silly for companies to force it upon you. If you are creating blurry pictures with your 18-55 lense, you need to have your doctor check you for MS.

Save your money, buy a D40 for about $375 and be happy with it. Save up for lenses, thats what creates better pictures than the actual camera.

Thank you. I totally respect where your coming from. One reason I like 60 over the D40x is that it has the dust reduction system or whatever it is. I don't know how important a feature like that is (as I am new to digital cameras), but I thought it sounded nice haha.

I think though, that you'll be glad to know that I am going to purchase a Canon XSI... I have read and read... I really haven't found anything bad about the XSI... It is about $200 more than I am wanting to spend, but as my post says... I am a techy... I know that I will only be satisfied with mediocrity for about 6 months then I will be wanting to upgrade anyways...

Does anyone have anything against the XSI that I should know about before I purchase? I am currently just waiting for the right deal to pull the trigger. Thanks for your help guys!

[kyzen]

Thank you. I totally respect where your coming from. One reason I like 60 over the D40x is that it has the dust reduction system or whatever it is. I don't know how important a feature like that is (as I am new to digital cameras), but I thought it sounded nice haha.

I think though, that you'll be glad to know that I am going to purchase a Canon XSI... I have read and read... I really haven't found anything bad about the XSI... It is about $200 more than I am wanting to spend, but as my post says... I am a techy... I know that I will only be satisfied with mediocrity for about 6 months then I will be wanting to upgrade anyways...

Does anyone have anything against the XSI that I should know about before I purchase? I am currently just waiting for the right deal to pull the trigger. Thanks for your help guys!


I have my XSi and love it.. aside from the fact that I had to send it in this week for repairs, as the sensor was developing some large hot spots (brightly color dots that appear on long exposures as the sensor heats up). I've had this happen with a Nikon D60 that I returned a week after purchasing though, so it's not uncommon; just annoying (hell, if I didn't look at my images in full resolution, and didn't do a lot of astrophotography I probably wouldn't have noticed on either camera).

One other thing to consider is waiting - PMA is in less than two weeks, and Canon is rumored to be announcing an XSi successor - if it's just a megapixel upgrade and addition of a video mode, it probably won't be worth your consideration; but if they upgrade the AF package, or add any other incredibly awesome features, you might consider it - or just wait for the inevitable XSi discounts :)

[platinumnikka21]

I have my XSi and love it.. aside from the fact that I had to send it in this week for repairs, as the sensor was developing some large hot spots (brightly color dots that appear on long exposures as the sensor heats up). I've had this happen with a Nikon D60 that I returned a week after purchasing though, so it's not uncommon; just annoying (hell, if I didn't look at my images in full resolution, and didn't do a lot of astrophotography I probably wouldn't have noticed on either camera).

One other thing to consider is waiting - PMA is in less than two weeks, and Canon is rumored to be announcing an XSi successor - if it's just a megapixel upgrade and addition of a video mode, it probably won't be worth your consideration; but if they upgrade the AF package, or add any other incredibly awesome features, you might consider it - or just wait for the inevitable XSi discounts :)

haha that sounds good.. I just hope I can wait that long. I have been wanting a DSLR for about a year now, and finally decided to bite... Now I am going CRAZY having to wait on this and that... But thanks for your advice!

[kyzen]

I know the feeling; I finally decided to take the plunge on a DSLR last July to replace my overpriced point and shoots; picked up the D60 at first, had half a dozen bright blue spots on any exposure over 1 second, and dozens on exposures over 20 seconds, so I returned it a week later... then waited 3 months before finding a suitable deal on the XSi... I went nuts in the interim; it was especially crappy because I had bought a backpack and tripod for the D60 that just collected dust :(

[platinumnikka21]

I know the feeling; I finally decided to take the plunge on a DSLR last July to replace my overpriced point and shoots; picked up the D60 at first, had half a dozen bright blue spots on any exposure over 1 second, and dozens on exposures over 20 seconds, so I returned it a week later... then waited 3 months before finding a suitable deal on the XSi... I went nuts in the interim; it was especially crappy because I had bought a backpack and tripod for the D60 that just collected dust :(

haha thats no good... Well I guess if you could wait 3 months, I can wait a couple more weeks, or until I find an offer I can't refuse on one. Thanks for your help!

[johnts97]

Not entirely right Johnts97 - the D60 has a different metering system than the D40x, actually shoots faster than the D40, has a slower flash sync speed than both the D40 and D40x, actually does have a different image processor (EXPEED), and the D60 has a built in sensor cleaning system, plus a whole pile of other minor features.

So while the D60 is a refresh of the D40x, it's not just an identical rebranding of one :)

Also, in my totally non-professional opinion, VR helps at any focal length, even 18mm, especially when you're taking long exposures, as no human I know of can hold a camera perfectly steady for > 3 seconds.
i misspoke, its the same image sensor. not processor. This causes it to be slower. The shutter can physically move faster, but the d60 is less sensitive to light so it requires a slower shutter anyways.

as far as the other features, they aren't really necessary. I know my opinion is biased, as i am a d40 owner. But speaking from personal experience, i don't see how those features are necessary.

If you want to take a 3 second exposure picture, i am not sure if VR would even help out.
Here is a picture I took with my d40 18-55 at 11pm with just ambient lighting. Exposure time of 5 seconds.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2826974598_1a26afd0c5.jpg
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2826974598_1a26afd0c5.jpg)
No tripod, i just found a way to prop my camera up.

Dust cleaning system. I've taken thousand and thousand of pictures with my d40 adn changed my lenses pretty regularly and never noticed.

I don't know much about the canons, sorry.

[kyzen]

I'm not saying the D60 is a better camera; to be honest, of the Nikon consumer lineup I'd choose a D40 over a D40x or D60 (but I'd take a D90 over all of them, /drool). And, again, the image processor is different; the D60 uses the EXPEED processor that's also used in the D300 and D3, which allows the D60 to get its slightly higher fps rating (I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, sorry :()

[johnts97]

I'm not saying the D60 is a better camera; to be honest, of the Nikon consumer lineup I'd choose a D40 over a D40x or D60 (but I'd take a D90 over all of them, /drool). And, again, the image processor is different; the D60 uses the EXPEED processor that's also used in the D300 and D3, which allows the D60 to get its slightly higher fps rating (I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, sorry :()


You are correct, its a different image processor, but its the same image sensor. The physical movement of the shutter IS faster, BUT it needs to be slowed down because the d60 is less sensitive to light.

[wish1510]

Get a Canon Sx1 and call it a day. Its an almost dslr with hd 1080p video.

[kyzen]

Its an almost dslr with hd 1080p video.

No. A long zoom does not make a camera DSLR-like. You're stuck with the one mediocre lens, a max wide angle of 28mm, an itty bitty sensor (meaning more noise), a small aperture range of f/2.8 - f/5.7, and a shutter speed range of 15s-1/3200th (which is great as far as point and shoots go, but DSLRs can extend further in either direction; particularly longer).

Is an SX10 a more manual-control capable camera than your average point and shoot? Yes. Is it even half as good as the weakest DSLR on the market? Nope.

[wish1510]

I wasn't talking about Sx10 I was talking about the new Sx1 it has a cmos sensor. Supposedly a very good camra.

And, I am not entirely disagreeing with you about dslr's being better than this one but based on the op's budget, this camera's features and the fact that this might be better than an XS with kit lens. I suggested this Canon Sx1.

[poolsmaster]

If you want an XSI, Amazon yesterday night dropped the price to $629.00 which was an all-time low for Amazon. Unfortunately I woke up this morning to discover the price had gone back up to $679. As others have suggested, wait for PMA to pass and see if anything new is announced which might cause the price to fall.

[sprials]

You are correct, its a different image processor, but its the same image sensor. The physical movement of the shutter IS faster, BUT it needs to be slowed down because the d60 is less sensitive to light.
This is silly. The default iso on D60 is 100, while on the D40 the lowest is 200. But you can always change the D60 to iso 200/400/800/1600, since digital allows you to change iso.