I LOVE the Chris Johnson holdout. This is why.

[blacksoxing]

For those who do not know (or care), he is a running back for the Tennessee Titans. I love the Titans from day one, so I've been following this saga for a while.

The main story here: He has been in the NFL for 3 years, has 2 years left on his contract, and has clearly outperformed it. He was told last year that it's too early to talk about it and to not hold out and wait until this year. Next year is the last year.

This year has came, and he wants to be paid handsomely. The Titans are willing to make him the highest paid RB, but, that is chump change compared to other skill players. He's scheduled to make a million dollars this year, which is laughable compared to his co-workers (there's backups making 2 million)


Why do I love this? It shows 3 things:

1) The players really didn't WIN anything with this lockout. Contracts are still written on toilet paper basically. If the Titans hated him, they could release him with minimum impact on their bottom line....

2) That fans love a player until they want more money. Fans don't PAY athletes. They PAY the owners. The owners pay the athletes. That is typically forgotten. If an owner really wanted to, they could bankroll a team 100% by themselves. It would be idiotic and counter-productive to owning a team, but it could happen. Fans just show up to cheer and line the owners' pockets...who may or may not sprinkle some cash on the athletes. So it's silly that the fans are outraged that Chris Johnson wants at least top 5 Wide Receiver money!

3) The most important part....the "contract" itself. This is where the public to me is 100% wrong. In this situation, many fans say "he should honor the contract because he signed it"

There has been two players in NFL history who basically refused to sign their first contract. John Elway and Eli Manning. Both cried and moaned until they were traded from the team that drafted them (Eli had his daddy do it for him!)

CHRIS JOHNSON DID NOT CHOOSE THE TITANS! When I graduated from college, I had the option to interview wherever I pleased. When I was hired, I was told my salary and asked if I could work with it. I've outperformed it, so I'm looking for a new job. I can find one, quit my job, and have more $$$ in my bank account.

Chris Johnson was DRAFTED to the Titans. He had no choice in this. The market always dictates how much a certain draft pick receives. He would have been ridiculed if he chose not to sign his first contract. In fact, his only option would have been to re-enter the NFL draft the next year, which would have severely hampered his chances of making money and shortened his NFL career at least by a year.


Why am I typing this? I'm typing this because it's annoying when fans stick their noses in contract negotiations. Especially when it's a non-QB. The most infamous negotiation gone wrong in my memory is when Javon Walker - a receiver for the Packers - wanted a new contract. The fans of course were outraged that someone who had a few great seasons wanted a few more dollars, and that he might not play the first week of the regular season. The "great" Brett Favre decided to publicly shun Walker for doing this, and eventually he caved in.

Guess what happened. Injury! All his leverage went down the drain. Of course the team didn't need to pay him additional money!

After that occurred, I realized that it's not my place to root against a man who wants more money. The NFL is a dangerous non-guaranteed sport. Get every dollar you can. As shown time and time again, those same fans who jeer you will cheer you when you help them win their fantasy football matchup or "bring them" a super bowl win...

[play2winit]

Fans are the worst when it comes to athletes and contracts. Especially NFL when there is career/season ending injurys daily even when they are not even playing. That's why you never hear about a player trying to 'retire in their city', in the NFL if the money is right you shouldn't play just like you said, too dangerous of a sport. I give it up to CJ hes a 99 in Madden pay him his money!!

[Danman114]

I too am closely monitoring this, but that's just because I have him on both of my fantasy teams (5th pick, and $42)

2) That fans love a player until they want more money. Fans don't PAY athletes. They PAY the owners. The owners pay the athletes. That is typically forgotten. If an owner really wanted to, they could bankroll a team 100% by themselves. It would be idiotic and counter-productive to owning a team, but it could happen. Fans just show up to cheer and line the owners' pockets...who may or may not sprinkle some cash on the athletes. So it's silly that the fans are outraged that Chris Johnson wants at least top 5 Wide Receiver money!
I don't think that most NFL owners could afford this. NFL isn't like MLB, where you have 162 + revenue generating events. 16 + 4 (and fans HATE these pre season games) and hope to make the playoffs... It's not like every owner is a billionaire Mark Cuban, some of these are businesses.

3) The most important part....the "contract" itself. This is where the public to me is 100% wrong. In this situation, many fans say "he should honor the contract because he signed it"

CHRIS JOHNSON DID NOT CHOOSE THE TITANS! When I graduated from college, I had the option to interview wherever I pleased. When I was hired, I was told my salary and asked if I could work with it. I've outperformed it, so I'm looking for a new job. I can find one, quit my job, and have more $$$ in my bank account.

Chris Johnson was DRAFTED to the Titans. He had no choice in this. The market always dictates how much a certain draft pick receives. He would have been ridiculed if he chose not to sign his first contract. In fact, his only option would have been to re-enter the NFL draft the next year, which would have severely hampered his chances of making money and shortened his NFL career at least by a year.
He does have the option of quitting football and becoming a teacher though...

I would never say CJ2K has to honor a contract like he has now, but the idea that the Titans HAVE to give him a new one is equally ridiculous. As much as I want CJ2K signed and practicing, I think it's ridiculous to have him earning money he'd get as if he were a FA. Titans have him for two more years...

And as far as the draft goes, I think it's vital to the sport. MLB is going to hell (and this is from a Red Sox fan) because of the lack of salary cap and the draft system (no trading of picks prevents teams like the Pirates from trading away the 3 over all pick for more, cheaper picks).

After that occurred, I realized that it's not my place to root against a man who wants more money. The NFL is a dangerous non-guaranteed sport. Get every dollar you can. As shown time and time again, those same fans who jeer you will cheer you when you help them win their fantasy football matchup or "bring them" a super bowl win...
As much as I think CJ2K should be paid, I think he needs to temper his expectations. top tier free agent money when you have two years to be a free agent is a stretch

*edit* I also think going on Twitter and telling your 'fake Titan fans' that your not like them, you don't have a regular job, and to "STFU" is an AWFUL way to generate the support he should want.

[loop610bob]

As much as I think CJ2K should be paid, I think he needs to temper his expectations. top tier free agent money when you have two years to be a free agent is a stretch
I would agree with this in every sport but football. The risk of being hurt on the job and having that injury virtually annihilate any potential future earnings is so high that I think a player like Johnson *HAS* to go for it when he gets the chance.

I can't even imagine the risk premium on non-guaranteed money. I'd be sick to my stomach carrying a liability like that.
*edit* I also think going on Twitter and telling your 'fake Titan fans' that your not like them, you don't have a regular job, and to "STFU" is an AWFUL way to generate the support he should want.
They sure don't pay him for his PR skills, that's for sure.

[Danman114]

I would agree with this in every sport but football. The risk of being hurt on the job and having that injury virtually annihilate any potential future earnings is so high that I think a player like Johnson *HAS* to go for it when he gets the chance.

I can't even imagine the risk premium on non-guaranteed money. I'd be sick to my stomach carrying a liability like that.

I agree he should be holding out. I'd do the same thing if I were him. My only point is I think he needs to adjust is expectations.

He can say, "I want top 'play-maker' money", but he'd only get that if he were a free agent. He won't be a FA for two more years. If I'm the Titans, I'd offer him a 4 year deal (FA when he's 28), giving him $7 - 9 million the first two years, and $12-$15 million the second two, with less money guaranteed those years.

Titans hold a lot of the cards in this situation, though not as many as they would if they were a better team.

[IPT]

I agree he should be holding out. I'd do the same thing if I were him. My only point is I think he needs to adjust is expectations.

He can say, "I want top 'play-maker' money", but he'd only get that if he were a free agent. He won't be a FA for two more years. If I'm the Titans, I'd offer him a 4 year deal (FA when he's 28), giving him $7 - 9 million the first two years, and $12-$15 million the second two, with less money guaranteed those years.

Titans hold a lot of the cards in this situation, though not as many as they would if they were a better team.
he can demand as much as he wants
remember, the prime of a star RB on AVG is only 5-6 years.

i'd hold out for as much as i can get as well.

[blacksoxing]

Him going on Twitter and calling out those who care about him for fantasy purposes is what I think a large majority of us would do.....but it was also idiotic.

It's like when you work retail, and you have those customers who want discounted items, or want you do do out of the ordinary things for them, or treat you like a dog...and you want to just call them out on it and say "DAMMIT, JUST BECAUSE I WORK AT ____ DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN TREAT ME HOWEVER YOU WANT TO!!!"

...But you're smart enough to know that will only cause more problems because then the customers will feel like YOU offended THEM and want you reprimanded/fired.

You can tell CJ probably never worked a retail/service/fast food job before. I think everyone should. Gives you natural practice on how to hold your tongue and focus on your end-goal - a better job with a bigger payday.



I'm sure his agent wanted to put him in a choke hold after reading that twitter. Athletes need to step away from it!!!

[Xygonn]

I would put his performance in 2010 as solid and respectable. In 2009 he had a great year. If you don't want to be stuck in a contract don't sign a 5 year contract. Derp.

[Homefrrie]

He signed..

[Tony_Danza]

...and he gets 30 million guaranteed. Just 5 million more than Vince Young did :P

[IPT]

...and he gets 30 million guaranteed. Just 5 million more than Vince Young did :P
and fantasy NFL owners everywhere breath a sign of relief
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.
.
.
.
.
till he pulls his hammy like Revis did last year and is out 4 games.

[Homefrrie]

and fantasy NFL owners everywhere breath a sign of relief
.
.
.
.
.
.
till he pulls his hammy like Revis did last year and is out 4 games.

:lol: :iagree:


I picked LeSean w/ the 4th pick last night and left him on the board cause of just that... injury

And it wasn't because I'm biased toward the birds :whistlin:

[loop610bob]

I would put his performance in 2010 as solid and respectable. In 2009 he had a great year. If you don't want to be stuck in a contract don't sign a 5 year contract. Derp.
The miracle of monopolies means contracts don't have the same binds as market based contracts. I'm very VERY sure the players would love an open market for services.
:lol: :iagree:


I picked LeSean w/ the 4th pick last night and left him on the board cause of just that... injury

And it wasn't because I'm biased toward the birds :whistlin:
You picked Lesean ahead of Ray Rice? Whoa. Gotta disagree with you on that one.

[play2winit]

Just in time for drafting tomorrow

[IPT]

The miracle of monopolies means contracts don't have the same binds as market based contracts. I'm very VERY sure the players would love an open market for services.

You picked Lesean ahead of Ray Rice? Whoa. Gotta disagree with you on that one.
in our SD Lounge Fantasy league, aaron rodgers went 2nd after I picked Foster with #1.
C.Johnson went 9th, but that was cause the dude was auto drafting lol
our 1st round went Foster, Rodgers, AP, Ray Rice, Charles, Philip Rivers (WTF?!), Mendenhall, Johnson (Autopick), Vick, Turner, Roddy White.

WEIRD ASS 1ST ROUND THERE

[play2winit]

in our SD Lounge Fantasy league, aaron rodgers went 2nd after I picked Foster with #1.
C.Johnson went 9th, but that was cause the dude was auto drafting lol
our 1st round went Foster, Rodgers, AP, Ray Rice, Charles, Philip Rivers (WTF?!), Mendenhall, Johnson (Autopick), Vick, Turner, Roddy White.

WEIRD ASS 1ST ROUND THERE

Rivers puts up numbers Chargers had #1 offense last season, but Mendenhall and Turner is a :shake: No one even picked up Brady...

[loop610bob]

Rivers puts up numbers Chargers had #1 offense last season, but Mendenhall and Turner is a :shake: No one even picked up Brady...
Yea but you look at the top 6 or 7 QBs and each one of them could truly end up #1. The same isn't true for RBs. There's always the one that comes outta nowhere, but that just means you need top flight RBs all the more when any of 7 can get it done at QB. Romo is 7th in ADP right now I think and he could easily go north of 30 TDs.

Heck, Ryan Fitzpatrick might end up a top 10 (check his average fantasy points per game played last year before you laugh) and he's a what, 11th rounder at best (10 team 1 QB starting)?

Oh right. The Podium. Obama sucks. :lol:

[Homefrrie]

You picked Lesean ahead of Ray Rice? Whoa. Gotta disagree with you on that one.


Naw I'm not in the SD league, I was talking about the league I've been in w/ my high school friends for 10+ years now.. Ray Rice went #2, I took McCoy at #5

Even so, I'd rank them pretty evenly. LeSean had a fantastic year last year and will only improve IMHO.

[IPT]

Rivers puts up numbers Chargers had #1 offense last season, but Mendenhall and Turner is a :shake: No one even picked up Brady...
if we use that logic, then Vick should be #1

[loop610bob]

Naw I'm not in the SD league, I was talking about the league I've been in w/ my high school friends for 10+ years now.. Ray Rice went #2, I took McCoy at #5
I read that and thought you drafted Colt McCoy. For about 20 seconds, I was debating trying to find a mental health institution for you.
Even so, I'd rank them pretty evenly. LeSean had a fantastic year last year and will only improve IMHO.
I'd give a slight edge to Rice since Philly has so many weapons. There just won't be enough snaps for everyone. I bet LeSean's yards per carry goes through the roof though. The guy is gonna feast on nickel packages all year.

I'm in 2 leagues and have Rice in one and McCoy in the other. I'm rooting for both.

[Homefrrie]

I read that and thought you drafted Colt McCoy. For about 20 seconds, I was debating trying to find a mental health institution for you.

I'd give a slight edge to Rice since Philly has so many weapons. There just won't be enough snaps for everyone. I bet LeSean's yards per carry goes through the roof though.

If I took McCoy w/ my first pick, I would have expected a flood of fantasy invites to him my PM box :D


Yea it'll be close. I had Ray Rice last year and was obviously disappointed especially w/ the start he had, but I fully expect a bounce back year from him. He's too good a back & receiver to have a down year like that again.

:secret: I took DeSean Jackson too but missed out on Vick :lol:

[LivninSC]

I don't know how anyone can actually love what was done, that is apart from Johnson.

Let me know when you've got a house for sale and I'll come and buy it and at closing tell you that I don't feel like paying the full price anymore and will pay less and either stick it to you or just walk away and you're left with a house you no longer want. Seems fair right? I mean, if contracts don't amount to shit anymore you'd totally be cool with me not honoring any contract anybody ever enters in to you with right! :thumbsup:

Contracts are contracts. They may not be fair but the don't sign them in the first place! For all the Titans knew he was going to suck and they'd be overpaying for a running back that doesn't produce.

It's not like these guys are getting in to anything on their own either. They have experienced agents who basically hand hold them through the entire process.

I'm sorry but Johnson, Revis, Jackson, all those guys are what's wrong with professional sports. It's all about the "me" and not the team. Are they worth more than they're making? Sure, hell ya, but at the same time it's not like the teams get to renegotiate and lower the contracts for the under performing players. How many first round pics have been paid handsomely yet never ever produced? A LOT! I'd personally LOVE for them to try that and say well "we had to pay Johnson more $$ so we need to get the $$ from somewhere else on the roster and you're sucking big time". I wonder how quickly it would take for the owners to be labeled as greedy money hungry WASPS if that was ever done.

I atleast respected San Diego for what they did to Jackson and not pay him and not release him. Make his bitch ass suffer. Sure the team suffered as a result but allowing this is allowing a cancer to grow and spread throughout your locker room. Shame on NY and TN for allowing this cancer to spread.

No, today is a say day in professional sports where in the long run only more and more people will hold out because they think they're underpaid for getting to play a game for millions of dollars. F'ing cry me a river...

[highfloydelity]

nvm..

[IPT]

I don't know how anyone can actually love what was done, that is apart from Johnson.

Let me know when you've got a house for sale and I'll come and buy it and at closing tell you that I don't feel like paying the full price anymore and will pay less and either stick it to you or just walk away and you're left with a house you no longer want. Seems fair right? I mean, if contracts don't amount to shit anymore you'd totally be cool with me not honoring any contract anybody ever enters in to you with right! :thumbsup:

Contracts are contracts. They may not be fair but the don't sign them in the first place! For all the Titans knew he was going to suck and they'd be overpaying for a running back that doesn't produce.

It's not like these guys are getting in to anything on their own either. They have experienced agents who basically hand hold them through the entire process.

I'm sorry but Johnson, Revis, Jackson, all those guys are what's wrong with professional sports. It's all about the "me" and not the team. Are they worth more than they're making? Sure, hell ya, but at the same time it's not like the teams get to renegotiate and lower the contracts for the under performing players. How many first round pics have been paid handsomely yet never ever produced? A LOT! I'd personally LOVE for them to try that and say well "we had to pay Johnson more $$ so we need to get the $$ from somewhere else on the roster and you're sucking big time". I wonder how quickly it would take for the owners to be labeled as greedy money hungry WASPS if that was ever done.

I atleast respected San Diego for what they did to Jackson and not pay him and not release him. Make his bitch ass suffer. Sure the team suffered as a result but allowing this is allowing a cancer to grow and spread throughout your locker room. Shame on NY and TN for allowing this cancer to spread.

No, today is a say day in professional sports where in the long run only more and more people will hold out because they think they're underpaid for getting to play a game for millions of dollars. F'ing cry me a river...
difference is for the NFL, if the player isn't performing up to the contract, the team can cut them and the remaining contract is voided.
NFL contracts are structured so that they are given flexibility to maneuver around the cap.

They do this btw, cut someone who they deem isn't performing to what his contract states he should be making (i.e. Cowboys cutting 5 time pro bowler Andre Gurode after they couldn't restructure his deal and save 5.5 mil this year)

The Jets did this by having LT (cut 1.3 mil), Calvin Pace, and Bart Scott (each 1 mil cut) this year and told them they were gonna go after Asomugha and other free agents.

What you're saying i'd agree with in every other professional league, but not the NFL.

Chris Johnson wasn't guaranteed to make that 1 mil for this year. If the Titans decided "we don't want you on the team anymore", they cut him and he's got no $$ coming in on this contract (obviously he'd be picked up by someone else so he'll make the $$ back)

[Xygonn]

The miracle of monopolies means contracts don't have the same binds as market based contracts. I'm very VERY sure the players would love an open market for services.

He didn't have to sign a 5 year contract, he could have negotiated for a shorter contract, say two or three years, but he didn't. Maybe he did it because he wanted security in case he fizzled in the NFL. Well, he didn't, and now he is paying for that security.

[IPT]

He didn't have to sign a 5 year contract, he could have negotiated for a shorter contract, say two or three years, but he didn't. Maybe he did it because he wanted security in case he fizzled in the NFL. Well, he didn't, and now he is paying for that security.
the 5 year contract is pretty standard for NFL 1st Round draft pics.
Remember, CJ was still on his rookie contract.
This isn't Osi we're talking about.

Anyway, its a moot point as he signed a 4 year extension for 53.5 mil with 30 mil guaranteed

[Xygonn]

the 5 year contract is pretty standard for NFL 1st Round draft pics.
Remember, CJ was still on his rookie contract.
This isn't Osi we're talking about.

Anyway, its a moot point as he signed a 4 year extension for 53.5 mil with 30 mil guaranteed

While it might be "standard", no one made him agree to it. If they didn't sign such long contracts, they wouldn't have to hold out.

I just saw this, so yeah, he just got a >1000% raise. Pretty good by any standard.

I would kill for that... Maybe I should hold out at my year end review :P

[IPT]

While it might be "standard", no one made him agree to it. If they didn't sign such long contracts, they wouldn't have to hold out.

I just saw this, so yeah, he just got a >1000% raise. Pretty good by any standard.

I would kill for that... Maybe I should hold out at my year end review :P
your contracts guaranteed?
are you working as a consultant?
if your employer decided to terminate your contract for no good reason, you have no severance package?

Besides, this is how the "game" is played with NFL contracts, hardly anyone ever expects their contracts to be fulfilled completely.

[Xygonn]

your contracts guaranteed?
are you working as a consultant?
if your employer decided to terminate your contract for no good reason, you have no severance package?

Besides, this is how the "game" is played with NFL contracts, hardly anyone ever expects their contracts to be fulfilled completely.

I'm pretty sure my contract says I can be released at any time, and can quit at any time. I did not sign a non-compete agreement. If I were terminated I would receive no severance pay.

EDIT:Grabbed the important quote from my files.

Employment with the Company is at will, and either you or the Company may terminate employment at any time, with or without cause.

[IPT]

I'm pretty sure my contract says I can be released at any time, and can quit at any time. I did not sign a non-compete agreement. If I were terminated I would receive no severance pay.

EDIT:Grabbed the important quote from my files.
and are you paid on salary? Or are you paid by day/hour worked?
cause NFL players are TECHNICALLY paid by day worked.
If he doesn't show up to play a game/practice one day, he doesn't get paid

[Xygonn]

and are you paid on salary? Or are you paid by day/hour worked?
cause NFL players are TECHNICALLY paid by day worked.
If he doesn't show up to play a game/practice one day, he doesn't get paid

Salary, but if I miss a whole day of work and am out of vacation time, and sick leave, I would have pay deducted from my salary if I didn't get fired. NFL players get paid on injured reserve.

[IPT]

Salary, but if I miss a whole day of work and am out of vacation time, and sick leave, I would have pay deducted from my salary if I didn't get fired. NFL players get paid on injured reserve.
injuried on the job = IR
you can't be terminated if you got injured on the job

And if a player was injured b4 the start of the season/training camp/etc, the teams would just cut him, so he wouldn't be paid.

[Xygonn]

injuried on the job = IR
you can't be terminated if you got injured on the job

And if a player was injured b4 the start of the season/training camp/etc, the teams would just cut him, so he wouldn't be paid.

So just to be sure, you seem to think that working as a player in the NFL is worse than holding a regular job. Am I getting your thrust, or am I confused?

[Danman114]

He didn't have to sign a 5 year contract, he could have negotiated for a shorter contract, say two or three years, but he didn't. Maybe he did it because he wanted security in case he fizzled in the NFL. Well, he didn't, and now he is paying for that security.
Is there any recent history of players signing only 3 year contracts?

I am under the impression that top three round rookies bare minimum is 4 years, usually 5, and if your the Pats, 6.

[blacksoxing]

To my knowledge, no 1st/2nd rounder has EVER signed a contract less than 4 years

5 is typically the min when it comes to 1st rounders. 4 for 2nd rounders. 3-4 for 3rd. And 4-7th....3-4...but you're basically guaranteed rookie salary (and have to fight for that roster spot!)

They do 4+ year contracts to protect the team of course. And like I typed earlier, you'll basically be black balled if you try to buck the system. Only Eli & Elway have done so. And they had the media's back.

The only other way folk have bucked the system was to stay in college instead of being drafted (Palmer & Andrew Luck are prime examples of this)

[blacksoxing]

Oh yea...the contract he signed makes a lot of sense

He gets the top RB money...he gets 30M guaranteed (well...put "" around that, because Ricky Williams & Charles Rodgers had theirs taken back before....)

And most importantly, all the hostilities...GONE. It's amazing how now the media isn't whining and fans aren't close to using racial connotations like just a few days ago...

[loop610bob]

Let me know when you've got a house for sale and I'll come and buy it and at closing tell you that I don't feel like paying the full price anymore and will pay less and either stick it to you or just walk away and you're left with a house you no longer want. Seems fair right? I mean, if contracts don't amount to shit anymore you'd totally be cool with me not honoring any contract anybody ever enters in to you with right! :thumbsup:
The market becomes distorted in a monopoly. Take your complaints up with the NFL, who would sooner slit your throat than break their monopoly or have a free market. That's what the lockout was all about. Players want less regulation in the market and owners want more. If the NFL really truly hated holdouts, they would have offered to give up cutting players with contracts in order to get it. Again, the NFL would slit your throat before letting you say that out loud.
Contracts are contracts. They may not be fair but the don't sign them in the first place! For all the Titans knew he was going to suck and they'd be overpaying for a running back that doesn't produce.

It's not like these guys are getting in to anything on their own either. They have experienced agents who basically hand hold them through the entire process.

I'm sorry but Johnson, Revis, Jackson, all those guys are what's wrong with professional sports. It's all about the "me" and not the team. Are they worth more than they're making? Sure, hell ya, but at the same time it's not like the teams get to renegotiate and lower the contracts for the under performing players. How many first round pics have been paid handsomely yet never ever produced? A LOT! I'd personally LOVE for them to try that and say well "we had to pay Johnson more $$ so we need to get the $$ from somewhere else on the roster and you're sucking big time". I wonder how quickly it would take for the owners to be labeled as greedy money hungry WASPS if that was ever done.
The "team". ell-oh-friggin-el dude. It's a business that prints money and builds equity so fast that they're the envy of the world. The players are underpaid by a vast number for their services, plain and simple.
I atleast respected San Diego for what they did to Jackson and not pay him and not release him. Make his bitch ass suffer. Sure the team suffered as a result but allowing this is allowing a cancer to grow and spread throughout your locker room. Shame on NY and TN for allowing this cancer to spread.
An interesting clash of priorities. Owners crushing labor is more important than capitalism defeating communism in the NFL. I would not have guessed that from you.
No, today is a say day in professional sports where in the long run only more and more people will hold out because they think they're underpaid for getting to play a game for millions of dollars. F'ing cry me a river...
Don't hate.

[403forbidden]

CHRIS JOHNSON DID NOT CHOOSE THE TITANS! When I graduated from college, I had the option to interview wherever I pleased. When I was hired, I was told my salary and asked if I could work with it. I've outperformed it, so I'm looking for a new job. I can find one, quit my job, and have more $$$ in my bank account.

Chris Johnson was DRAFTED to the Titans. He had no choice in this. The market always dictates how much a certain draft pick receives. He would have been ridiculed if he chose not to sign his first contract. In fact, his only option would have been to re-enter the NFL draft the next year, which would have severely hampered his chances of making money and shortened his NFL career at least by a year.



While I somewhat agree with your overall post, I disagree with your above statement here.

Chris Johnson did in fact have a "choice"...there are a number of professional football leagues in the USA and abroad. He was not forced to play in the NFL. If he did not like the NFL team that drafted him, he had the choice of playing in a different league.

[loop610bob]

While I somewhat agree with your overall post, I disagree with your above statement here.

Chris Johnson did in fact have a "choice"...there are a number of professional football leagues in the USA and abroad. He was not forced to play in the NFL. If he did not like the NFL team that drafted him, he had the choice of playing in a different league.
That's like saying the best professional chefs in the world had a choice because they can always go to McDonalds.

[blacksoxing]

While I somewhat agree with your overall post, I disagree with your above statement here.

Chris Johnson did in fact have a "choice"...there are a number of professional football leagues in the USA and abroad. He was not forced to play in the NFL. If he did not like the NFL team that drafted him, he had the choice of playing in a different league.
Technically at that time he could have joined the arena league 1&2. The USFL I don't believe has started and without wikipedia'n anything, I'm confident the only "international" league would have been the Canadian football league

Both leagues just umm....not "the same" as his apprenticeship while he was an "athletic student" (I hate the term student-athlete)

The person above me has the best quote, because I've heard it before. When a chef is out of work and someone goes "well why don't you just work at burger king???"

Yea, you *could*....but that's an extreme in your line of profession which is only done to prove a point or when you've hit rock bottom/have a felony

[shhaggy]

1) The players really didn't WIN anything with this lockout. Contracts are still written on toilet paper basically. If the Titans hated him, they could release him with minimum impact on their bottom line....

I'm confused by this. If the Titans release him, that benefits CJ WAY more than it benefits the Titans. He becomes a FA. Not only does he get a fat new contract but he gets to pick from the teams bidding on him too.

[shhaggy]

I'm sorry but Johnson, Revis, Jackson, all those guys are what's wrong with professional sports. It's all about the "me" and not the team. Are they worth more than they're making? Sure, hell ya, but at the same time it's not like the teams get to renegotiate and lower the contracts for the under performing players. How many first round pics have been paid handsomely yet never ever produced? A LOT! I'd personally LOVE for them to try that and say well "we had to pay Johnson more $$ so we need to get the $$ from somewhere else on the roster and you're sucking big time". I wonder how quickly it would take for the owners to be labeled as greedy money hungry WASPS if that was ever done.


In football they very much CAN do this. Players get cut with years left on their contracts all the time. Why do you think football is the sport most afflicted with holdouts? Basketball and baseball have guaranteed contracts, so players AND owners have to honor them and you rarely see holdouts. If the owners want to be able to cut underperforming players, then this is what comes with it.

In a sport where a career ending injury could happen at any time, I don't blame this guys one bit for wanting to get paid when they have the leverage to do so.

[Danman114]

I'm confused by this. If the Titans release him, that benefits CJ WAY more than it benefits the Titans. He becomes a FA. Not only does he get a fat new contract but he gets to pick from the teams bidding on him too.
He was talking about after they drafted CJ, had he been a bust or underperformed, then the Titans don't have to 'honor' their end of the deal and they can choose to part ways paying nothing further than the guaranteed portion of his contract.

Obviously for CJ this wasn't the case.

[shhaggy]

He was talking about after they drafted CJ, had he been a bust or underperformed, then the Titans don't have to 'honor' their end of the deal and they can choose to part ways paying nothing further than the guaranteed portion of his contract.

Obviously for CJ this wasn't the case.

That's true, but it's also why rookie contracts are seeing more and more guaranteed money.

At the end of the day, my opinion is that this system is just flat out broken. Maybe rookies just shouldn't be forced OR allowed to sign long term contracts. Maybe we should implement a year to year system (of say, 5 years) whereby an arbitrator determines their salary based on their production. It's really the only fair way to do this in a sport where careers can be over in 4 or 5 years. Running backs don't generally last that long at the top of their game. Sometimes they play their best years on their rookie contract and never get a chance to hit the open market in their prime. It's not as big a problem, for example, in baseball. In baseball you don't see the open market until you're 26-29 or so and have played 6 years in the league. BUT, you're also entering your prime as you hit the open market, AND the last 3 of those 6 years does give you an outlet to negotiate salaries on some level based on performance via arbitration. The business model of football just doesn't jive with the expected career progression of it's players.

[blacksoxing]

That's true, but it's also why rookie contracts are seeing more and more guaranteed money.

At the end of the day, my opinion is that this system is just flat out broken. Maybe rookies just shouldn't be forced OR allowed to sign long term contracts. Maybe we should implement a year to year system (of say, 5 years) whereby an arbitrator determines their salary based on their production. It's really the only fair way to do this in a sport where careers can be over in 4 or 5 years. Running backs don't generally last that long at the top of their game. Sometimes they play their best years on their rookie contract and never get a chance to hit the open market in their prime. It's not as big a problem, for example, in baseball. In baseball you don't see the open market until you're 26-29 or so and have played 6 years in the league. BUT, you're also entering your prime as you hit the open market, AND the last 3 of those 6 years does give you an outlet to negotiate salaries on some level based on performance via arbitration. The business model of football just doesn't jive with the expected career progression of it's players.
Judging by the salaries of this year's draft, it's less and less.

For example, Cam Newton signed a 25M contract. Yes, it's all guaranteed....but Sam Bradford had 50M guaranteed. Double the money; same position; one year off.

These owners are about to RAPE these rookies....and I believe there's going to be a lot more CJ-type stories. Where if you're garbage, you're released with minimum impact. If you're great, you're basically forced into playing through the contract because as with this case, the fans are going to blindly be on the owner's side automatically.

[shhaggy]

Judging by the salaries of this year's draft, it's less and less.

For example, Cam Newton signed a 25M contract. Yes, it's all guaranteed....but Sam Bradford had 50M guaranteed. Double the money; same position; one year off.

These owners are about to RAPE these rookies....and I believe there's going to be a lot more CJ-type stories. Where if you're garbage, you're released with minimum impact. If you're great, you're basically forced into playing through the contract because as with this case, the fans are going to blindly be on the owner's side automatically.

I don't know about that though. As a Jets fan that went through this with Revis last year, I think the majority of us were on Revis' side.

[IPT]

Judging by the salaries of this year's draft, it's less and less.

For example, Cam Newton signed a 25M contract. Yes, it's all guaranteed....but Sam Bradford had 50M guaranteed. Double the money; same position; one year off.

These owners are about to RAPE these rookies....and I believe there's going to be a lot more CJ-type stories. Where if you're garbage, you're released with minimum impact. If you're great, you're basically forced into playing through the contract because as with this case, the fans are going to blindly be on the owner's side automatically.
this year's rookie class had their salaries capped per the new CBA
Thats why Cam's $$ is only 25 guaranteed unlike Bradford

I don't know about that though. As a Jets fan that went through this with Revis last year, I think the majority of us were on Revis' side.
btw, we'll have to deal with Revis next year on another hold out, when his guaranteed $$ runs out this year

So just to be sure, you seem to think that working as a player in the NFL is worse than holding a regular job. Am I getting your thrust, or am I confused?
i'm just saying I treat the NFL player's contract as a waste of paper lol.
MAYBE 10% of the contracts ever actually get fulfilled to the end.

[shhaggy]

btw, we'll have to deal with Revis next year on another hold out, when his guaranteed $$ runs out this year


That's another reason why this whole thing is a sham. People are going to complain about players holding out when the structure of the contract means that everyone (the player, the team, even you and me) knows that it will lead to that inevitable result. This contract is structured to get these sides back to the negotiating table next year. Revis was never expected to fulfill this contract, but some people are still going to get on him when he doesn't.

[IPT]

That's another reason why this whole thing is a sham. People are going to complain about players holding out when the structure of the contract means that everyone (the player, the team, even you and me) knows that it will lead to that inevitable result. This contract is structured to get these sides back to the negotiating table next year. Revis was never expected to fulfill this contract, but some people are still going to get on him when he doesn't.
oh i know, this is also why revis said he wasn't gonna restructure this year.
after you restructure, you can't restructure again for a year lol.

[loop610bob]

The other side of the coin.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- David Garrard lost his starting job the same way he got it: Just days before the season opener and in stunning fashion.

The Jacksonville Jaguars released Garrard on Tuesday, making a "pure football decision" that will save the franchise $9 million in 2011.
I can't even fathom the risk premium I would need to feel safe.

[shhaggy]

Sad part of that situation is that Garrard is a starting caliber QB and very much worth his pricetag. Not only did the Jags screw him here but they also waited until the worst possible time to do so. Nobody is going to install Garrard as a starter this late, he'd have to learn a new system. So he's gonna get picked up at a bargain basement price to be a backup and hope to get a chance to play minimal minutes. Then next year, if he doesn't play significant minutes this year, someone is going to bring him to camp to "compete" for a job and he'll play for a shitty contract AGAIN. This is a good player that probably lost 1-2 years of his career because of the nature of NFL contracts. This could happen to any player at any time. How can anybody blame them for holding out when they have leverage? They spend about 95% of the time at the mercy of their teams.

[ASG]

Seattle should pick him up right now and steal the NFC West.

[blacksoxing]

This is my problem w/the Garrard situation....

THE JAGS DID THE SAME THING TO LEFTWICH!!!!

It's like....they're all grown men. So, why can't the coach and the owner give David two or three weeks? Or give him time to seek a trade? (Assuming they didn't).

That's cold hearted to once again drop a QB a week before the season starts. I fully understand why they did ($$$$), and I personally love it being a Titans fan, but damn, give the man a chance to find work!


Then again, like everything in the NFL, it's business...nothing personal!

[Xygonn]

Seattle should pick him up right now and steal the NFC West.

I agree. He is way better than Jackson or Whitehurst.

[LivninSC]

For those who do not know (or care), he is a running back for the Tennessee Titans. I love the Titans from day one, so I've been following this saga for a while.

I just had to revisit this thread as I saw a game this weekend that reminded me of this guys hold out. Ya, I'm sure they're happy they paid him a buttload of $$ for a 40% drop in his per carry average and an average of 50 yards a game. But hey, as long as he's laughing all the way to the bank it's all good :D

Stats
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11258/chris-johnson

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/does_titans_rb_chris_johnson_realize_his_holdout_is_over/7039636

I guess that's what happens when you cave in to certain players demands though... They get a guaranteed $30M and they lose some of that hunger they had :( Gotta be honest though if someone was gonna give me $30M guaranteed I'd want to make damn sure I could enjoy it when I got old though!

[blacksoxing]

I just had to revisit this thread as I saw a game this weekend that reminded me of this guys hold out. Ya, I'm sure they're happy they paid him a buttload of $$ for a 40% drop in his per carry average and an average of 50 yards a game. But hey, as long as he's laughing all the way to the bank it's all good :D

Stats
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11258/chris-johnson

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/does_titans_rb_chris_johnson_realize_his_holdout_is_over/7039636

I guess that's what happens when you cave in to certain players demands though... They get a guaranteed $30M and they lose some of that hunger they had :( Gotta be honest though if someone was gonna give me $30M guaranteed I'd want to make damn sure I could enjoy it when I got old though!
To be fair though, this isn't even half the season yet and the man went through a lockout + a holdout!

If he puts up 1300 yards, 15 TDs, and helps us win games & keeps the folks gobbling up his merchandise....it'll be worth it.

[Terrell]

I liked the Titans much better when they were the Houston Oilers.

[JimOfTroy]

To be fair though, this isn't even half the season yet and the man went through a lockout + a holdout!

If he puts up 1300 yards, 15 TDs, and helps us win games & keeps the folks gobbling up his merchandise....it'll be worth it.
Given his current pace, that's wishful thinking. He just picked up his first TD this week.

[Ryu-bom]

sounds like the majority ( white ) owners are screwing the majority ( black ) player ( aka workers )

Is that the legist of this thread?:confused:

[extreme2700]

sounds like the majority ( white ) owners are screwing the majority ( black ) player ( aka workers )

Is that the legist of this thread?:confused:
Christ, why's it always about farking race with some people?

[Ryu-bom]

Christ, why's it always about farking race with some people?

I just based the question based on what the OP posted in his thread... You can still be paid well while being screwed.. the illusion of wealth DO NOT negate inequailty/mistreatment

Funny all these lockouts don't happen much in the NHL? maybe because the majority of players are WHITE..

Sometimes its just not coincidences...

[JimOfTroy]

I just based the question based on what the OP posted in his thread... You can still be paid well while being screwed.. the illusion of wealth DO NOT negate inequailty/mistreatment

Funny all these lockouts don't happen much in the NHL? maybe because the majority of players are WHITE..

Sometimes its just not coincidences...
Actually the 04-05 NHL season was cancelled entirely because of a labor dispute.

[Ryu-bom]

Actually the 04-05 NHL season was cancelled entirely because of a labor dispute.

yes and how many labor dispute have the NBA, NFL, MLB..... have, they seem to get a dispute every couple of years.. Each of those teams, where the majority of players happens to be minorities

[blacksoxing]

sounds like the majority ( white ) owners are screwing the majority ( black ) player ( aka workers )

Is that the legist of this thread?:confused:
Nah, it's more about how a RB who literally carried that offense these past few years gotta beg and hold out for more money.

As a man, I hate that. As someone who knows how business works, I see why. It's because the average RB lasts about 3 years. Many flame out after 2 years! The elite ones are the ones you hear about for 5 years it seems.

He used to do special teams. He was their primary RB. Primary target for receiver. Really their only main threat. And due to his position, he had to beg for top money. Top RB money was laughable!


The hilarity though is folks go "Chris Johnson? They overpaid him!"

But AP...."Mr Fumble"...got a million more and on average a few bits of change more a year!!! Perception!!!

Like if AP were the one that held out, and CJ didn't....it would be the opposite. AP would be the villian and CJ would be the deserving one.

Fans love ya until you hold out for money. And I hate it.




....Though it still baffles me how when Chad Johnson wanted to be traded, he was drug through the mud. Carson Palmer wanted to be traded? Hero status. I think once again though, fans love to hate Chad, so it was like "Ugh I hate this man I don't want him to get off the worst franchise in known history". But they love Palmer, so it's like "Hey, it's ok if he wanna leave. He should be able to!"


I hate how you have to be loved

[Terrell]

The annoying thing about Chad Johnson, was changing his last name to Ochocinco, when 85 in Spanish is ochenta y cinco.

[JimOfTroy]

yes and how many labor dispute have the NBA, NFL, MLB..... have, they seem to get a dispute every couple of years.. Each of those teams, where the majority of players happens to be minorities
Strikes/lockouts happen in all the pro sports leagues pretty much every time there are contract negotiations.

As your prime example, you claim the NHL doesn't have these issues due to having a majority of white players yet it is in fact the only pro sports league in the US that has ever had a season cancelled due to a lockout. And the 94-95 season when the previous CBA was negotiated they had a shortened season due to the lockout and they had a short strike in 1992 before that.

Meanwhile, the NFL had the lockout in 2011 and the last time they had a strike was almost 20 years prior in 1993. Prior to the current lockout, the last one in the NBA was 98-99, over 10 years ago. I don't recall there being one in the MLB since 94-95 so that's over 15 years ago.

Your "theory" is nothing more than you wanting it to be racism. The reality is that it is just how things tend to work in pro sports.

[LivninSC]

To be fair though, this isn't even half the season yet and the man went through a lockout + a holdout!

If he puts up 1300 yards, 15 TDs, and helps us win games & keeps the folks gobbling up his merchandise....it'll be worth it.

I'll agree that he may be able to turn it around but unless the old Chris Johnson shows up, ya know the one that actually had the hunger to be a kickass RB so he could get the big paychecks, it's gonna be another case of overspending on a player.

And I'm sorry but if I wanted to get a big fat paycheck you better believe a lockout and a holdout wouldn't have stopped me from practicing or training whatsoever. If anything it would have driven me to actually practice and train much harder to show more justification for what I was asking.

Christ, why's it always about farking race with some people?

Because some people are ignorant dipshits... Or atleast that'd be my guess :D

[IPT]

I'll agree that he may be able to turn it around but unless the old Chris Johnson shows up, ya know the one that actually had the hunger to be a kickass RB so he could get the big paychecks, it's gonna be another case of overspending on a player.

And I'm sorry but if I wanted to get a big fat paycheck you better believe a lockout and a holdout wouldn't have stopped me from practicing or training whatsoever. If anything it would have driven me to actually practice and train much harder to show more justification for what I was asking.



Because some people are ignorant dipshits... Or atleast that'd be my guess :D
you also have to factor in the Titan coaching staff said they were going to ease him back into things
He hardly played games one and two, this was result of the coaching staff, not CJ2k.

Lets be honest here, look at how many Hammy/ACL/Ankle Sprains have been since the start of the season
How many players have gone down this year? I think half the NY Giants roster is hurt right now lol.
After you paid the guy so much $$, you would expect to treat him with kid gloves and ease him into the game.
You don't want him to pull a Revis and be out 4 games.

Oh and Ryu's just using his typical race baiting. He's just spewing his hate message along with no facts.
The highest paid player in the league this year is Peyton Manning (White). #2 is Sam Bradford (white), #3 is Tom Brady.

Oh hrm, guess the white owners are really holding the players down cause of race, not even paying them their due.

[loop610bob]

I blame the unions.
The Texas Ranger nominated Dallas Mavericks power forward Dirk Nowitzki to throw out the opening pitch at one of their World Series home games. And why not? Dirk is a Dallas sports icon, and a historic figure as the first European to win an NBA MVP. His team, the Mavericks, is also the reigning NBA champions and thus an excellent good luck charm for a fellow Metroplex squad.

But Major League Baseball vetoed the idea out of respect for the NBA owners’ lockout of its players.

Note that this kind of “secondary strike” is illegal when done on the labor side. In other words, if one union goes on strike at a firm somewhere, other unions aren’t allowed to engage in solidaristic boycotts of the firm if it decides to stay in business by hiring replacement workers. The teamsters can’t refuse to make deliveries. This ban on secondary strikes deprives unions of the potentially powerful tool of cross-sector solidarity. For political purposes, unions can team up and collaborate, but in the basic world of labor negotiations they can’t. But when the NBA owners decide they won’t stage any games until players agree to accept lower pay, other rich types across the country come to their assistance and it’s all perfectly legal.

[IPT]

I blame the unions.
they caved btw after it was brought public:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7125013/2011-world-series-mlb-invite-dallas-mavericks-dirk-nowitzki-throw-first-pitch-game-3
ST. LOUIS -- Major League Baseball is going to invite Dallas Mavericks star Dirk Nowitzki to throw out the first pitch at Game 3 of the World Series.

MLB spokesman Pat Courtney said commissioner Bud Selig didn't know Nowitzki wasn't involved and thought he should be. So the league is inviting him to throw out the first pitch at Game 3 on Saturday at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

Unlike regular season games, all first-pitch assignments in the World Series have to be approved from a list of candidates by the league office.

Sources told ESPNDallas.com earlier Wednesday that -- with the NBA in the midst of a lockout that has spanned 111 days -- at least some hesitation stemmed from the idea that MLB executives want to stand behind their basketball counterparts and had notified the Rangers that they won't bestow first-pitch honors on an NBA player.

[loop610bob]

Thanks for posting that. Good on MLB for not being complete scumbags.