Orwellian Rep. Points System and how to fix it

[Streetsmart]

Any discussion that involves Reputation Points issues, is usually met by the "who cares" vs. the "we care" crowd - this of course is a question of point of view and hence totally subjective - it is not what this thread is about, though it's worth noting, that (I suspect) in the absence of contractual monitary agreement between this website and merchants (a la FatWallet), the rep points system is what differentiate Slickdeals from subsisting like many other similar sites, which in turn explains their effort to make correction to their rep. points system when deemed necessary. That system is the subject of this thread. They say simple is best, and indeed in the beginning management adopted such attitude only to realize their mistake and make a number of changes along the way, the last of which is a mysterious filter that was inserted in an effort to prevent certain individuals from giving undue points to their buddies. I use the word "mysterious" because I'm not aware where we are told exactly how the system figures this out (by all means correct me if I'm wrong by directing me to such information). In fact, as I will demonstrate here, the current system is skewed, flawed and discriminating. It is skewed because it is profit oriented at the expense of fairness. It is flawed because it failes to elimintate the "buddy system" and to address the other side of the coin - individuals who intentionally thumb down a thread in an effort to discourage other from giving points. It is discriminating because relatively few members, those with significant rep. points, are directly affected by it, and among those few, some do not seem to have any "points limit" rule used against them. Hence the use of "Orwellian" in the title - 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'. Granted these are strong accusations, however I stand behind them based on close observations of the system in recent months (because of the relatively small number of affected members, this is not as time consuming as one would otherwise think).
Take a look at a recent example: On 5/5/05 this thread appeared:

http://forums2.slickdeals.net/t98522.html?

Note that there are no complaints from members regarding inability to credit points. This rep. points gate open scenario is further supported by this particular poster pre/post post points balance. Of further interest is the OP's poor post to point ratio. On 5/6/05 yours truely posted this:

http://forums2.slickdeals.net/t98841.html?

Note that instantly members report that they are prevented by the system from giving points.
Also note the very high post to point ratio. Again, this is a single example of numerouse such occasions in the past. Hits from posted links generate income (profit), nothing wrong with this per se, and this may explain why someone with poor post to point ratio is seemingly enjoying free points system unlike members with high post to point ratio. There's plenty wrong if one factors out the proift issue from the equation, thus the accusations above.
Random PM to one of the Mods generated a response essentially in agreement with the current system shortcomings, and suggested forwarding this to the top guy, so a link will be PMed to the fellow.
Lastly, this thread, I feel, will not be complete without suggestions of how to fix the system. A few then, are listed below:
1. Limit the maximum points per thread to somewhere around 10 -15 points.
2. Limit the number of points member "x" can give memeber "y" based on number of points allowed per thread combined with a time interval (i.e. if you gave "y" points today, you will only be able to give points to "y" again in 3 weeks time, or after a to be determined number of posts by "y").
3. Initial "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" to a given thread must first be approved by Moderators.
4. Once section "3" is adopted 2 points should be deducted by mods only for "thumb down". Further "thumbs down" will not result in point(s) deductions.
5. People whe earned high points to post ratio, have demonstrated ability to recognize a good deal, and should be rewarded for their contribution to the site - they should be allowed to give more points than average, equal for example, to Mods.
6. Construct a statistically robust system for calculating and posting members post to points ratios ("posts" meaning deal posts not responses to posted threads), this ratio posted, is far more accurate and telling than simply posting points balance. Rank members accordingly.
Once you get your act together, consider awarding monthly prizes based on a fair and scientific system.
Without a leveled playing field, there's no game - at least not for me.

[jen_wv]

Im confused SS.. are we in some sort of competition? :confused:

You pointed to my thread in your comments regarding others not being able to "rep point" me for the "free tea" post.

I think, and I may be mistaken but, those individuals recently gave me a rep point for a different post, therefore the system wont allow them to give multiples to one person within a certain period of time.

Fair enough. Right?

With the second thread you quote that those in that thread claim they werent able to give you a rep point because

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Streetsmart again"

Not fair?? How so?

Once again, they were prevented by the system to give you a rep point.


Since you post so many threads, could it be that they may have given you a point for something else recently and arent allowed to give again so quickly??

Its kinda like the newbies who cant give reps until they "go green". I understand the concept but its a double edged sword. Give it to them, then people could make up new user names and rep themselves. Dont allow it and newbies dont have a say.


In any case, I tend to agree with you when it comes to a 'thumbs down'.

I have seen many occurances ( mostly in freebies) where if someone didnt get in on the deal in time, they "Thumbs Down" the thread. I feel that is childish and stupid and have voiced my opinion in the forum.

But will it effect anyone really? I dont think so but that is also my opinion. Is rep points such a big deal to anyone? I dont know about you but I dont get anything for them. I enjoy getting the thanks though.

And I usually reciprocate just for the thought. Its not a game or competition for me. Its all in fun, just like the posting.

Feel free to correct me if Im wrong because I could be misunderstanding your claim. But if you feel the rep system distinguishes you as a reputable member, youre mistaken.

Anyone on SD's that sees the Name StreetSmart, knows theyre getting a good deal.

[benjie]

First of all, this isn't a masters thesis, nor is it a proposal to the board of a Fortune 500 Company. The level (and amount) of writing that you used to get your point across is ridiculous. There are times when, as you said, simple is better. This is one of those times.

Second, don't get me confused with someone else - I care about rep points. I may not go about whoring for them, or posting deals simply in hopes of getting some, but I do enjoy it when I get some. But you seem to have gone way overboard with your love for them. Almost, it would seem, to an unhealthy level. If these are this important in your life, I'd sugest you take up a non-computer hobby.

Finally, your suggestions are outrageous. Do you really think that rep points are important enough to deserve that much work from our already busy mod team? I can say with some degree of certainty that Mr. SD would take the whole system back down before putting that much work into something that is little more than a novelty. Your idea of this as a competition, with prizes and winners, is just plain funny.

[arjunsr]

i agree with benjie for the most part. streetsmart, you put way too much into it that your point gets lost in it.

the system is a set amount, member x can only give member y so much rep in z amount of days.

max rep per thread shouldn't matter. its an idea of how many people you've helped with good posts. whether they are good deal posts or general helpful members.

as to thumbs up/down IMHO i'd rather see it be done away with rather then get mod approval. the whole point of it is to get user opinions on the thread, something i personally don't like could be a great deal to others.

i don't see contests happening, IMO it'd just lead to people begging for them.

[jhlemmeriii]

rep should stay what it is, a way to say thank you if you want... nothing more

[kel_be]

rep should stay what it is, a way to say thank you if you want...
Or like some of the one's I've gotten, a way to let someone know just how you feel about them :rolleyes:

[justme-]

Jen is correct, with her assumption about posters already having given her a rep point for another posting and being unable to give her another one. Think about it- if you post alot of deals, especially in a short amount of time, you're prevented from recieving a rep from someone for all of them because of the "cheater" timer filter thingy so you won't get all the reps you may have been going to recieve.
An important thing to note which is a major flaw in your theory Streetsmart, is that rep point to posting ratio which means absolutly nothing. It is a ratio you have created on your own with no bearing on the actual postings of the forums because you're assuming that each post made by given person is creating a new entry, and therfore a new deal. This may be the case with yourself, but it is certainly not the case with the majority of slickdealers. Look at my "ratios". Jen (I single her out only because you did to support you're accusations) has made many more postings that are not creating deals than rep points would be deserved, as well as having a substantial number of postings to her credit before the rep point system was created.

It's definatly you're mideset- thinking there should be prizes awarded by Slickdeals?? Ranking Members??? WTH are you on about?! This is a deals website not a free game or competition that you seem to think it is. We're all here to find great deals, not to compete for "fabulous prizes". Want a free game you can get ranked in search the web, there's tons of them out there. If you spent the time searching for deals instead of writing that doctorate thesis you'd probabily have more posts and rep points to your credit too.
Rep points SHOULD be only an indication of appretiation of input or postings from other users- NOTHING MORE. We all know postcount doesn't mean someone knows anything more, is any smarter, or has been here any longer than anyone else- post count simply means they have made that number of posts. Look at The Glock or Geeke, who both have high post counts but have not been here as long as some others, such as Benjie.

Those numbers MEAN NOTHING unless you want to make something of them.

the thumbs up/down are for USER opinion and have nothing to do with rep points I have never seen a Thumbs down posting that didn't deserve it. Mod approval.... come on.

[Geeke19]

Good God People take rep points to serious!!