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|06-11-2013 01:21 PM|
|05-18-2013 01:52 PM|
you might be able to wait until this time next year and get an ST60 for about the same price as the display you are looking at..maybe not
IMO...the glare filter is step backward on the ST60 vs ST50...however the black level is better on the ST60
If absolute black level is something important to you...then ST60..if a better glare filter is then its theST50( and more money in your pocket)
I would seriously doubt the Samsung F8500 is moving in price much, if any, until at least 6 months from now
Its too highly rated and Samsung seems to have put the screws on retailers/etailers in regard to price controls
|05-18-2013 09:42 AM|
|05-17-2013 03:47 AM|
If you are patient and a little lucky...you can check searsoutlet.com....search by brand and size
It will give you all the displays that they have in their system and the current price
The prices are store and unit specific....you sometimes can get lucky and have one close to you
With my job I travel in a 3 state area over the course of a month...so i am able to look in a wider area
It even tell you how many of the money they have in their system and you can get a sense of what their markdown price will be
In regard to how much better they can get..I dont know
The simple fact is that samsung's TV business is making money and Panasonics is not
Financial health tends to drive R&D
I think plasma will be around until they can get OLED to a much lower price point
I doubt you will see any price movement for 3-4 months. They have given Magnolia Home theater an exclusive on the ZT for 60 days...which I am sure will be at MSRP and maybe inclusive of some free items
I am intrigued by the F8500 and its LED like brightness...but no way will I spend $3400
I will keep my E8000 for at least the next couple of years and see how the products shale out
perhaps by then there will truly be the "reference" panel available that outdoes the Kuro
|05-16-2013 08:37 PM|
How much better can panasonic,samsung make plasmas then the ST/VT? Probably not much right...
EDIT...Forgot to mention, Costco sells the S64, which is the same as the S60 but with a reflective filter in it. Its the 65 inch version for only $1399. Pretty awesome. Also, I've heard people say the ST60 has noticeable input lag and the S60 has very little if none. So if you game, S60 is better. Theres a video on youtube of a guy showing the lag on the ST60 and the S60.
|05-16-2013 06:26 AM|
In the shootout..there was something else that was put on the table;
In the last 6 months of production, Kuro panels( both Pioneer and Elite branded) from one particular facility are better than any of the other Kuros even. This was confirmed by the calibrators in the shoot out
This is widely known( and coveted) I gathered, by videophiles
The choice between the VT60 and F8500 is splitting hairs and IMO 99% subjective
The ZT is a waste of money
The ST60 is the "deal" TV of 2013
I did see the Panny 42...that is a good deal if you have a non- bright application
I have last years 50ST50 that I bought at Sears as display for $329..
I can tell it has less of a glare filter than my Samsung 8000 has or last years VT50
For the price I paid though..its a great set
|05-16-2013 05:44 AM|
Did you see the 42 inch S60 on the front page for $400? Thats a steal IMO. I have the 60 inch UT50, which is last years version of the S60. Not sure what the MLL measurement is for the S60, but it definitely has great black level. Probably slightly worse MLL than the ST60, only noticeable side by side.
|05-15-2013 04:00 AM|
as the 4 year Kuro still outperforms their offerings
If I were shopping for a main room TV today I would immediately cross the ZT from the list
Way overpriced...based on the shootout
And to think Magnolia Home Theater has a 2 month exclusive on it before its rolled out to smaller dealers
Probably at list price
I would lean heavily towards the F8500 or VT60...but just might circle back to the ST60
The VT doesn't seem to offer much more than a better glare filter and some features( SMART) that are not important to me
The Samsung has a better filter and bright room performance. Subjectively, I like its design better and like the Panasonic, its SMART features would not be used
That being said I think the ST2013 is the value performance TV of 2013
Samsung has done a smart marketing move by making a TV that overcomes much of the LED crowds issue with plasmas...brightness
Maybe they can tap into the other 90 of the market that doesn't buy plasma with the F8500
|05-15-2013 12:41 AM|
Anyway, I agree that the top 3 is preference. Like you said, sammy for bright rooms and panny for dark rooms. Honestly though, if I had no budget, I'd still buy the Panny even for a dark room because the black is so close to the VT/ZT, and I would like the extra brightness for better whites.
The VT was actually better IMO than the ZT. The VT could put out 35fl and the ZT could only put out 30fl because of the better filter on the ZT witch caused slightly reduced light output. Other than that, they we pretty much identical in everything.
Definitely agree with you about the ST-60. It should of been at the shootout. Easily the deal of the year, and I would buy that one myself. I'm not sure of the MLL measured for its black levels, but pretty sure its close to the ZT/VT. If you watched the stream, D-Nice (Calibrator at the shootout) said the ST-60 he calibrated got to 60fl, which is awesome fora plasma. Probably second best to the samsung (which was 90fl or something).
Didn't really see the Panny LED. I missed a lot of day 1 and didn't see any of day 2. I'll have to wait until they post the edited videos on there youtube page. Don't know why the WT was there though. A lot of people in the chat were also saying the sony 4K was performing terrible too. ST-60 and sharp elite should of been in the shootout though. Even the S-60 could of been in it.
BTW, The calibrator votes chose the ZT/VT as the winner, with the F8500 coming in a close 3rd. Value Electronics posted the results on there facebook page. It had a quote from D-nice saying if the VT60 is a 10 the F8500 is a 9, because he doesn't care about panel brightness over 30FL.
|05-14-2013 04:05 AM|
I see that the F8500 won the shootout as best overall TV
|05-13-2013 04:35 PM|
well hopefully you saw the results of the shootout
a few takeaways for me from it
Saying that any of the top 3 is a clear winner is BS...way to much subjectivity
They are all excellent sets. It comes down to preference for a feature set and/or design
Panasonic advertised a Kuro killer in the ZT. They didnt get there
In the shootout the calibrators said the comparing black levels on the 3 top TV's was splitting hairs
If you have a very bright room with windows...clearly the Samsung is your TV with its LED-like brightness
Unlike CSIG1001...I am not a brand fanboy. I own both samsung and Panasonic and have said a few times I would replace my E8000 with a VT50 all things being considered
I do think Samsung made a smart marketing move with a LED type brightness plasma to capture some of the other 90% of the market that is not buying plasma TV's
Based on the shootout
why would anyone spend $500-800 on the ZT over the TV?
seems like waste of money
The deal of the year is the ST60...at $1000 less( or more) than any of them and 98% of the performance
I am not sure what Panasonic was thinking there...the performance is too close ...but the price is clearly not
One issue though
I disagree with you on the ST60 filter...it does not seem very good to my eyes. That is where I can see a big difference in it and the VT
But not $1000...LOL
In fact...the less aggressive filter allowed the ST to actually outperform the VT...according to some of the calibrators there..based on their personal experiences
Why did Panasonic have that WT series LED there?...completely out of its league
The blacks looked blue in the picture
I am glad they had a Kuro there....5 year old TV and still the standard in many things
I wished they had had a Sharp Elite there as well
I see that the Samsung F8500 thread is the busiest on AVS forum and has been for at least the last couple of weeks
I predict Samsung will do well with that TV
|05-08-2013 05:22 AM|
@turnne @CSIG1001...Stop arguing like two girls. Lets just see what happens after the 2013 HDTV shootout on May 10th and 11th. Then we'll know what TV is better than the other in each category.
@turnne...I agree with you about 4k being pointless unless you're viewing a huge screen 100 plus inches. You beat me to posting that CNET article lol. I do disagree with you on the glare of the ST60 compared to the S60. I've seen both side by side and can easily tell a difference in the glare. The ST60s glare is much less. The filter seems good to me.
@CSIG1001...I've been following the F8500 thread on AVS. One of the known members who I think is ISF certified gave the edge to the F8500. What I take from what I read is the F8500 has the closest OLED picture because of the best brightness a plasma has ever had combined with the great black levels. I do think the ZT60 will have the best black levels of the year and possibly ever. Maybe surpassing the Kuro. The brightness will most likely not be as good though. So its going to be preference. Best blacks with less bright picture or great blacks with great brightness. To me the better brightness is more important then the slightly better black levels. The contrast ratio on the Samsung will be greater than the Panasonic because of this. I think I might go Samsung this year.
|05-03-2013 07:54 PM|
again...you seem to drink the marketing hype coolade
The glare filter on the ST60 is not good at all
"slighter better black levels not noticeable to the human eye"....so anything better than the ST60 is worthless then right...since you cant see it?
I guess we will see what Panasonic finances are at the end of 2013...and that will be the litmus test
Perhaps the ST60 will be even cheaper than I bought my ST 50 for....a 50" for $329 at Sears Outlet
I really doubt Samsung will have any problems selling this TV..or making a profit on their TV business in 2013
That is what really matters
The rest is frankly BS
Would love to see the results in a double blind test and see how many people can perceive a difference on a say a 50" screen at 8 feet away..vs 1080P
|05-03-2013 07:38 PM|
|05-03-2013 07:22 PM|
Review for the VT60 has been fully tested by a professional calibrator on the Avs forums. The F8500 is not much better then a ST60, only advantage is the brighter MLL and filter ,less glare. Color reproduction the ST60 wins with the F8500 has slightly better black which isnt noticeable to the human eye. The exact numbers of the test is on the site. This tv should be more like 2399 for the 64".
The ST60 has been proven to be the best buy vs a VT50 .
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