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|07-16-2014 02:59 PM|
Maybe you found a decent place. All I can say is that in 25+ years and multiple jobs both as a consultant and employee, I only once was at a place where by Director gave a damn about me and my team and that was in the last 5 or so years of my last job. We had a great team and people worked well together and socialized after work quite a bit and all became friends. Of course after a number of years there (15+, 5 with my last boss) the company outsourced the whole lot of us (including my boss) to India. My experience for what it is worth.
As to your EVP, I have rarely met one that isn't an a-hole to a varying degree. I have met a few normal people in those positions, but they are few and far between. If he really cared about you, then why didn't he get you what you deserved at your last review? Why is he waiting until now? The cynic in me says it is because now you forced him to. And you will likely be forced to do the same thing come the next time you want a bump up. Again my 2 cents for what it is worth.
That is not to say your new offer is necessarily better. All you can do is compare the whole package and make a rational decision based on pay, people, hours, stress, travel time, benefits, etc. All I am saying is that you owe your current place NOTHING. You worked there and got paid. End of story. If you feel the other place is a better job and want to switch, then it is your current firm's loss. Zebras do not change their stripes as the saying goes, and a company that underpays and takes avantage of employees will continue to do so imo.
|07-16-2014 02:41 PM|
Essentially I am leaving a bad company however a really really good group that I actually work with 95% of the time. The group at the new company seemed a lot more serious and it might be a cultural shock to me to be honest. The CEO has to approve all bonuses and raises even though he doesn't know 98% of the work force...
Maybe my problem is I shouldn't mix so much personal life with work (specially management)?
|07-16-2014 11:48 AM|
In my experience, it is not a good idea to take counter offers. A company that counter-offers is basically saying, "we were screwing you before and now that you figured all that out and are leaving, we have decided to stop screwing you and pay you what you are worth...for now." They will simply start scrrewing you again with the next annual raise\promotion.
There are exceptions of course, but most companies know they rip younger people off and expect them to leave at a certain point. They simply want to recycle workers and go hire younger and cheaper talent rather than pay market rates for more experienced workers. They do not care about value of work or experience as all they are looking at is a budget line item and treat everyone the same more or less. It is not necessarily logical, but it is definitely in play at a lot of companies.
If you decide to leave and give notice, you should have already resolved to leave and move on. If you are still thinking about the offer, then you do not give notice obviously. My rule of thumb was give 2 weeks notice (not a minute more) and tell them nothing beyond you are leaving for a better offer. If they mention they would like to counter offer politely say you are not interested and they should have thought about that at your last review. At the exit interview you say no comment on everything so nothing comes back at you later. Do not tell them the new position, how much, the new company, etc as they are neither entitled to know that information nor can you necessarily trust them to not go around and try and sabotague you with any connections they might have at the new place. You never know. The less said at that point the better. Some HR type will babble about trying to improve the situation for others that are still there...it is all nonsense. Unless there was some personal conflict with your manager or whoever, they know the deal already...it is the pay\hours. and they neither care nor have any intent about doing anything about it.
|07-16-2014 11:29 AM|
|07-16-2014 11:17 AM|
I'd definitely see if your current company will do anything to get you to stay. Why move for 68-72k and crappy benefits and a lot more work and more stress if you are able to get say 60k, better benefits, less stress and much more free time?
I guess it depends on what you're after. If you care purely about money and your career, move. To me, quality of life is more important than pay. Losing 2-3 hours every day of my life due to extra work/travel would not be worth 10k that I wouldn't even be able to spend due to very little free time.
That said, with the huge salaray bump you can EASILY afford to pay off whatever your contract cancellation fee was, or even pay for a few months of rent to your buddies to make up for you leaving them and move much closer to work and still have a ton of left over money. That removes one of the major problems with the new job.
|07-16-2014 08:48 AM|
|SlickDilla||Take the money and run, dont listen to these other suckers.|
|07-15-2014 07:44 PM|
Actually, in a lot of companies, that is the main function of many managers lol. They sit around all day doing nothing but brown nosing their bosses and they only hire\promote people that are just like them. A lot of times, the last thing these useless people want is someone who can think for themselves and know what they are doing because they represent a threat to their job potentially.
|07-15-2014 06:58 PM|
Yep. Forget the promise of a promotion. Even if you get it, the same company won't give you that big a salary raise. Move out to move up.
Based on what you're said, you're putting in more time for more money. It might be worth it depending on how much you value that time. Or, wait for something closer or better to come along.
|07-15-2014 06:26 PM|
I just signed a lease in my new place for a year in June 2014 with some guys I know. I would have to find someone to take my spot
|07-15-2014 06:23 PM|
Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated!
I am in negotiations right now with the new company they offered 68k and am trying to get them to agree to 72k+ because the benefits are pretty below par. Also I will be working around 50 hrs a week instead of the about 40-45 I do now. I plan on telling my boss tomorrow to see if I can get a counter offer, however the job at the new place is a lot more analytical and will probably open up more doors in the future.
It will be a lot more stress then I currently have and I will probably lose an extra 2-3 hours a day due to commute + extra hours.
A lot to think about.
Also, it seems like everyone in the group has been promoted within a year or so at the new job so that is also promising.
|07-15-2014 05:45 PM|
Now had I stayed at AA, after 10 years I would have been in a very comfortable situation, low possible low-middle management, with a nice future.... just as the Enron scandal hit and right in the middle of the internet crash.
Because I was young, ambitious, picked up good skills and had good references (even from PW) I was still recruited actively. I got out of IT at that point, but had I stayed in the field, the third job I would have to make stick.
So I say go for it. Titles are not nearly as important as your skills, knowledge and responsibilities. And keep your eyes open because all companies - even the most established... and sometimes ESPECIALLY the most established... are not forever.
|07-15-2014 04:30 PM|
|07-15-2014 02:47 PM|
|07-15-2014 01:52 PM|
So you are saying the person should take less money so that they can potentially land a job at a company like yours that is unwilling to pay fair market rates to keep employees around and then complains that they leave when they are smart enough to get a better position elsewhere? Or are you saying that if they BS you properly then it is OK? In the former you get what you pay for. In the latter, you are being illogical.
If you pay cheap then do not be surprised if people leave when a better deal comes along.
To the Op, take the job that pays the best all things being equal (pay, hours, environment, people, location, etc). There is NO company loyalty and there never has been. Companies will drop you the second they can not make money off of you or do not need you or figure they can replace you with some $10 an hour person in Mumbai. You should treat them the same way.
|07-15-2014 12:33 PM|
New job unknown old job known...take known until you have a slam dunk better job
Grass is not always greener..the promotion will look good to future employers
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