Credit Card - Additional Surcharge Fees to begin Jan 27th
 

This is my first post- please be nice.


Starting Jan 27th merchants in the US and US territories, may add a surcharge to certain credit card transactions. This surcharge is going to be know as a checkout fee. It is a fee that seems to be aroudn 2% but is capped at a max of 4%. Read the links below and see for yourself--- these are fees that merchants will add to your bill if you use a credit card at checkout.


http://usa.visa.com/personal/usin...index.html

http://usa.visa.com/download/merc...uirers.pdf

Just a heads up!

This post can and should be edited by users like you :)
 

OP thread title is MISLEADING!!! Read the Wiki for more info.

What This Means for Consumers:

• First thing first, nothing will change unless retailers decide to do something. There is NO NEW fee added by Visa/MC. Customers have been paying for credit card fee forever. Retailers just add it to their operation cost (and recover their expenses like this by increasing their product/services price/fee).
• Consumers will pay an additional fee when they use their credit card at retailers that decide to surcharge (outside of the 10 protected states). No one forcing retailers to add those surcharge at all. They were NOT allowed to do it before 1/27/13 but with this change, they can if they want.
• Consumers should be aware there are limits to the amount merchants can surcharge. (Merchant surcharges cannot in any event exceed the maximum amount of 4% of the underlying transaction.)
• Retailers are permitted to apply a surcharge to only credit card purchases and cannot impose a surcharge for purchases made using a debit or prepaid card.
• If retailers intend to impose a surcharge on credit card purchases, they are required to notify customers before customers make an actual purchase at the store entrance and at the point of sale – or in an online environment, on the first page that references credit card brands.
• Retailers must disclose surcharge fees on every receipt – both in store and online. Carefully review receipts where checkout fees should appear.
• States that limit surcharging: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. Consumers who are subjected to a surcharge or checkout fees in these states may want to report the retailer to their state attorney general’s office.
• It all falls down to the RETAILER's decision on whether they choose to pass the surcharge to the consumer or not (outside of the 10 protected states). All credit cards (not just Visa) will follow the merchant's decision.

Stores that operate in any of the 10 states that ban surcharges are not prohibited from surcharging in other states. From the Visa Surcharging FAQ [visa.com]:
“We have discussed the settlement with many, many merchants, and not a single merchant we have spoken to plans to surcharge,” Craig Shearman, spokesman for the National Retail Federation (NRF), said in a statement. The NRF was not involved in the class action lawsuit.

NBC News contacted some of the country’s largest retailers. Wal-Mart, Target, Sears and Home Depot said they have no plans to add a credit card surcharge.

Miscellaneous Discussion
wheres the hot deal
In order to process credit cards you cannot add the fees price into the cost of the item. Your processing power would be taken away if they found out you do this (paypal did this to my business once :(). So there is no "double dipping" the business is simply passing the fee onto the customer, and honestly that makes sense and is why they won the lawsuit. Why should a business have to pay 3%+ extra just for some customers that choose to pay by credit card? This law doesn't give businesses any extra money it just prevents the credit card companies from taking a cut of the profit without the customers knowledge, and if the customer doesn't like it they can pay by cash/check or use a credit card with a lower fee.
Counter: If business price the CC surcharge into the price of their services, adding an additional explicit surcharge is double dipping. The only way it is not double dipping is if they actually reduce their prices first.


For this change, Visa/MC are NOT charging extra fee they are not already charging. So NO additional fee from Visa/MC.

The ONLY different for most of us is people pay with CASH/debit card MAY pay less outside those 10 states if the retailer want to do this by adding surcharges to credit card customer AND they reduce the price of their products/services?
If retailer just add surcharges to credit card customer but didn't decrease price of their product/service, those extra fees will be pure profit for the retailer(?).

For those states that disallow surcharge, customer pay with CASH/debit card will cover the credit card fee for other customers also?

There is confusion regarding whether accepting American Express means a retailer can't surcharge. The NBC article [nbcnews.com] and WSJ article [wsj.com] disagree.

bye VISA, I will switch to MC

they just jack the price up for payment by credit card, like gas stations...it's 10 to 15 cents more per gallon for gas if you pay by credit card than if you pay by cash, call it by whatever name, there is still a surcharge.

yeah I will definitely stop using all my visa cards if this is the case.

Surcharging isn’t allowed everywhere. Currently, there are laws limiting surcharging in: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas

Will also get rid of Visa

says only on credit cards, not visa debit cards but if you live off credit cards like a lot of people then it's gonna cost more to use Visa. I have 1 visa CC and I never even use it, I'm surprised they haven't closed it for lack of account activity.

i guess i am safe

Does this include debit cards?

no only credit cards

I wonder how gas stations get around it. Maybe there's a law specific for gas that allows it.

insane

MasterCard not safe either. But if a retailer has a presence in any of the banned states, they can't charge it.

"Visa and MasterCard will be allowed to add a service charge to the purchase price.

Credit card surcharges are banned by law in 10 states: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.

Visa and MasterCard have rules that require retailers to handle credit cards the same way in all of their stores across the country. That means a chain with stores in any of the 10 states where a surcharge is banned would not be able to have a surcharge at any of its stores."

It's not just Visa credit cards

http://www.mastercard.us/merchant...rules.html

is it only for visa?

how about mc, discover, amex

Good thing I live in a banned state

by making it a discount for cash rather than a surcharge for credit?

More taxations....

It's not just visa' it's MasterCard and Discover too. Debit cards are exempt and from what I read American express card agreement forbids extra charges too. It's really BS to begin with because those fees are already built into merchants prices to begin with. They know everyone lives by using credit cards to make things simple, carry less cash, get points etc.. They consider that the cost of doing business and I highly doubt you'll see them lower their prices due to the change so it's extra revenue for them. It will be interesting to see which merchants decide to pass these fees on and risk upsetting their customers.

Just passing on the cost to the consumers. When will people realize that the liberal ideas of taxing companies doesn't work. Companies don't pay tax, all costs are passed on to the consumer.

Wall Street Journal article on surcharges: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1...27718.html

Important information, but it belongs in Deal Talk, not Hot Deals.

Agreed, alerted Mods. NBC link:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/a...-1C8086499

haha California is perfectly fine. :) NO SURCHARGE HERE!

Just more CA taxes passed on by a worthless CA governement.

It's pretty fair that credit card customers have to pay more. Previously, all us Slickdeals that use cashback cards are subsidized by non-rewards credit card holders and cash customers. The retailer should have the right to charge higher prices based on higher costs due to a particular form of payment.

Previously, all of the credit cards companies did not allow the retailer to charge a surcharge -- thus, the retailer had to eat the cost of the surcharge. Also, different credit card companies charge different rates, but the retailer had to charge the same price even though certain cards had higher transaction fees.

With the new system, there's the potential for free-market competition on the credit card surcharge fees. If the retailer charges you 3% extra to use an American Express card vs 2% for a Visa, then American Express may become a less popular option. American Express then has incentive to lower their rates to the merchant in order to compete.

That's just my take. We'll have to see how it shakes out.

Think the surcharge is more up to the merchant than the CC company. And the merchant does so at his or her own peril.

The fee percentage has always varied by retailer. Back in the 90's I was part owner in a motorcycle shop. Since our average purchase was considerably higher than most retailers except appliance and furniture stores, we only had to pay 3% when most merchant agreements were 5%. Retailers with small value purchases (under $50 per sale) usually got charged the full 5%.

The NBC story had the most info-thanks for the post! I dont think this can gain much ground.

Good for CA. You've still got a gigantic lead in taxes and fees you have to pay.

No $hit, I'm almost embarrassed to admit I live here.

Correct, and if the merchant accepts American Express, they cannot surcharge Visa and MC if they accept them also.

So, for all practical matters, it is gonna be very hard to be able to legally surcharge VISA/MC transactions, either due to the State you live in having a law prohibiting surcharging, and/or because the merchant also accepts AMEX, and/or because the merchant does not want to scare off consumers. ;) etc.

I'm in NY but don't use Visa as a credit card anyways. Thanks for the heads up OP.

lol what?

I don't get this. You'd rather your fees go to MC? Now that's loyalty!

I heard MC is doing this as well, heard it on the radio an hour ago. They said Visa and MC.


This

Thank goodness for Bitcoins [bitcoin.org]!

Yes, we are all saved...

so much for our economy. more and more add on fees.

That.

this is hot deal. this is hope & change that we are all waiting for.

Get rid of VISA. Thats the moto!

Wrong thread location. This isn't a hot deal. Put visa in the title.

no, you are not safe. unless you seat where you are. dont buy from any online stores that are located or have warehouses/offices at the states not listed.

something had to be done to discourage Visa/Mastercard/Discover etc from jacking up their fees all the time, so now we get to vote with our wallets...

Added info to the wiki.

Doesnt look like it will effect a ton of people with the clause that if a chain has 1 store in 1 of the banned states then they cannot impose the fee.

Still this is total BS expecting consumers to pick up the tab.

this post doesn't make any sense to me lol

The card market is ridiculously competitive. They aren't going to start adding the fees to your total. Amex, Visa, MasterCard are sitting ducks to Square, PayPal, etc. They're all on pins and needles as processing fees are under attack. Passing them along to the consumer is a losing proposition for the merchants and card companies.

As a side note... you're already paying for the processing fees in the price of whatever you purchase. It's not like merchants don't anticipate card fees.

so there will not be any credit card surcharges in california?

um... you do realize square, paypal, .etc all still use CCs?

This does not take effect yet. From the WSJ article linked to earlier:

"Q: When will merchants be able to impose surcharges?

A: Not until the settlement gets approval in U.S. District Court. That might not happen until at least the end of this year, or even later."

i thought amex didn't care about surcharges as long as it's the same rate as visa/mc..?

So are credit card customers subsidizing the costs of cash register drawers, transporting and counting cash, and the loss due to miscounts? Many large businesses have to pay the banks for change and counting deposits and such. Or do you think the armored truck companies do it for free? This is just another excuse to raise prices.

Paypal doesn't require a credit card and the card companies see Square and Paypal as a future threat to eliminate card fees. Change is inevitable, but explaining how it unfolds probably requires a crystal ball.

well, I only use CCs with paypal. I just don't trust paypal. But I know that they're pushing their other payment methods.
square so far just seems to be a middle man between CCs and merchants

I would be surprised if other credit card issuers don't follow what VISA is implementing.


Thumb this up to increase awareness and show that we, the people, won't take crap like this.

paypal is great for the buyer, sucks for the seller and I don't see many businesses flocking to paypal on the sheer fact that many buyers can claim chargebacks with nearly 90% success despite obvious scamming by the buyer.

This is bullshit.

I don't have a problem with this, 99% of american consumers are sheep

Does anyone know if they are required to notify you in some way when you use your card?

You do realize lots of people use credit card for all of their transactions not because they are poor and don't have cash to pay up front, but because they want to be smart and get rewards points by using credit cards. I got at least 200-300 cash back at the end of every year simply because I use credit card for all my purchases. All you have to do is pay back in full (not the minimum amount) on your monthly statement to avoid any interest charge.

At least found something good in California.

Merchants are supposed to have a notice at the front door and at the register if they choose to have credit card surcharges, They are also supposed to list the surcharge clearly on your receipt.

did you file tax on that income?

Somehow first post makes you special! Are you the chosen one? Are you the blessed one?

i own stores that accept cards, our processing gateway is at 2.2%, and it gets cheaper once you reach a certain threshold.

I highly doubt any large retail chains are going to implement credit card surcharges.

Let's say Target implemented a credit card surcharge don't you think Walmart would start advertising that they don't have a surcharge to attract Target's customers?

The article was from the middle of last year.

The merchants need to pay the fee no matter what, so basically right now if you pay cash you are getting screwed because the extra 2-5% is not going to the CC Company it is going to the merchant. If you use a rewards card you at least get a small piece of that fee back. The reality is if merchants can charge a fee for the CC's then cash prices will be lower. At first if retailers just tack the fee onto existing prices then there is really no benefit to this, but eventually the cash prices could level due to competition and there would be a slight savings. From the standpoint of payment systems, it is a step back however.

Nice. The gubmint vilifies using cash. And then electronic money gets a surcharge.

Any ideas on what businesses plan to do about this? I assume if major retailers start adding a surcharge than it will move down the food chain as a common practice. Or it could be a new marketing point for businesses, "no credit surcharge". Also, any idea if this applies to paypal?

did you know what 85% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Most banks started issuing american express after all. Why stick with visa or mc?

Thats why I use AMEX!

Good post. Avoiding fees is a requirement of a slick deal.

In my state it is illegal to add a surcharge, however I know a place that does it. What can I do?

I know fees are A LOT lower now than they were back then. Makes me think of all the money that those fees cost me over the years.

So if I understand correctly, Visa and MC always charge fee and there is nothing new. But they used to force retailer, doctor or restaurant so that they can't charge more if customer pay with credit card(?).
So even before this changes, customer are already paying for all the credit card fee but people pay with cash also need to pay the fee by retailer adding the cost to the products price.

With this change, the only different is retailer, doctor or restaurant , etc can said they can charge less if customer pay with cash? But charge extra 2-3% if pay with credit.

But for people in states like Cal, Colorado, NY, Texas, etc, the State ban the surcharges so everything will still be the same. Meaning customer pay with cash will also pay the retailer to cover the credit card fee they pay (higher retail price)?

Seems like the only real different for most of us is you may pay less if you pay with cash outside those 10 states?? Since retailer always pass on the credit card fee to their customer before anyway.

Because AMEX isn't accepted nearly as often at merchants as Visa or MC....primarily because AMEX processing fees to merchants is higher (.3%+).

That's why most car dealership have always refused to take credit cards towards vehicle purchases.

If companies aren't taxed, they'll still charge the same to the consumer. Don't think companies aren't greedy.

The same way a lot of merchants have gotten around it for years....a 3% cash discount (which would also apply to debit use). On the other hand, online retailers without a B&M storefront could easily add the checkout fee.

what really pisses me off is that accepting credit cards is a privilege...it allows you access to more customers. But a lot of companies try to pass along the cost...they want the additional market without paying for it. As a small business owner myself, I would never think of adding a surcharge or going the cash discount way. And I process about $7-10k a month.

They give discount for cash payment. That's how they circumvent the law.

Contact the State Attorney General.

Nope. What is happening is that the retailers are allowed to charge the surcharge fee if consumer uses credit card. You "save" money by paying with cash because there is no surcharge fee. It is stupid but this is just how it is.

What I was saying is retailer cover those credit fee before by raising the retail price of the products? So everyone (including cash/debit card customers) are paying for it already. If they add surcharge fee without lowering the retail price starting 1/27, all those surcharge fees I assume will be just extra profit for retailer?

So seems like the only benefit of this is CASH/debit card customer "likely" pay lower price assuming retailer lower their retail/sale price? Or retailers are just going to make extra profit....

We will charge you
 

A new rule going into effect Sunday could cost you more when shopping with a credit card at some stores.

Visa and Mastercard have agreed to let merchants add a service charge equal to the cost of processing a credit transaction to the bottom line. The cost of processing is usually 1.5 to 3 perc cent, and merchants are capped at a 4 per cent fee under the agreement.

more [dailymail.co.uk]

Discover affected?

People feel that if SD'ers TD their post then they are scarred for life.

Great. I use CC for almost everything I buy. Even thru PayPal, I switch it from my checking account to use my VISA card. I do this because it's FAST and efficient. If I have to go into the gas station, get in line, wait on everyone to figure out what they're doing, and finally pay them, that totally sucks. In fact, if a gas station doesn't accept a cc, then I drive to the next station. Plus, not going into a station prevents me from having to smell like an ash tray for the next few hours. I can use cash - but that's going to be very slow for everyone. I'm retiring in 2 years, so I'll be that pokey ol' fart in front of you that is paying with his nickles and dimes and pennies. I hope I'm in line in front of whomever passes this moronic crap, and I hope he's late for his next meeting because of it. Maybe that will prevent him from making another ignorant decision. :)

Well, I guess I won't have to worry about that.

This is not a tax. Governments impose taxes. Visa is not the government.

Check out the typical CA BS:

Ahahaha.... you can't impose a CC surcharge, but you can offer a discount for CASH.
The government does take the people there for compete idiots!

... yet the city of San Francisco charges me a flat 2.50 for paying with credit card for parking tickets...fark this city how do they get away with that. ..

Report them to police and attorney general.

That's not income. That's considered a rebate.

where is the hot deal?

Hmm.... it's SF, what else do you expect?

You're exactly the sucker that CA government likes!
Read the actual code in its entirety.

Well that sucks...

:lmao: ... any card that does this can kiss their customers goodbye.

Did you know that your sentence is incorrect and you should feel bad?

imposing a credit card fee will loose slickness for a lot of deals.

"States Where No Surcharge Laws Protect Consumers
Surcharging isn’t allowed everywhere. Currently, there are laws limiting surcharging in: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. Consumers who are subjected to a surcharge or checkout fees in states where they may be prohibited from surcharging may want to report the retailer to their state attorney general’s office."

did you file your spending after or before those rebates?

Who cares? I'll keep using my AMEX and let AMEX continue to destroy merchants in fees and I'll reap the rewards with points!

nys hits you with a convenience fee when u pay your property tax or vehicle registration with credit card. so much for being illegal with credit card surcharges.

It is the merchants, not the credit card issuer, who would impose a surcharge for using your credit card.

Thanks for sharing this info

I'm not required to file my spending with anybody.

Yet Visa who had their back against the wall and permitted merchants to impose this....

so if I enter a restuarant or a store that offers a minimum of $25 purchase with credit card or you receive a surcharge fee, can i sue them?

basically they are gonna fee u for not spending over $25 purchase with ur card, and if u do, no fee!

WHAT????? That means when I eat at the Vegas buffets, it will cost even more...unless I pay cash or charge it to my amer exp card?

actually find something good in California

Thanks Obama!

/got tired of all the ignorant posts in this thread, had to add my own

Really?? Read the entire code before you pop the cork and celebrate. :lmao:

Right-wingers will make up stuff and twist facts just to get riled up about the "bad old guv'ment." It's their favorite pastime. :lol:

Sweet, only two states I spend money in are banned from surcharges. =D

redit card surcharges are banned by law in 10 states: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas.

Visa and MasterCard have rules that require retailers to handle credit cards the same way in all of their stores across the country. That means a chain with stores in any of the 10 states where a surcharge is banned would not be able to have a surcharge at any of its stores.:D

The hot deal is when SD effect overturns this BS.

This sounds like the opposite of a hot deal. Not really sure why all the thumbs up.

Only if the buffets choose to impose a credit card surcharge. Merchants are not required to add a surcharge.

What the heck kind of deal is this?????

I was about to go over the whole information however I live in CA atleast CA is useful for something thank god.

In the big scheme of things this is a good thing because it makes the process of purchasing more transparent.
Right now, the surcharge is simply baked into the price. You're still paying it.
Now the merchants will break out the transaction fee from the purchase price.

The only thing that will change is that people buying with cash will no longer subsidize CC purchases. In this case, it really depends on what percentage of people will pay with cash/ debit.

Thumb up because OP made us aware.

aren't the buffet = merchant?

Read the CA code regarding surcharges...

MC will do same shit.

This isn't the forum for this. This is the hot deals forum.

Our daycare center had a note up about this earlier in the week. She will be charging the full 4% for anybody who uses their credit card. I was pissed. My rewards pts are earn mostly from them, now what??? She doesn't take American Express.. First thing I did was come here and their is a post in the Finance section but it's buried and pretty old. I'm pisssed!

yeah, LOL.
It is always sunny in California.

i will be switching to cash/debit/amex/discover. All my visa/mc cc are going into closet.

Yeah, maybe admin should move this thread to deal talk...

People need to think about overall impact of this change.

Like someone mentioned, "Right now, the surcharge is simply baked into the price. You're still paying it."
Visa/MC is not charging extra fee that they are not already charging. It just means it is up to the retailer how they pass the fee to their customers. Before, they have to pass that on to their cash/debit card customers also.
So if they want, they can add the surcharge fee without reducing their product/services price so they can just make more profit.
Or they can reduce the price of their product/services and add the surcharge fee. It just mean if you pay with cash/debit card, with the lower price of product/services, cash/debit card customers may pay less. For those that pay with credit card, they pay a little bit more but only a little bit more ASSUMING they also reduce the price of their products/services.

It seems all credit cards including visa, master card, discover and americanexpress allow retailers to charge surcharge fee.

Hmm... you should... because, as usual, the CA non-surcharge code is a fraud.

NYC here. I have enough fees already, dont need any more!

Apparently, OP's plan is successful...a two-years old can totally see his intention...

Let's hope Amex and Discover wouldn't do this shit.

tell us Californians about this.:cool:

It is a direct effect of the government interference. Stupid people were getting taken by CC companies, but instead of letting them learn (or not) from their mistakes, the government punished CC companies who passed that punishment on to ALL consumers. We are going to see the exact same thing with mortgages now--the new requirements to get a mortgage are so much harder to meet now; many responsible would-be homeowners are now being locked out of that possibility because the government is protecting the stupid/ignorant from themselves.

gogogo amex

gimme a break..his post warns ppl and tells them how to save money, not?

So I suppose it would be OK for everyone to post gripes about some businesses practices here in the hot deals forum? I understand the op is trying to inform, but it is hardly a deal in any sense of the word.

I still think this should not belong to a hot deal.

Right now, the surcharge is simply baked into the price. You're still paying it.

I don't think Visa/MC is adding more fee they are not already charging. It is just they can't force retailer how to pass on the cost to their customer. So for people in CA, NY, pretty much the surcharge will still baked into the price.
Meaning if you pay with CASH or debit card, you also help pay the credit card fee like before.

What do you mean? Like the fee may still apply? I know some places that charge you a fee if you pay less than $5 (with CC) which in that case I pay cash instead of paying .50 in additional. People would pay more cash if stores offered a discount for paying cash reason I pay with CC now is for protection and the little cashback I can get since with cash you don't get any discounts (atleast nothing I havent seen yet).

So basically, the daycare decided to use this as an excuse to raise the fee by 4% on some customers. They were still paying the transaction free before this ruling anyway.

Amex/Discover just like Visa/MC, they also charge surcharge fee for using their credit card. I assume if retailer are allow to add surcharge for Visa/MC, they will add it for ALL credit card including Amex/Discover also. Why pass the surcharge only for Visa/MC and not all other credit that also have surcharge once they set it up in their checkout system?

This is why Aldis and Woodmans (grocery store here in Wisconsin) can have lower prices then everyone else. They don't take any credit cards (just debit). They aren't paying those fees. Now other places """could""" lower prices and add a surcharge, if you chose to pay with credit card...or get the item without a surcharge if you pay with cash/debit... I think i understand it!

What makes you think we are going to see lower prices? The retailer can keep prices the same and pocket the difference.

I live in NY so I am good..

If you read the CA code in the OP, it tells you that, although "surcharge" is prohibited, the merchant can offer a discount on the same item if payed by cash. This amount to the same thing, in real life, as a surcharge for using CC.

That's true, but he is going to compete with other retailers that are not doing that. If all retailers decide to do this, then it was going to happen anyway eventually... just for different reasons.

And yet, in Florida, if you pay your real estate taxes or some other government bills with VISA or MC, they add a "convenience fee". So apparently it's ok for the government to include a surcharge but not retail merchants. Maybe they get away with it b/c they use the lingo "convenience fee". Convenience fee my arse!

Except that you get cancer from that sun burn. :lol:

This is another example of how Liberty is lost, how simple things become complicated in order to confuse the consumer into paying more. Consumers gave up their rights when they decided that shopper/loyalty cards were a good thing, so now we have to have a card to get the same sales we used to get without one. They gave up their rights when soft drink prices went through the roof at restaurants. They gave up their rights when taxes were nicknamed "fees" and piled onto absolutely everything. The gave up their rights when free public parks began to charge high admission fees.

And all the while people just gobble it up. The most expensive parks are more crowded than ever, everyone orders soft drinks at restaurants, everyone has a keychain full of shopper cards, etc, etc.... Personally I don't do any of that stuff, but I'm one person holding back a tidal wave and it just doesn't work. The beauty of a democratic-capitalist society is that every action, every consumer choice, is a vote for or against something. Have fun in the new order that so many of you have created.

NY is on the banned list, so we don't have to pay any surcharges

Phew, California. Not like we have much going for our state here anyway though >_> (in terms of state government and spending and stuff lol)

Not sure what all the talk is about.. I read an article today that the big box retailers aren't going to add a fee.. that credit card fee is already added into the price of the item, even if you don't use a credit card.

I see now I get you I have never been offered a discount for paying cash I wouldn't mind paying cash (especially with high end items) to get a 2% or even 3% discount instead of paying with CC. But since CC offer charge back protection and that little incentive I just have stuck using the CC. The day CC really get nasty with fees I will probably drop them and go for prepaid cards or atms (although I don't like that they don't have much protection).

Visa/MC charge merchants 3-4% on each transaction. Merchants have to accept it, otherwise their sales, especially online sales, will suffer.
Now Visa/MC want to increase their profits by charging the customers.
I'd say: 'no way Jose".
Amex is not doing this shiiiyte I hope.

You don't have much going for you because the state is overrun with uneducated suckers. You just voted to raise your own taxes! You voted in a governor who, in his previous post, abdicated his duty to the state because he wanted to... :lol:
Now, if you still think you're getting a good deal here regarding CC surcharge, read the actual CA code and then tell us if you're still convinced.

Such a kind, thoughtful post.

I do regret we do not have neg rep option on SD.

Как на твоем языке говорят, соси хуй, выродок.

Then we will mostly use debit or check cards to make those greedy credit card companies bankrupt.

dont get confused. it's different when you loot at the receipt.

-----------------

it actually becomes a conspiracy.
All merchants jack up the price and include the surcharge in the price and then claim no surcharge.
Consumers will be slaughtered without doubt, and we will still happily accept that..... invisible surcharge

this is the worst slickdeal ever

Amex will not do this, as stated in the NBC article:
"But AMEX prohibits surcharge fees. So a merchant who accepts American Express as well as Visa/MasterCard would not be able to surcharge any of those cards."

i stay indoors in california so no sunburn

Or a debit card which is run as credit, such as an online purchase or any transaction where you don't enter a PIN number.

Truth hurts, I know. :lmao:

I've finally turned the tables on my credit card where they consistenly own me money and send me a check for using their card after all those college years of paying interest on a card I didn't need in college, or shouldn't have applied for. But hey, I got that free tshirt and pen :D

All credit card charge fee even for Amex.

https://merchant.americanexpress....es-pricing

The only change is credit card company cannot force retailer to charge fee ONLY for credit card customer but not customer that pay with cash/debit card. So right now, the surcharge is simply baked into the price. You're still paying it.

Think about it, if the store setup their checkout system to add surcharge for Visa/MC, they will likely do it for ALL credit card including Amex and Discover.

That's what I use AMEX for... plus people usually (usually) have more than 1 credit card type, yeah this sucks if all you have is a visa.

Yes, exactly. VISA phrased it to sound like it's a bad thing, because that's the slant they want. Don't be fools people. This is going to lead to lower prices because Big Card won't be able to ram it so hard up merchant's pay slots.

This IS a Slickdeal. A 5 thumbs up, front-page material, Slickdeal. It may not be obvious, but we EVERYONE will benefit from this.

If you are in favor of NOT giving money to big banks, then realize: this is a good thing.

All this is doing is correcting a long-standing problem by giving the power of choice back to retailers and, in doing so, raising public awareness about how you are actually giving money to the big banks every day without even realizing it.

Consider: it used to be that when everyone paid cash, if you gave a restaurant $100, they got $100.

The credit card companies came along, worked their way into the retail economy, and got us all so dependent upon them that they have long been in a position of being able to charge 3% on every transaction to the retailer. You pay a restaurant $100 with your VISA card, they have to give $3 of that to VISA and Chase (or whatever bank name is on your card).

Let's say over the course of a year that restaurant makes $1 million in sales. That's $30,000. That's enough to pay a person's yearly salary. Instead, that money goes to BIG BANKS.

Most people don't know that the restaurant has to pay this 3%, and the credit card companies have made their terms of use such that, if you want to accept VISA cards at your restaurant, it has been FORBIDDEN for you from pass on that 3% fee to your customers. Doing that would make the general public AWARE of the what is really going on: that when you buy something with your credit card you're actually giving a small percentage to VISA and Chase, and that you're paying (without knowing it) for the convenience of using your credit card.

So again, this is a good thing, as it will wake people up to what is really going on: that the BIG BANKS have been siphoning off a small percentage of almost every transaction that you make. That's huge money.

Don't want to give your money to the big banks? Don't want to pay an extra $20 for that new laptop just for the convenience of paying with a credit card? Great. Then pay with cash (ideally), or with your debit card (smaller fee for the retailers).

Yes, you can say that this may be bad news if you pay for everything with your cash back or rewards credit cards. But consider as well: if everyone wakes up to what has really been going on and starts using cash or debit cards instead of credit cards, credit card companies will be forced to lower their transaction fees if they still want to be relevant. Thus, the power of negotiation has just been put back into the hands of the retailers, and ultimately to us, the consumers (since the retailers don't survive without us).

But more importantly, and regardless of your political persuasion, I hope we can all agree that not giving money to the big banks (and thus not giving them more power) can only be a good thing.

To all those who say they're relieved for being exempt or that their state aren't allowing this, think again. This is a case of putting the frog into the pot and turning up the heat slowly. We're all going to get screwed by these greedy corporations.

And jealousy kills, sit in your Zhopa state, zhopa, enjoy you snow and humidity, LOL.

No HDMI?

I hope they do charge a credit card fee. This will make the credit card companies lower their rates, as they are ridiculous as it is, raising them nonstop on a whim. Maybe it's time to give businesses a break.

If CC surcharge is illegal in Texas, how come I see plentiful of Chevron gas stations advertise lower price (8 cents) if you pay with Chevron Giftcard (which can only bought with cash) and higher price if you pay by other method?

guess there's a good thing to living in NY.

Debit cards usually have a flat fee. It used to be up to 44 cents a few years back but with reform a few years ago, it went down to around 21 cents plus a bit more for fraud protection.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/money...niversary/

...this was primarily the reason we lost free checking accounts a few years ago from the big banks, and now most require a monthly fee, as swipe fees paid for the majority of the fees to maintain your account. At the end of the day, you're still paying the cost, it just becomes more transparent as to how you're paying it.

So banks stopped pushing checking accounts so much, and changed to pushing more credit, because it was more profitable. Around 2-3% of each transaction is the usual for credit cards versus a flat fee of around 21 cents regardless if the transaction was 10 cents or $1000.

As with the swipe fee thing, you'll always be paying this fee. You always have. You just have not been seeing it. Retailers incorporate it into cost of the product (at least they are supposed to).

Anyway long story short one of two things will happen:
a.) Retailers take the cost savings given to them and pass them on to the consumer (has everyone seen lower prices across the board since the debit card swipe fee reform? Hmm? Noo?)

or

b.) Like the swipe fee reform, they will find a new way to collect the revenue they are now going to be losing because of the "transparency".

New credit cards APRs have gone up exponentially since the CARD Act and the debit swipe fee reform. (Already the shift a few years ago from the mostly no annual fee credit card types to "premium" card types with annual fees, and the APRs you used to get with a normal CC without an annual fee.)

Is it nice to be able to see the fees? Yes.
Are the retailers going to reduce the prices that they raised by 3-4% now because of the fees of taking credit cards, that they incorporate into their product pricing in the first place?
I'll believe it when I see it.

I get the fact that these laws and changes are "supposed" to give more power back to the consumers, but they always find new avenues of collecting the fees.

Personally I'm doing the same thing I've always done. I don't shop at retailers that impose any fees on credit/debit transactions (worst case scenario I use cash if I must, but it leaves me not wanting to make larger purchases at the retailer in the future), but if they do start charging a separate fee like this, then I better see the correlation in lower prices from the business of around 2-3% from that, otherwise they are doing nothing but double-dipping.

I have always done a 3% cash discount at my store, which is basically the exact same as charging a 3% fee to those who pay with a credit card - it's just worded differently. :)

And FYI, charging surcharges for credit card processing has always been perfectly legal in most states, and I personally don't see anything wrong with a merchant wanting to recoup some of the fees that they are charged when a customer pays with a card. Little do most people know, most merchants pay anywhere from 2-3% + $.35 per transaction, and on a rewards card where you get points for spending they hit the merchant with another 1-3%. So some transactions could be as high as 6% or more, and if it's an international card tack on another 2%. I've had months where our store has done $50,000 in sales and then at the end of the month we get hit with a $2,000 bill for the credit card processing for the month. That's nearly double what we pay in rent!! I have always thought it's not very fair for merchants to pay the entire fee for what is really more of a convenience to the customer for them to be able to use a card rather than having to carry cash around.

The only thing that has really changed is that they have implemented new rules in regards to how much merchants can charge, and because of this "new rule" many merchants are taking advantage of the situation and implementing fees which they never had before.

I don't see a big concern with this as long as those 10 states keep the ban in place. The thing people tend to complain about is the big chains like Walmart, Target, Home Depot, etc, but as long as those chains can't charge the extra % then the smaller places won't be able to just to keep up. This will probably just come down to local restaurants and other very small chain or individual businesses to help them out. The bigger stores either won't be able to charge because of states they are in or won't because of losing business.

Are you mad? Paying with cash or debit cards? Carrying cash = so third word class solution. It's unsafe and asking for all kinda criminal activities (robbery)

Debit cards? Then who would protect me in the event of dispute with the merchants? Imagine having issues with your bought items and now the merchants will tell you "Scram! We've got your money and we just don't care. Whine all you want."

Employers cant limit the PTO carry over in California and that is cool.. who-whoo

Yes, Big Banks make money... You do forget that they are providing a service to the merchant and the customer. And let's not forget about our government. The service they provide still has value, it all depends on how you look at it.

Banks charge merchants for each transaction. The merchant never has to handle cash and all the risk of handling cash such as robberies and employees thieving. Also, the bank handles the transfer of funds into accounts electronically. This is quite a nice service. For the example of 1M revenue and paying 30k in CC fees, perhaps the service is worth it since the handling of 1M in revenue, if it was all cash, would require additional personnel or security.

Also, all cash businesses are widely known to not report all their revenue to the IRS, thus equating to less tax revenue for the govt. That then trickles down to those of us on payroll. This debate could go on and on so I'll stop here, but the one point I wanted to make is that we could sit here and hate on the Big Banks for taking a piece of the pie, but it would be very ignorant to think they are not providing some type of service/value for that fee.

just my 2 cents

Credit Cards are a service, that NOBODY has to use. People use it because its convenient. Imagine spending $100 at a restaurant, would you really want to carry $100 in cash?

I honestly think that even if every single credit card got rid of rewards for using them, people (including me) would continue to use a credit card for the convenience and simplicity of not carrying cash and coins.

Lets say that a restaurant only deals in cash and they make $1000 a night. They would have to deposit that cash on a daily basis and if this was a large establishment that made tens of thousands of dollars in cash, transportation of that cash can become a hassle. They would likely pay for armored transport and thats an additional cost to take into account.

There is competition in the sector that has started to drive down swipe fees. For example, Square charges 2.75% flat (https://squareup.com/pricing) per swipe.

No, I don't work for Visa, Mastercard, Square, or any financial company. My mentioning of their names is not meant as endorsement.

Edit: Also good post by the poster above this, guess we both typed this out around the same time.

Long live cash! And my debit card...

You're misunderstanding the situation. Visa/MC isn't going to start charging customers a fee, they are simply saying that merchants can charge customers up to a 4% surcharge to help cover their processing fees. So they aren't "double dipping" or anything like that, they are simply saying that merchants can basically pass on the processing fees to their customers.

blame the merchant, NOT visa or mstercard, (they are the messenger)

Cashback bonuses are not taxable income.

Thanks for posting, I have less than 45 minutes to buy everything that I possibly need to live off of for my entire life! :P

Yawn.... :sleepy:

Merchants have no rights to recover whatever fee associated with credit cards by shifting this cost to the consumers.

They (the merchants) need to understand that this cost is what they need to absorb as a "business cost" because consumers (at least the majority of them) don't desire to carry alternative payment methods such as cash (unsafe reason).

As a customer of any biz, I have the right to enforce onto that biz "Make me happy and feel satisfied. Otherwise, I'll go elsewhere."

Simple as that.

How are people liking this post? its like saying i love FEES!

Good points here :nod:

Presumably, credit cards make a purchase available to someone who otherwise wouldn't have the cash to lay out on it immediately. At its base level, that $100 purchase the restaurant is getting would never be made with cash because the customer doesn't have the $100 cash without extending a line of credit. The CC companies charging a 2% fee knocking that $100 down to $98 for the restaurant means the restaurant is getting $98 instead of $0, not $98 instead of $100. The 2% the restaurant pays is for access to that customer that otherwise would not have been able to afford their services.

Now, the tricky part comes in that people who otherwise have the cash to pay for something often use cards instead for various reasons (rewards, hold onto money longer, or just easier to consolidate everything). Nonetheless, these are all services provided to that customer by the bank, not the merchant (in this case, the restaurant). If a merchant wants access to a customer that prefers to manage their money that way then they need to pay up, and in the long run they're still going to come out on top with the access to customers who otherwise wouldn't have the upfront cash to pay for their service. That's not even to mention that CCs often lead to more spending because, let's be honest, it's a lot easier to walk in somewhere and spend a bunch of money when you're just signing a slip of paper and aren't seeing your wallet get considerably thinner. I'm much less likely to impulse buy a TV for $300 at Best Buy with cash because it's unlikely I'll have that much cash on me, and even if I do that feels like a lot of money to be plopping down on the counter all at once. I'm sure Best Buy is happy to give up that 2% on a purchase that otherwise wouldn't have been made at all.

I run a small business. I won't be passing the 2% on to my customers. Any small business that does is a joke. I'm happy to pay the 2% to open my business up to an entire additional line of customers that can spend easily. In the long run I make way more than the 2% I pay back off of credit cards, and any business passing that percentage on to the customer is double dipping and deserves whatever angst comes to them along with that.

Its saying thanks for the awareness. I personally didn't know or wasn't aware of this.