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roughnready 02-11-2013 10:46 AM

Why U.S. Internet and Wireless Access Is Slow and Expensive
 
The U.S. is falling behind the rest of the world when it comes to online access and wireless service. Our service is more expensive and slower than it is in many other countries. 80% of Americans have no choice when it comes to selecting a high speed internet provider because there is no competition in their market. Should internet and wireless service be treated as utilities, like electricity or water, so that access, cost, and speed become more reliable?

Quote:

Why US Internet Access Is Slow and Expensive

US citizens pay more for internet access than those in many other countries—and also get worse connections for their cash. This video explains why.

During the interview, she explains how the US government has allowed media organizations to put profit ahead of public interest—through price hikes, rigged rules and stifling competition. As she explains, "the rich are getting gouged, the poor are very often left out, and this means that we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality."

Full article and video interview link:
http://gizmodo.com/5983300/why-us...-expensive

LivninSC 02-11-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughnready (Post 57507000)
The U.S. is falling behind the rest of the world when it comes to online access and wireless service. Our service is more expensive and slower than it is in many other countries. 80% of Americans have no choice when it comes to selecting a high speed internet provider because there is no competition in their market. Should internet and wireless service be treated as utilities, like electricity or water, so that access, cost, and speed become more reliable?

I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds. Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Also, as someone who used to travel a lot for work I can say with certainty that our internet is far better than virtually everywhere I have ever traveled with the one exception I can think of being Japan.

As for wireless service we pay more because we like our phones to be subsidized. Feel free to use Boost, PagePlus, Virgin, etc. and buy your phone and pay a considerably lower bill. Lastly, it's easier for these other developing regions to put in a kickass fast system. Why? Because it's the first thing they are putting in. They don't have to recoup investment in older technologies. The only place I know of again that has great and fast wireless coverage that exceeds ours that has gone through the various 1G, 3G, 4G, etc. is Asia and they do pay a lot more for tech things than we do so it's not exactly a surprise...

And oh, obligatory "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those poor disenfranchised!!!!!" - this is my favorite part "we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." Hahahahaha, puhhhhhhhhhhhlease! What's next, "we're creating two Americas and deepening inequality through the homes of the rich having dual zone climate control while the poor only having one" :lol:

Lastly, I can chose from multiple internet carriers. I've got AT&T for DSL, TWC for Cable, Hughes for satellite, and then all the wireless providers should I want to do that. On the other hand I have only one option for electricity, gas, trash pickup, and water. Talk about outrage! Why don't I have more choices in my utilities!!!!!!!!!!!

Dr. J 02-11-2013 10:58 AM

don't forget about population density.....

bonkman 02-11-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507152)
I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds. Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Also, as someone who used to travel a lot for work I can say with certainty that our internet is far better than virtually everywhere I have ever traveled with the one exception I can think of being Japan.

As for wireless service we pay more because we like our phones to be subsidized. Feel free to use Boost, PagePlus, Virgin, etc. and buy your phone and pay a considerably lower bill. Lastly, it's easier for these other developing regions to put in a kickass fast system. Why? Because it's the first thing they are putting in. They don't have to recoup investment in older technologies. The only place I know of again that has great and fast wireless coverage that exceeds ours that has gone through the various 1G, 3G, 4G, etc. is Asia and they do pay a lot more for tech things than we do so it's not exactly a surprise...

And oh, obligatory "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those poor disenfranchised!!!!!" - this is my favorite part "we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." Hahahahaha, puhhhhhhhhhhhlease! What's next, "we're creating two Americas and deepening inequality through the homes of the rich having dual zone climate control while the poor only having one" :lol:

Lastly, I can chose from multiple internet carriers. I've got AT&T for DSL, TWC for Cable, Hughes for satellite, and then all the wireless providers should I want to do that. On the other hand I have only one option for electricity, gas, trash pickup, and water. Talk about outrage! Why don't I have more choices in my utilities!!!!!!!!!!!

You're lucky. Well, in that you have some choice. Not in terms of who you picked.

BTW -- if you pay $30 for 20/2, how much are you paying for cable?

LivninSC 02-11-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57507434)
I think he's talking about home internet, not cell phones....



Quote:

Originally Posted by roughnready (Post 57507000)
Should internet and wireless service

:scratchh:

bonkman 02-11-2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507478)



:scratchh:

edited my post about 5 seconds later. you're mighty fast.

My instinct always is "wireless = wifi."

LivninSC 02-11-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57507434)
You're lucky. Well, in that you have some choice. Not in terms of who you picked.

BTW -- if you pay $30 for 20/2, how much are you paying for cable?

I have DirecTV. Cable is WAY overpriced in my market. I don't pay much now because I'm within the first year of my contract. At the end of my 2nd year I'll switch and go to Dish and then after 2 years come back.

What does annoy me is that I can't pay for the channels I want and dispense with the 500+ other channels of complete BS. I would probably only get locals and maybe 5-10 other channels. I tried the whole Hulu thing but the Mrs. wasn't a fan so in the end we went back and got satellite.

roughnready 02-11-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J (Post 57507358)
don't forget about population density.....

That's a part of it. But just looking at denser markets, the fact that the big providers have divied them up when it comes to wired service -- Time Warner gets NYC, Comcast gets x, etc. -- really seems anti-competitive to me. I'm not sure it's like this in other countries.

bonkman 02-11-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507516)
I have DirecTV. Cable is WAY overpriced in my market. I don't pay much now because I'm within the first year of my contract. At the end of my 2nd year I'll switch and go to Dish and then after 2 years come back.

What does annoy me is that I can't pay for the channels I want and dispense with the 500+ other channels of complete BS. I would probably only get locals and maybe 5-10 other channels. I tried the whole Hulu thing but the Mrs. wasn't a fan so in the end we went back and got satellite.

So I'll guess you're paying $35/mo for this year and $55/mo next year, bare minimum? Which means that you're going to be spending on average $75/month for 20/2 internet + TV.

Which is a pretty good price, IMHO. Which I think is the point of this article in the first place, as that's quite a lot of money. You're actually getting quite a good deal on internet. I'm guessing you have at least TWC as a provider option in your area. Where I live, you either have Comcast or Fios if you want HSI, but Fios just came in a couple years ago. Before that (and still in many areas of MA), Comcast is the only HSI provider. My inlaws, for example, pay upwards of $130 for extended basic,15/5, and VOIP.

Even with some competition finally opening up in my neighborhood, unless there was a "deal" (like Fios 79.99 triple play), it was impossible to get TV + HSI for under $90/month, regardless of combination of providers. Mostly because Comcast or Fios both charge only $20 more for TV once you have HSI. Hence you getting a good deal with your DSL.

LivninSC 02-11-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57507488)
edited my post about 5 seconds later. you're mighty fast.

It's that darn pop-up, it just well, it just pops up :D

I'm sure that some people do have fewer choices. I looked at a home in rural Southern Orange County, CA. I had no idea such a place even existed out here. Until a few years ago the community, of say 100 homes, got their power from a community diesel generator. They pump their own water, get their gas from propane (which a lot of people do actually down here), etc.. Kind of sounds like a cult or something but it's totally not. Just about 100 homes up in the hills 15 minutes off the local highway with nothing around it except for national park land. Cell service didn't work up there at the time but land line access did. No cable, DSL, usual internet but you wouldn't ever see me grandstanding and making me out to be some poor family because we didn't have fiber to our front door. We looked in to satellite internet as I work from home off hours a lot and while expensive did solve the problem. In the end we didn't move up there. My point is that people who chose to live in the boonies do so by making a conscious decision. There are pros and cons of each, one of which happens to be less supply and more expensive access possibly. It's not a right to have a mall, Costco, gym, and 10+ restaurants within a 2 mile radius of your home, just as it's not a right to have 10 telco carriers to chose from...

I have a family member who literally lives at the end of the road in this tiny ass Oregon town. It's a big valley and the road literally dead ends in to the mountain where they live. If you want "high speed" it's satellite, although it snows a lot, so my family actually uses dial up. Talk about old school, but that's to be expected when you live in a town that measures it's population in the 100s during the summer and probably less than 100 in the winter.

bonkman 02-11-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughnready (Post 57507552)
That's a part of it. But just looking at denser markets, the fact that the big providers have divied them up when it comes to wired service -- Time Warner gets NYC, Comcast gets x, etc. -- really seems anti-competitive to me. I'm not sure it's like this in other countries.

It's hugely anti-competitive. This was done way back in the day and many stories have been written up about it. It was kinda interesting, actually. When the govt was auctioning off the contracts, the companies would place bizarre bids -- 713,216, for example. Eventually, people realized the bids were a code for what area codes the companies wanted. So the companies played a big game of "stay out of my yard, I'll stay out of yours." And hence, telecom monopolies in many areas of the US.

And hence, high price and horrid CS. There's a reason that over 50% of the annual "most hated companies" lists in the US are usually telecom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507802)
It's that darn pop-up, it just well, it just pops up :D

I'm sure that some people do have fewer choices. I looked at a home in rural Southern Orange County, CA. I had no idea such a place even existed out here. Until a few years ago the community, of say 100 homes, got their power from a community diesel generator. They pump their own water, get their gas from propane (which a lot of people do actually down here), etc.. Kind of sounds like a cult or something but it's totally not. Just about 100 homes up in the hills 15 minutes off the local highway with nothing around it except for national park land. Cell service didn't work up there at the time but land line access did. No cable, DSL, usual internet but you wouldn't ever see me grandstanding and making me out to be some poor family because we didn't have fiber to our front door. We looked in to satellite internet as I work from home off hours a lot and while expensive did solve the problem. In the end we didn't move up there. My point is that people who chose to live in the boonies do so by making a conscious decision. There are pros and cons of each, one of which happens to be less supply and more expensive access possibly. It's not a right to have a mall, Costco, gym, and 10+ restaurants within a 2 mile radius of your home, just as it's not a right to have 10 telco carriers to chose from...

I have a family member who literally lives at the end of the road in this tiny ass Oregon town. It's a big valley and the road literally dead ends in to the mountain where they live. If you want "high speed" it's satellite, although it snows a lot, so my family actually uses dial up. Talk about old school, but that's to be expected when you live in a town that measures it's population in the 100s during the summer and probably less than 100 in the winter.

I'd agree with you if it were just "the boonies" circumstances. Where I live and have lived in MA are some of the more populous towns.

And we have little to no choice in providers.

mmathis 02-11-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507516)
I have DirecTV. Cable is WAY overpriced in my market. I don't pay much now because I'm within the first year of my contract. At the end of my 2nd year I'll switch and go to Dish and then after 2 years come back.

What does annoy me is that I can't pay for the channels I want and dispense with the 500+ other channels of complete BS. I would probably only get locals and maybe 5-10 other channels. I tried the whole Hulu thing but the Mrs. wasn't a fan so in the end we went back and got satellite.

You have cheap internet because you work the system, always getting promotional rates. How many people don't switch after their 2nd year, and pay regular price (of $75, $100, or more per month)?

124nic8 02-11-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507152)
I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds. Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Maybe cause you're wrong. Guess you missed the 60 Minutes piece on this.

British Internet rates [e4s.co.uk]

You have Cox or Comcast which is more reasonable. I pay TWC $20/mo for 3Mbps dl, and that's an intro rate only good for a year. Still better than the crap ATT DSL, which is my only alternative thanks to Congress being in the pocket of the larger Telecoms.

My friend has 20Mb Comcast plan in FL for $20/mo, so you are overpaying.

kharvel 02-11-2013 12:04 PM

Where are you getting $30/month for 20MB download and 2 MB upload WITHOUT any required add-on packages?

Here, the cheapest is $35/month for 2MB down and less than 1MB up WITHOUT any required add-on packages.

Wait a minute. . . . your situation doesn't apply to me because you're in a different location. I DEMAND government regulation to lower my rates to your level!!! Why should YOU have lower rates when I'm getting higher rates without any government regulation???

LivninSC 02-11-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmathis (Post 57508014)
You have cheap internet because you work the system, always getting promotional rates. How many people don't switch after their 2nd year, and pay regular price (of $75, $100, or more per month)?

Uhm, actually I have cheap internet because it was the going rate... Not to mention they'll always give you the promotional rate, there is just no promotional rate on my plan speed and I didn't want to screw around with the whole calling up to cancel in a year and blah blah to try and keep the lower rate. I will say that it's actually $33 now because out of the blue they started charging me for "modem rental" even though it's been free for well over a year.

I don't know you guys in the TP saw this but TWC raised their speeds across the board. As a result I downgraded my plan and still have what I would categorize as great speed. Not to mention my older modem couldn't take full advantage of the speed anyways.

Seriously, who is paying $100 for regular internet? If you want 100/20 that's your decision but it's a conscious one you will pay for. I would strongly suggest that 3MB is enough for darn near most every household for regular run of the mill internet. If you have a bunch of people using Hulu/Netflix than yes a bigger pipe is wanted but is that what this article is about? There is an upper class and lower class of Americans because some can stream movies/TV in to multiple rooms while others can't? :lol: If anything it's about equal access to information and for that, for kids to be educated, etc. you don't need 100/20. Atleast not at this point...

Now that said, I definitely work the TV providers as that's where the real savings come in at. Last time we switched my wife was on the account and they wanted us to pay $300 for a HD-DVR AND an additional $100 for another HD box and that's on top of the monthly fee. She threatened to cancel, they said fine, we did, and I signed up 3 weeks later and got all new equipment along with all the bill credits.

Lilian 02-11-2013 12:11 PM

I don't think we're screwed too badly. 20mb internet can be had for $20 month. It's not the 100mb for $10 over in South Korea, but for what our population density is, I don't think it's too bad.

124nic8 02-11-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilian (Post 57509166)
I don't think we're screwed too badly. 20mb internet can be had for $20 month. It's not the 100mb for $10 over in South Korea, but for what our population density is, I don't think it's too bad.

You can get that rate in some locales; it's certainly not the norm.

Danman114 02-11-2013 12:35 PM

This lady's voice is annoying. It's like she's permanently whining.

I love how she diminishes what Google is doing with it's Fiber by saying, "Well, the people that own cable networks are reluctant to sell them sports channels."

As if that has anything to do with FREE internet service for 7 years (guaranteed) after paying a single $300 fee for 5mbs down, 1 mbs up.

Free internet!

In reality, if you want to know the problems with the lack of competition you need to look at your politicians. She complains about the free market not providing high speed internet, then she goes on for 25 minutes about various stupid laws all over the place.

bonkman 02-11-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilian (Post 57509166)
I don't think we're screwed too badly. 20mb internet can be had for $20 month. It's not the 100mb for $10 over in South Korea, but for what our population density is, I don't think it's too bad.

I wish.

In my area, not without adding a $70 cable package.

LivninSC 02-11-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danman114 (Post 57509820)
I love how she diminishes what Google is doing with it's Fiber by saying, "Well, the people that own cable networks are reluctant to sell them sports channels."

Is this what you're referring to?

http://www.google.com/tisp/

I kid, I kid... (note if you don't know what it is click in to the links to get a better idea :D )

riznick 02-11-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507152)
I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds. Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Also, as someone who used to travel a lot for work I can say with certainty that our internet is far better than virtually everywhere I have ever traveled with the one exception I can think of being Japan.

As for wireless service we pay more because we like our phones to be subsidized. Feel free to use Boost, PagePlus, Virgin, etc. and buy your phone and pay a considerably lower bill. Lastly, it's easier for these other developing regions to put in a kickass fast system. Why? Because it's the first thing they are putting in. They don't have to recoup investment in older technologies. The only place I know of again that has great and fast wireless coverage that exceeds ours that has gone through the various 1G, 3G, 4G, etc. is Asia and they do pay a lot more for tech things than we do so it's not exactly a surprise...

And oh, obligatory "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those poor disenfranchised!!!!!" - this is my favorite part "we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." Hahahahaha, puhhhhhhhhhhhlease! What's next, "we're creating two Americas and deepening inequality through the homes of the rich having dual zone climate control while the poor only having one" :lol:

Lastly, I can chose from multiple internet carriers. I've got AT&T for DSL, TWC for Cable, Hughes for satellite, and then all the wireless providers should I want to do that. On the other hand I have only one option for electricity, gas, trash pickup, and water. Talk about outrage! Why don't I have more choices in my utilities!!!!!!!!!!!

In the Irvine CA area:
Time Warner Cable for business is $130/mo for 7mbps (faster speeds get MUCH more expensive)
AT&T Uverse for business is $80/mo for 6mbps (fastest dsl available for business here)
AT&T Uverse for residents is $57/mo for 18mbps

kharvel 02-11-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riznick (Post 57510274)
AT&T Uverse for residents is $57/mo for 18mbps

Is that the "naked" rate without any required add-on services?

riznick 02-11-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kharvel (Post 57510438)
Is that the "naked" rate without any required add-on services?

I have TV and internet, not phone. I don't believe that is a bundled price, but it might be.

LivninSC 02-11-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riznick (Post 57510274)
In the Irvine CA area:
Time Warner Cable for business is $130/mo for 7mbps (faster speeds get MUCH more expensive)
AT&T Uverse for business is $80/mo for 6mbps (fastest dsl available for business here)
AT&T Uverse for residents is $57/mo for 18mbps

Well then get the 3MB for $40 or TWC for better speeds. I mean, my gosh, do you pay full price for everything when you have to just do a little bit of looking around to save $$?

And yes, businesses pay more. Don't ask me why, well probably because they likely have higher utilization rates, but unless you subscribe to that whole corporations are people thing and that somehow fits in to this upper vs. lower class of Americans this chick is blabbering on about I don't see how that factors in.

travathian 02-11-2013 01:27 PM

Things won't change in America until we completely socialize data access or we completely split the physical connection from the data connection. ie one company in a region, that is ridiculously regulated, but given the necessary right of way, rolls out fiber to everyone providing just a physical connection. Then other other companies (ie, NOT the line provider) can compete to put a signal on that fiber. The physical line is a single provider, highly regulated, while the data on the line is a true free market to offer voice, video, internet, etc.

The reason there is no competition is that right of way is an expensive, time consuming and much contested factor no one considers. A new data provider that wants to start up has virtually insurmountable costs associated with right of way access.

The fact that Comcast is both a cable/internet provider and a media company should scare the shit out of everyone.

Deusxmachina 02-11-2013 01:48 PM

Doesn't matter what someone is paying for cable TV if the subject is internet unless it gets them a package deal rate on the internet.

Providers do at least have some competition from other providers leasing their cable lines. Time-Warner and Earthlink, for instance. Same stuff; different deals.

I'm surprised to hear 3Mbps for $40 via Time-Warner since other areas get 10Mbps for around $45 and other areas get 10 for under $30.

My friend has Comcast for $25 give or take 5, and that's either 18 or 20Mbps. But he's shook his fist at the heavens a few times when they've cut him off upon reaching the monthly cap of I think 250gb. I guess he's gone over it multiple other times though and nothing's happened.

Australia and Canada get hosed on internet. They're way worse off than the U.S. is.

politicaljunkie 02-11-2013 02:36 PM

iWant Google Fiber. kthxbye.

Danman114 02-11-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57512028)
I am so sick and tired of all the politicians trying to make it out like there is this underclass of society because they can't allegedly get access to this new need we all have when in actuality they are full of shit. Like I said, what's next, saying we all need dual zone climate control? I mean, how did we ever do without it :confused:

You sit on your thrown, you eat your fresh fruits and delicious bacon, completely unaware there is a whole class of people who don't own a blu ray player, and some who don't even the necessities like a DVR.



True story, I once was a member at a gym that had tube televisions that people had to watch while on the tred mill. 27" tube (not flatscreen mind you) televisions.

Where is my pity parade? Place probably didn't even have wi-fi.

Dude111 02-11-2013 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughnready
The U.S. is falling behind the rest of the world when it comes to online access and wireless service. Our service is more expensive and slower than it is in many other countries.

Yes and its due to GREED.... The US is the greediest country in the world.. They know no one would ever pay the amount they wanted to charge here for MEGA speeds so they dont even bother giving it.....

TheCoffeePrince 02-13-2013 07:34 AM

The telecom market has a very high cost of entry. Laying down new lines would be too expensive for any persons to do it alone. Google did a great thing by entering this market but I don't think they will have enough money to lay down fibers for every single city in the US. A more affordable option would be to do WiFi internet and charge subscribers.

j90275 02-13-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57507434)
You're lucky. Well, in that you have some choice. Not in terms of who you picked.

BTW -- if you pay $30 for 20/2, how much are you paying for cable?

exactly. This guy probably talking about his deeply discounted retention deal.
show us in california where you can get this 20/2 for $30 without any bundle or trick! no way.
even at&t u-verse has cap for 150G to 250G (based on 2012 TOS) now if you read it carefully. and that sucky VDSL doesn't even cover the whole westminster area in OC where only has 3mbps service in my community.

US internet is ultra expensive, capped and slow. thtat's the change we got for the past few years.

if you have some time, read how other similar/higher paid standard country such as Hong Kong, Japane, S. Korea Etc where has 500/500 to 1000/1000 for about $15 ($165HKD) to $40 range. And this guy is bragging about at&t [gigaom.com], TWC or Verizon FIOS? Verizon even says their customers don't want 1G connection, yet. [verizon.com] boostmobile (those 3rd tier mobile solutions) throttled speed after 2.5G?

brbubba 02-13-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughnready (Post 57507552)
That's a part of it. But just looking at denser markets, the fact that the big providers have divied them up when it comes to wired service -- Time Warner gets NYC, Comcast gets x, etc. -- really seems anti-competitive to me. I'm not sure it's like this in other countries.

My favorite was when Time Warner tried to implement data caps on home broadband, effectively doubling their prices. They would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for everyone that screamed bloody murder. I could typically care less about ISP pricing, but when you have a monopoly you don't get to pull that crap.

I think much of the problem stems from the gov backpedaling on third party ISP access to existing infrastructure over a decade ago. Before they revoked that there were plenty of options for providers in the DSL field, so we could actually pretend that there was some shred of competition. It would have also prevented BS moves like data caps, which make absolutely no sense since the cost of bandwidth keeps decreasing over time.

Kolto 02-13-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j90275 (Post 57553346)
exactly. This guy probably talking about his deeply discounted retention deal.
show us in california where you can get this 20/2 for $30 without any bundle or trick! no way.
even at&t u-verse has cap for 150G to 250G (based on 2012 TOS) now if you read it carefully. and that sucky VDSL doesn't even cover the whole westminster area in OC where only has 3mbps service in my community.

US internet is ultra expensive, capped and slow. thtat's the change we got for the past few years.

if you have some time, read how other similar/higher paid standard country such as Hong Kong, Japane, S. Korea Etc where has 500/500 to 1000/1000 for about $15 ($165HKD) to $40 range. And this guy is bragging about at&t [gigaom.com], TWC or Verizon FIOS? Verizon even says their customers don't want 1G connection, yet. [verizon.com] boostmobile (those 3rd tier mobile solutions) throttled speed after 2.5G?

btw of those countries you just listed in asia, they are all smaller than the state of Texas basically.

Also I know for a fact not all of Japan's wired for super high speed internet.

LivninSC 02-13-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j90275 (Post 57553346)
exactly. This guy probably talking about his deeply discounted retention deal.
show us in california where you can get this 20/2 for $30 without any bundle or trick! no way.
even at&t u-verse has cap for 150G to 250G (based on 2012 TOS) now if you read it carefully. and that sucky VDSL doesn't even cover the whole westminster area in OC where only has 3mbps service in my community.

US internet is ultra expensive, capped and slow. thtat's the change we got for the past few years.

if you have some time, read how other similar/higher paid standard country such as Hong Kong, Japane, S. Korea Etc where has 500/500 to 1000/1000 for about $15 ($165HKD) to $40 range. And this guy is bragging about at&t [gigaom.com], TWC or Verizon FIOS? Verizon even says their customers don't want 1G connection, yet. [verizon.com] boostmobile (those 3rd tier mobile solutions) throttled speed after 2.5G?

Nope, standard pricing. I have Basic yet all my speeds say 20/2 since they quietly bumped up all their speeds and the 2MB/sec I can download back it up. Who the hell really needs 500/500!?!?!? I mean, what........ Can your HD actually even write that fast or your cable modem even handle it?

I'm not bragging about shit. I'm saying the claim that there is this underclass of society because they don't have insanely fast broadband is a friggin joke. Sure you can bring up places that are better than us, but at the same time I can bring up several other similar countries that pay A LOT more than we do and get crappier service.

Lastly if you feel it's "ultra expensive' and slow why don't you go out and create a broadband company and deliver 500/500 for $15 a month. Hell, I'd sign up for it.

j90275 02-13-2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57555014)
Nope, standard pricing. I have Basic yet all my speeds say 20/2 since they quietly bumped up all their speeds and the 2MB/sec I can download back it up. Who the hell really needs 500/500!?!?!? I mean, what........ Can your HD actually even write that fast or your cable modem even handle it?

I'm not bragging about shit. I'm saying the claim that there is this underclass of society because they don't have insanely fast broadband is a friggin joke. Sure you can bring up places that are better than us, but at the same time I can bring up several other similar countries that pay A LOT more than we do and get crappier service.

Lastly if you feel it's "ultra expensive' and slow why don't you go out and create a broadband company and deliver 500/500 for $15 a month. Hell, I'd sign up for it.

Who wants it? (use google translate!)
See those links that people are grouply ordering together for 500/500 in Hong Kong.
http://computer.uwants.com/viewth...d=14430906
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdeta...51230&p=23 (People in Taiwan complains about there is no 500 but only 100/100 there, they want the same deal in hong kong)

You can get more links by google it. Even Yahoo Japan sales/resales FTTH service with cheap price.

Show us the link where can we sign up in Los Angeles area with your 20/1 for $30 TWC. That's very good. I want it if this is standard pricing without bundle things.

The reason you got so many replies from people because what you stated is not close to reality. The title says US internet is slow and expensive. That's why "sure" I brought places where is cheaper!!! :woot:

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j90275 (Post 57555832)
Who wants it? (use google translate!)
See those links that people are grouply ordering together for 500/500 in Hong Kong.
http://computer.uwants.com/viewth...d=14430906
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdeta...51230&p=23 (People in Taiwan complains about there is no 500 but only 100/100 there, they want the same deal in hong kong)

You can get more links by google it. Even Yahoo Japan sales/resales FTTH service with cheap price.

Show us the link where can we sign up in Los Angeles area with your 20/1 for $20 TWC. That's very good. I want it.

The reason you got so many replies from people because what you stated is not close to reality. The title says US internet is slow and expensive. That's what "sure" I brought places where is cheaper!!! :woot:

So you bring up how people overseas want it and that immediately translates to the US market wanting it? Are you saying that these people overseas buy a plan and then resell it to others? You do know that's now allowed per the T&Cs here right? Why not just advocate stealing TV. I mean hell, all you need is a dish, some boxes, and some cards and you can get really cheap TV as there are people out there who "grouply order" DirecTV. That's not what we're talking about though now is it! You're the one who said that the US market doesn't even want it in that link you provided. Are you schizophrencic?

And sure, there are faster and possibly cheaper markets out there. So F'ing what? There are also more expensive and slower markets out there in the first world. Oohh, where's the outrage!!!!!! I mean, if I can get gas in Venezuela for 18 cents a gallon WHY must I pay $4/gallon here. OMG, the outrage. We are creating yet another America. An America where the underclass can't afford to buy a Winnebago and drive it as their primary vehicle because gas is $4/gallon. If Venezuela can do it for 18 cents so can we :thumbup:

Last I checked, I'm living in reality. I see my bill, I see my prices, I see my speedtest.net results, what's unreal about that? :dontknow:

Since you're a fan of Google use it. Like I said, I have Basic but because they quietly increased their speeds everything is faster than stated. I did drop from 30/3 to 20/2 when I downgraded but so what.

bonkman 02-13-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57555014)
Nope, standard pricing. I have Basic yet all my speeds say 20/2 since they quietly bumped up all their speeds and the 2MB/sec I can download back it up. Who the hell really needs 500/500!?!?!? I mean, what........ Can your HD actually even write that fast or your cable modem even handle it?

Uh, USB2 max signal rate is 480 Mbps. USB2 is considered one of the slower forms of connecting nowadays.

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57556200)
Uh, USB2 max signal rate is 480 Mbps. USB2 is considered one of the slower forms of connecting nowadays.

So Docsis 3.0 modems can handle a 1000 or 500Mbps upload?

j90275 02-13-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57556146)
So you bring up how people overseas want it and that immediately translates to the US market wanting it? Are you saying that these people overseas buy a plan and then resell it to others? You do know that's now allowed per the T&Cs here right? Why not just advocate stealing TV. I mean hell, all you need is a dish, some boxes, and some cards and you can get really cheap TV as there are people out there who "grouply order" DirecTV. That's not what we're talking about though now is it! You're the one who said that the US market doesn't even want it in that link you provided. Are you schizophrencic?

And sure, there are faster and possibly cheaper markets out there. So F'ing what? There are also more expensive and slower markets out there in the first world. Oohh, where's the outrage!!!!!! I mean, if I can get gas in Venezuela for 18 cents a gallon WHY must I pay $4/gallon here. OMG, the outrage. We are creating yet another America. An America where the underclass can't afford to buy a Winnebago and drive it as their primary vehicle because gas is $4/gallon. If Venezuela can do it for 18 cents so can we :thumbup:

Last I checked, I'm living in reality. I see my bill, I see my prices, I see my speedtest.net results, what's unreal about that? :dontknow:

Since you're a fan of Google use it. Like I said, I have Basic but because they quietly increased their speeds everything is faster than stated. I did drop from 30/3 to 20/2 when I downgraded but so what.

Just answer that.
The same thread has people asked for google fiber which is 1G speed. I guess we want it, no to mention there is a petition for google fiber please come to LA market going on. Even there is a facebook group to it.
Nothing says about HD or what to use of the speed. People want cheaper rate with speed.
So that means US internet is slow and expensive, as of today, US, a country in the world. That saids US compared to other countries, title of this thread.
reports from a US backbone/content distribution company Akamai:
http://www.akamai.com/dl/akamai/q...raphic.pdf US mobile, slow.
http://www.akamai.com/dl/whitepap...=soti_Q312 US broadband, slow, average, 10.9mbps, slower than Columbia.

bonkman 02-13-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57556402)
So Docsis 3.0 modems can handle a 1000 or 500Mbps upload?

Yeah. There's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0 speed. It handles stuff in parallel.

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j90275 (Post 57556432)
Just answer that.
The same thread has people asked for google fiber which is 1G speed. I guess we want it, no to mention there is a petition for google fiber please come to LA market petition going on. Even there is a facebook group to it.

So that means US internet is slow and expensive, as of today, US, a country in the world.

No it doesn't. That's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is slow because it can only go ~ 270mph while a F-35 can go mach 1.6. Or if you don't like that it's like saying a Honda Accord is slow because it can only go 130 while the Veyron can go 240.

Both are more than enough...

I'm not sure why you guys feel that you're entitled to 1Gbps for $15/mo but if you think you can deliver it than stop wasting your time here and go out and do it. It's time to put up or shut up but don't think for one minute I will support any initiative to take my tax $ just do you can all download porn faster :D

highfloydelity 02-13-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travathian (Post 57511084)
The reason there is no competition is that right of way is an expensive, time consuming and much contested factor no one considers. A new data provider that wants to start up has virtually insurmountable costs associated with right of way access.

Indeed. There's no way for someone to startup as a new provider. Good luck getting enough funding and the local monopoly will likely tie you up with so much red tape that you'd probably run out of what little investment you had before you even sign up your first customer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by travathian (Post 57511084)
The fact that Comcast is both a cable/internet provider and a media company should scare the shit out of everyone.

Yep, quite scary, especially now that Comcast is buying the other 49% of NBCUniversal. http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes...7-billion/

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57556522)
Yeah. There's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0 speed. It handles stuff in parallel.

Based on what I know there are no Docsis 3.0 modems out there that support 1Gbps upload and actually do it... I may be wrong but you're going to need to show it to me.

bonkman 02-13-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57556736)
Based on what I know there are no Docsis 3.0 modems out there that support 1Gbps upload and actually do it... I may be wrong but you're going to need to show it to me.

There are no 5g phones out yet, either.

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57556844)
There are no 5g phones out yet, either.

So what you're saying is that today the Docsis modems out there don't support 1Gbps?

Because that seems to go against your previous statement of " There's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0 speed."

bonkman 02-13-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57556870)
So what you're saying is that today the Docsis modems out there don't support 1Gbps?

Because that seems to go against your previous statement of " There's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0 speed."

I have no idea. I'm not in the market for a new modem so I'm not sure. However, I do know there's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0. DOC3 handles the data in discrete channels and must support >=4 channels, each with a thoroughput above 40Mbps IIRC. There's no max number of channels and thus there's no upward bound on speed. Different hardware will support different numbers of channels, I am sure.

LivninSC 02-13-2013 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57557110)
I have no idea. I'm not in the market for a new modem so I'm not sure. However, I do know there's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0. DOC3 handles the data in discrete channels and must support >=4 channels, each with a thoroughput above 40Mbps IIRC. There's no max number of channels and thus there's no upward bound on speed. Different hardware will support different numbers of channels, I am sure.

So ya, there is no hardware to support it.

But I want it! I don't care if it'll only give me 15Mbps upload I want the 1,000 and if I don't get it I'm going to rant, rave, and sign a petition demanding something that I can't actually take advantage of. Ohhhhhh, how can the poor do without their 1,000Mbps internet!

Good summary of the posts in this thread?

All this entire article is, is some wanna be FCC head trying to tug on the heart strings of the uninformed American public by making it seem like class warfare is going on because, let me quote, "the rich are getting gouged, the poor are very often left out, and this means that we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." That has honestly got to be the biggest pile of steaming crap I have heard come out of someone's mouth in a long time...

/

bonkman 02-13-2013 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57557286)
So ya, there is no hardware to support it.

But I want it! I don't care if it'll only give me 15Mbps upload I want the 1,000 and if I don't get it I'm going to rant, rave, and sign a petition demanding something that I can't actually take advantage of. Ohhhhhh, how can the poor do without their 1,000Mbps internet!

Good summary of the posts in this thread?

All this entire article is, is some wanna be FCC head trying to tug on the heart strings of the uninformed American public by making it seem like class warfare is going on because, let me quote, "the rich are getting gouged, the poor are very often left out, and this means that we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." That has honestly got to be the biggest pile of steaming crap I have heard come out of someone's mouth in a long time...

/

There's no hardware to support 5g phone networks, either. But once the network exists, the hardware will *magically* come into being.

Having fun fighting a strawman? As I said, any DOC3 modem will give speeds >150Mbps. And they CAN be made for any speed necessary.

A better summary would be "telecom communications established monopolies in the US. Like any monopoly, this means they provide relatively terrible service for a relatively high price. One result of this is that the poor are unable to access the same resources as the rich. Since much of the modern world relies on constant access to high-speed internet, this further separates classes."

Well, plus your "I'm not paying that much, so therefore nobody in the US is paying that much for internet" interjections.

santiagoanders 02-13-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57557110)
I have no idea. I'm not in the market for a new modem so I'm not sure. However, I do know there's no upper bound on DOCSIS 3.0. DOC3 handles the data in discrete channels and must support >=4 channels, each with a thoroughput above 40Mbps IIRC. There's no max number of channels and thus there's no upward bound on speed. Different hardware will support different numbers of channels, I am sure.

You might want to read up on information theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan...ey_theorem

There are only so many channels, i.e. no such thing as an infinite-bandwidth channel.

Slvrshot 02-13-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC;57507152[B
]I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds.[/B] Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Also, as someone who used to travel a lot for work I can say with certainty that our internet is far better than virtually everywhere I have ever traveled with the one exception I can think of being Japan.

As for wireless service we pay more because we like our phones to be subsidized. Feel free to use Boost, PagePlus, Virgin, etc. and buy your phone and pay a considerably lower bill. Lastly, it's easier for these other developing regions to put in a kickass fast system. Why? Because it's the first thing they are putting in. They don't have to recoup investment in older technologies. The only place I know of again that has great and fast wireless coverage that exceeds ours that has gone through the various 1G, 3G, 4G, etc. is Asia and they do pay a lot more for tech things than we do so it's not exactly a surprise...

And oh, obligatory "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those poor disenfranchised!!!!!" - this is my favorite part "we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." Hahahahaha, puhhhhhhhhhhhlease! What's next, "we're creating two Americas and deepening inequality through the homes of the rich having dual zone climate control while the poor only having one" :lol:

Lastly, I can chose from multiple internet carriers. I've got AT&T for DSL, TWC for Cable, Hughes for satellite, and then all the wireless providers should I want to do that. On the other hand I have only one option for electricity, gas, trash pickup, and water. Talk about outrage! Why don't I have more choices in my utilities!!!!!!!!!!!


BULLSHIT!!! $30 with who and where?

Slvrshot 02-13-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilian (Post 57509166)
I don't think we're screwed too badly. 20mb internet can be had for $20 month. It's not the 100mb for $10 over in South Korea, but for what our population density is, I don't think it's too bad.

20mb a month by itself? Please tell me where.

highfloydelity 02-13-2013 01:34 PM

Great article: DC think tank tells Americans that their broadband is really great
Critics fire back: "But this isn't summer camp. This is our digital future."
[arstechnica.com]

roughnready 02-13-2013 02:23 PM

Great article. I think calling the study's author a "think tank" might be a bit generous, though.

Lol...

Quote:

“The ITIF report turns our national broadband policy into a self-esteem exercise, on par with one of those contests where everyone wins an award,” Harold Feld, of Public Knowledge, said in an e-mail to Ars. “'Hooray! We tried real hard and we're not so bad after all.' But this isn't summer camp. This is our digital future. If we want a world-class broadband infrastructure, we need to stop coming up with explanations for why things aren't really so bad after all and start dealing with the real problems right in front of our eyes.”

j90275 02-13-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57556698)
No it doesn't. That's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is slow because it can only go ~ 270mph while a F-35 can go mach 1.6. Or if you don't like that it's like saying a Honda Accord is slow because it can only go 130 while the Veyron can go 240.

Both are more than enough...

I'm not sure why you guys feel that you're entitled to 1Gbps for $15/mo but if you think you can deliver it than stop wasting your time here and go out and do it. It's time to put up or shut up but don't think for one minute I will support any initiative to take my tax $ just do you can all download porn faster :D

I respect that you are all pro US pride but let me re-post and edited from above (for the links).
Only we live here will want this country better.

Nothing says about speed is for HD or what to use of the speed (like you said "porn"). People want cheaper rate with fast speed while you have have F-35 leave it to use it or not.
US, is as a country in the world. That says US compared to other countries, title of this thread, internationally comparisons from the original post.
Reports from a US backbone/content distribution company Akamai (who was main content provider in the world):
http://www.akamai.com/dl/akamai/q...raphic.pdf US mobile, slow, see the bottom 2 from the listed comparison.
http://www.akamai.com/dl/whitepap...=soti_Q312 US broadband, slow, average, 10.9mbps, alomost slower than Columbia.

bonkman 02-13-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santiagoanders (Post 57559478)
You might want to read up on information theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan...ey_theorem

There are only so many channels, i.e. no such thing as an infinite-bandwidth channel.

ok, yes. But that's separate from the DOC3 standard. You're talking about a theoretical limitation on ISP speeds.

bonkman 02-13-2013 03:57 PM

:iagree:

great article.

also, did you read the update from ITIF? If nothing else, it goes to show that any debate devolves in the same way we see here on TP :lol:

santiagoanders 02-13-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57562534)
ok, yes. But that's separate from the DOC3 standard. You're talking about a theoretical limitation on ISP speeds.

Even the Docsis 3 standards says that the upper limit on the center frequency of a channel is 999MHz. http://www.cablelabs.com/specific...111117.pdf

That means the standard has an upper limit on the number of channels. There can be at most 149 channels of 6MHz each.

bonkman 02-13-2013 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santiagoanders (Post 57563030)
Even the Docsis 3 standards says that the upper limit on the center frequency of a channel is 999MHz. http://www.cablelabs.com/specific...111117.pdf

That means the standard has an upper limit on the number of channels. There can be at most 149 channels of 6MHz each.

Gotcha, didn't know that.

So 149channels x 40=something Mbps/channel = a lot. :)

Kolto 02-13-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j90275 (Post 57562438)
I respect that you are all pro US pride but let me re-post and edited from above (for the links).
Only we live here will want this country better.

Nothing says about speed is for HD or what to use of the speed (like you said "porn"). People want cheaper rate with fast speed while you have have F-35 leave it to use it or not.
US, is as a country in the world. That says US compared to other countries, title of this thread, internationally comparisons from the original post.
Reports from a US backbone/content distribution company Akamai (who was main content provider in the world):
http://www.akamai.com/dl/akamai/q...raphic.pdf US mobile, slow, see the bottom 2 from the listed comparison.
http://www.akamai.com/dl/whitepap...=soti_Q312 US broadband, slow, average, 10.9mbps, alomost slower than Columbia.

links don't work
and again only anecdotal ofcourse, but when I was in taiwan last month, i can assure you not everyone runs around with 100/100 internet.

None of my relatives have it, they all just use ADSL. There's also no "4G" wireless internet readily available either, pretty much everything still runs on 3G in terms of their cellphones.
this is in Taipei too fyi.

bonkman 02-13-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPT (Post 57565894)
links don't work
and again only anecdotal ofcourse, but when I was in taiwan last month, i can assure you not everyone runs around with 100/100 internet.

None of my relatives have it, they all just use ADSL. There's also no "4G" wireless internet readily available either, pretty much everything still runs on 3G in terms of their cellphones.
this is in Taipei too fyi.

A lot of people tell me I have a Taipei personality. What does that mean?

CyberGuy 02-13-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57507152)
I pay $30 a month for 20MB down and 2MB up with no thresholds. Where, in the first world, is it that cheap? It's been awhile but I recall there being ridiculously low caps down in Oz and NZ and their internet was at the time WAY more expensive to begin with. In a lot of countries you pay for how much you use. There are a lot of people on this board that should appreciate not having that pricing model in effect here!

Also, as someone who used to travel a lot for work I can say with certainty that our internet is far better than virtually everywhere I have ever traveled with the one exception I can think of being Japan.

As for wireless service we pay more because we like our phones to be subsidized. Feel free to use Boost, PagePlus, Virgin, etc. and buy your phone and pay a considerably lower bill. Lastly, it's easier for these other developing regions to put in a kickass fast system. Why? Because it's the first thing they are putting in. They don't have to recoup investment in older technologies. The only place I know of again that has great and fast wireless coverage that exceeds ours that has gone through the various 1G, 3G, 4G, etc. is Asia and they do pay a lot more for tech things than we do so it's not exactly a surprise...

And oh, obligatory "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, those poor disenfranchised!!!!!" - this is my favorite part "we're creating, yet again, two Americas, and deepening inequality through this communications inequality." Hahahahaha, puhhhhhhhhhhhlease! What's next, "we're creating two Americas and deepening inequality through the homes of the rich having dual zone climate control while the poor only having one" :lol:

Lastly, I can chose from multiple internet carriers. I've got AT&T for DSL, TWC for Cable, Hughes for satellite, and then all the wireless providers should I want to do that. On the other hand I have only one option for electricity, gas, trash pickup, and water. Talk about outrage! Why don't I have more choices in my utilities!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this a troll post? Do you not realize that the rest of the country doesn't have the luxury of having internet companies compete for your loyalty? Since you have it so great, I guess we should not care about the rest of society.

riznick 02-13-2013 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivninSC (Post 57510516)
Well then get the 3MB for $40 or TWC for better speeds. I mean, my gosh, do you pay full price for everything when you have to just do a little bit of looking around to save $$?

Move to slower speeds or unusable internet? No thanks, I'd rather not go down to 3MB. I'd rather go up from 6MB. The title of the thread is "slow and expensive". I agree that it is expensive for slow speeds. Your responses come off sounding very ignorant and rude (will that also get this post mod deleted?). While I'd like to go up in speed and have lower costs, I don't have an entitled attitude about it. Your responses have a negative attitude tone to them.

The rates I've shown are the best rates available to me. No shopping around necessary. At home, I had both AT&T and TWC. I eventually dropped the TWC at home due to how unreliable it was in my home.

At my office, I have both AT&T and TWC. TWC is much more stable than AT&T at my office.

Stability depends on your location and provider. Your internet with one provider could be stable while your neighbor across the street's is terrible with the same provider.

Kolto 02-13-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57566098)
A lot of people tell me I have a Taipei personality. What does that mean?

duno, people say people from taipei are very friendly
so maybe thats what it means?

zhopa 02-14-2013 12:44 AM

Internet is slow and expensive because of government regulation. Get of stupid laws such community ISP law, and the service and availability will improve.

bonkman 02-14-2013 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPT (Post 57568076)
duno, people say people from taipei are very friendly
so maybe thats what it means?

don't think too hard -- it's a horrible, horrible pun.

sincere apologies.

j90275 02-14-2013 09:07 AM

please ignore this one, newbie here.

j90275 02-14-2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPT (Post 57565894)
links don't work
and again only anecdotal ofcourse, but when I was in taiwan last month, i can assure you not everyone runs around with 100/100 internet.

None of my relatives have it, they all just use ADSL. There's also no "4G" wireless internet readily available either, pretty much everything still runs on 3G in terms of their cellphones.
this is in Taipei too fyi.

Taiwan has 6 carriers offered 4G as one of the first countries to adopt 4G according to wikipedia. Global mobile, Vmax, Far East Tone,... Taipei has 2 providers and coverage is like: here [com.tw] and here [vmax.net.tw]. But Tawian government is controlling LTE licensing, only given WiMax so far.

Taiwan is not a country if you consider it's not a member to United Nation. Their 100/100 is very very expensive compared to surrounding countries for $55 [hinet.net] a month but hourly rate is $3-$4 range, gas price is about $4.442 today [com.tw] . That's consider high for 100/100 to their local hourly rate.

The reason Hong Kong or other places were mentioned because this thread is about compared (for better examples I hope).

We lived here in Los Angeles, are lacking of higher speed solutions but high cost (FIOS build out is limited). I personally chatted or called to Time Warner, Verizon if they can offer deals, from time to time. It's not easy. The best is 1M download for $20, 6 months, not lucky enough. DSL extreme now need phone service to come with it, no dryloop anymore and verizon zone is up to 7M [dslextreme.com] for $45 but with phone that's $80 with phone tax in there.

I have to agree with a lot of people on this thread. It's varied from place to place but overall, it's getting less competitions and even 2nd tier provider is not that affordable.

Compared to old days, US was a leading country on internet speed and flat rate era, now is toward to cap usage [dslreports.com], meter rate while backbone price dropped dramatically [dslprime.com].

bonkman 02-14-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhopa (Post 57570190)
Internet is slow and expensive because of government regulation. Get of stupid laws such community ISP law, and the service and availability will improve.

you're too quick to jump on the "blame the govt" bandwagon here.

Other than the fact that the govt allowed monopolies and duopolies to be set up essentially everywhere in America.

zhopa 02-14-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonkman (Post 57579012)
you're too quick to jump on the "blame the govt" bandwagon here.

Other than the fact that the govt allowed monopolies and duopolies to be set up essentially everywhere in America.

It's either government or consumers. They hold the power in the market place.
The government, in this case, didn't just allow monopolies to be setup, they actually supported it and prevented competition from entering the market place.
Lightsquared is the latest example.


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