Pre Order Surface Pro 64gb and get $100 GC @microsoftstore.com
 

http://surface.microsoftstore.com...aching=off

Add to cart and you will see a $100 credit for your next purchase.

NOTE: They are sold out and taking preorders. The 128gb is $1000 and this model is $900 + $100 in credit. I would certainly recommend this over the 128gb model (plus they are not taking pre orders for the 128gb model).

Please do not thumb down because this is a pre-order, it would not be very accurate to do so. Many video game pre order deals would never hit front page if thumbing down pre orders made any sense, which it doesn't.

These sold out day 1. They are on intel based processors (not the arm based processors like windows rt tabets). That means yes, you can download anything on it just as you would a pc. This gives you access to market content from amazon, apple, google and microsoft (although ms store is in early stages).

WARNING: Reading amoghthegamer posts will make you dumber.

This post can and should be edited by users like you :)
 

DEAD


Frequently asked questions and answers

• What is the primary reason for buying Surface Pro over RT?
  • To run all the existing Windows XP/7 software.
• What is the primary reason for buying an RT tablet over an iPad or Android tablet?
  • To run Office (Word, PowerPoint, Excel, OneNote).
• What are the reasons for buying RT over Pro?
  • All-day battery life.
  • Fanless design means dead silent.
  • Includes Office.
  • Thiner and lighter.
• How did Microsoft come up with these prices?
  • RT: http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/...veals.aspx
  • RT and Pro: http://www.tech-thoughts.net/2012...imate.html
  • Pro: "The CPU from Intel alone retails for $225, that’s over half the price of a Nexus 10." (see Anandtech review)

Latest news

• https://twitter.com/panos_panay/s...9048188929
• http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/...rface-pro/
• http://www.cio.com/article/728622...er_Reports
• http://www.zdnet.com/forrester-su...000010860/

Surface storage

• http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/storage

Reviews

• http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695
• http://www.dailytech.com/article....wsid=29838
• http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2...166,00.asp
• Not easy to open: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mi...wn/12842/1

Getting Started Guide

• http://blogs.msdn.com/b/microsoft...guide.aspx

Forum

• http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/microsoft/

Hi,

I am thinking you meant 64GB model. I see it as $899+$100 gift card. How did you get $800+$100 gift card? Please let me know.

how do you preorder 128GB?
do i have to call?
that is against the SD rule!

My bad, edited. I did not purchase this, I just saw that it had a gift card offer and thought people pre ordering would like to know. Would probably pay for most if not all of a keyboard.
I will sit out until intel based tablets come down in price. However, this is an excellent product that is as smooth as butter. I currently own an asus tf600 rt tab I got for $350 w/ keyboard, however its obviously restricted to the MS Store. Given the smooth experience on a tegra 3, I can't even imagine how w8 runs on an i5. This simply isn't in the same league as an ipad, I hope people don't start comparing them on this forum. An ipad simply doesn't have the architecture to accomplish what this tablet does. For its price however, it will scare many.

Rumor is such limited qts that they are not taking orders for it now. I did not call, however calling probably wont do anything at all.

How is the battery life on the new i5 version compared to the say Dell/HP/Lenovo versions with Atom CPU? I'd be more tempted if it weren't for sales tax w/ MS store...

I'm hearing a lot of rumours that the prices on these will be coming down due to low sales and general meh reception of Windows 8. I am sure the initial demand will be high on these beefier units, but will it hold up? I would like to get one of these at some point, but they seem a little pricey right now.

The call rule only applies for price mistakes, coupons / coupon stacking, other possible errors, etc.

This is an advertised sale - there is no harm from calling.

I don't think the price will come down for quite some time - after all, the Pro's were JUST released. And generally businesses are the ones that are buying. Other than a sale every now and then like this one with a $100 GC included, I wouldn't expect a price drop any earlier than 6 months, if not Christmas time .. and I doubt it will be a significant drop on the Pro units since these are not targeted towards casual or home users primarily.

Weak sales are on the RT models, people see the marketplace for those going as far as the windows phone..........This is basically like introducing a whole new segment (although I really think that was done with atom based w8 tablets too). There were windows desktops (majority) then windows laptops (majority) now windows based tablets. As prices lower and get closer to laptops (larger screen sizes too maybe), you really just have to ask yourself do I want a laptop or a laptop that I can take the screen off and use as a tablet too? This has a 3rd gen i5 with intel 4000 integrated grx, you simply can't compare it to a kindle/ipad/galaxy. So you keep the same functionality of a laptop and only add more options.

It is expensive but at least it replaces any need for something like a macbook air. Now with w8 os and a touch screen, and the fact you can run programs as you like on desktop mode with a keyboard, whats the point of a macbook air unless you solely want mac os. You have to give up touch features and a touch screen. You'd have to buy an ipad and carry both around (laughs). There are tablets and there are intel tablets, which are basically laptops.

it won't happen.
don't listen to A and i fanboys speculations.
I think the price is reasonable if you consider some fancy stuffs that it has.

and microsoft has to swallow up much its pride for that too happen. and they are too rich for that. They won't probably lower the price until like BF or when the new one comes out.


I will take the surface pro 64gb one with 100 coupon over ipads and nexus 10 any day.
no comparison here.

good deal but noone wants a 64 GB Surface Pro

I wish somebody would tear this thing down and let us know for certain if the SSD is replaceable. If it is, I'm all in for a 64GB version just so I can strip it out and put in a 240GB SSD from Crucial or Intel. We already know that the SSD is a mSATA part from Crucial, we just don't know if its soldered, or a custom form factor, or just a royal PITA to get to.

Meh, flash drives or micro sd..............also if its msata then $100 more for 64gb is really not the way to go.

wow, just saw 1080p screen, thats not even necessary, 720p would have been fine

$99 or bust.

Bill Gates said he uses these...in interviews. I'm sure he has a secret ipad somewhere for casual use, though.

Just a correction .. Surface pro has a 3rd gen i5 NOT i3

First off I already have a acer w500 and I have windows 8 on that the full fledged version. They are like 300$-375$ on ebay and come with a keyboard.

That is the best full windows 8 tablet for the price out there.

These surface pros are beefy , I would only get it if you plan on doing artwork or writing with the pen, otherwise I would suggest holding off on buying one and purchase a Razer edge tablet which has much better specs and is priced competively .

My bad, got caught up in 3s, ya the best i3 is like 2500hd

Yes, there's even asus tablets and touch screen laptops out there of great value too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Pro...6834230826

But you can't compare atom and 2gb to a 3rd gen i5 and 4gb.

Just got done chating with a Microsoft Store rep. He stated the $100 coupon toward a future purchase will also be offered on the 128GB model when it comes in stock. I will be waiting, because I prefer more memory. Although, I could just throw a 64GB SD card in the slot and be up to 128GB. I have an SD card just laying here, sealed in the box from a slickdeal 3 months ago. lol

I think it will go down in price. Almost $1K for a laptop with 128gb and I hear that only around 80gb is available for storage. And the reason why they sold out the first day was most stores only had 1-2 in stock. Even the official MS store only had like 5-6 on hands. So obviously anything will sell out when you carry so few on hand.

When they drop to around $600 then I will be interested. If they can make top of the line android tabs for that price, they should be able to make windows tab for that price too.

"Even a well-executed Surface still doesn't work for me, and I'd bet it doesn't work for most other people either. It's really tough to use on anything but a desk, and the wide, 16:9 aspect ratio pretty severely limits its usefulness as a tablet anyway. It's too big, too fat, and too reliant on its power cable to be a competitive tablet, and it's too immutable to do everything a laptop needs to do. In its quest to be both, the Surface is really neither. It's supposed to be freeing, but it just feels limiting."

which android tabs have an i5?

How many android tabs have i5 procs in them?


*Edit* FYU beat me to it!

lol $750 BEFORE gift card or GTFO Microsoft.

I'll wait and think about these when the drop to under $500 for the pro and under $200 for an RT.

I second that. Most people just don't understand arm vs intel architecture. I should try selling my asus tf600 rt tablet on this forum :shake:

I'd like to get a one of these Surface tablets to replace my laptop, but the Surface does not have very good battery life. I'm contemplating getting the W700 instead.

The Windows RT is made for around that much, which is similar to what an Android tablet does. This is for a Surface PRO, and it has actual PC hardware, not mobile hardware. As others have said, show me an Android tablet with an i5 3rd gen processor, rather than an ARM based processor, and you may have a point.

Posting a quote doesn't help if you don't attribute that quote.

Well, at around $100 less, you'd expect the iPad to be within the same league as the Surface Pro. Not only does it not come anywhere close in terms of functionality, but the performance is nothing even remotely close to what that i5 will deliver.

lolCrapple.

I agree, people are really dumb when it comes to things like this. I mean cmon, people are trying to put the iPad on the same level as this. That's comical in and of itself.

Man that $100 credit is tempting to get a type cover... but I really wanted the full 128gb...

Choices, choices...

get the kupa ultranote x15. you can swap batteries.
http://www.dynamism.com/top-windo..._x15.shtml

The I5 is a nice touch but a bit over kill for the application purposes of this type of tablet. A nice AMD A10 would be better cause then at least you would get a good integrated graphics card. If your making something considered to be high end, then put in a onboard 4000HD graphics solution that's fail. Also there are plenty of I5 EEE slates from asus on ebay for around $400-600! Also they have them on amazon as well for around $550. So dont look so high and mighty when you dont even know. Just cause its brand new they think they can ram someone up the Ahole. Overall just cause this uses a newer I5 its nowhere near worth the price tag especially with a pitiful 64gig drive that only leaves 29gigs of space. On top of that a crappy integrated HD4000..... So as i said then it drops around $600 ill be interested, until then just like apple with their ipad, Microsoft can go suck it.

hahaha. EEE slates? I had one. it's a POS compares to this.

You said show you a tab with a I5, I did. On top of it, it was the most highly rated windows 7 tab out there. So just cause your proven wrong, dont be so sour about it.

Decent deal. The only thing preventing me from getting Surface Pro at this point is the battery life.
I suspect the next update with Haswell should solve this issue.
As with most technology, don't go first version / bleeding edge unless you absolutely need it for life/work.

and how much does a comparable eee tablet cost?

New generation i5 and HD4000 graphics has a huge performance increase from the last generation... I can play games on the Surface Pro, and at a respectable FPS to boot.

All features considered, this is spec'd out similarly to an ultrabook convertible, which usually runs over a grand. Apparently you don't know much about this market...

why do i buy this tablet when i can get the beautiful ipad for the same price or cheaper?

First you'd have to find one, second you'd have to buy w8 pro, third you'd have to hope drivers work. Not saying these kill it for everyone, but hey theres some refurbs on ebay for $800, just need to buy w8 and install it, but you're very close to this price and its not new. I love the idea of the a10 on w8 though, props. Amd apu integrated grx kick the **** out of intels. Don't know if haswell will repsond, my guess is marginally more performance but a dip in power usage which will be huge for this segment. However, getting processing of intel, grx of amd apu and power usage of arm is a fantasy. Too much power need for a10 to drop one in this, might have enough battery time to get through a game of solitaire.

ROFL. If you need to ask that question, just go waste your money on an iPad...

As I stated earlier in my previous post. The EE slates can be had for about $400-600 used/refurbed. Compared to the $900 price tag of a surface which is a joke. Only difference is the I5 is newer and the screen rez higher. As stated by someone a post above me, when these things come out and are bleeding edge new, the price tag is a joke, and is never a deal.

why do you recommend it over the 128gb? is there something wrong with the 128 (other than being unavailable)? surely, you're not recommending simply because of small $200 difference?

How are those Surface Pro tablets compared to Lenovo Yoga 13?

I suggest there aren't good deals on any fully-functional W8 devices right now (not RT), for the simple reason that they are just ramping up factory production of larger touchscreens for these things, so we are in early adopter mode. That $400ish Acer Vivobook is maybe reasonable, but even that is a lot for a fancy netbook.

A year from now you will realize that this very nice Microsoft product is at a high premium, even on sale. Remember when the 30gb Zune was $250? Now you can get a 32gb microsd card that does the same thing better in your phone for $20. Microsoft and the PC manufacturers have to compete with Android and Apple and people holding onto their old laptops so prices must come way down or W8 will be a bust. Not TCing, just sayin.

Someone probably answered you already, but Surface Pro doesn't get you great battery life (3-4 hours). It's in line with any other light weight Ultrabooks.
Atom CPU equipped samsung xe500t gets 10 hours battery life.

Short battery life and heat is what you get for the huge performance boost. Both are good though. Bought my wife a Surface Pro 128GB. I'm settled with the Samsung XE500T since I already have a powerful X230T.

Im getting between 5 and 6 hours with the 128gb.

The HD4000 is decent integrated graphics. Paired with the i5, you can play Arkham City at 30fps with decent settings. As the Surface Pro is an actual PC with actual PC hardware, you could install Arkham City on it and play with a USB keyboard/mouse combo or a USB gamepad. Again, try doing that with an iPad or even an A10. And no way the EEE slates can get close to that.

While true that I personally wouldn't buy one because of the limitations, and the fact that I already have a decent gaming laptop, it is also true that comparing this to the $1000 iPad is just folly. Comparing it to $600 EEE slates with a last gen i3 and HD3000 graphics is also dumb. The Surface Pro has a newer processor, better graphics, and a higher resolution screen. Of course something newer with updated specs is going to cost more. Wait until Asus comes out with a new EEE slate and see if the prices and specs compare.

As I mentioned earlier, you must not be looking to hard, I found plenty around $400-$600 on ebay and on amazon. Also it was never required to find a Windows 8 tablet with a I5 all that was asked if find me a tablet with a I5 which I did. Also with the windows upgrade program when it was active windows 8 would have only cost $15 to upgrade. As for driver that I dont know cause I never tried or looked into it.

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Slate-...ows+tablet

Playing on low to medium setting at lower resolutions and AA off is not considered playing a game in my book. I know a lot about this market and I know when things are done overkill, and overpriced for suckering people. Things like this are done to get the so called techies, that really have no idea.

Small $200 difference :wave:

You may be in left feild

If it ends up the storage is msata, you could just as well buy your own storage and sell your 64gb off.

To give you a hint of what the small $200 can buy you, its double what the other model offers.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/c...&A=details

What you stand to gain: Doube the storage, a spare msata 64gb drive (worth $50+) and $10 in pocket, welcome to slickdeals :)

I would have been all over this except in this case, I think the Surface Pro will really shine when it incorporates Intel's Haswell line of ultra low power, next gen processors (~ 7W TDP) that are due out later this year. That should enable significantly longer battery life on the Surface Pro and allow it to hit at least 6 hours (at which point it becomes an awesome option for me).

It's a pity that MS couldn't release this with Haswell based chips...then again, MS and Intel aren't that great pals after MS released Windows RT for ARM.

Your Chat Transcript from Microsoft Store
General Info
Chat start time Feb 12, 2013 1:34:58 PM ESTChat end time Feb 12, 2013 2:10:57 PM ESTDuration (actual chatting time) 00:35:59Answer Tech Clay

Chat Transcript
info: Thank you for choosing Microsoft Store. An Answer Tech will be with you shortly.
info: Privacy Statement [microsoft.com]
You are now chatting with 'Kelly'.
Kelly: Thanks for contacting Microsoft Store Chat! How can I help you today?
You: i ordered a 64 GB Surface Pro, but now i noticed today that there is an additional $100 gift card being offered with the purchase
You: i was wondering if that offer would be extended to those who bought yesterday (like me) as well
Kelly: i'd be happy to help you with the surface pro
Kelly: can you tell me where this is being offered?
You: on the microsoft store website:
You: http://surface.microsoftstore.com
You: the "$100 coupon for your next Microsoft Store online purchase" appears in your cart as you get ready to checkout
Kelly: ok and can you tell me when you purchased your surface?
Kelly: and from where?
You: from the microsoft store (online)
You: the same place as the link i just sent
Kelly: ok can you please give me your order number?
You: my order: Microsoft Store - Order Confirmation (Order #MS*****25)
Kelly: Just a moment while I look into that for you.
Kelly: let me get you to customer service, they may be able to allow you that promotion.
info: Please wait while I transfer the chat to the appropriate group.
info: Privacy Statement [microsoft.com]
You are now chatting with 'Clay'.
Clay: Thank you for visiting Microsoft Store Customer Support, this is Clay. I will be handling your case from here. Please give me 2-3 minutes while I review the previous conversation.
Clay: Thank you for waiting.
You: no problem
Clay: I have checked the website for such offer, but there isn't a $100 coupon for purchasing Surface Pro.
You: *link removed for privacy/security*
Clay: There have been promotions for that earlier, but for selected items only.
You: that is a screenshot of my cart when i go to checkout today
Clay: I am unable to view external links from our end.
You: after you add the surface pro to cart...then you will see a $100 credit for your next purchase.
Clay: I see. Just a second let me verify that . Please give me 2-3 minutes
Clay: Thank you for waiting. Since there are no offers directly displayed on the website for that. You $100 coupon may be granted to you for your next Surface purchase, accumulated by making your first Surface order.
You: i don't understand...for another surface purchase or another (next) Microsoft Store purchase?
You: the offer if i bought my Surface today (as opposed to yesterday) is: $100 coupon for your next Microsoft Store online purchase
Clay: Sorry, another Microsoft purchase, if that's displayed on your screen.
You: i see
Clay: Aside from that, would there be anything else I can assist you with today?
You: so, am i able to obtain the "$100 coupon for your next Microsoft Store online purchase" today?
Clay: Yes, if you see that on your screen as you are logged in www.microsoftstore.com.
You: i already made my purchase yesterday...i was not offered this coupon
You: i don't want to make the same purchase today in order to receive this offer
Clay: Yes, the coupon may have been rewarded to you for making the purchase yesterday.
You: i was hoping to have it added on to my order from yesterday
You: how would i know if it was rewarded to me?
Clay: Usually, if you have a coupon, you should be receiving a notification for that. And a code will be sent to you for the coupon.
Clay: That code (coupon) can be used for your purchases.
You: via email?
Clay: If you were not offered a coupon yesterday for the purchase, please understand that the website offers promotions from time to time.
Clay: Yes. Please check your email for any notifications for a coupon that has been rewarded.
You: the MS store website today indicates that the coupon is a "download" (you get it after you place your order)
Clay: If there is none, then that may be a promotion for placing an order today.
Clay: Yes it is a "download" as it is a code, not a physical coupon like the ones from a physical store.
You: that is what i was thinking...i was wondering if the promotion could be applied retroactively (since i only ordered mine yesterday)
You: should i contact customer service by phone and see if this can be added to my (already fulfilled) order?
Clay: I understand. As I have said, the website offers promotions from time to time. If it was not offered yesterday at the time of your purchase, just to set the right expectations, then you won't be able to ask for a claim with that for your purchase yesterday.
Clay: Yes you may contact customer service but I am unable to guarantee that they will be able to grant the coupon from your order.
You: okay, i will try to contact them by phone...i believe that today's offer should be given to yesterday's buyers--as a matter of fairness so i will see if that view is shared by the phone reps
Clay: I totally understand your point.
Clay: Yes you may contact them, Microsoft Customer Central at 1-800-642-7676 from Monday to Friday, 8 A.M. to 12 A.M. EST and Saturday & Sunday, 12 PM to 6 P.M. EST.
You: otherwise i might as well return my purchase and order again (in order to get the $100 coupon)
Clay: Aside from that, would there be anything else I can assist you with today?
You: no thank you
Clay: Yes you may do that too.
Clay: Alright then.
Clay: Thank you for visiting the Microsoft Store, once again this is Clay. Have a great day!
You: ok thanks
Clay: Thank you

On decent settings that's a joke right?

http://blog.laptopmag.com/we-test...nt-have-to

That is just the first link I could find that shows how fail the HD4000 is. There are many more that just show bad integrated intel is. Also as I mentioned before I was tasked with finding a I5 in a tablet and I did. As for most people who get these types of tablets they wont see a difference in performance between the asus and the surface. Cause we all know that web surfing and watching youtube requires the best of specs.

Nope, I see 1 on ebay. Amazon you'd have to put up with wear and tear, so $600+os wear and tear vs $800 (if you find use for gc, probably keyboard) brand new with warranty. Plus id hate installing drivers and messing with an eee out of warranty :eek:. Your idea doesn't suck, it just doesnt suggest an enormous gap. Lower screen res, also dunno if the eee has msata?

EDIT: I see the $400 ones............do you ebay? You know what buy it now vs bid is right?

I think the thing that kills the surface for me is the lack of a good lap usage. I've actually felt the same with tablets, too, honestly... my neck always starts to hurt after a while. I would love it if the keyboard cover acted like a laptop in that regard, rather than needing the kickstand.

only difference is a much better screen and much better i5? that's what you're saying? and I guess that's not worth any extra.

get out of this thread, troll.

I like how I proved you wrong, and you call me a troll. Please focus on your study's and stop ditching class. Someone let the kids out early it seems today?

Not to mention whats the point of a better I5 and a higher rez screen when you cant take full advantage of it. Can I play games on higher rez settings nope, can I do video editing any better, not really........ So I see the many benefits. Also again I was just asked to find you a I5 in a tablet and I did.

May be a good idea that no1 else try this. May hurt future chances if its some kind of error. I do not see any literature on the site, I just know its in the cart when you check out. Your best COA would have been to just buy this and cancel your first one. I understand if your first one will ship vs this which is a pre order, but if the 1st order was a pre order you really would have gained no ground. Calls may effect others getting the promo, MAY. Just wouldn't recommend others do this. Further, you may have some people say OMG NEVER CALL BIG SD RULE.

actually if you're going to be a picky ass.

I asked for an android tablet that has an i5. you produced a windows tablet.

lol, Gaming at 30-60fps is not considered "gaming"? The only thing that will outperform this and is on the same level as this device would be the Razer Edge, set to cost around $1,300+, not to mention accessories for it are also extremely expensive. Not that I wouldn't rather have that, but LOL, you're funny bro. Surface Pro, from what I can tell will be an IT guy's best friend.

sick of seeing this moron post. comparing a refurb to something that's new. no shit there's a price difference. stfu already

ah well that's a completely different story. if msata, of course i'd get the 64gb version and upgrade to 256 as well. i just assumed it's not user replaceable memory, in which case i stand by original statement that $200 is worth it - at least for me - for double the memory.

Still a ripoff. Lenovo got it right at that sub-$600 price point. Otherwise, good luck competing with the iPad and the cheaper Android tablets. I see the Surface Pro flopping. 3.5 hour battery life doesn't cut it.

Well coming from someone who has actually used both instead of just pulling up links, I can tell you that there is no comparison between the Pro and the Asus. A more fair comparison would be the Samsung series slate which debuted at $1199. If you are upset about microsoft charging $899 for a intel 4000, you should be irate that the MacBook Air, Macbook Pro, Sony duo 11, and the Samsung ativ 700t all have the exact same card while priced higher than the Pro.

Jesus, how many times does it have to be said. THIS ISNT COMPARABLE TO A FREAKING ANDROID OR IPAD OR WINDOWS RT tablet.

This is comparable to the other ultra books ... which guess what .. cost around 1000 dollars for similar specs.

I think you're the one who comes off as a whiny immature kid. Not everyone who buys a Surface Pro buys it for gaming. Nor for browsing and youtube. People with jobs who use computers for more than just gaming will find the added specs a definite bonus. Photoshop CS5 loads up in under 5 seconds and works like a dream, as do a number of other productivity apps. Having the stylus for taking notes, USB 3.0, SD card, etc and not to mention the higher resolution screen are all great features that people can and will appreciate and make use of. The higher res screen is not even something to argue about, unless you have your dumbass world view where everything is judged by its performance or lack thereof for gaming.

If anything, higher resolution is far more beneficial for productivity applications/ browsing than it is for gaming.

Double "storage". However 64gb extra of storage for $200.................I dunno. I could see if microsd and usb were not onboard. Removable storage will be more practical, as I said many wont have 30gb in programs...........So even if its not msata, I still disagree. Msata just makes it a bigger no no. However if you will fill 64gb with programs and os, and its not msata, then you have no choice. Very very very small amout of people that concerns.

How does this compare to my daughters Leapfrog Leap pad? I just don't understand the price difference, they do exactly the same thing!

Unless your playing old games the only way your going to be gaming on 30-60fps is with low setting and 1366X768 rez for the screen rez. Someone mentioned batman game earlier in the postings and how they could play it on decent settings. I showed them the exact settings that would make the game playable and they were low. If you scroll up you can see the link I posted in there. So that mutes the point of having a High rez screen except for more desktop space, and also mutes the point of it being a I5 when all it can achieve is low settings and old game.

And here's one [anandtech.com] showing how decent it can be. It even compares quad core Ivy Bridge to dual core ultra low voltage (ULV) Ivy Bridges, which is what the Surface Pro uses. They were able to run Arkham City on medium settings at 32fps, and Portal 2 at 52. They do mention that updated drivers helped tremendously, and since your link is from April while mine is from June, it's entirely possible that your link is outdated due to updated drivers.

Actually, you were comparing top of the line Android tablets at $600 to the Surface Pro at $900. You said, and I quote:

(emphasis mine)

You were then asked to find an Android tab with an i5, which you haven't done. You found a last-gen, refurbished/used tablet with an i5, not a top of the line tablet, which is what you said goes for $600. We're still waiting.

If someone is using the Surface Pro for that, then they're buying way more than they need to. The Surface Pro is for people who want a tablet with PC functionality, an ultraportable PC, something they can install full versions of Window's software on, not for surfing and Youtubing.

What is the point of a high powered i5 Windows based tablet vs. an utlraportable?

Is there any benefit of doing things you'd want to do on an ultraportable/laptop vs. on a touch interface tablet? I get that it's more portable, but otherwise, what Windows software truly takes advantage of the touch interface? Most Windows based programs that I use work best with a keyboard and mouse. I'm currently not aware of many uses for the Surface over a laptop besides the cool factor, especially anything requiring an i5, but I'm sure someone can fill me in.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, I'm just wondering. Thanks.

Yes, the Surface Pro is not a gaming machine. Not everyone buys ultrabooks/tablets/laptops to game. People do other, more productive shit on computers. Understand this and deal with it. And take a break from your video games kid.

eh. all it does is remove the "keyboard" portion of the ultrabook and moves it to the screen. so it's helpful if you do stuff that doesn't need the keyboard all the time.
I can do a lot of my work without a keyboard and mouse. but I don't need the portability, so I'm not getting one.

this is a niche product, and as clearly demonstrated by this thread most people don't need one.

OMG, when are we going to get past these comparisons.
This is a completely different product.
The competition is ultrabooks and convertibles.

For me, a great product, not quite there yet, but we'll get there in the near future.

Its 100% for the portability. The thing is 2 lbs .. very light for a ultra book. And the form factor is smaller. So its easy enough to carry it with you everywhere. Use it while walking etc

Someone that wants the portability of a tablet, but wants to still be able to run full pc apps without a second device.

Agree, I thought the $350 asus rt with keyboard was great because office 13 would have cost me $100 anyway. To each their own.

if anyone is boston and would like some giftcards to the MS store, let me know and i can probably help out.

Thumbs down for whining about thumbs down.

That was me, and your link was debunked, so it moots (not mutes) the point you were trying to make.

1366 x 768 isn't a problem for a 10" screen though. I only got 20/20, dunno about other aliens on this forum. I like the hardware specs, even earlier I stated I don't know why they needed a 1080p screen though. Its a plus I wouldn't pay for if given the option. 720p on a 24" or 27" monitor..........much much dif story. If one is to play with a mouse and keyboard, you have to figure they are 2ft from this thing, at which point one CANT tell the difference, its science. At closer than 2ft their neck will fall off leaning forward (assuming leaning over a surface, surface needed for keyboard and mouse).

Thanks for the responses. Is running full pc apps on a touch device awkward or do you feel it's well implement at this point in the Surface's life cycle?

Most really need mouse input.

Well for one, you get the ultra portability that something like the Surface Pro affords you, which in itself can be a big deal. I hate lugging my laptop with me on vacations, but with a Surface Pro, I can still pull pics off my camera, process them in lightroom, share them online as well as display them easily on screen and pass around to friends and family.

That of course is just one scenario. The other is what touch can and will bring to the table. I have an iPad and I think touch works beautifully for annotating text. I read all technical documents, papers and reference books on my iPad, annotate them and sync everything over dropbox. It works beautifully, but I'd much rather have that on a x86 Windows system where I have access to the file system and all the power and flexibility I am used to having with PCs / laptops.

Note taking is also another feature that I'd like to see improve with the Surface Pro. The stylus looks promising and is obviously way better than the blunt rubbery stylii that you can get for typical capacitive touchscreens.

Everyone loves to hate products from different companies, Apple, MS, etc, but I genuinely think that the Surface Pro has a LOT of potential. Even if gen 1 does not completely fulfill that potential, I think it's going to get much better over time. I personally feel that Apple and especially Google with Android dropped the ball on the tablet side of things. They never developed Android / IOS beyond a point to make it a true potential replacement for a PC by giving you all the power and flexibility you have on a true OS like Windows/OSX. I think corporate adoption of Surface Pro will be a big factor in its success, but for MS it doesn't even matter so much as long as this spurs their partners to also start releasing products like the Surface Pro.

Repped..........wait what

Actually even with the new drivers you seemed to miss the screen rez they were running the game at 1366X768.... My link shows what happens when you tried the other settings and using the full HD rez this tablet comes with. This tablet chokes the second you try to utilize the full HD screen.

it really depends on the apps.

I've had tablets before, like the thinkpad ones and they're pretty easy to use. though they were pen only, no touch.

Well I'm in Boston and I'm interested!

Nope, didn't miss that. Your link still showed that playing at low settings on 1366x768 gave below 30 fps, which mine shows to be untrue.

Also, way to completely ignore everything else in my post. No response to the rest of that?

$900 tablet....pass...Microsoft should be ashamed to come up with something with this price range.
Aren't they already taking huge loses with Nokia Lumia thing...

Yea, because I'm also a jobless 15 year old who gets everything from his mom and only cares about what games he can play. I actually have a job as an IT Admin who also does software/hardware support on mechanical x-ray devices. Being able to play League of Legends wherever I go is just a bonus.

See, unlike you... there are people who have these things called jobs. We can pay for cool devices like this that don't have to be built for gaming, because I have my tower at home running an i7 3770K @ 4.8ghz, 16GB 2400mhz RAM, a GTX 680 FTW 4GB, RAID 0 SSD's, and a custom liquid cooling system (XSPC Raystorm block). So, kid, take a seat and let the pros who know what they're doing talk.

I think you missed the part where IT'S SPEC'D LIKE AN ULTRABOOK AND ESSENTIALLY IS AN ULTRABOOK CONVERTIBLE.

Obviously you don't know this market.

Jesus, I didn't realize just how clueless people are. No wonder everyone blows money on iPads...

I completely disagree. There are 2 aspects to screen resolution:

1) Pixel density for clarity of text
2) Screen real estate due to higher resolution

I have a 7 year old Dell that has a 1440x900 14" screen. That is infinitely better than a 1366x768 screen. At first glance it looks like it isn't much of a difference at all, except that if you look closer, you lose 130 vertical pixels which is ~ 15% of vertical screen real estate and that makes a big difference when browsing or programming or working on photoshop, etc.

The lower pixel density is also easy to see and fonts definitely look a lot worse. This is especially bothersome for those who develop/code on their laptops. Not everyone notices the lower pixel densities and the eye strain caused by it when working for a long time on a laptop, but the reduced vertical screen real estate is a big issue and loss.

I don't think arbitrarily high resolutions on Windows are good due to its poor handling of scaling and eye strain that can be caused by elements looking too tiny. However, the Surface Pro has a great resolution for a tablet/laptop hybrid and it will work well in Desktop Mode as well (as long as you're not trying to use fingers in desktop mode).

I disagree. he seems to know a good deal about the market and enough to know its true value. Like the post in the OP shows... t is costing MS approx $400 to make these. If at any point MS wants to move more of these because the current cost is not selling as projected be prepared to see these drop $200-400 over the next 2-6 months respectively. Good deal for those that cant wait (I guess?). It's just like new phones (costing $300 within first month then prices fall precipitously afterward).

No kidding. And now they have the option to blow $1000 on an iPad, when they could get an actual PC with actual PC functionality for that much.

Like I said, I'm not going to get into opinion. Many avs forums provide resolution and its effect on 20/20 vision at distances. The "if you take a closer look" negates the whole point (except if you display onto a monitor, which is also a point I made). You use the device in which is comfortable, at which that distance 720p is fitting.

$1,000 for a tablet. Is this some kind of stupid joke, Microsoft?

False. If it's in tablet form, it's a tablet. You can't have the cake and eat it too; if you want to call it an ultraportable then it's terrible considering the atom CPU and only 49gb of storage after the OS. And even so, 3.5 hours of battery life hardly fits in ultraportable or tablet territory. The Lenovo Thinkpad 2 is a tablet, and I see no distinction between it and the Surface Pro.

Sir, with all due respect I know market more than you do.
Three of my friends works for Microsoft.
I have seen better specd ultra book from Sony, HP and Dell in less price.
So stop patronizing people, because if I am like any other crap here an iPad fan, I wouldn't be here.

everyone has a personal price point on an item's value, do not get your panties in a bunch. Just because you find this MSRP a good deal, does not mean everyone else does. Yeah it sucks that they are thread crapping but thats what thread crappers do, and you aint gonna change that by yelling. I'm sure you would agree with them on something else, for instance maybe they would spend 400k on a Bugati, but you feel it is only worth 325k, so you simply wait the "X" time for that price to fall (that's all they are saying).

So many uninformed posters in this thread. It's one thing to say that Surface isn't for you but this other nonsense is just silly.

Who is this product targeted to? People who would normally buy an ultrabook but want even better portability and the functionality of being able to use their ultrabook like a tablet.

If you aren't interested in ultrabooks or full blown Windows 8 tablets then this product is definitely not for you.

The biggest knock for me is battery life. However, all of the ultrabook W8 reviews I've seen so far show poor performance. Not an excuse - more of a reality facing the technology today. I'm not normally away from a power plug for 5 hours so it doesn't both me but I can see it being a deal breaker for some.

I would very much like to replace my ThinkPad with a Surface Pro. Just not sure it will be an option for me when my work tech refresh hits in 6 months.

I don't know so much about a niche product. I think it's just so different than what people are used to, they don't even know enough to figure out what it's for. The way I see it, is this is an ultrabook convertible that will give you the best of tablets and laptops, if you get the keyboard attachment. A lot of people make use of ultrabooks, as well as tablets. I'm sure the benefit people can get out of this can be pretty big. I know it would have helped me out this past week in rebuilding a network when the proverbial sh*t hit the fan during the blizzard this past Friday.

tldr; Ultrabooks are useful for tons of people. This is essentially an ultrabook. Just a little smaller than usual, lol.

Surface Pro doesn't have an Atom CPU.

The Thinkpad 2 has an Atom procesor, 2gb ram, lower resolution screen, and worse performing GPU.

rofl.

I am Steve Ballmer and I can see the future.

What are you talking about? Atom processor? This has an i5 :shake: and 4gb of ram ...


You might want to do research before you go off and copy and paste your same incorrect infomation.

So I'll just do what you did ... FALSE!

You are right. The iPad is not on the Surface's level. The iPad is above it. :lmao: I find it a joke you are even comparing the two! The Surface Pro is not there to compete with the iPad, its there to compete with the Ultrabooks. If Microsoft wants to take on the iPad, the Surface will end up like the HP Touchpad or Playbook or the XOOM. :lol:

i did not waste any money on apple products. i can use it for a year and sell it for $50 less (and still sell like hot cakes). with other windows phones or android phones, i lost $100-$200 within a year.

My bad. All I'm saying is that the Surface Pro is still a tablet. I like the concept of the keyboard, but that price is crazy. At least let the regular Surface also have Windows 8 Pro.

For a minute I thought you said Steve Job and rolling on floor::lmao:

some times i feel how stupid people are when comparing surface pro with apple ipad ... and thinking both are same.. wake up

Actually I was editing the post when you vultures swept in. I'm aware of the i5.

It's not an Atom CPU. It has a full i5 dual core. It also has expandable memory, so 49gb of onboard storage is not all that limiting. Also, you're comparing the Thinkpad 2 to the Surface Pro. You're comparing an Atom SoC with Atom graphics to a dual core i5 with HD4000 graphics, 2gb of low power DDR2 RAM to 4gb of regular DDR3 RAM, 1366x768 screen res to 1920x1080, and you're comparing starting prices of $679 to $799 (with this deal). Sure they're similar in that the form-factor is the same, but the Surface Pro is an ultraportable that doesn't have a keyboard attached. It costs less than an ultraportable/ultrabook with similar specs.

If you don't see a distinction between the Thinkpad 2 and the Surface Pro, then the Surface Pro is obviously not for you. Simple as that.

Uniformed people comparing arm to x86 vs guys who wants to boost their ego by flaunting their "xpert knowledge"

I don't even know what you guys get out of these.

so just buy the keyboard and glue it in place. bam, ultrabook.

I'm finding it really strange that people in here are arguing that they want lower screen resolution and comparing this device to Android / Apple tablets. I mean, it's not a gaming / Youtube device, and the high resolution is essential for productivity. Considering how Apple released a 128gb iPad, I don't really see how Apple fans can deride Microsoft's pricing.

I do think a legitimate beef regarding the cost of the Surface Pro is how expensive the type covers are.

You took the "if you take a closer look" too literally. I meant take a closer look at the numbers, not at the screen :D.

I know very well about the 20/20 vision studies and I actually wrote up my own spreadsheet for those calculations prior to buying a HDTV, but the fact is that when it comes to a tablet form factor, if you are reading documents on your screen you are not even necessarily going to hold the tablet away at 2 feet, and more importantly you can see the pixelation. That is why there is a distinct improvement in the quality of text on an iPad 3/4 v/s the iPad 2. It's plainly obvious for all to see, so I disagree that you gain nothing by moving up from 720p and that there is no visible/real world benefit in doing so.

Having said that, I do agree that 720p on a 10" is still much better than the 14" 720p screens being bandied around by all the Windows laptop manufacturers.

It just shows how pathetic you are throwing around specs of your computer as if it increases the value of your opinion. The iPad is good at what it does. The surface is good at what it does. If you ask a majority of people what they would want, they would say iPad because the Surface is after a niche product market. I for one, liked the concept, especially the keyboard but I am not going to spend close to a $1000 to get around 30GB of usable space.

Not to be overly critical, but you don't seem to understand the hardware. The regular Surface has an ARM processor and can't run x86 applications.

Meh, if you buy a 20" touch smart desktop, and tape a psu to the back hooked to a battery, is it a tablet?

Don't get me wrong, Iam intrigued by the Surface. But there is just no way a company can be sucessful if they price their products higher than Apple. When the Motorola XOOM was announced, it was better than the iPad and I was about to buy it. Apple matched it with the iPad 2 so I bought that instead. If I can get the RT version of the Surface for under $400 with the touch cover, I will buy it or the Pro for around $650ish with the cover.

The magnets are strong enough you seriously wouldn't even need glue lol

Shouldn't you be comparing the Surface Pro with the Air line of laptops and not iPads then?
And I do agree that the Surface RT was overpriced.

If apple didn't improve the screen, they would just be selling slightly faster processor and gpu (in terms a casual apple buyer probably wouldn't understand, ghz etc). I think it was necessary for isheep. I mean even if you look at the macbook pro with retina, just google the commercial. Blatently, just a macbook, as always yanno with retina.....................end. Try that commercial without retina, and you get apple broadcasting a commercial making fun of themselves.

I do. The Surface Pro is aimed directly at the 64GB Macbook Air.


The entry-level Macbook Air has a 1.7Ghz i5, 4GB of ram, 64GB SSD, and USB 3.0. It too has Intel 4000.

Here you are:

http://www.gizmag.com/macbook-air...pictures#1

That's where you're going to have issues. The Surface Pro is not an iPad competitor. It's an ultrabook competitor. Expecting an ultrabook to be priced at $650 is as daft as expecting a Macbook Air to be priced that low.

And expecting the Surface RT to go for $400 with a touch cover is equally daft. Why do you expect the Surface RT to have a keyboard but not the iPad? It's like saying that the Surface RT has to beat the iPad price plus throw in a free $100 peripheral. It just shows you're kind of biased for Apple products.

Wait what? No, this has nothing to do with iSheep. Have you actually used an iPad 2 and an iPad 3 side by side? Reading text (PDFs/Epubs especially) are worlds apart in terms of clarity and crispness. There simply is no argument against it. It has nothing to do with people drinking the Apple kool-aid, it has to do with real world visual benefit. If all you do is play fruit ninja, then it doesn't matter at all. But if you spend hours reading and annotating text on the iPad...the Retina display does have a huge benefit.

Same goes for laptops. A higher resolution screen helps a ton if you are doing productivity stuff on your laptop and if you spend a decent bit of time working on it. On a laptop, more than the PPI benefit, the added vertical screen real estate is what makes the higher resolution more desirable. But once you have a hybrid laptop/tablet, the higher PPI is also definitely a plus when reading text in tablet mode (portrait).

Maybe this makes it easier. Apple Ipad = trying to grab casual computer audience to use a tablet. Windows surface = trying to grab attention of the laptop and portable laptop market. Current casual tablet users + this explanation = still clueless.

Someone check my math.

I have the same beef, but the $100 credit nulls that point. :D

And lol, the same people who say OMG RETINA THIS AND RETINA THAT are saying 1080p is too much. So much lolz and trolls in this thread.

Looks to me like the Surface Pro matches or beats the entry level Air in every category, including price. Add in the additional $100 off from this deal, and it beats the price by $200, and beats the Air in every spec category. And yet you stated that you wanted the Surface Pro priced at $650 to be able to beat it over Apple's offerings, in the same comment you said that everyone needs to beat Apple's pricing to be competitive. I don't quite understand all your contradictory points.

Yes, that struck me as incredibly hypocritical. 13.3 inch with retina is hardly less "overkill" than 1080p on 10.1.

And how much does this model cost?

Except battery life

Thanks for finishing the point I was making to him. :nod:

True that. Missed that one.

If they kept the lower res around at a lower price point, they'd sell better. I mean, apple wont do that anyway so they can keep the price point high. But I think the fact you can't get many ipad 2s when 3 comes out, or 3s when 4 comes out (remember joe schmo looking at best buy) certainly drives the sales of newer gens as well. Basically, consumers must accept the improvements as apposed to agreeing with them if they want an ipad.

finally i saw some one who know what is different between ipad and surface Pro:bounce: .Until now i have ipad ( which i used for mostly taking notes... just want to say i hate to take note with those capacitive stylus ) and macbook pro for real stuff (programing and my work stuff) ..
i got the surface pro on Saturday i liked it soo much ... this one device is doing all things, i would do with ipad and macbook pro.


in home i hooked up my surface to my 23" monitor using mini display port to hdmi(which i got from ebay for 6 dollars).. used a usb hub to connect all my headphones and keyboard and mouse...

Screen rocks and quality of the build ... was not compromised
Surface pro rocks

You must have misread the links on the BOM pricing, or it would be nice to see where you're pulling those price estimates from, assuming you didn't just make them up on the spot. The tech-thoughts.net page estimates that the cost for Surface Pro is $321 more than the RT, which already is agreed by both them and isuppli.com to be slightly under $300.

Further, tech-thoughts.net completely ignore the cost of the integrated Wacom digitizer, which easily adds ~$100 to the price overall, given both the cost of hardware and licensing of the Wacom tech.

Total BOM cost for Surface Pro is probably $500 at the very lowest imaginably possible (it would take some fairly steep discounts from partners), and more likely to be in the $600-$700 range.

That's also ignoring that even though Microsoft themselves are selling this, they are probably internally charging the cost of the Windows 8 software license for accounting purposes (and possibly also for legal purposes). So add on the cost of a bulk sale negotiated OEM license (~$50 at the very lowest? I don't know what their deals with Dell et al are like these days).

The only way that the price for a Surface Pro is likely to drop more than $50-$100 is if MS cancels/EOLs them and needs to clear inventory. Most of the components have very stable pricing or are already at about as cheap as they are going to get. The exception to this may end up being the processor, once intel EOLs it, but then you run into supply issues. The one likely scenario I can envision is that if MS does not cancel the Pro completely (I'm not saying I think they will) and does release a new version when Haswell is available for the likely jump in battery life there, we may see the current models go on clearance at a discount. Assuming there is even any inventory worth doing that to. If MS uses a heavily JITM strategy (possibly evidenced by how fast these went on backorder) then this might not happen, other than maybe B&M stores clearing their individual stocks.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what all this BOM pricing discussion really matters from a consumer perspective, though. Either the product is worth the price for your uses, especially when compared to actually competing products, or it's not.

The Surface Pro is priced and featured more competitively to ultrabooks than anything else, while retaining the tablet form factor, not to mention the active digitizer (pressure sensitive stylus input). For anyone who just wants a media consumption tablet (iPad/etc) replacement, this completely isn't it, and that's also why the Surface RT even exists at all: to compete with that segment.

The Surface Pro is not iPad competitive and was never meant to be: it's meant for people who actually have a need for a full featured PC in a tablet form factor, in addition to people who need a strongly featured active digitizer tablet. There are compromises involved in reaching what the Surface Pro does in the form factor and weight it has, with the performance it has. For some people, their needs will far outweigh those trade offs. I'm not sure it's precisely niche, but it's also not just a media consumption device with some very light ancillary uses the way most of the ARM tablets are.

Given how large the market is for ultrabooks, I'm not sure calling the market for a full featured tablet "niche" is necessarily appropriate, since I think it squarely targets that same market. Of course, the problem that MS faces in terms of marketing is highly one of perception: everyone who thinks that this competes with the iPad is a failure of MS's marketing to present this as competing with ultrabooks while also providing the tablet form factor and ease of use in various environments laptops are less well suited to.

The Surface Pro is not a couch surfer replacement, it's a business and similar use ultrabook in a tablet form factor with tablet portability. I can easily see it being something where you would buy it to augment your iPad/etc rather than to directly replace them, other than times where you only wanted to carry a single, full featured device. It's not being sold to couch surfers who are just pulling up websites and videos, it's being sold to people who need something more when away from their desks, and also want the tablet form factor.

Personally I'm thinking of getting one for work, but also for side hobbies like digital art. I miss my old Dell XT + OneNote, the work flow for both classes and meetings was the best (especially when you had to diagram or mark up someone else's presentation), and having something smaller, weighing only 2 lbs, and with longer battery life would be so nice. I'd still use my TouchPad for things like basic e-reading and around the house browsing. In fact I'd probably use them both together when it was convenient to carry both: I used to do that with my XT when I needed to have reference documents up while working on the XT.

Saying the iPad competes with this is like saying netbooks compete with i7 gaming rigs or ultrabooks. Sure, you can load the web on both. And if the netbook does what you need well enough to make you happy, great. But you wouldn't say that's the case for everyone.

ultrabooks do not have touchscreen.

Yes, I know you're trolling, but since you've come to the party a bit late I'm going to let you in on a secret. It's a 3 to 3.5 pound Ultrabook crossed with a high definition Wacom Cintiq artists tablet/monitor and pressure sensitive stylus.

Except that they've taken those two things and compressed them into a tablet that weighs just under 2 pounds, and gave it the ability to run business apps for 4.5-5.5 hours on a charge. Sure, it's only got 128GB of internal memory but, like the real processor it has, that memory isn't the 20-30MB/s crud you get in most high end tablets (rhymes with sapple) or the 50-90MB/s you get from a high end flash drive or card, but a full 500MB/s SSD.

If you were to simply call it a 2 lb ultra book with an i5, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD, a 1080p IPS 10pt touch and electromagnetic resonance stylus input with 4.5-6 hours normal usage battery life (i.e. not gaming), you'd be hard pressed to match it with any other MSRP ultrabook with those same features or better. In fact, of the diminishingly small market for a 2lb, i5 IPS screen machine for under $1100, none of them will have a pixel-accurate stylus.

I like having higher res. I have a 15.6" laptop at 1080p and it's awesome. I have my 27" 2560x1440 which is equally awesome. Having a larger workspace is always nice, considering you can always scale it to make things appear larger when you need to.

I <3 my pixels.

Ever run a Mac Air with Windows? 262 minutes - 'bout the same, maybe a bit worse than the Surface. (http://www.zdnet.com/the-other-hi...000000906/ )

touchscreen with the add-on keyboard?
if your device does not have build in keyboard, it's called touchpad. it does not belong to ultrabook.

touchpad vs ipad, clear comparison.
ultrabook (with built in keyboard) vs surface? doesn't make sense.

The Surface Pro should be priced at $650. While it may be making a move at the ultrabook market, it is still a tablet. It is a weird hybrid piece of technology. I expect the RT to go for $400 because of its OS. Windows RT lacks two areas. First of all demand. Samsung scrapped plans on a Windows RT tablet. They showcased one when the Surface launched but Samsung said "poor demand". Another aspect is apps. I believe there are something like 25,000 apps for Windows RT Tablets.


You are comparing an on sale product to one at full price. ON sale you can get a macbook for $800. But I will admit that the Pro is $100 cheaper. I still want the Pro to be around $650 because it is a tablet-laptop hybrid. It is not a DEDICATED laptop. It is the same as taking an iPad and slapping on a keyboard....

$1000 MSRP or $800 on sale usually.

touchpad? did you steal that term from HP?

btw, feel free to glue the keyboard in place.

well, those poor things dont even have the name, so i have to come up with something touch + pad. do you have any better name for those?

i can just called my wife to bring me over my ipad. but i always have problem telling her to bring me any other touching devices. we can't have a universal name for it?

No, it's not the same thing.

Still waiting for it. If I used my 20" touchsmart desktop with a battery attached to the back that it plugs into and no keyboard, then its a tablet right?

Hahahah .. you seriously dont get it. Its not even close.

Not a [marketing term]Ultrabook[/marketing term], so it must be a tablet. If you would show me which bin the tablets running a full desktop operating system are, I'll be on my way.

You must expect to get your SSD drives cheaper than regular hard drives, because it doesn't have any spinning components - so it's not really a hard drive. You can store the same information with pencil and paper on a non-spinning medium, and you only pay a couple of cents for a 3x3 post it note...why would you pay more for a 256GB SSD that's only 2.5"?

Lets go through this again....................intel vs arm...............yawn.

Hey - the only two things keeping me from a Surface are the SSD size and dragging my feet to see if that Panasonic 20" 4k "tablet" gets a street date.

Yes some do

Nah the new i3 processors have HD4000 graphics too. I just bought one.

why not? maybe you dont even know what a defination of a tablet is.

in sum. this surface tablet is to compete with ipad.
ultrabooks are on different category.

$1000 for this tablet is too expensive. win8 tablets will fail the same as i predicted on win8 OS failure on the other thread.

For example:

Sony VAIO T Series Touch
ThinkPad X1 Carbon Touch

I'm sure there are many others too...

not without a built in keyboard?

a touchscreen device without a built-in keyboard should be listed under tablet. it does not even belong to any lapbook/notebook/ultrabook/anybook category.

Nevermind, you are right. Microsoft launched $1000 tablets to compete with $500 ipads. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Its not worth it on this forum anymore.................if you can't wrap your head around arm vs intel architecture then google it. Serious, cuz people just lead other people to stupidity, not my intention of posting this deal. Thats why I didn't meantion ipads but I knew it would happen.

Completely wrong. It is the EXACT SAME internal specs as most ultrabooks.

It has NOTHING to do with the iPad

....it sold out

Which $1000 tablet that Microsoft makes has an ARM type processor?

If all you want to do is surf the web and play angry birds, then yes, you can compare the Surface to the Ipad. If you want to rip blu rays, use Microsoft Onenote, or convert movies with handbrake to watch on your ipad, then there is no comparison.

yup. for that much of money, i will go with ipad.

you put a honda car engine to a boat and call it a car?

I always saw the Surface as a tablet replacement and the Surface Pro as an ultrabook replacement. I purchased the Asus VIVO Tab RT and actually like it a lot with exception being that there aren't enough Metro apps and IE10 sucks. I don't personally want desktops apps in my WinRT device. I just want better Metro apps like the kinds I would find on my iPad. I'm amazed how reviewers seem to want to classify the Surface as a notebook replacement when I never saw it that way.

Now the Surface Pro I could care less unless it was round the same price as the regular Surface. At the current selling price, I would rather have a larger screen Ultrabook. I can't imagine myself doing real work with the small screen and the Intel HD 4000 is not ideal for professional content creation applications.

My post was in sarcasm, what are you actually asking me? Post was to say its obvious slapping a 3rd gen intel i5 already takes them out of the $500 ipad market. And the architecture of tablets without intel chips does not support the versatility to run the majority of programs out there like a w7 desktop would. But to answer your question if you did not detect the sarcasm, microsoft has arm based tablets at $500 not $1000.

I watch MKV and AVI on my ipad just fine...

Having said that - I wish I didnt already have a desktop, iPad, and work laptop as I would love to just have a Surface Pro couples with a USB 3.0 Docking Station for home use.

That's how I picture the Surface Pro really being awesome - Im just surprised Microsoft isnt releasing a docking station to have this be used as a desktop at home (although there are 3rd party solutions like Targus).

[QUOTE=microkelvin;57535478]yup. for that much of money, i will go with ipad.[QUOTE]

Someday when you understand, return to this forum to laugh at yourself.

That has zero relevancy to this situation.

This is an ultrabook, not an ARM based tablet. Simple as that. You can "go with an ipad" all you want. You will be getting WAY less functionality than the surface.

I guess I missed your sarcasm and thought you were serious. I know lots of people think that Apple invented the tablet but obviously that's wrong.


BTW to other people:
People on Fleabay are selling Core 2 Duo based tablets for $250 used. If someone buys one with two batteries , they will get around 5 hours of battery life (depending on OS).

right on. $1000 for this tablet is just a dumb price.

iPads are made for kids or people who don't need to do actual work.

Even a Core 2 Duo tablet ( weighs a massive 4- 5 pounds :) ) from a few years ago beats the iPad in practicality .

I'm going to use the logic of some people on this forum.

"Surface should be priced no more than 250 bucks .. I mean those tablets on ebay are the same thing .. tablets ... Microsoft is way out of line pricing this anything more than 250 bucks!"

cheaper than wacom cintiq, pretty much can install anything windows 7 software (better than ipad or any ios or android tablet), better resolution than most ultrabook.

So you agree that the Surface Pro should be compared to a Macbook Air which costs $1000 MSRP or $800 on sale. But you think the Surface Pro should be priced at $650? Do you think the Macbook Air overpriced?

I'm mentioning an alternative.

Of course I don't expect a modern brand new tablet ( with a 3rd gen Core i5) to be $250.

A Core 2 Duo system is fast enough ( with an SSD) to perform tablet type tasks ( like writing or using a touchscreen).

Exactly, people need to stop comparing the battery life of browsing/surfing/email/Fruit Ninja on an iPad vs Surface Pro. It's much closer to an ultrabook with a touchscreen than an simple tablet.

In sum you are wrong.

You have no clue as to who this tablet is marketed to. You obviously don't know what an ultrabook is and your "prediction" on W8 is being proven wrong day after day.

I know you are .. granted a very underpowered alternative ..

Just pointing out that some people like to compare completely different things and think they should be priced the same because they are around the same size .. as if that was the only determining factor

k, play nice or ignore please

Correct. However the OS and current hardware was not ready for it. Apple did an excellent job, but yes it was no their IDEA. However, first to the punch with one the public is ready for. And a good job at it and keeping prices high. Still, some people who don't get it just compare ipads without intel to intel based surface tabs. If MS wanted to compete, a 3rd gen i5 would probably make it impossible.....................but people comparing it to ipad go on. And don't forget to answer your own questions. Self would I buy this in comparison to an ipad. Self, no I would not, too much money. Self, I agree. MS never intended that question...................people confused with their market talk to themselves and ask themselves though.

The Core 2 Duo was a legendary line from Intel a long time ago.

The upper end ones ( the ones you see left) are fast enough for basic stuff.

4-5 pounds is probably too much for a kid or someone who has to hold a tablet for hours straight so I see your point though.

If you put wheels on and it and able to drive xD


surface pro can run all windows 7 software and do what tablet does plus more :P

You never know, people who need programs that run from windows may take this guy's advice and shut down their systems. Stop using the programs and stop buying hardware, cuz w8 yanno doesn't sit well with them. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I will say bringing back the start menu will be a good choice for MS, but moving forward people really don't have a choice. Many businesses will keep w7 systems longer because of any scare, but really nothings happened besides some b****ing.

This isn't competing with the iPad, which has 2-3x the battery life, puts out much less heat, and weighs significantly less than the Surface. The iPad is a real tablet and is a much better device to take on-the-go.

Surface Pro is competing with Windows ultrabooks and the MacBook Air. Unfortunately, it doesn't fare too well in this category either, because most ultrabook buyers actually want a fully functional keyboard built in to get work done, and almost all ultrabooks get much better battery life and are designed with better heatsinks to dissipate the heat from their Ivy Bridge chips. Surface Pro is essentially hamstrung by trying to be a laptop in a tablet form factor, and does neither well.

*insert immature play on Microsoft's name to imply they design crappy products. Oh, right, doing that makes you look like a moron...

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That's why when you do "real" work you dock it. Output the video to your 25" monitor and use a full size BT keyboard/mouse.

The covers are there for when you need to get some work done and can't dock your device. They work about a million times better than on screen typing on a tablet.

I don't think you finished your thought there ... "The iPad is a real tablet and is a much better device to take on-the-go if all you want to do is play Angry Birds and update your Pinterest account. If you want to be able to get work done on the go, play real games, or seriously consume media (outside of the iTunes ecosystem) then the Surface Pro is your better bet.

Feel free to update your original post with the correction :)

could someone tell me some hardwares that microsoft did so well besides the xbox?
i can come up with at least 5 microsoft hardwares that just died on arrival.

You just called the iPad a real tablet?
Are tablets just toys now?

I remember using tablets for work years ago. Wacom based tablets tend to be very easy to write on.

Catch you in a few years when your apple stock is worthless because the company can't handle competition because of the way they cling to their proprietary business model.

They've fallen twice in history and will fall again.

You mean the X4 , X6 keyboards ?

The Microsoft Optical mouse?

Edit: next post

Tablets ( some of them) are great for notetaking :)

In fact, if you try to run games on an iPad, the battery life drops to barely 5 hours. And as a bonus, charging a flat iPad takes 5 hours (I know, I have three), whereas the surface will take a full charge in an hour. That's actually a pretty big plus for me. There are also external batteries out there that weigh less than half a pound that will extend the Surface life to 10-12 hours of hard computing, so it's not like there won't be options for those long work days in Starbucks when you can't get a table next to an outlet. :cool:

maybe you did not read the newest article that microsoft blamed on vendors for poor win8 sales?

people have downgraded to win7 for a reason.

iPads are still toys like Xbox 360s and PS3s.

Spoken like a person who has never used one....

The RT will take off as the windows store begins to grow, which is inevitable now that windows 8 will be on peoples PC's over time whether they like it or not.

The Pro will only get better as other manufacturers drive innovation.

Oh what's that, apple has no other manufacturers? ... that will be the iPad downfall.. it's been true in the past and will be again in the future.

The interface on the windows 8 tablets is far superior to the iPad and portability is the key and prices will start to come down rapidly.

The beauty of the Windows 8 tablets is that manufacturers can target audiences, all on their own... some people may not want a I5 .. others may want a bigger or smaller screen, some may want something else... it will all be available.. whatever way the market sends it.

Correct, downgraded meaning they bought a w8 device. You really miss the point of...........everything. Yanno the "don't have a choice" ugh nevermind.................so mindless. People on this forum are truly trying to help you dude, you just don't understand.......................I dunno how else to approach you, cuz I'm assuming you wont understand, you'll think its "debatable". I mean ugh, well there are $1000 windows tablets and $500 windows rt tablets. One runs like a desktop pc/laptop with intel (having intel is important, been devd for decades). The other has a marktplace for content, like ipad, same price point as ipad, not intel like ipad. Which do you think competes with ipad, the $500 rt or the $1000 windows 8????? Please please let this one get through LOL.

Anyone else that gets it, I think I've dumbed it down as much as possible, I don't know if it can get simpler for him.

Holy crap. I knew most people were dumb when it came to technology... I just didn't realize the extent of it. This thread opened my eyes.

This is to the point of absolute retardation. I don't know how else to put it.

Anyway, I have stuff to do, so I'll let this thread run it's course and check back for lols after I'm off work.

the RT has it's own freaking app store. well, it's all one app store, but it needs apps that are made for it.
it's going to be hard to gain traction with such a limited user base.

Some people buy Apple laptops since they think think don't get viruses as well.


Some of us actually make viruses so we know that's just a big lie.

Lots of people are sheep now especially and good marketing makes it worse.


I need to learn how to market a product so I should learn from Apple.

not about those accessories. i am talking about real piece of hardware, like microsoft cordless phone, webtv, ...

lol yea, that's what happens when Crapple is allowed to have such a huge marketing campaign. People are too dumb to know better.

1. Official reports are that Windows 8 is selling better than any other MS OS to date. Of course, that implies that W8 absolutely trounces any OTHER OS period. Sorry if it isn't selling up to YOUR standards but it's doing just fine from an industry perspective.

2. I still have a work laptop that is XP. It's a 2 year old ThinkPad that came pre-loaded with 7. It was downgraded. Since my company supports XP, Vista, and 7 I have one of each for testing. The downgrade wasn't because XP is superior to 7 - it's due to the technology environment I am in (Fortune 15 company).

As for other people downgrading ... power to them. Whenever a new version of Windows rolls out people complain. Go back and read the articles around Windows XP. People HATED IT. Now it's 12 years later and we can't pry it out of their dead cold hands. Windows 7 is a terrific OS so I can completely understand change averse people not wanting to upgrade. Their loss. Eventually they will need to join everyone else as the Modern UI isn't going anywhere. Until then enjoy a fine OS in Windows 7.

Thank you for this much needed post. I was going to make such a post until I read this. I'm bumping it for others to read through. People completely discount the active Wacom digitizer in the Surface Pro, which IMO, gives it a large amount of value, and is why I will be purchasing one.

To put some perspective on the pricing, the starter 10" Cintiqs run for $1000, which is the price of 128GB Surface Pro, and doesn't have the portability or the screen quality of the Surface Pro. Don't forget the newly released iPad 128GB that costs $800, which is vastly underpowered compared to the Surface Pro. Also to those calling for a $650 price tag, that is completely and utterly unreasonable given the BOM of $600-700. If the iPad pricing was $500 for 16GB, $550 for 32GB, $600 for 64GB, and $650 for 128GB, then I might entertain a $650 Surface Pro as reasonable. Otherwise, $1000 isn't unreasonable given costs and build quality.

Regarding battery life, using Anandtech battery times, the Surface Pro clocks in at 6hrs compared to the Macbook Air 11's 5.5hrs. The Surface Pro is for all extents and purposes, a Macbook Air in tablet form, with an active digitizer. The Surface Pro is not for everyone. If you ask yourself why Microsoft used an i5, or why it's priced at $1000, or why not get an Android tablet or iPad, then the Surface Pro is not for you.

I think the issue is one of marketing.

It's really stupid that Microsoft labeled one product the Surface and the other the Surface Pro. I know I was confusing the Pro as the Windows RT w/ Atom version, before I realized that it had a heftier CPU and OS and potentially expandability.

That being said, 3 hours of battery life really sucks, and makes it a non-starter for me until they at least get to 5 and preferably 6 hours. And granted it may be a limitation of the OS, but wasn't that made by Microsoft, in the first place?

ED: Oops, looks like the Surface RT also has expandibility, so it looks like the only difference is a heftier CPU and OS.....