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-   -   Blackberry Z10 unlocked $630 (http://slickdeals.net/f/5885640-blackberry-z10-unlocked-630)

jjmai 03-03-2013 12:51 AM

Blackberry Z10 unlocked $630
 
Blackberry Z10 Unlocked Smartphone with 8 MP Camera, 4.2" Display, 16GB Memory, and 4G LTE

http://1saleaday.com/flash/blackberry-z10/
may need to log in to see the deal.
Not sure if a good deal. I know it's not an android or iphone, but someone probably wants to give it a try.


$629.99 + Free shipping

Product Info

The BlackBerry Z10 is loaded with the features you expect from a smartphone. Video and images look amazing on the 4.2” touch screen which has a high definition resolution of 1280 by 768. The 16GB internal memory can be expanded thanks to the microSD card slot.

Take pictures and chat with family and friends thanks to the dual front and rear cameras with 2MP and 8MP respectively. The apps you need to get through the day like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube are preloaded on this phone! Expect up to 10 hours of talk time and up to 13 days of standby time on a fully loaded battery.
Specs

Condition: New
Packaging: Retail
Warranty: 1 Year
Manufacturer BlackBerry
Model: BlackBerry Z10

Features Include:

16GB internal memory
4.2” touchscreen display with 1280 x 768 HD resolution
8 MP rear camera for stunning images with 1080p recording
4G LTE connection
MicroSD memory card
Up to 10 hours of talk time
BlackBerry 10 operating system
Touchscreen keyboard learns how to write
Camera with time shift mode creates the perfect shot by moving parts of your pictures back and forth in time
BBM video with Screen Share lets you catch up face-to-face and share what’s on your screen

Package Includes:
Blackberry Z10 Unlocked Smartphone and User’s Manual

*Please allow up to 7-10 days for your order to ship.

lengygf 03-03-2013 12:58 AM

anybody who are willing to pay $630 for a blackberry phone seriously need a brainwash

stangnation305 03-03-2013 01:05 AM

Blackberry...LOL! :rofl2:

spocks1 03-03-2013 01:05 AM

The Z10 reviews have been fantastic.

rsveteran 03-03-2013 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lengygf (Post 57951170)
anybody who are willing to pay $630 for a blackberry phone seriously need a brainwash

Anybody comparing this new blackberry to previous blackberries needs a more thorough "brainwash."

Anyone looking to buy this, make sure you get the right model of Z10 for US networks. I'm not registered so I can't see which one is for sale, but there are 5 variants:

RFG81UW: HSPA+ only for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFH121LW: Not for North America. You don't want to buy this for use here.

RFK121LW: HSPA+ and LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network.

RFF91LW: LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network. HSPA+ compatible for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFA91LW: Verizon variant. LTE and 3G.

mattspalace 03-03-2013 01:10 AM

I have no idea how RIM stays in business. This phone wouldn't tempt me at half the price. :shake:

stangnation305 03-03-2013 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattspalace (Post 57951306)
I have no idea how RIM stays in business. This phone wouldn't tempt me at half the price. :shake:


:iagree:

jjmai 03-03-2013 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsveteran (Post 57951302)
Anybody comparing this new blackberry to previous blackberries needs a more thorough "brainwash."

Anyone looking to buy this, make sure you get the right model of Z10 for US networks. I'm not registered so I can't see which one is for sale, but there are 5 variants:

RFG81UW: HSPA+ only for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFH121LW: Not for North America. You don't want to buy this for use here.

RFK121LW: HSPA+ and LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network.

RFF91LW: LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network. HSPA+ compatible for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFA91LW: Verizon variant. LTE and 3G.

Thanks for the info.
Too bad 1saleaday doesn't specify the exact model number.

tungvbn 03-03-2013 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsveteran (Post 57951302)
Anybody comparing this new blackberry to previous blackberries needs a more thorough "brainwash."

Anyone looking to buy this, make sure you get the right model of Z10 for US networks. I'm not registered so I can't see which one is for sale, but there are 5 variants:

RFG81UW: HSPA+ only for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFH121LW: Not for North America. You don't want to buy this for use here.

RFK121LW: HSPA+ and LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network.

RFF91LW: LTE capable on AT&T and the soon to be unveiled T-Mobile network. HSPA+ compatible for all AT&T markets and some T-Mobile markets.

RFA91LW: Verizon variant. LTE and 3G.

Why don't you put the money at your mouth? Show us your current phone or your next phone that you willing to spend $600 for blackberry.

Smh ..

iggypop123 03-03-2013 02:06 AM

the new blackberry may not be crap anymore but this price is ridiculous. especially given how you can get a nexus 4 like half.

GhostDog 03-03-2013 02:13 AM

Why would anyone pay that much for a phone?!

ferganer 03-03-2013 02:21 AM

$630 for a phone with middle-of-the-road specs and many major apps lacking and with most existent apps being Android ports?

No, thank you.

I'll wait till it gets down to $200-250ish. At that price, it wouldn't too bad.

carloo 03-03-2013 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattspalace (Post 57951306)
I have no idea how RIM stays in business. This phone wouldn't tempt me at half the price. :shake:

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangnation305 (Post 57951404)
:iagree:

You must me iPhone users, right?

cho.eecs 03-03-2013 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lengygf (Post 57951170)
anybody who are willing to pay $630 for a blackberry phone seriously need a brainwash

Or it should be the other way around... Anybody who are willing to pay $630 for a blackberry phone must have been seriously brainwashed...

madrascaldavid 03-03-2013 03:01 AM

I've played with this phone hands on and it runs really smooth and looks really sleek. This price might be a little high, but not that much more than the T-Mobile unsubsidised price customers on a value plan will be paying at the end of March when it's released (probably $599.99 - $50MIR). I think most people have already written Blackberry off in favor of other OS's but I think those that give it a try will be really happy with it. I'm anxious to see how it does.

mattspalace 03-03-2013 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carloo (Post 57952022)
You must me iPhone users, right?

I don't carry a smartphone.

scrid2000 03-03-2013 06:58 AM

Anyone who disagrees that this is an amazing phone has no clue what's going on.
Do yourself a favor and try one once carriers start demoing them.

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 07:45 AM

Anybody is buying this? Sorry, yall talking, not walking...So, no one is buying this? WTH....Is is free shipping, HDMI or no HDMI?

aznhero913 03-03-2013 07:52 AM

Wake me when this is $100 in a few months and BB is begging people to buy these...

Cdub100 03-03-2013 07:54 AM

Blackberry is all but dead. Maybe if this phone was released a year and a half ago BB would have a fighting chance. But the ship has sailed and the consumer market has moved on to Android, Apple and even Windows...

vtc268 03-03-2013 08:01 AM

funny thing is, anything can happen. Apple was "dead" once. What if blackberry got its act together and regained their former glory?...nah

abnormally 03-03-2013 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekkenLord (Post 57953820)
Anybody is buying this? Sorry, yall talking, not walking...So, no one is buying this? WTH....Is is free shipping, HDMI or no HDMI?

my friend bought this from Europe / Amazon for $700, with mini HDMI port

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrid2000 (Post 57953290)
Anyone who disagrees that this is an amazing phone has no clue what's going on.
Do yourself a favor and try one once carriers start demoing them.

+1. Using is believing. This phone is phenomenal and the best I've ever used. I own one, and after playing with mine for a couple of weeks, my wife bought one too. The OS is amazing, especially considering it is basically version 1.0. It's going to be great to see what it evolves into.

I realize that paying full unsubsidized price for a phone isn't for everyone, but for those who do and want this phone, this is the current best price in the U.S..

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abnormally (Post 57954072)
my friend bought this from Europe / Amazon for $700, with mini HDMI port

Thank you..I guess $630 is good deal...I'll buy this for my grandma...

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954212)
Blackberry......lol.....dead

The smartphone train has sailed and Blackberry missed the boat......

LOL, I am not sure what you mean? Did Blackberry miss the boat or the train? Should I buy this phone? It has mini HDMI and only $630 + shipping.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954292)
The z10 sales have been abysmal.....

Not in places where it has actually been released by the carriers...

DrRad 03-03-2013 08:24 AM

heh, this thread is filled with people who are probably paying $800+ for their phone on-contract that they only use to browse the web. This is actually a good price for a brand new phone for someone that wants a BB.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekkenLord (Post 57954254)
LOL, I am not sure what you mean? Did Blackberry miss the boat or the train? Should I buy this phone? It has mini HDMI and only $630 + shipping.

This deal is free shipping.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954446)
Hey Mr blackberry insider...care to share the secret sale figures that you have unique access to?

Oh and sellout does not mean good sales. Most shops in UK only had 15 phones.......lol

Sure. Though I'm definitely not a BlackBerry insider. Just a satisfied Z10 customer.


Retailer says BlackBerry Z10 outselling iPhone 5, Galaxy 3 in Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/te...le9022139/

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954534)
Heres a good summary by CNET UK


The BlackBerry Z10 is a poor choice for most smart phone buyers, as it offers few extra features over rival high-end smart phones, but is just as expensive. The Z10 isn't a bad phone by any stretch of the imagination -- it offers a pleasant design, an interesting interface and great built-in photo and video editing. At this price, however, it's simply not good value.

You already quoted that in a post on the last page. Stop spamming the thread

iSneaky 03-03-2013 08:39 AM

Who wants a crapberry?

Hawk2007 03-03-2013 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostDog (Post 57951898)
Why would anyone pay that much for a phone?!



Most smartphones retail for that..... it's just that 90% of people don't see the price because they only account for the OOP costs and not the monthly price of the bill. Except, most Americans get a big fat 'F' in finance yet can tell you who Kanye West and Chris Brown are dating on any given.

Do you really think it costs the carriers anywhere close to $30+ a month to deliver internet/data to your phone? Do you really think it costs anywhere close to deliver SMS messages to your phone compared to what they charge?

SMS pricing may be even a bigger racket than printer cartridge ink.

nextbond 03-03-2013 08:41 AM

In order to use the new BB's in the enterprise, you need new infrastructure - that brings the question, why would Fortune 500 invest in new BB infrastructure to support this phone unless RIM gives it to them for free.

A slick interface and OS is as useful as the # of apps available for it - we'll see how many app developers jump on the bandwagon and maintain their apps on it.

kg21 03-03-2013 08:41 AM

Can't believe people are actually trying to justify this z10 at this ridiculous price. At 200-300 off contract from a legit store I could see some people buying it, but not 630 from 1 sale a day. There is nothing notable about this product at all in terms of hardware or software. If you are a blackberry fan then it makes sense as a fanboy product. For the non-insane people it has relatively few apps, outdated software, and middle of the road specs.

gdimarco 03-03-2013 08:44 AM

Check Ebay, people is paying $1000 for this phone.

Go to an Apple store and buy a unlocked Iphone 5, it will be $720 with tax.

Decent price for the z10 phone.

sfo_giants 03-03-2013 08:51 AM

I personally think it is good price myself having paid $780 on ebay

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954684)
TRY getting your facts right...the iphone is $649+ tax

Oh and idiots paying this price on ebay does not make this slick unless you are suggesting flipping it. In which case YOu will make a nice loss

This phone sells on Ebay for around $700... Just because you saw a stupid listing for $1000 is irrelevant. CHECK THE COMPLETED SALES.

the price is for non-LTE one, also the prices came down this week a little because US carriers will start selling it in another 2 weeks from now

Camelhmpz 03-03-2013 09:05 AM

Great new blackberry, but a slow shipping seller, I would suggest waiting for the US carrier release coming anytime now in March. I can't wait to get my new Z10 and finally go back to a BB.

rsveteran 03-03-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tungvbn (Post 57951814)
Why don't you put the money at your mouth? Show us your current phone or your next phone that you willing to spend $600 for blackberry.

Smh ..

Can you quote the part where I said it's a good price? No? Then go work on your comprehension skills before you post again.

I wouldn't plunk down $630 for the following reasons:

1. From posts subsequent to mine, it appears that this seller does not specify the exact model they're selling

2. US release is only weeks away. I can wait. They'll probably ship around the same time anyways.

3. I have an upgrade available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madrascaldavid (Post 57952086)
I've played with this phone hands on and it runs really smooth and looks really sleek. This price might be a little high, but not that much more than the T-Mobile unsubsidised price customers on a value plan will be paying at the end of March when it's released (probably $599.99 - $50MIR). I think most people have already written Blackberry off in favor of other OS's but I think those that give it a try will be really happy with it. I'm anxious to see how it does.

You're a TMO manager, right? Any idea if WiFi calling will be coming? Or when the phone will be released?

mattspalace 03-03-2013 09:31 AM

Slow shipper is very true. It took 1Saleaday two weeks to ship my Thinkpad, which is unacceptable.

I'm not buying anything from them again.

I figure it's a big seller in Canada because RIM/Blackberry is a Canadian company..

cpxx1228 03-03-2013 09:57 AM

Another hard year for RIM and Crapberry.

stangnation305 03-03-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carloo (Post 57952022)
You must me iPhone users, right?

i'm a cell phone user, and anything is better than RIM.

Cozz 03-03-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tungvbn (Post 57951814)
Why don't you put the money at your mouth? Show us your current phone or your next phone that you willing to spend $600 for blackberry.

Smh ..


I'll gladly take on your bet.

I have 2 phones. Both Blackberry and one running Z10 OS on an Alpha device.

Cozz 03-03-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangnation305 (Post 57956364)
i'm a cell phone user, and anything is better than RIM.


WOW, a lot of people are ignorant around here. How about using it first then opening up your trap?

I've been running it for several months and it kicks Iphones ass all day. It has the best phone browser on the planet. Multitasking like nothing else in the market....but yet, you think your opinion is worth something.

Cozz 03-03-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954212)
Blackberry......lol.....dead

The smartphone train has sailed and Blackberry missed the boat......

Wait for the firesale people.......

http://www.zdnet.com/blackberry-l...000011777/


Funny how its all the noobs defending this phone......


This looks to be wrong. How can they say they sold 300K units when the phone was released a week or so before the article was written in India?

The whole article stinks really, it's not even based on any hard core facts, is it?

Soulbox 03-03-2013 11:15 AM

Well, I read each and every comment.. But at the end I think blackberry are done, this wanna be high end phone, in a ridicules expensive price was a bigger mistake then Nokia did when decided to go with windows OS instead of android. RIM should have done their best to offer this phone at low cost as possible in order to come back to the game and put their foot back at the door but they didn't. Big Mistake from a company that all most fall apart not long time ago.
So now a few fans will argue, but at the end of the day the answer is simple, this phone will be half the price sale in few months from now.

As per 1sale, dailysteal, and same sites. The reason for these long shipping is because they are not actually holding stock, they are waiting to see how many orders they will get first. By the time they getting the goods to the warehouse and shipping it to the customer they have all ready used your money to pay for other things. Also if you will ask why the delay you will always get the same stupid answers they had a small delay (every time) Hate this sites, doing the best I can not to buy from them unless its a really really good deal

- sent by iPhone App Deals & Steals 3.5.8 -

toromac 03-03-2013 11:23 AM

Too little, too late. Ecosystem is everything now. If you don't have enough optimized apps, then you have nothing. Apple and Android run the show. Windows phone picks up the scraps. There's nothing left for blackberry. It will die a slow death or will eventually be bought by a bigger fish.

kfunk7 03-03-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdimarco (Post 57954628)
Check Ebay, people is paying $1000 for this phone.

Go to an Apple store and buy a unlocked Iphone 5, it will be $720 with tax.

Decent price for the z10 phone.

People are not paying $1k for this phone on ebay, they are being sold for around $700+ if they are lucky

mikebpi 03-03-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57956528)
WOW, a lot of people are ignorant around here. How about using it first then opening up your trap?

I've been running it for several months and it kicks Iphones ass all day. It has the best phone browser on the planet. Multitasking like nothing else in the market....but yet, you think your opinion is worth something.

The Z10 got a 1700+ sunspider score. The iPhone 5 gets sub 900ms.

The Z10 browser is a complete dog compared to mobile safari. You are either a troll or ignorant.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toromac (Post 57957566)
Too little, too late. Ecosystem is everything now. If you don't have enough optimized apps, then you have nothing. Apple and Android run the show. Windows phone picks up the scraps. There's nothing left for blackberry. It will die a slow death or will eventually be bought by a bigger fish.

I think BlackBerry 10 will beat Windows Phone 8 for third place, on a worldwide basis.

As for apps, that takes time. One smart thing that BB did is make their mobile browser the best and fastest out there. Many popular apps (banking, airlines, travel, etc.) are just optimized versions of mobile websites. The browser on the Z10 loads these mobile sites (and the various pages on the sites) as fast or faster than apps other platforms. Eventually, as more and more mobile OSes arrive (Firefox, Ubuntu, Tizen would put us at 7+), I think it's going to be more about HTML5 sites that can be used on any device and less about OS-specific apps. Without apps to differentiate it, everything will be down to the quality of the OS itself, not necessarily the ecosystem/apps on it. If this happens, BB will be in good shape.

As for people complaining about the price... yes, it's a high price but that's not indicative of what the carriers will be charging. This site is just trying to capitalize on the fact that the phone isn't widely available in America, so for people who want it now this is a good alternative to buying an imported phone from eBay at the marked up prices that it's been going for. This is definitely intended for a small niche. When the carriers launch it later in the month we'll see how things go.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57957750)
The Z10 got a 1700+ sunspider score. The iPhone 5 gets sub 900ms.

The Z10 browser is a complete dog compared to mobile safari. You are either a troll or ignorant.

Sunspider?

If we're comparing specific benchmarks like that, the Z10 browser scored 496 on Html5Test, and the iOS 6 browser scored 395 (higher is better on that test).

I've used both, and in my experience the Z10 browser is much faster in everyday use.

Cozz 03-03-2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57957750)
The Z10 got a 1700+ sunspider score. The iPhone 5 gets sub 900ms.

The Z10 browser is a complete dog compared to mobile safari. You are either a troll or ignorant.

No I'm a certified Android and Blackberry developer. Why do you ask? BlackBerry has the best os right now. Its that simple. It has great security and the best of multitasking. Ios doesn't even come close. Its very limited.

cluedweasel 03-03-2013 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57958020)
No I'm a certified Android and Blackberry developer. Why do you ask? BlackBerry has the best os right now. Its that simple. It has great security and the best of multitasking. Ios doesn't even come close. Its very limited.

Is this one using QNX? Does it use Neutrino as the GUI or something different?

Cozz 03-03-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cluedweasel (Post 57958060)
Is this one using QNX? Does it use Neutrino as the GUI or something different?

Yes its all qnx. Just like the qnx used in nasa and the mars rovers or a Bentley navigation system.

gdimarco 03-03-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfunk7 (Post 57957616)
People are not paying $1k for this phone on ebay, they are being sold for around $700+ if they are lucky


Now they are selling for $700.

Check the sold items:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281061765...1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150992188...1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160970698...1438.l2649

mikebpi 03-03-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc_molineux (Post 57957878)
Sunspider?

If we're comparing specific benchmarks like that, the Z10 browser scored 496 on Html5Test, and the iOS 6 browser scored 395 (higher is better on that test).

I've used both, and in my experience the Z10 browser is much faster in everyday use.

HTML5Test isn't a benchmark, it is a subjective score based on subjective weighting of standards that aren't even all officially HTML5.

Sunspider is actually a benchmark that determines performance, and the Z10 is a dog. It is worse than the year-and-a-half old iPhone 4S.

gdimarco 03-03-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laphroaigh (Post 57954684)
TRY getting your facts right...the iphone is $649+ tax

Oh and idiots paying this price on ebay does not make this slick unless you are suggesting flipping it. In which case YOu will make a nice loss

This phone sells on Ebay for around $700... Just because you saw a stupid listing for $1000 is irrelevant. CHECK THE COMPLETED SALES.

Check the sold items:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281061765...1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150992188...1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160970698...1438.l2649

mikebpi 03-03-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57958020)
No I'm a certified Android and Blackberry developer. Why do you ask? BlackBerry has the best os right now. Its that simple. It has great security and the best of multitasking. Ios doesn't even come close. Its very limited.

What 'certification' do you have? I make iOS and Android apps for a living, and none of the other developers at my company are 'certified'. You don't need a certificate to write code, publish to a store, and make cash.

Security? With the Department of Defense adopting iOS and Android I would say they are plenty secure.

nikecmh 03-03-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spocks1 (Post 57951248)
The Z10 reviews have been fantastic.

If only it were 2007 all over again.........

cashville619 03-03-2013 12:17 PM

Rim's Business Plan...

1. Government
2. Big Businesses

Both of them overpay for everything.

Cozz 03-03-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958370)
HTML5Test isn't a benchmark, it is a subjective score based on subjective weighting of standards that aren't even all officially HTML5.

Sunspider is actually a benchmark that determines performance, and the Z10 is a dog. It is worse than the year-and-a-half old iPhone 4S.

Well that's a lie. The 4s rendering of many objects is very slow in html5. I can't believe you actually came up with that crap. Its complete lie. Only certain android based machines can keep up with the z10 in html5. Ios isn't all up there in hmtl5. That's why it needs apps, because the browser doesn't support crap.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spocks1 (Post 57951248)
The Z10 reviews have been fantastic.

Yep, fantastic.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligen...ulogy.html

mikebpi 03-03-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57958574)
Well that's a lie. The 4s rendering of many objects is very slow in html5. I can't believe you actually came up with that crap. Its complete lie. Only certain android based machines can keep up with the z10 in html5. Ios isn't all up there in hmtl5. That's why it needs apps, because the browser doesn't support crap.

Dude you are clueless. Only Android can keep up with the Z10? The iPhone 5 obliterates both.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../49988.png

This is what the Blackberry Z10 scores.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/02/...der-specs/

Well below the iPhone 4S. The Blackberry Z10 browser is garbage.

Cozz 03-03-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958420)
What 'certification' do you have? I make iOS and Android apps for a living, and none of the other developers at my company are 'certified'. You don't need a certificate to write code, publish to a store, and make cash.

Security? With the Department of Defense adopting iOS and Android I would say they are plenty secure.

Lucky for you that you don't need any certifications at all. That's somewhat odd of a business. I even needed Microsoft msce certification though I never used it in real life. Ios is prone to hacking. It isn't safe...period. Also, I think andriod can only be used in the government so long as there's no app store. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also ICE decided to hold off for the bb10 after they said they were headed to ios. Maybe I wrong I that too.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958370)
Sunspider is actually a benchmark that determines performance, and the Z10 is a dog. It is worse than the year-and-a-half old iPhone 4S.

I see that the screenshot says Javascript. Is that a test of how well it runs Java? (Genuine question, I don't know).

If it's a benchmark of overall browser speed, I'm honestly really surprised. For my purposes and everyday activities, I find the Z10 browser to be much faster.

Cozz 03-03-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958778)
Dude you are clueless. Only Android can keep up with the Z10? The iPhone 5 obliterates both.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../49988.png

This is what the Blackberry Z10 scores.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/02/...der-specs/

Well below the iPhone 4S. The Blackberry Z10 browser is garbage.

In pretty sure my own z10 did beat that image. Do you have the date of the image?.its hard to see. I don't think its a bb10 OS.it may be an early alpha OS. But the image date can proove it.

cuilister 03-03-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madrascaldavid (Post 57952086)
I've played with this phone hands on and it runs really smooth and looks really sleek. This price might be a little high, but not that much more than the T-Mobile unsubsidised price customers on a value plan will be paying at the end of March when it's released (probably $599.99 - $50MIR). I think most people have already written Blackberry off in favor of other OS's but I think those that give it a try will be really happy with it. I'm anxious to see how it does.

:disagree:

mikebpi 03-03-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc_molineux (Post 57958974)
I see that the screenshot says Javascript. Is that a test of how well it runs Java? (Genuine question, I don't know).

If it's a benchmark of overall browser speed, I'm honestly really surprised. For my purposes and everyday activities, I find the Z10 browser to be much faster.

Sunspider is a combination of rendering engine speed (how fast HTML objects are painted) and JavaScript performance.

Sunspider has nothing to do with Java.

The iPhone 4S and the Z10 are close enough that to the naked eye they may seem similar. Next to an iPhone 5 the difference is night and day.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57959032)
Sunspider is a combination of rendering engine speed (how fast HTML objects are painted) and JavaScript performance.

Sunspider has nothing to do with Java.

The iPhone 4S and the Z10 are close enough that to the naked eye they may seem similar. Next to an iPhone 5 the difference is night and day.

No, I was comparing to an iPhone 5. But yes, obviously my results aren't scientific.

Cozz 03-03-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc_molineux (Post 57959100)
No, I was comparing to an iPhone 5. But yes, obviously my results aren't scientific.



Good point. The picture is dated September 2012 from what I can tell from the picture data. So almost six months of tweaking would have occurred after that.

If its from 2012 then its not bb10. Simple. Its from alpha unit. The thing is they had more than one browser under development. The air browser is better by far.

Cozz 03-03-2013 12:53 PM

ill personally test the site when I get home.I have personally tested all the bb10 os's availabe. It will be much higher than on that picture.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57959210)
If its from 2012 then its not bb10. Simple. Its from alpha unit. The thing is they had more than one browser under development. The air browser is better by far.

No, I was wrong, that was my mistake. The 2012 picture was of the iPhone results, not the BB10 one. I deleted my erroneous post.

blufetish 03-03-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattspalace (Post 57951306)
I have no idea how RIM stays in business. This phone wouldn't tempt me at half the price. :shake:

RIM? Get up to the times before trying to pass smart comments. Blackberry have the best customer service by far and I would buy from them any day. You're probably one of those proud Americans who refuses to drive domestic brand.

xveganrox 03-03-2013 12:59 PM

I'll wait until the firesale in a few months and pick one up for $100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57958858)
Ios is prone to hacking. It isn't safe...period.

And... Credibility lost, lol.

dsides 03-03-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958778)
Dude you are clueless. Only Android can keep up with the Z10? The iPhone 5 obliterates both.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../49988.png

This is what the Blackberry Z10 scores.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/02/...der-specs/

Well below the iPhone 4S. The Blackberry Z10 browser is garbage.

Sunspider doesn't mean anything, and it's a useless benchmark. I receive a lower score on Chrome beta with my Nexus 7, and SGS3, and the Nexus 4 is visibly faster at rendering webpages.

ferganer 03-03-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blufetish (Post 57959322)
RIM? Get up to the times before trying to pass smart comments. Blackberry have the best customer service by far and I would buy from them any day. You're probably one of those proud Americans who refuses to drive domestic brand.

Blackberry have the best customer service? How so? You can walk in to one of the 5 BBRY stores nationwide and get help or exchange your phone? Or can you get a replacement phone even if your warranty period is up and that won't cost you $630?

To me, BBRY has customer service comparable to other major manufacturers.

If you mean support in terms of OS and product support, then BBRY's slogans are "Coming Soon", "In 60 days", "By the end of the summer", "In Q3 2012", "Shortly after BB10 is announced", "90% of major apps will be available on launch day", etc.

Cozz 03-03-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc_molineux (Post 57959310)
No, I was wrong, that was my mistake. The 2012 picture was of the iPhone results, not the BB10 one. I deleted my erroneous post.

My alpha a device was 1650-1700 at sunspyder. And you can go to sites like crackberry for proof. The official should be even higher.

soobaerodude 03-03-2013 01:04 PM

<cough>... astroturphing...<cough>

mattspalace 03-03-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blufetish (Post 57959322)
RIM? Get up to the times before trying to pass smart comments. Blackberry have the best customer service by far and I would buy from them any day. You're probably one of those proud Americans who refuses to drive domestic brand.

Uh, RIM is Blackberry - they just decided to drop the RIM name.

And actually, I'm an American who lives in Germany and drives an Audi and a BMW.

You should go buy the deal then and quit running your mouth.

mrbobhcrhs 03-03-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57958420)
Security? With the Department of Defense adopting iOS and Android I would say they are plenty secure.

In the DOD there is a different levels and devices have to be tested before they are allowed to be used. Just because they willing to allow IOS and Android does not mean they will ever make it on the approved products list. It takes a lot of money and time for a device to go though testing and I don't think apple is up to it.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soobaerodude (Post 57959546)
<cough>... astroturphing...<cough>

The pro-BlackBerry commenters, or the anti ones?

sd_sd_sd 03-03-2013 01:07 PM

Being an old blackerry lover, I would like to try this.
But, at $600+, no way. Am happy with my Android.

dzap 03-03-2013 01:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattspalace (Post 57959570)
uh, rim is blackberry - they just decided to drop the rim name.

And actually, i'm an american who lives in germany and drives an audi and a bmw.

You should go buy the deal then and quit running your mouth.

Attachment 1820820

mikebpi 03-03-2013 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57959294)
ill personally test the site when I get home.I have personally tested all the bb10 os's availabe. It will be much higher than on that picture.

You will probably see in the ballpark of the 1700ms, which is around the iPhone 4S, Nexus 4, and the SGS3. All well short of the 900ms iPhone 5 and 1300ms LG OptimusG, the current browser kings of smartphones..

Cozz 03-03-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57959780)
You will probably see in the ballpark of the 1700ms, which is around the iPhone 4S, Nexus 4, and the SGS3. All well short of the 900ms iPhone 5 and 1300ms LG OptimusG, the current browser kings of smartphones..

Why isn't there a single BlackBerry on the list?

Namelessme 03-03-2013 01:37 PM

I have a Dev Alpha ... it's rather nice overall.

Yet I don't think any phone is worth $600+, even Apple phones.

I always find it strange when people bash other products without ever owning them. It's like tech tribalism, which carries over to gaming consoles (especially consoles), pcs, etc. Anyway, if you are happy with android or ios, there is no need to switch. BB10 is more for current or former Blackberry people who want to upgrade to something decent, yet prefer Blackberry over alternatives.

For those wondering how they stay in business, last time I checked their financial situation they had over a billion in the bank and no debt. There is money to be made by going after 3rd place in the mobile market ... they don't have to overtake android or ios.

dsides 03-03-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57959780)
You will probably see in the ballpark of the 1700ms, which is around the iPhone 4S, Nexus 4, and the SGS3. All well short of the 900ms iPhone 5 and 1300ms LG OptimusG, the current browser kings of smartphones..

Once again, the Sunspider benchmark isn't indicative of actual hardware performance. The Optimus G, and Nexus 4 use the same exact SoC, yet there is a huge disparity between the results.

It's not a good benchmark when previous generation hardware Tegra 3 (Nexus 7) and a Snapdragon S4 MSM8960 (US Galaxy S 3), score lower than current generation hardware APQ8064 (Nexus 4.)

A better benchmark to use would be Mozilla's Kraken.

I just ran these Kraken tests using Chrome Beta.

Nexus 4: 17786.4ms

Nexus 7: 23340ms

SGS3: 20609ms

It's also clear to me that the Nexus 4 renders pages faster than the other aforementioned devices.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namelessme (Post 57960216)
I have a Dev Alpha ... it's rather nice overall.

Yet I don't think any phone is worth $600+, even Apple phones.

I always find it strange when people bash other products without ever owning them. It's like tech tribalism, which carries over to gaming consoles (especially consoles), pcs, etc. Anyway, if you are happy with android or ios, there is no need to switch. BB10 is more for current or former Blackberry people who want to upgrade to something decent, yet prefer Blackberry over alternatives.

For those wondering how they stay in business, last time I checked their financial situation they had over a billion in the bank and no debt. There is money to be made by going after 3rd place in the mobile market ... they don't have to overtake android or ios.

http://www.marketwatch.com/invest...testimates

Check out the "Year Ago Earnings" and "Next Fiscal Year Estimate".

They are going from making $4.50/share/year to a projected loss of $.50/share for the year.

They *used* to be a profitable company with no debt.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57960402)
Once again, the Sunspider benchmark isn't indicative of actual hardware performance. The Optimus G, and Nexus 4 use the same exact SoC, yet there is a huge disparity between the results.

As has been widely reported, the Nexus 4 cannot dissipate heat. It is a poorly engineered device that only performs similar to a OptimusG when in a freezer.

Look at the benchmarks comparing the Nexus 4 in a freezer and out compared to other devices.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51539.png

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57960424)
http://www.marketwatch.com/invest...testimates

Check out the "Year Ago Earnings" and "Next Fiscal Year Estimate".

They are going from making $4.50/share/year to a projected loss of $.50/share for the year.

They *used* to be a profitable company with no debt.

He didn't say they were profitable. Just that they have cash in the bank and no debt. They definitely have not had a profitable year though... until the Z10 they hadn't had a flagship phone in over a year, and in that time only put out a handful of low-end phones.

To use a sports analogy, they had a rebuilding year. Too early to say if that rebuild will be successful.

dsides 03-03-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57960510)
As has been widely reported, the Nexus 4 cannot dissipate heat. It is a poorly engineered device that only performs similar to a OptimusG when in a freezer.

Look at the benchmarks comparing the Nexus 4 in a freezer and out compared to other devices.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51539.png

I actually own the device, it never gets hot, and there is no thermal throttling.

It doesn't matter what game I'm playing.

Look at the Egypt HD off-screen tests [glbenchmark.com]. If people were having problems, these results wouldn't be that high, and there would be a huge outcry on XDA. It's literally a non-existent problem.

The Nexus 7 benchmarks nearly the same as my Nexus 4 in triangle throughput, yet lags with certain games. With the Nexus 4, there is no lag. The only tests that showcase actual real world performance are the Egypt HD off-screen tests, and the Nexus 4 beats the iPhone 5 in all of them.

Funny how you trash a device you don't own, and have probably never used.

gameson 03-03-2013 02:25 PM

I would love to buy BB X10 for the fact that now you can use BBM without any data plan, EVER, as long as you are on wifi. Old BB phones require BIS connection to make the phone function as it should, but this one will work right off the bat. However, I would buy it only at $3-400 range, $600+ is too much.

Just wait for few months for the new to wear off. Remember Playbook? Wait until summer and it will go for $3-400 range all day long

mikebpi 03-03-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57960938)
I actually own the device, it never gets hot, and there is no thermal throttling.

It doesn't matter what game I'm playing.

Look at the Egypt HD off-screen tests [glbenchmark.com]. If people were having problems, these results wouldn't be that high, and there would be a huge outcry on XDA. It's literally a non-existent problem.

The Nexus 7 benchmarks nearly the same as my Nexus 4 in triangle throughput, yet lags with certain games. With the Nexus 4, there is no lag. The only tests that showcase actual real world performance are the Egypt HD off-screen tests, and the Nexus 4 beats the iPhone 5 in all of them.

Funny how you trash a device you don't own, and have probably never used.

No thermal throttling?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/644...4-review/3

"I've re-run everything and can confirm obviously that there was thermal throttling going on affecting some of the results, and have included the new results wherever there was a deviation from previous "

Also here is your Egypt HD off-screen chart.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51546.png

Notice the difference between the freezer number and the non-freezer number?

The GLBenchmark site shows the top numbers for each device. Anandtech is responsible for the top numbers on the site due to their freezer tests. You linked specifically to the top scores rather than average scores, a rookie mistake.

And also I own a half dozen Nexus 4s for testing my Android games. I know all of the limitations of this device. LG did a poor job.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameson (Post 57961066)
I would love to buy BB X10 for the fact that now you can use BBM without any data plan, EVER, as long as you are on wifi. Old BB phones require BIS connection to make the phone function as it should, but this one will work right off the bat. However, I would buy it only at $3-400 range, $600+ is too much.

Just wait for few months for the new to wear off. Remember Playbook? Wait until summer and it will go for $3-400 range all day long

It might even be sooner than that. It launched at $550 CAD at some carriers in Canada. This "deal" isn't necessarily an indication of what the carriers will sell it for, even off-contract. This company is just trying to make some money from those who don't want to wait.

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mc_molineux (Post 57961178)
It might even be sooner than that. It launched at $550 CAD at some carriers in Canada. This "deal" isn't necessarily an indication of what the carriers will sell it for, even off-contract. This company is just trying to make some money from those who don't want to wait.

Thanks, I almost pulled the trigger for my grandma... dang OP, why? It is not even a sales price...

Cozz 03-03-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57960424)
http://www.marketwatch.com/invest...testimates

Check out the "Year Ago Earnings" and "Next Fiscal Year Estimate".

They are going from making $4.50/share/year to a projected loss of $.50/share for the year.

They *used* to be a profitable company with no debt.

They're still making money with tons of money on hand with no debt. The stock does not relate to how the company is doing but what the investors think the company will do short term and long term.

You shouldn't bring up stocks for any argument such as this. The fact is if you bought BRRY last summer... you would be making money right now. If you bought Apple shares at the same time last year...you'd be losing money right now. Stocks prices prove nothing here.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57961668)
They're still making money with tons of money on hand with no debt. The stock does not relate to how the company is doing but what the investors think the company will do short term and long term.

You shouldn't bring up stocks for any argument such as this. The fact is if you bought BRRY last summer... you would be making money right now. If you bought Apple shares at the same time last year...you'd be losing money right now. Stocks prices prove nothing here.

I don't think you understand this conversation.

BBRY is not making money. They lost money last quarter, they are projected to lose money next quarter, and they are projected to lose money next year. They are also projected to lose money the year after that.

No one was talking about stock price.

http://www.marketwatch.com/invest...testimates

You see how they have a mean estimate of negative EPS? You see how they have a negative EPS right now?

That means they are losing money. They are not a profitable company.

Cozz 03-03-2013 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57961822)
I don't think you understand this conversation.

BBRY is not making money. They lost money last quarter, they are projected to lose money next quarter, and they are projected to lose money next year. They are also projected to lose money the year after that.

No one was talking about stock price.

http://www.marketwatch.com/invest...testimates

You see how they have a mean estimate of negative EPS? You see how they have a negative EPS right now?

That means they are losing money. They are not a profitable company.

I really don't care about estimates.

dsides 03-03-2013 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57961142)
No thermal throttling?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/644...4-review/3

"I've re-run everything and can confirm obviously that there was thermal throttling going on affecting some of the results, and have included the new results wherever there was a deviation from previous "

Also here is your Egypt HD off-screen chart.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51546.png

Notice the difference between the freezer number and the non-freezer number?

The GLBenchmark site shows the top numbers for each device. Anandtech is responsible for the top numbers on the site due to their freezer tests. You linked specifically to the top scores rather than average scores, a rookie mistake.

And also I own a half dozen Nexus 4s for testing my Android games. I know all of the limitations of this device. LG did a poor job.

Anandtech is not responsible for the top results. By the way, you linked me to the Egypt Classic results on Anandtech, not the Egypt HD results.

The top result for the GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Offscreen (1080p):

GLBenchmark website: (89.1 fps) [glbenchmark.com]

Anandtech's top freezer result: [anandtech.com] (77.3 fps)

My result, while sitting at my desk: (78 fps) [imgur.com]

The top result for the GLBenchmark 2.5 Egypt HD C24Z16 - Offscreen (1080p):

GLBenchmark website: (33.7 fps)

Anandtech's top freezer result: (30.5 fps)

My result: (31 fps) The device doesn't even get warm.

Once again, there would be a HUGE outcry on XDA if you were right, and you're simply not. You would see tons of threads about heat issues, and you don't. The problems back in November were kernel related, and have been fixed.

BestDealer83 03-03-2013 03:12 PM

Almost every phone that gets released has a price of $600-$800 dollars in the first few weeks, and slowly they drop the prices - but I must admit - this has been the quickest price drop for a newly released phone - which is a good thing for us customers. Just a couple of days ago when this Z10 was released it $699 from one seller on ebay, then he lowered to $659 the same day, now its $619 from 1saleaday.
Like some one said - I wouldnt pay $600 - $500, and ill add to that that I wont even pay $400 for a smartphone, $350 max is what I would have paid 1-2 years ago - but this year - $200-$300 is the max since you got phones floating around with tegra 3 processors for $220 on newegg by a company called "BLU" which I heard of before - but never tried, seemed interesting - and I might have bought it if I would have needed a phone right now - but since Im not in a rush - Im gonna wait.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57961874)
I really don't care about estimates.

You said they were a profitable company now, which is completely untrue.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/201...m-reports/

"RIM beats street by losing less than expected in Q3 with EPS of -$0.22, revenue of $2.7B"

They lost less money than expected, which has helped their stock price in the near term. But they aren't profitable, and a 2 second Google search will tell you that.

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 03:22 PM

So, how should I buy it if I've never held it in my hand to test it? Dang,...I can't justify dropping $600 some to throw of of the window..

Cozz 03-03-2013 03:24 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57959780)
You will probably see in the ballpark of the 1700ms, which is around the iPhone 4S, Nexus 4, and the SGS3. All well short of the 900ms iPhone 5 and 1300ms LG OptimusG, the current browser kings of smartphones..

I did it and I was able to break in the 1545 but just once. Mostly 1550s after and the highest 1580s. The higher #'s were mostly running as a desktop browser setting.

After looking to the log, something fishy is going on here. I have a feeling you can make this test go a lot faster on any mobile browser if you simply program it to automatically load the next available set without being asked for them on the test, this wipes out the waiting period. Which can save almost a third of the time....

I can't prove it and I might get flamed for it but I think that's how Apple is getting away with it.

I'm running a new beta OS with the same web browser as the standard OS. The side tags are always on.

Cozz 03-03-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57961986)
You said they were a profitable company now, which is completely untrue.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/201...m-reports/

"RIM beats street by losing less than expected in Q3 with EPS of -$0.22, revenue of $2.7B"

They lost less money than expected, which has helped their stock price in the near term. But they aren't profitable, and a 2 second Google search will tell you that.

Because you're talking about it's transition point. Of course there's money going out the window. It's the transition. And if you like to see before the investment...they were profitable. Even a year after any new phone was released (2010/2011?), they were still profitable with 79 million users world wide.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57961884)

Once again, there would be a HUGE outcry on XDA if you were right, and you're simply not. You would see tons of threads about heat issues, and you don't. The problems back in November were kernel related, and have been fixed.

Unreal how you don't even know how to read your own links.

GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Offscreen (1080p)
Nexus 4 average is 62.5 FPS
Nexus 4 top is 89.1 FPS
iPhone 5 average is 91.1 FPS
iPhone 5 top is 91.7

You see how the iPhone 5 average and iPhone 5 top are so close? The device is well engineered and isn't thermal throttled.

The Nexus 4 has drastically different results from an individual test (which won't have time to get warm) rather than doing the entire suite of tests back to back.

Anandtech themselves said the device is thermal throttled.

"The Nexus 4 has newer drivers that don't crash during a full GLBenchmark 2.5 run but as a result run the device long enough for thermal throttling to kick in. "

dsides 03-03-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57962080)
I did it and I was able to break in the 1545 but just once. Mostly 1550s after and the highest 1580s. The higher #'s were mostly running as a desktop browser setting.

After looking to the log, something fishy is going on here. I have a feeling you can make this test go a lot faster on any mobile browser if you simply program it to automatically load the next available set without being asked for them on the test, this wipes out the waiting period. Which can save almost a third of the time....

I can't prove it and I might get flamed for it but I think that's how Apple is getting away with it.

I'm running a new beta OS with the same web browser as the standard OS. The side tags are always on.

Sunspider is a test that relies on software optimizations. It's not a good test. This gets brought up almost every time a device is reviewed in the comment section on Anandtech.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cozz (Post 57962080)
I did it and I was able to break in the 1545 but just once. Mostly 1550s after and the highest 1580s. The higher #'s were mostly running as a desktop browser setting.

After looking to the log, something fishy is going on here. I have a feeling you can make this test go a lot faster on any mobile browser if you simply program it to automatically load the next available set without being asked for them on the test, this wipes out the waiting period. Which can save almost a third of the time....

I can't prove it and I might get flamed for it but I think that's how Apple is getting away with it.

I'm running a new beta OS with the same web browser as the standard OS. The side tags are always on.

Trust me, Apple isn't 'cheating' the benchmarks. The A6 SoC is a monster.

It is good news that BBRY was able to improve their browser with a software update, however. 1580 is still pretty slow, but an improvement.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57962276)
Sunspider is a test that relies on software optimizations. It's not a good test. This gets brought up almost every time a device is reviewed in the comment section on Anandtech.

Tell me why the iPhone 4S gets around a 1700 number, in-line with the Nexus4/Z10, but the iPhone 5 gets 900 with the same software, iOS6.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Until you can dual boot iOS/Android on one device, you are locked in with a hardware/software combo. If you could actually change the software than the 'software optimization' argument might matter.

TekkenLord 03-03-2013 03:44 PM

Hey kids,are we gunna write about iOS vs android all niuate long? Where the heck is BlackBerry z10 benchmarks to justify buying it?

Cozz 03-03-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57962312)
Trust me, Apple isn't 'cheating' the benchmarks. The A6 SoC is a monster.

It is good news that BBRY was able to improve their browser with a software update, however. 1580 is still pretty slow, but an improvement.

I just realized it's an Apple website.

If the hardware mattered much, HTML5 would be pretty high on IOS but it isn't.

Hardware alone doesn't explain it.

lammcspicy 03-03-2013 03:56 PM

2 things.

1. Its now Blackberry and not RIM
2. Blackberry is still a better phone for business than the iphone. Yes, it might have no where as many app but its a better device for email .

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangnation305 (Post 57951404)
:iagree:


DarkFox002 03-03-2013 04:02 PM

Going off a few numbers based on bench marks means nothing, not sure why that never sinks in.

The Windows phone can beat the iPhone 5 in Sunspider and I'm sure that it will be back and forth for most high end phones, but this really doesn't mean anything when it comes down to using the phone and the functions it has.

"The Nokia Lumia 920 scored 945.1ms, which is excellent. For example our Apple iPhone 5 scores 1089.1ms, which is actually slower than this! Microsoft has obviously worked on Internet Explorer’s javascript performance because the 920’s SunSpider scores are very fast"

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2086/4/

I am happy with my Galaxy Nexus and its not winning any benchmarks right now. As for the BB10 I would think about checking it out on T-Mobile if it had Wi-Fi calling and was in the $300-400 range.
BB has always had a high price tag on there phones even the low end. The new Nexus 4 would have some high sales numbers if they didn't botch the launch. The GSIII did great because it had a big everywhere launch not to long after it was announced, in my opinion.

Cozz 03-03-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFox002 (Post 57962722)
Going off a few numbers based on bench marks means nothing, not sure why that never sinks in.

The Windows phone can beat the iPhone 5 in Sunspider and I'm sure that it will be back and forth for most high end phones, but this really doesn't mean anything when it comes down to using the phone and the functions it has.

"The Nokia Lumia 920 scored 945.1ms, which is excellent. For example our Apple iPhone 5 scores 1089.1ms, which is actually slower than this! Microsoft has obviously worked on Internet Explorer’s javascript performance because the 920’s SunSpider scores are very fast"

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2086/4/

I am happy with my Galaxy Nexus and its not winning any benchmarks right now. As for the BB10 I would think about checking it out on T-Mobile if it had Wi-Fi calling and was in the $300-400 range.
BB has always had a high price tag on there phones even the low end. The new Nexus 4 would have some high sales numbers if they didn't botch the launch. The GSIII did great because it had a big everywhere launch not to long after it was announced, in my opinion.

How was it a botched launch? It's the first time hearing of it.

dsides 03-03-2013 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57962150)
Unreal how you don't even know how to read your own links.

GLBenchmark 2.1 Egypt Classic - Offscreen (1080p)
Nexus 4 average is 62.5 FPS
Nexus 4 top is 89.1 FPS
iPhone 5 average is 91.1 FPS
iPhone 5 top is 91.7

You see how the iPhone 5 average and iPhone 5 top are so close? The device is well engineered and isn't thermal throttled.

The Nexus 4 has drastically different results from an individual test (which won't have time to get warm) rather than doing the entire suite of tests back to back.

Anandtech themselves said the device is thermal throttled.

"The Nexus 4 has newer drivers that don't crash during a full GLBenchmark 2.5 run but as a result run the device long enough for thermal throttling to kick in. "

I understand the difference between average and top. I'm showing you my experience with the device. You've completely changed your argument from "Anandtech set the top result", which they didn't, to you can't interpret results.

I ran all tests GLBenchmark supports, including the onscreen tests, and the results are roughly the same. Once again, no heat is being generated, and the device barely gets warm. This is the same experience I have when I play games like GTA III, and Virtua Tennis for a long time.

You keep quoting the Egypt Classic off-screen benchmark because it's the only one that the iPhone has a large advantage on.

Egypt HD C24Z16 - Offscreen:

iPhone 5 (average): 28.6 fps
N4 (average): 26.4 fps
My N4 (all tests): 27 fps

Egypt HD Fixed Timestep - Offscreen:

iPhone 5 (average): 23 fps
N4 (average): 21.2 fps
My N4 (all tests): 27 fps

Egypt Classic:
iPhone 5 (average): 91.1 fps
N4 (average): 62.5 fps
My N4 (all tests): 78 fps


Not bad for a device that's less than half the price of an iPhone 5.

dsides 03-03-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57962386)
Tell me why the iPhone 4S gets around a 1700 number, in-line with the Nexus4/Z10, but the iPhone 5 gets 900 with the same software, iOS6.

Doesn't really matter anyway. Until you can dual boot iOS/Android on one device, you are locked in with a hardware/software combo. If you could actually change the software than the 'software optimization' argument might matter.

On iOS 5, the 4s had a roughly a 2200ms time. With iOS 6, it's around 1750ms. Apple didn't send you updated hardware OTA, they sent you a software update.

On Android, there is a huge variation in Sunspider times from browser to browser. Firefox Beta runs Sunspider in 1102ms, but in my opinion the AOSP browser, and Chome beta browser are faster.

It's very clear to me that you're a huge Apple fanboy. I own a 4s, and the Nexus 4 runs circles around it, especially when you compare Safari with the AOSP browser, or Chome beta. The update from iOS 5 to iOS 6 introduced lower Sunspider scores, and overall a more sluggish UX.

My Tegra 3 based tablet scores a 1413ms in Chrome beta, and my Nexus 4 scores a 1459ms. The Nexus 4 is noticeably faster. The test is useless.

hood_rep 03-03-2013 04:31 PM

Seems like there are a lot of ppl are hating on the new Z10 without having even tried or seen the product.

I've heard a lot of positive comments from developer friends who have the Dev Alpha. Looks like BB has come up with a decent product. Most technical reviews have been favorable (nytimes and forbes are wellknown for their pro iOS reviews).The new BB10 OS had the most number of apps for a new platform at launch. The browser is very fast and well optimized for html5.

I'm very curious and will check out the Z10 when it comes out in US. The iOS feels really dated and Android is unstable and unsecure. I can see why some ppl can be so passionate about their iPhones because Apple is a giant marketing machine.

mikebpi 03-03-2013 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57963172)

It's very clear to me that you're a huge Apple fanboy. I own a 4s, and the Nexus 4 runs circles around it

I develop just as many apps for Android as iOS. I am biased as a developer because it is cheaper and easier to develop for iOS due to the fragmentation of Android. I actually enjoy writing Java much more than OC to be honest.

That isn't fanboyism, that is profit margin.

But anyways the iPhone 4S performance and Nexus 4 performance are so close that you have to be completely biased to say one "runs circles around" the other.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51535.png
Nexus 4 is 8% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51539.png
iPhone 4S is 47% faster than the Nexus 4.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51541.png
Nexus 4 is 20% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51546.png
Nexus 4 is 18% faster.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51291.png
The iPhone 4S browser is 7.5% faster than the Nexus 4.


The iPhone 4S holds its own vs a device that is a year and a half newer, and actually wins many benchmarks.

las2ams 03-03-2013 05:14 PM

I'm amazed at the amount of pettiness in this thread. Few people purchasing a phone could careless about which headset is marginally faster. The question should be 'what does the Z10 offer to convince those in the market for a high-end smartphone to purchase it over established competition such as the iPhone and Galaxy?' Some recent articles have suggested the Microsoft has realized that no matter how good its product is, status quo it's not going to successful compete against established players at the top of the market, therefore it's pursing a strategy of promoting & pricing its product against lesser-capable Android devices -- and having some success internationally.

sfo_giants 03-03-2013 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57963284)
Seems like there are a lot of ppl are hating on the new Z10 without having even tried or seen the product.

I've heard a lot of positive comments from developer friends who have the Dev Alpha. Looks like BB has come up with a decent product. Most technical reviews have been favorable (nytimes and forbes are wellknown for their pro iOS reviews).The new BB10 OS had the most number of apps for a new platform at launch. The browser is very fast and well optimized for html5.

I'm very curious and will check out the Z10 when it comes out in US. The iOS feels really dated and Android is unstable and unsecure. I can see why some ppl can be so passionate about their iPhones because Apple is a giant marketing machine.

It makes no sense to argue with those kind of people, but once you use it for week it is difficult to let go the hang of it, I own a S3 as well, in-spite of very little apps I keeping coming back to Z10. Z10 has taken over as a primary phone..I esp love the form factor and the OS is damn smart(the UX and small bits and pieces that everyone loves and which make a blackberry a blackberry), and OS is smooth and functional. Third party developers can work wonders on this phone and I already see a lot of highly regarded third party games pour in.

throwaway9503 03-03-2013 05:17 PM

Lol, who would buy this dinosaur era shit

lemkeant 03-03-2013 05:18 PM

I own some Blackberry Jan '14 puts, so please nobody buy this and let it fail. My bank account will thank you :)

Namelessme 03-03-2013 05:45 PM

I see people are still being petty and arguing over a phone they don't even own. Humans are really insane...

I see people arguing if Blackberry is profitable or not this quarter. Who cares? Unless you have stock -- and if this was a finance/stock thread -- how does that matter? Other people say Blackberry is ancient, dinosaur era, etc. -- yet they haven't used BB10, and I expect they barely even know what it is.
I actually sometimes wonder if a lot of the negative comments about Blackberry are due to people with stock puts -- otherwise I have a hard time understanding why people behave the way they do.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if you are a Blackberry person, then you will be interested in BB10 -- but probably best to wait until you get a deal with a carrier. The Q10 looks rather interesting, especially for keyboard people (getting a Dev Alpha C in soon-ish, so will see how that one is myself). People arguing over benchmarks or if Blackberry is making money this quarter/year, are just silly.

alreadyposted 03-03-2013 05:49 PM

do they make one without the camera? at my work place we requires one without camera.

dsides 03-03-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57963472)
I develop just as many apps for Android as iOS. I am biased as a developer because it is cheaper and easier to develop for iOS due to the fragmentation of Android. I actually enjoy writing Java much more than OC to be honest.

That isn't fanboyism, that is profit margin.

But anyways the iPhone 4S performance and Nexus 4 performance are so close that you have to be completely biased to say one "runs circles around" the other.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51535.png
Nexus 4 is 8% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51539.png
iPhone 4S is 47% faster than the Nexus 4.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51541.png
Nexus 4 is 20% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51546.png
Nexus 4 is 18% faster.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51291.png
The iPhone 4S browser is 7.5% faster than the Nexus 4.


The iPhone 4S holds its own vs a device that is a year and a half newer, and actually wins many benchmarks.

Ugh, I'm done responding to you. You're accusing me of being bias, while being extremely bias. I own both devices, buddy. The Nexus 4 is a much more powerful device. Once again, Sunspider is a useless benchmark, and the GLBenchmark tests posted by Anandtech are completely irrelevant at this point in time.

After looking at your post history, I can see that every single one of your comments is anti-Android, so arguing with you is a waste of time. My iPhone 4s is sitting in a drawer at work, so I can't post direct comparisons.

My "poorly engineered" N4 beats the iPhone 5 in every benchmark except for your precious Sunspider benchmark.

Here is the source for the iPhone benchmarks. [anandtech.com]

Here are screenshots from my Nexus 4. [imgur.com]

Sunspider:

iPhone 4s: 1750ms
iPhone 5: 908ms
Nexus 4: 1381ms

Kraken:

iPhone 4s: 42366.3ms
iPhone 5: 19618.6ms
Nexus 4: 17931.8ms

Octane V1:

iPhone 4s: 757
iPhone 5: 1672
Nexus 4: 1766

V8 Benchmark ver. 7:

iPhone 4s: 718
iPhone 5: 1533
Nexus 4: 1626

BrowserMark 2.0:

iPhone 4s: (Couldn't find a browsermark 2.0 benchmark)
iPhone 5: 2319 [youtube.com]
Nexus 4: 2324

RIABench Javascript Focus Tests:

iPhone 4s: 5369ms
iPhone 5: 2457ms
Nexus 4: 2417ms

Regarding the GPU. We've already gone over this, you're cherry picking results that benefit your opinion. PowerVR chips are fast, and that's a fact, but you honestly cannot sit here and say that Adreno 320 is not a powerful contender to the SGX543. The Nexus 4 handles every game in the Play store admirably, and that's the goal, right?

mikebpi 03-03-2013 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsides (Post 57965386)

The Nexus 4 handles every game in the Play store admirably, and that's the goal, right?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/0...-4-review/

"When we played Need for Speed: Most Wanted, an even more graphically intensive game, we saw a few frame skips and stutters throughout each level we played. These issues didn't interrupt the flow of the game, but they were still noticeable."

Little lag and a few interrupts may be considered 'admirably', however if you are buying your phone with a 2-year window you want to be future proofed.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfo_giants (Post 57964114)
It makes no sense to argue with those kind of people, but once you use it for week it is difficult to let go the hang of it, I own a S3 as well, in-spite of very little apps I keeping coming back to Z10. Z10 has taken over as a primary phone..I esp love the form factor and the OS is damn smart(the UX and small bits and pieces that everyone loves and which make a blackberry a blackberry), and OS is smooth and functional. Third party developers can work wonders on this phone and I already see a lot of highly regarded third party games pour in.

+1. As I posted a few pages back, using is believing with this phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alreadyposted (Post 57964648)
do they make one without the camera? at my work place we requires one without camera.

Not yet.

keldysh2325 03-03-2013 07:14 PM

prefer Z10 than IP5

sd_sd_sd 03-03-2013 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebpi (Post 57963472)
I develop just as many apps for Android as iOS. I am biased as a developer because it is cheaper and easier to develop for iOS due to the fragmentation of Android. I actually enjoy writing Java much more than OC to be honest.

That isn't fanboyism, that is profit margin.

But anyways the iPhone 4S performance and Nexus 4 performance are so close that you have to be completely biased to say one "runs circles around" the other.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51535.png
Nexus 4 is 8% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51539.png
iPhone 4S is 47% faster than the Nexus 4.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51541.png
Nexus 4 is 20% faster than the 4S.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51546.png
Nexus 4 is 18% faster.

http://images.anandtech.com/graph.../51291.png
The iPhone 4S browser is 7.5% faster than the Nexus 4.


The iPhone 4S holds its own vs a device that is a year and a half newer, and actually wins many benchmarks.

I don't know what these benchmarks mean to common people (end consumers), but my Nexus 4 beats all my friend's iphone 4S and 5 in many aspects.

1. Siri sucks big time over google's voice results
2. GPS on nexus rocks
3. It only costs me $300 K with no ATT, Verizon behind my money
4. Updates to my device never breaks Exchange support :P
5. OS updates are only around 50 MB compared 800 MB ios updates (are you kidding)

Few areas where iphone 5 (not the 4S) is better
1. 4G LTE
2. Looks better (beauty in the eyes of beholder)
3. Angry Birds loads faster :lol:

hood_rep 03-03-2013 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfo_giants (Post 57964114)
It makes no sense to argue with those kind of people, but once you use it for week it is difficult to let go the hang of it, I own a S3 as well, in-spite of very little apps I keeping coming back to Z10. Z10 has taken over as a primary phone..I esp love the form factor and the OS is damn smart(the UX and small bits and pieces that everyone loves and which make a blackberry a blackberry), and OS is smooth and functional. Third party developers can work wonders on this phone and I already see a lot of highly regarded third party games pour in.

Interestingly everyone I know who has spent some time playing with BB10 says the exact same things as you that they keep gravitating towards it and find the OS very refreshing and interesting. That has got me very curious and I'm definitely going to check it out when available in US. I personally don't care much about ifart or iflashlight apps so current lack of apps is nonissue for me. Im sure more apps will come as the platform is nascent but I understand you can run android apps on the BB10 emulator and apparantly some side loaded apps run even faster on BB10 than Android itself.

Phasers 03-03-2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57967790)
Interestingly everyone I know who has spent some time playing with BB10 says the exact same things as you that they keep gravitating towards it and find the OS very refreshing and interesting. That has got me very curious and I'm definitely going to check it out when available in US. I personally don't care much about ifart or iflashlight apps so current lack of apps is nonissue for me. Im sure more apps will come as the platform is nascent but I understand you can run android apps on the BB10 emulator and apparantly some side loaded apps run even faster on BB10 than Android itself.

This! Repped +4

kg21 03-03-2013 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57963284)
Seems like there are a lot of ppl are hating on the new Z10 without having even tried or seen the product.

I've heard a lot of positive comments from developer friends who have the Dev Alpha. Looks like BB has come up with a decent product. Most technical reviews have been favorable (nytimes and forbes are wellknown for their pro iOS reviews).The new BB10 OS had the most number of apps for a new platform at launch. The browser is very fast and well optimized for html5.

I'm very curious and will check out the Z10 when it comes out in US. The iOS feels really dated and Android is unstable and unsecure. I can see why some ppl can be so passionate about their iPhones because Apple is a giant marketing machine.

The problem isn't that the Blackberry Z10 is the worst product in the world. The problem is that the hardware is mediocre and the software is outdated and gimmicky. You say the OS feels "refreshing" well a tiny minority said that about WebOS look where it got HP. There is nothing about the Z10 that makes it a must buy. They could have made it an interesting product if the price was super low off contract (undercut the Nexus 4) but they price it like a high end phone and it has trouble competing with the galaxy s3 which is about to be replaced and has been out for awhile. It's funny you accuse people of defending apple because of marketing and you call android "insecure and unstable" which is exactly what an uninformed person who has never used android would say.

mc_molineux 03-03-2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg21 (Post 57968660)
they price it like a high end phone and it has trouble competing with the galaxy s3

What are you basing this on? Specs or use?

In terms of OS smoothness and fluidity (I know, very subjective) I've found the Z10 to be much better than an S3. Maybe because the BB10 OS is more efficient in using the hardware or something like that? This is part of the reason why using is believing with regards to the Z10. Something about it makes it more than the sum of its hardware parts.

SlickDealJosh 03-03-2013 09:50 PM

Terrible deal. Who would pay anything for a BB. Nexus 4 is $300!

hood_rep 03-04-2013 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg21 (Post 57968660)
.....It's funny you accuse people of defending apple because of marketing and you call android "insecure and unstable" which is exactly what an uninformed person who has never used android would say.

The President of the US uses a BlackBerry. That speaks volumes about security of the BlackBerry.

I'm not accusing anyone. Relax dude. These are just freaking phones. I dont have an affinity towards any particular brand. But you are taking fanboyism to a whole new level. Whatever you and your phone do is none of my concern. Be happy and use whatever phone you like.

kkrowe 03-04-2013 07:13 AM

I can't wait for this to come to the US! I will be one of the first to go out and pick one up. And since i'm the family's "tech" i'll make sure they get one too. For people with lots of international friends and family BBM is the best way of communication.

kkrowe 03-04-2013 07:15 AM

I can't wait to get this! A few weeks to wait :)

jbloggs 03-04-2013 07:28 AM

I really wish Blackberry success with the new OS and phones. i really hope they release BB OS v10 for the Playbook. I also wish Microsoft the best with their Win8 phones & tablets. Competition is great for consumers.

blahblahyoutoo 03-04-2013 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spocks1 (Post 57951248)
The Z10 reviews have been fantastic.

fantastic? all of the ones I've read have stated it to be mediocre.
they have finally caught up and there is not one killer feature that would make you want to buy one over an android/iphone or even wp8.


when I used to carry a work issued bb, I would be ashamed when someone asks me to look up something on the web and I say that I can't. they see a fancy looking smartphone and they have this dumbfounded look.
obviously this was bb os7 but that's the bad taste that bb has left in my mouth. i've moved on and will never look back.

minj 03-04-2013 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57975650)
fantastic? all of the ones I've read have stated it to be mediocre.
they have finally caught up and there is not one killer feature that would make you want to buy one over an android/iphone or even wp8.


when I used to carry a work issued bb, I would be ashamed when someone asks me to look up something on the web and I say that I can't. they see a fancy looking smartphone and they have this dumbfounded look.
obviously this was bb os7 but that's the bad taste that bb has left in my mouth. i've moved on and will never look back.

how to look something on on the web....push b....search...

it's been around 2 years since I've had a bb but it's pretty ridiculous to say that bb can't search the web...

blahblahyoutoo 03-04-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minj (Post 57975974)
how to look something on on the web....push b....search...

it's been around 2 years since I've had a bb but it's pretty ridiculous to say that bb can't search the web...

^ clearly someone that hasn't used a bb browser.
even 3rd party browsers on a bb sucked ass.

washyou 03-04-2013 08:34 AM

Is this price a joke?

stangnation305 03-04-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lammcspicy (Post 57962592)
2 things.

1. Its now Blackberry and not RIM
2. Blackberry is still a better phone for business than the iphone. Yes, it might have no where as many app but its a better device for email .


The Blackberry is better than the iphone for business?!?! ...LOL! :rofl2: ...what can i do with blackberry that i can't with my iphone???

Quote:

Originally Posted by washyou (Post 57976424)
Is this price a joke?


i think we're getting punk'd

hood_rep 03-04-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57975650)
fantastic? all of the ones I've read have stated it to be mediocre.
they have finally caught up and there is not one killer feature that would make you want to buy one over an android/iphone or even wp8.


when I used to carry a work issued bb, I would be ashamed when someone asks me to look up something on the web and I say that I can't. they see a fancy looking smartphone and they have this dumbfounded look.
obviously this was bb os7 but that's the bad taste that bb has left in my mouth. i've moved on and will never look back.

either you are lying or don't know how to use basic features of a smart phone. you are not supposed to put the phone in your mouth -- no wonder it left you a bad taste ;) it took me less than 5 seconds to figure out how to search on my son's blackberry (which i had to fight to take out of his clutches b/c he is hooked on BBM).

in any event the new blackberry is on a completely fresh OS not the previous generation one, which likely you haven't even seen or used yet, unless you have a beta device blackberry issued to some developers a while ago but you don't sound like a developer.

the price is actually not bad if you have to get one. looks like it may drop though as the UK carriers changed the price today. i'm definitely going to check it out when it hits the US market as i am looking for a replacement for my iphone. i wont get an android device because they are unstable and unsecure -- just today it was revealed that Galaxy Note 2 security flaw poses new risks [phonesreview.co.uk]

blahblahyoutoo 03-04-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57979452)
either you are lying or don't know how to use basic features of a smart phone. you are not supposed to put the phone in your mouth -- no wonder it left you a bad taste ;) it took me less than 5 seconds to figure out how to search on my son's blackberry (which i had to fight to take out of his clutches b/c he is hooked on BBM).

in any event the new blackberry is on a completely fresh OS not the previous generation one, which likely you haven't even seen or used yet, unless you have a beta device blackberry issued to some developers a while ago but you don't sound like a developer.

the price is actually not bad if you have to get one. looks like it may drop though as the UK carriers changed the price today. i'm definitely going to check it out when it hits the US market as i am looking for a replacement for my iphone. i wont get an android device because they are unstable and unsecure -- just today it was revealed that Galaxy Note 2 security flaw poses new risks [phonesreview.co.uk]

i already prefaced my statement saying it was os7.
try using the browser on any os7 device. it is beyond painful.
compared to mobile safari/chrome of the same era, it's like comparing IE1 back in win95 to a current build of FF or chrome.

DanguardAce 03-04-2013 10:55 AM

Is this better than my motorola triumph?

hood_rep 03-04-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57979780)
i already prefaced my statement saying it was os7.
try using the browser on any os7 device. it is beyond painful.
compared to mobile safari/chrome of the same era, it's like comparing IE1 back in win95 to a current build of FF or chrome.

i've used the browser on the OS7 and it is pretty decent compared to safari on my iphone and ipad. anyway, we are talking about BB10 so your point is moot.

perhaps you do not understand that we are talking about BB10, a completely redesigned OS from ground up, not OS7? why are you talking about OS7 in a Z10 thread? the Z10 runs on the new BB10 platform. have you even used the new browser on the BB10?

Namelessme 03-04-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57975650)
fantastic? all of the ones I've read have stated it to be mediocre.
they have finally caught up and there is not one killer feature that would make you want to buy one over an android/iphone or even wp8.


when I used to carry a work issued bb, I would be ashamed when someone asks me to look up something on the web and I say that I can't. they see a fancy looking smartphone and they have this dumbfounded look.
obviously this was bb os7 but that's the bad taste that bb has left in my mouth. i've moved on and will never look back.

I can understand how first impressions may matter, but whatever issues you had with OS7 doesn't apply to BB10. BB10 is just as modern as any other mobile OS.

And following up on your analogy, I don't think many people base their current PC purchases on how well Explorer worked in 1995 on their Win 95 system. Although due to how lousy Win 8 is, perhaps they should...

I think a lot of people don't understand that the new BB10 phones don't need to compete so much with ios/android. If you are happy with what you have, stick with it. They are going after microsoft for 3rd place in the mobile sector. These phones are primarily for current and former blackberry people who want to upgrade.

And the user experience is quite decent. So long as you don't require a ton of games, it's a nice system.

blahblahyoutoo 03-04-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57980256)
i've used the browser on the OS7 and it is pretty decent compared to safari on my iphone and ipad. anyway, we are talking about BB10 so your point is moot.

perhaps you do not understand that we are talking about BB10, a completely redesigned OS from ground up, not OS7? why are you talking about OS7 in a Z10 thread? the Z10 runs on the new BB10 platform. have you even used the new browser on the BB10?

pretty decent?
I was using the latest and greatest phone BB had at the time, the torch, and I would've rather used safari on my 1st gen ipod touch. that's right, I'm comparing a 2011 device to a 2007 device and picked the one from 2007, and the 2007 one was better by far. it wasn't even close.

i'm in the tech industry. i'm pretty sure I have a good deal of knowledge about what's being discussed here.
perhaps you don't comprehend that my statement was made explaining why I will not be returning to BB.
they are not an innovator in the mobile space anymore. all they are doing now is playing catch up. i have no faith in dealing with companies that rest on their laurels and do not evolve as the industry moves forward.

DanguardAce 03-04-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57981440)
pretty decent?
I was using the latest and greatest phone BB had at the time, the torch, and I would've rather used safari on my 1st gen ipod touch. that's right, I'm comparing a 2011 device to a 2007 device and picked the one from 2007, and the 2007 one was better by far. it wasn't even close.

i'm in the tech industry. i'm pretty sure I have a good deal of knowledge about what's being discussed here.
perhaps you don't comprehend that my statement was made explaining why I will not be returning to BB.
they are not an innovator in the mobile space anymore. all they are doing now is playing catch up. i have no faith in dealing with companies that rest on their laurels and do not evolve as the industry moves forward.


So it is safe to say that my motorola triumph is better than this?

hood_rep 03-04-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57981440)
pretty decent?
I was using the latest and greatest phone BB had at the time, the torch, and I would've rather used safari on my 1st gen ipod touch. that's right, I'm comparing a 2011 device to a 2007 device and picked the one from 2007, and the 2007 one was better by far. it wasn't even close.

i'm in the tech industry. i'm pretty sure I have a good deal of knowledge about what's being discussed here.
perhaps you don't comprehend that my statement was made explaining why I will not be returning to BB.
they are not an innovator in the mobile space anymore. all they are doing now is playing catch up. i have no faith in dealing with companies that rest on their laurels and do not evolve as the industry moves forward.

you seem hung up on issues with their OS7. but your disappointment and frustrations with OS7 do not warrant bashing their completely redesigned BB10 OS without first checking it out. currently no other platform out there has the multitasking that BB10 offers. the Hub and Balance features also seem very interesting, and i'd like to check them out when the device is available in the US.

i'm not sure if blackberry was resting on their laurels doing nothing as the mobile industry went by. as someone in the tech industry surely you would appreciate that building up a new OS from ground up on something as complex as QNX (used in millions of cars, nuclear power plants, etc) is not something a company can magically accomplish over night. it took an industry giant like apple 4 years to build the iOS.

anyway i don't want this to become a pissing match between iOS and OS7 as i'm not a fanboy of any particular company. i simply find the iOS really dated and looking forward to checking out an alternative like BB10 as a replacement.

SkyKing02 03-04-2013 12:32 PM

blackberry = will file for bankruptcy in 2 years.

sfo_giants 03-04-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyKing02 (Post 57982792)
blackberry = will file for bankruptcy in 2 years.

that is not going to happen, the worst is behind them, they have no debt and $3 billion in the bank, if anything they are coming pretty strong than ever with more focused approach on enterprise features etc with features like balance, already FIPS-level 2 certification etc (no other OS including IOS and Android has this), QNX capabilities for the future are beyond your comprehension

DanguardAce 03-04-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfo_giants (Post 57983344)
that is not going to happen, the worst is behind them, they have no debt and $3 billion in the bank, if anything they are coming pretty strong than ever with more focused approach on enterprise features etc with features like balance, already FIPS-level 2 certification etc (no other OS including IOS and Android has this), QNX capabilities for the future are beyond your comprehension

can someone just tell me if this phone is better than my motorola triumph?

sfo_giants 03-04-2013 01:55 PM

The Financial Post reports in its Thursday edition that whether the greatest tech phenom in Canadian history succeeds or not with its do-or-die BlackBerrry 10 platform and handsets, the national corporate icon is playing the game of capitalism in glorious fashion. The Post's Terence Corcoran writes that executives have been turfed, the original creators of the company shown the door, the business model revamped, government bailouts rejected, new products launched, market analysts and experts are at war over the company's prospects -- and the outlook is uncertain. Isn't the free market great? No sporting contests, including the World Cup, can match the BlackBerry saga for tension, drama, strategic plays, execution challenges and uncertainty of outcome. The company once known as Research in Motion, considered a loser and all but dead to the world last year, has fought back and stands today with what appears to be a decent chance at winning. That BlackBerry has come this far is itself an entrepreneurial marvel achieved in the face of relentless criticism from a constant procession of naysayers and harpies. For a corporate sporting fan like Mr. Corcoran, it hardly gets any better than this

http://opinion.financialpost.com/...lackberry/

tramposo 03-04-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangnation305 (Post 57951246)
Blackberry...LOL! :rofl2:

More like D.O.A :rofl2: :rofl2:

blahblahyoutoo 03-04-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57982718)
you seem hung up on issues with their OS7. but your disappointment and frustrations with OS7 do not warrant bashing their completely redesigned BB10 OS without first checking it out. currently no other platform out there has the multitasking that BB10 offers. the Hub and Balance features also seem very interesting, and i'd like to check them out when the device is available in the US.

i'm not sure if blackberry was resting on their laurels doing nothing as the mobile industry went by. as someone in the tech industry surely you would appreciate that building up a new OS from ground up on something as complex as QNX (used in millions of cars, nuclear power plants, etc) is not something a company can magically accomplish over night. it took an industry giant like apple 4 years to build the iOS.

anyway i don't want this to become a pissing match between iOS and OS7 as i'm not a fanboy of any particular company. i simply find the iOS really dated and looking forward to checking out an alternative like BB10 as a replacement.

you don't think that BB was sitting idly from OS5 to OS7 as they watched google/apple come out with better devices and software? you don't think it was stubbornness or perhaps arrogance that made the co-CEO's tell the world that they don't need apps?

i'm not a fanboy of any company either. i just happened to own iOS at the time, and now find android JB to be adequate (which means it isn't without its flaws but is the best device for my needs atm).
I too find iOS very limiting in what it allows you to do without jailbreaking, but it is the smoothest running OS of all the major OS's (perhaps because it does not offer true multitasking).

to show that i'm not blindly bashing BB, my mobile device history has been as follows:
BB (unknown model, color screen side scroll wheel), BB pearl, (ipod touch somewhere here) BB 8830 world, BB storm 1, BB storm 2, BB torch 9850, gnex, nex4.

ever since we've been allowed to BYOD, I've left BB until it gives me a reason to return. no doubt BB OS10 is better than OS7, but it still does not offer anything compelling to make me switch from Android. it is simply on par (or slightly below if you count the ecosystem).

GreenCheetah 03-04-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolbox1 (Post 57984556)
can someone just tell me if this phone is better than my motorola triumph?

I have no Idea, but I find it hilarious that your question has gone unanswered for so long. Anyone want to help this guy out?

Binar 03-04-2013 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolbox1 (Post 57980006)
Is this better than my motorola triumph?

Depends

dsides 03-05-2013 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 57979452)
i'm definitely going to check it out when it hits the US market as i am looking for a replacement for my iphone. i wont get an android device because they are unstable and unsecure -- just today it was revealed that Galaxy Note 2 security flaw poses new risks [phonesreview.co.uk]

I'm really not trying to be a troll here, but nearly the same thing can be done on iOS 6.1.2.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/14...our-iphone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feat...DkLpj3MM-c

I the issue that's apparent in 4.1.2 was fixed in 4.2 five months ago, btw. I own 4 Android phones, and an iPhone 4s. I'm not trying to start an argument, but Android is far from insecure, and unstable.

I really don't care about this "security flaw" because I've never used a password on my iPhone, and I didn't use a lock screen when I had 4.1.2 on my Galaxy Nexus.

kg21 03-05-2013 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo (Post 57985820)
you don't think that BB was sitting idly from OS5 to OS7 as they watched google/apple come out with better devices and software? you don't think it was stubbornness or perhaps arrogance that made the co-CEO's tell the world that they don't need apps?

i'm not a fanboy of any company either. i just happened to own iOS at the time, and now find android JB to be adequate (which means it isn't without its flaws but is the best device for my needs atm).
I too find iOS very limiting in what it allows you to do without jailbreaking, but it is the smoothest running OS of all the major OS's (perhaps because it does not offer true multitasking).

to show that i'm not blindly bashing BB, my mobile device history has been as follows:
BB (unknown model, color screen side scroll wheel), BB pearl, (ipod touch somewhere here) BB 8830 world, BB storm 1, BB storm 2, BB torch 9850, gnex, nex4.

ever since we've been allowed to BYOD, I've left BB until it gives me a reason to return. no doubt BB OS10 is better than OS7, but it still does not offer anything compelling to make me switch from Android. it is simply on par (or slightly below if you count the ecosystem).

+1 these Blackberry fanboys don't seem to understand that the Z10 does nothing to draw people from Android/Apple, even Windows phone. When someone asks why should I switch over to the Blackberry Z10? It won't be the hardware, it won't be the software, and it won't be the price either. Oh and the free bonus is that the selection of apps is terrible compared to Android/Apple.

Cirrus 03-05-2013 06:03 AM

They can't even get Netflix to make an app for this phone...
http://bgr.com/2013/03/04/netflix...pp-359561/
http://news.yahoo.com/netflix-not...42957.html

And I'm sure Netflix is not alone here...I guess if you want to be treated like the red headed step child of smartphone OSes...

Mind you, the phone is fast and relatively secure compared to other platforms, but for most consumers it's going to be the last kid to be picked for the sports team.

Ashvins 03-05-2013 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg21 (Post 57999930)
+1 these Blackberry fanboys don't seem to understand that the Z10 does nothing to draw people from Android/Apple, even Windows phone. When someone asks why should I switch over to the Blackberry Z10? It won't be the hardware, it won't be the software, and it won't be the price either. Oh and the free bonus is that the selection of apps is terrible compared to Android/Apple.

When it will get interesting is after it dies the inevitable deal of a thousand cuts and ends up in the markdown pile on the deal a day sites. For the right price, I might be interested. But this isn't it.

Cozz 03-05-2013 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus (Post 58000084)
They can't even get Netflix to make an app for this phone...
http://bgr.com/2013/03/04/netflix...pp-359561/
http://news.yahoo.com/netflix-not...42957.html

And I'm sure Netflix is not alone here...I guess if you want to be treated like the red headed step child of smartphone OSes...

Mind you, the phone is fast and relatively secure compared to other platforms, but for most consumers it's going to be the last kid to be picked for the sports team.

Netflix simply doesn't want to do one for Blackberry. But they were more than willing to do it for the Win 8 phone and even the Sony Vita. Both a failure in terms of sales. Netflix has always gone out if it's way to make sure Blackberry will never get it but yet, every other OS- failure or not will get it. Also, it would be easier for Netflix to make a HTML5 app to run on many OS's but they refuse to because, as we all know BB10 runs every HTML5 app perfectly.

In Fact, BB10 will run Android 4.0+ emulator soon, I can promise you Netflix will update their Android app to make sure it will not work on BB10.

MrTwo94 03-05-2013 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toromac (Post 57957566)
Too little, too late. Ecosystem is everything now. If you don't have enough optimized apps, then you have nothing. Apple and Android run the show. Windows phone picks up the scraps. There's nothing left for blackberry. It will die a slow death or will eventually be bought by a bigger fish.

This is the truth here. Sad to say because I really liked the Torch.

I was too cheap to pay for a data plan for my personal phone so I have just taken what my jobs have given me. I've had two blackberries, a windows phone (WP7), and now the S3.

I love my S3 and can't imagine leaving the android ecosystem, but I really liked the last BB I had - the Torch. It was highly customizable and the form factor was great. It was a bit thick, but it was small and having the whole screen available while typing e-mails was very good for work. The system was very intuitive.

I really disliked WP7 (later updated to 7.5 mango). It had some nice features, but I had to install Zune to get music on it which is just as loathsome as Apple and their iTunes bullshit. The UI sucks. Live tiles are nifty but it ends there. The android home screens and widgets are much better. I could never fathom why, when I plugged my WP7 into my Win 7 laptop, it was unrecognized. Wtf microsoft? How slapdick is that? With the S3 and the Torch I could just drag and drop pictures, music, etc. No bloatware necessary. Also, there was no way to get a custom ringtone or notification on the phone. Maybe they fixed that with WP8, but I'll never know.

Long story short, if I didn't love Android so much, I'd be excited to give Blackberry another shot if the price was right. I'd greatly prefer an unknown Blackberry to a stupid iPhone or Windows Phone. But when you can get a Nexus 4 for $300, I don't see how anybody can squeeze into the market now. I wish it wasn't true, but I think BB is doomed unless they could somehow break into the "cheap" smartphone category that Android is dominating.

Jeffbx 03-05-2013 06:28 AM

Yeah, BB is too late. A fast browser or the most awesome OS in the world won't help them at this point - they're simply too late to the game.

Most big companies that WERE standardized on BB have moved on to iOS or Android, and realized how much easier (and cheaper!) it is to not deal with the BES.

App developers have a gigantic market for iOS & Android. Not many people will be rushing away from those platforms to tap into the tiny BB market. It'll take a looong time for BB apps to get even a fraction of the volume that the market leaders have.

I see BB as the Lotus Notes of the Smartphone world. The old developers will cling to it & swear it's the best thing that ever existed in the history of computing, while meanwhile 95% of the market ignores it.

PJStock42 03-05-2013 06:35 AM

Because I like to try out new technology, I would absolutely buy one of these, IF it had a Spotify app.

Cyrix2k 03-05-2013 06:43 AM

I think the price is too high to make any real headway, but it's not like the price is out of line compared to other similar spec'd smartphones. My old Blackberry was a great smartphone if you ignore how slow it was. I'd be willing to give the BB10s a shot at a lower price point. The negative comments about this phone are uncalled for and almost certainly from people with no experience.

toromac 03-05-2013 09:18 AM

If they were smart they would have come out of the gate with this phone for 399. They might only make 50 dollars per phone, but at least they could tease back some customers. At 600 dollars they have set their slow death into motion. Mismanagement at its finest.

cantalup 03-05-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdimarco (Post 57954628)
Check Ebay, people is paying $1000 for this phone.

Go to an Apple store and buy a unlocked Iphone 5, it will be $720 with tax.

Decent price for the z10 phone.

those are probably( as I understand) dropship/forwarding service (in US, I assume you already know) where the buyers are outside US.

I know in some countries . BB is still number one, especially with BBM service.
they can not buy Z10 at the moment due on local laws or late release date.
I know they would pick the money deeply to get the phone without thinking the cost :D.

cantalup 03-05-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTwo94 (Post 58000264)
....... I really liked the last BB I had - the Torch. It was highly customizable and the form factor was great. It was a bit thick, but it was small and having the whole screen available while typing e-mails was very good for work. The system was very intuitive.
.................

as I know,
if you are look further in Asia, Torch is/was not their preference.
they prefers low-budget BB where BBM for personal& works is the main reason to buy.

As I understand from the news, BB will release low-budget phone to tackle aging low-budget phone product currently on specific countries.

Android and Apple phone are eating BB market very fast....

hood_rep 03-05-2013 05:43 PM

What is ridiculous is that ppl were writing off BB as early as two years ago, making all sorts of comparisons to Palm, Atari, and Lotus Notes (hadn't heard that one before!), yet not only they survived, but also they increased their cash to 3B and launched a completely new platform. Even the analyst are chewing their words and increasing their sales forecast for the Z10.

What is even more ridiculous is that there is much conjecture and speculation from ppl who haven't even seen the Z10. Can someone who has actually used the Z10 objectively give their thoughts on the phone here?

I get that you had an older BB for 5 years, it ran OS5.0.1.2.3, never broke when you dropped her but after 5 years she became too slow, got fat and ugly, needed hard resets, you broke up, got an Android, moved on, Taylor Swift wrote a song about it. That's fascinating. But how is Z10 and how does it compare to the iphone 5?

mc_molineux 03-05-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hood_rep (Post 58016974)
Can someone who has actually used the Z10 objectively give their thoughts on the phone here? ... But how is Z10 and how does it compare to the iphone 5?

Yes. It's great. Using is believing. I got one, and then after a couple of weeks of playing with it, my wife ordered one too.

Compared to iPhone 5, the browser is faster (to my eye anyway) and the screen is nicer. The OS is wayyyy slicker (the always-open notification centre is fantastic). The apps selection though is of course much weaker. I'm not really an app guy though. Skype is the only one I'm waiting for and BlackBerry has confirmed that it's coming sometime around the full U.S. launch. As such, this phone seemed right for me so I took the plunge and ordered one, and at this point couldn't be happier.

xiaohuaxing 03-16-2013 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg21 (Post 57999930)
+1 these Blackberry fanboys don't seem to understand that the Z10 does nothing to draw people from Android/Apple, even Windows phone. When someone asks why should I switch over to the Blackberry Z10? It won't be the hardware, it won't be the software, and it won't be the price either. Oh and the free bonus is that the selection of apps is terrible compared to Android/Apple.

Whoops, someone forgot to give these people your memo

http://bgr.com/2013/03/01/blackbe...id-354052/


:shake:

el31415 03-16-2013 06:02 PM

Do we get a free Playbook with that ?

oper 03-16-2013 08:24 PM

Free with 2 year contract in 6 month from now.

al4nw31 03-16-2013 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oper (Post 58267854)
Free with 2 year contract in 6 month from now.

CONGRATULATIONS.
You can FINANCE this phone for $20-30 a month, and pay $600.
OR YOU CAN GET A CONTRACT. And pay approximately $800-1,000 extra inside the contract.
Brilliant, sir, you have done your homework.
You should really compare the T-Mobile Value plans and normal plans.
And by the way, I do believe AT&T gives discounts for an off-contract phone as well.

Brooklynite 03-16-2013 09:14 PM

Do we seriously need another crippled mobile OS?

lchen5 03-16-2013 09:18 PM

Blackberry ecosystem is already way behind Android. Its price is double of Google N4.
There is no way to sell at this price. Smart phone hardware components cost is only around $200-$250 if volume is big enough(say more than 1 million units/month). If Blackberry wants to sell its phone, it's better to learn something from Google. How did Google Nexus tablets/phones grab market share from Apple and others.


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