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Polk Audio PSW125 12" 300W Powered Subwoofer (Cherry or Black) $199.95 + Free Shipping *Amazon Lightning Deal*

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AcousticSoundDesign via Amazon [amazon.com] has Polk Audio PSW125 12" 300W Powered Subwoofer (Cherry [amazon.com] or Black [amazon.com]) on sale as an Amazon Lightning Deal for $199.95. Shipping is free.
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#2
Another option if u r getting a budget subwoofer is to get TWO of these instead for the same money + shipping...
http://m.thewirecutter.com/review...subwoofer/

U can either put them on top or beside each other for a big 6 decibel bump in overall output or put them in opposite corners of the room for smoother response (less peaks and dips) over more seats (preferred).
Some complaints of hum and low output but they bought a second one to test and both it and the original one they tested were identical (no issues). If u have a hum in a sub it is often from a ground loop, usually through the television cable feed.

Use code 3RD for 15% off
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Last edited by JimBanville September 10, 2017 at 07:21 AM.
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#3
Quote from JimBanville
:
Another option if u r getting a budget subwoofer is to get TWO of these instead for the same money + shipping...
http://m.thewirecutter.com/review...subwoofer/

U can either put them on top or beside each other for a big 6 decibel bump in overall output or put them in opposite corners of the room for smoother response (less peaks and dips) over more seats (preferred).
Some complaints of hum and low output but they bought a second one to test and both it and the original one they tested were identical (no issues). If u have a hum in a sub it is often from a ground loop, usually through the television cable feed.

Use code 3RD for 15% off

Quote from Specs of the "sub" you suggest :
It has a frequency response range of 50 to 250 Hz
How do they even get away with calling that a subwoofer if it only plays down to 50hz? Looking at the measurements he took (and those are in-room measurements in a professionally calibrated room- real world results are likely much worse) the "sub" is down over 15db from 63Hz to 31.5Hz.

That ain't a sub, it's a joke.


I mean, the one in the original post is also pretty crappy- Frequency Response 32 - 225 Hz.... but at least it plays slightly lower than decent normal speakers can.


Meanwhile for about $125 on sale you can get a Dayton Sub1200, or as a bit of a step up at $180 you can get a Jamo J-110, either of which performs dramatically better than either previous suggestion.
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Last edited by Knightshade September 10, 2017 at 08:19 AM.
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#4
Quote from Knightshade
:
How do they even get away with calling that a subwoofer if it only plays down to 50hz?

That ain't a sub, it's a joke.


I mean, the one in the original post is also pretty crappy- Frequency Response 32 - 225 Hz.... but at least it plays slightly lower than decent normal speakers can.


Meanwhile for about $125 on sale you can get a Dayton Sub1200, or as a bit of a step up at $180 you can get a Jamo J-110, either of which performs dramatically better than either previous suggestion.
Lol! Cmon man. Those r numbers on a sheet of paper. U shouldn't put to much weight on them. U must MEASURE for true specs.
Read the review. It has useable response way below 50hz. I personally don't care that much about response below 30hx. I prefer a strong punch in the chest response (strong mid bass) vs the low bass u feel on your skin more than u actually hear.

From the review...
"In the mid bass, from 40 to 63 Hz, it scored 115.9 dB compared with the 114.9 dB for the Dayton Audio SUB-1500, 114.0 dB for the BIC V1020, and 108.8 dB for the Dayton Audio SUB-1000L. In the deep bass, from 20 to 31.5 Hz, it scored 99.3 dB compared with 102.7 dB for the Dayton SUB-1500, 96.5 dB for the BIC and 97.0 dB for the Dayton SUB-1000L."
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Last edited by JimBanville September 10, 2017 at 08:24 AM.
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Quote from JimBanville
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That is the min-max of the low pass crossover knob, lol.

That's actually the frequency response listed according to the actual manufactures page.

LOL indeed.

Here's a blown-up version of the tests the reviewer did-
https://docs.google.com/spreadshe...nteractive

You can see pretty clearly the curve is never flat at all, shows significant (>3db) drop off below about 60hz, and loses almost 15 db from 63 down to 31.5.

So the actual +/- 3db FR being down to 50Hz is actually overly optimistic compared to measured results which turn out to be even worse than those given specs.




Quote from JimBanville
:
Read the review. It has useable response way below 50hz.
I did.

That's why I pointed out it's down over 15db from 63Hz to 31.5Hz

That's terrible

The other subs I suggested remain +/- 3db down into the mid 20Hz range for a similar price.

(and again- his results are with optimal placement in a professional calibrated room- most folks will get worse results than he did- and his pretty much suck)


Quote from JimBanville
:
I personally don't care that much about response below 30hx. I prefer a strong punch in the chest response (strong mid bass) vs the low bass u feel on your skin more than u actually hear.

For music that's fine. There's not a ton of content under 30.

Then again, the sub you suggest sucks in the 30s too compared to the ones I suggested.

It begins falling on its face much below 60 as you can see in the chart.


And for movies, especially action/adventure/sci-fi there's a lot of sub 30Hz (and a LOT of sub 50Hz) that the sub you suggest is hugely inferior for compared to the ones I suggested at a similar price range.
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Last edited by Knightshade September 10, 2017 at 08:29 AM.
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Quote from Knightshade
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That's actually the frequency response listed according to the actual manufactures page.

LOL indeed.

Here's a blown-up version of the tests the reviewer did-
https://docs.google.com/spreadshe...nteractive

You can see pretty clearly the curve is never flat at all, shows significant (>3db) drop off below about 60hz, and loses almost 15 db from 63 down to 31.5.

So the actual +/- 3db FR being down to 50Hz is actually overly optimistic compared to measured results which turn out to be even worse than those given specs.






I did.

That's why I pointed out it's down over 15db from 63Hz to 31.5Hz

That's terrible

The other subs I suggested remain +/- 3db down into the mid 20Hz range for a similar price.

(and again- his results are with optimal placement in a professional calibrated room- most folks will get worse results than he did- and his pretty much suck)





For music that's fine. There's not a ton of content under 30.

Then again, the sub you suggest sucks in the 30s too compared to the ones I suggested.

It begins falling on its face much below 60 as you can see in the chart.


And for movies, especially action/adventure/sci-fi there's a lot of sub 30Hz (and a LOT of sub 50Hz) that the sub you suggest is hugely inferior for compared to the ones I suggested at a similar price range.
My bad. The knob min max is 50-150. Either way, there's no "-x db" factor on that spec so it is completely useless anyway. Again, u must measure the sub to determine true capability.
The more expensive 15" bigger brother of the Dayton u recommend was compared to the cheap monoprice and was just very slightly better, so I doubt the smaller 12" u recommend is any better. What are the CEA-2010 measurements of the subs u recommend? I'm NOT interested in comparing subs based on manufacturer "claims".
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Last edited by JimBanville September 10, 2017 at 08:35 AM.
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Quote from JimBanville
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My bad. The knob min max is 50-150. Either way, there's no "-x db" factor on that spec so it is useless anyway. Again, u must measure the sub to determine true capability.
Yes, and the reviewer did so.

And it's terrible.

It's down 3db before it even gets to 50Hz


Quote from JimBanville
:
What are the CEA-2010 specs of the subs u recommend?

Dayton sub1200 MFG specs for FR are Frequency response: 25-140 Hz

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost...b1200.jpeg

That's a calibrated dayton sub1200 measured.

It's not SVS flat, but it's vastly better than the Monoprice and seems to support the MFG claims.... there's a number of other graphs of it out there, and while I don't know how professionally they were each done, all of them show the sub with output in the high 20s/low 30s comparable to what it's putting out in the 60s.... while the monoprice sub is down >15db doing that.



The Jamo J-110 lists:

Frequency Response (Hz, +/-3dB) 26 - 125Hz


Either way both should perform vastly better than the Monoprice sub (or the sub in the original post)
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Last edited by Knightshade September 10, 2017 at 08:39 AM.

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Quote from Knightshade
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Yes, and the reviewer did so.

And it's terrible.

It's down 3db before it even gets to 50Hz





Dayton sub1200 MFG specs for FR are Frequency response: 25-140 Hz

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost...b1200.jpeg

That's a calibrated dayton sub1200 measured.

It's not SVS flat, but it's vastly better than the Monoprice and seems to support the MFG claims.... there's a number of other graphs of it out there, and while I don't know how professionally they were each done, all of them show the sub with output in the high 20s/low 30s comparable to what it's putting out in the 60s.... while the monoprice sub is down >15db doing that.



The Jamo J-110 lists:

Frequency Response (Hz, +/-3dB) 26 - 125Hz


Either way both should perform vastly better than the Monoprice sub (or the sub in the original post)
How can the 12" version of the Dayton "vastly" outperform the monoprice when the 15" version was only 3db louder?

I recommend ppl actually look at the combined CEA-2010 measurement chart in the review to see how this sub compared to the other subs they measured.

Btw, I own 2 of the 10" Dayton's. They r in opposing corners in my bedroom system (12x12 room). Meh..they're ok. Better than nothing, lol.
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Last edited by JimBanville September 10, 2017 at 08:46 AM.
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Quote from JimBanville
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How can the 12" version of the Dayton "vastly" outperform the monoprice when the 15" version was only 3db louder?

I recommend ppl actually look at the combined CEA-2010 measurement chart in the review to see how this sub compared to the other subs they measured.

The dayton 1500 graph in his review doesn't just show it's louder, it shows it's flatter as well.

Around 60hz they're almost identical, by the 25-30Hz range there's a significant drop off on the monoprice compared to the Dayton.

You'll see the same thing with the Dayton 12. Hence why it outperforms it.

It can play deeper and more consistently. Which is what you want in a sub.


The whole point of HAVING a sub is to play the notes your regular speakers can't.

Decent cheap tower speakers can play down to 40Hz... so buying a sub to play 60hz notes makes no sense. If you want more 60Hz noise just turn up that band in your amp on your regular speakers.

The point of a sub is to play content below 40hz.

Which the monoprice sub kinda sucks at compared to other options mentioned.



The difference between the Dayton 12 and 15 isn't massive... (and I say that having owned both of them at one time or another)- the driver and enclosure is larger obviously, but the amp is only 120w vs 150w.

In anything but large spaces I generally recommend the Dayton 12 over the 15 for the $ (and it's unfortunate he didn't include that in his testing)
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This graph?
The red (15" Dayton) and yellow (12" monoprice) r nearly identical! Where r these "vast" differences, lol.
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Last edited by JimBanville September 10, 2017 at 08:59 AM.
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Quote from JimBanville
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This graph?
The red (15" Dayton) and yellow (12" monoprice) r nearly identical! Where r these "vast" differences, lol.

They're in the graph.

I even told you where in the graph.

Do you need a slick deal on glasses? Or are you not aware db is a logarithmic scale and 5db is a significant difference in sound?


The fact they're almost identical at 60Hz, but the Monoprice is down significantly at 30Hz (and even more by 25) is what tells you the curve on the Dayton is flatter.

That is, the Dayton has a better frequency response range, where the output does not drop off as quickly as the frequency drops.


That's why the best/most valid FR specs say +/- 3 db.

They explain the range over which the curve remains relatively flat. (even better are subs that spec to +/- 1db but those tend to be an order of magnitude more expensive than the ones we are discussing)

That's why the posted specs from the MFG on the Monoprice are so terrible... only listing an FR down to 50Hz.

because even your own guys graph shows the FR is falling on its face past that.



If you don't wanna believe your own source knock yourself out I guess.
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Quote from Knightshade
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They're in the graph.

I even told you where in the graph.

Do you need a slick deal on glasses? Or are you not aware db is a logarithmic scale and 5db is a significant difference in sound?


The fact they're almost identical at 60Hz, but the Monoprice is down significantly at 30Hz (and even more by 25) is what tells you the curve on the Dayton is flatter.

That is, the Dayton has a better frequency response range, where the output does not drop off as quickly as the frequency drops.


That's why the best/most valid FR specs say +/- 3 db.

They explain the range over which the curve remains relatively flat. (even better are subs that spec to +/- 1db but those tend to be an order of magnitude more expensive than the ones we are discussing)

That's why the posted specs from the MFG on the Monoprice are so terrible... only listing an FR down to 50Hz.

because even your own guys graph shows the FR is falling on its face past that.



If you don't wanna believe your own source knock yourself out I guess.
I'm on mobile. Maybe I'm seeing something different. Post a pic of the graph u r seeing that shows this "vast" difference. The graph I'm seeing has the lines practically overlapping until below 40, but just barely, until 30, where they r more distinct.

PS..no need to b a dick in the process.
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Quote from JimBanville
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I'm on mobile. Maybe I'm seeing something different. Post a pic of the graph u r seeing that shows this "vast" difference. The graph I'm seeing has the lines practically overlapping until below 40, but just barely, until 30, where they r more distinct.

That might be it- I'm seeing it on a 55" 4k display

I did post the one I'm using (and it's also linked inside your own source)

here it is a second time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadshe...nteractive




Also with a mouse you can actually mouse over certain points and it tells you the exact #

For example doing that you can see that the Monoprice is down several db (not quite 3 yet- 3db being a doubling of power) at 31.5Hz compared to the Dayton... then further down 5db at 25Hz compared to the Dayton.


Thus the Dayton curve is significantly flatter into the deeper notes (below 25 the Dayton graph drops more steeply- which the Monoprice one had been doing since 50Hz- again the mono curve being a steeper drop might be more obvious on a bigger screen- it also doesn't help the mono appears to have a higher "peak" in the 63-80Hz range so it has further to fall too- versus a better, flatter, curve where you can get consistent results over a wider range and just adjust volume as you want)

This is why the MFG of the Monoprice doesn't try and claim it has a +/- 3db FR below 50Hz.

Because it doesn't.

It has already dropped-3db between 63Hz and 50Hz.

And it gets worse from there
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Last edited by Knightshade September 10, 2017 at 09:39 AM.
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#15
So is this polk any good. Thinking about getting the refurb one from warehouse because it matches my speakers.

If it sounds decent, win/win.
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