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Biological male wins ncaa women’s track championship

21,338 May 29, 2019 at 08:26 PM
For *REAL* women athletes, what's the point anymore? At any point, a man can decide he's a woman and through a superior biological strength, eliminate any woman's chance of winning in her chosen sport. Estrogen injections *DO NOT* eliminate that advantage a male has over a female in most sporting events. Those injections do not change basic human biology.

Quote :
A biological male who identifies as a transgender woman won an NCAA national championship over Memorial Day weekend.

Franklin Pierce University (FPU) runner CeCe Telfer won the DII women's 400-meter hurdles on Saturday night, besting the second-place finisher by more than a second.

"Telfer is the first student-athlete in Franklin Pierce history to collect an individual national title," the university announced.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/2...mpionship/

The coach continually referred to the dude as "she", as if that changes something Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

Quote :
"It was tough conditions out here with the wind and the heat over the last three days but, as she has over the last six months, CeCe proved herself to be tough enough to handle it," FPU coach Zach Emerson said in a press release.
I'm beyond disgusted that this is what society is now considering normal. vomit

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#2
Just get rid of the delineation between M/W sports and have a single competition in all sports. That will eliminate debate on this trans crap.

It will also tend to eliminate women from competing, too.
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#3
Quote from Dr. J
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Just get rid of the delineation between M/W sports and have a single competition in all sports. That will eliminate debate on this trans crap.

It will also tend to eliminate women from competing, too.
or, in all fairness, if there is any, err, Q, about a person's gender, that should disqualify them from participating in the events.
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Quote from TRNT
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or, in all fairness, if there is any, err, Q, about a person's gender, that should disqualify them from participating in the events.
My point is simple. Men and women are separated in sports for one very simple reason. By in large, men are taller/larger/stronger/faster than women, and if there were only one league, men would dominate and women might as well not even compete.

If we're going to blur these lines and let men compete in womens leagues simply because they say they're "a woman" or they are suppressing hormones - have the underlying reasons why we separate the two sexes changed? No. So, get rid of the separation altogether. You can't have it both ways.
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#5
Quote from Dr. J
:
My point is simple. Men and women are separated in sports for one very simple reason. By in large, men are taller/larger/stronger/faster than women, and if there were only one league, men would dominate and women might as well not even compete.

If we're going to blur these lines and let men compete in womens leagues simply because they say they're "a woman" or they are suppressing hormones - have the underlying reasons why we separate the two sexes changed? No. So, get rid of the separation altogether. You can't have it both ways.
but my point solves your concern. why ruin this for all women because of a few Qs?
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#6
"Both trans and intersex athletes are often accused of unfair competitive advantages that supposedly threaten to eliminate women's athletics as such, and the notion that these competitors should compete in some sort of separate category goes back decades.

"Women's sports will [be] taken over by a giant race of surgically created women" reads a letter published in the September 5, 1976, edition of The New York Times, later adding, "Perhaps there should now be three categories for athletic competitions—female, male and others."

The letter was written in reference to transgender tennis player Renée Richards's fight to compete in the Women's US Open. When Richards got clearance to play, there was (unfounded) fear that she'd usher in a new era of male athletes transitioning to female for the glory of sports fame and fortune. Trans and intersex athletes are framed—in headlines, and stories—as unbeatable when they may really just be average. (Richards, for example, never made it past the third round in her five US Open appearances, and was eliminated twice in the first round.) When they do win, the wins are often qualified with questions of fairness and controversy. A New York Times article about Brazilian volleyball player Tifanny Abreu, for instance, ran under the headline "Transgender Volleyball Star in Brazil Eyes Olympics and Stirs Debate."

Following her win in the 35-44 age group at the master's track world championships in October, trans cyclist Rachel McKinnon became the target of hostile reporting that called into question whether it was fair for her to compete against other women at all. Jennifer Wagner, who placed third, proclaimed on Twitter that McKinnon's win was "definitely NOT fair." Baffled by Wagner's claim, McKinnon noted that Wagner has actually won 11 out of their 13 head-to-head matchups.

"This is what the double-bind for trans women athletes looks like: when we win, it's because we're transgender and it's unfair; when we lose, no one notices (and it's because we're just not that good anyway). Even when it's the SAME racer. That's what transphobia looks like," she posted on Twitter.

Stories about so-called dominant trans athletes are cherry-picked for use in moral panic narratives by far-right outlets. For months, conservative media outlets highlighted the story of CeCe Telfer, an NCAA Division II track and field athlete.

At the national championships, Telfer finished sixth in the 60-meter hurdles and failed to qualify for the final in her other event after coming in twelfth place during the preliminaries. None of the above sites reported on the event when it didn't play into the narrative about unfair advantage. "

https://www.cjr.org/criticism/caster-semenya.php
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#7
Related article from CT.
MALE RUNNERS CONTINUE DOMINATING GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL TRACK IN CONNECTICUT

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/2...cut-track/

Quote :
One of their competitors, high school junior Selina Soule, told the AP it was unfair to force female runners to compete against male runners.

"We all know the outcome of the race before it even starts; it's demoralizing," said Soule. "I fully support and am happy for these athletes for being true to themselves. They should have the right to express themselves in school, but athletics have always had extra rules to keep the competition fair."

Miller and Yearwood easily outpaced female runners in the state in 2018 as well, when both were sophomores.

A sympathetic segment on ABC's "Good Morning America" in June 2018 described the two runners as "dominating the competition" at the outdoor state championships earlier that month.

In that interview, Miller argued that female runners should work harder, rather than complaining about unfairness, when forced to compete against male athletes who identify as transgender.
"Female runners should work harder, rather than complaining." I love it!

Either give transgender folks rights or don't. But don't cry when their rights make you sad.
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Last edited by andyfico May 30, 2019 at 09:54 AM.
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#8
Quote from TRNT
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but my point solves your concern. why ruin this for all women because of a few Qs?
Women and men are inherently different (and I'll note for no confusion I speak in biological terms so attempts at semantics won't work here). Generally the "performance difference" arising from these physiological differences are on the 10-20% range.

"The gender gap [livestrong.com] in athletic performance, as shown in records from Olympic competition, has remained stable since 1983. The mean difference has been about 10 percent between men and women for all events. The mean gap is 10.7 percent for running, 8.9 percent for swimming and 17.5 percent for jumping. "

While it's difficult to directly translate these nebulous qualities to a specific sport, it should be obvious that if elite athlete men can generally run about 11% faster than elite athlete women, then that skill advantage probably also translates at least partially to running sports like soccer, etc.

Another source [sportsscientists.com]indicates there is a residual ~ 10% of performance benefit by simply having male physiology (e.g. different bone and muscle structure that is not negated with hormone suppression).

Generally "transitioning" involves some period (12 mo) of testosterone suppression then VOILA the man can now compete as a woman. There are lots of problems with this:
  • The natural physical and physiological differences between men and women when it comes to growth, maturation and performance are simply not negated by a 12-month window of testosterone suppression.
  • the serum testosterone limit set by the IOC for eligibility for competition (male-to-female transition) is considerably higher than typically seen in a female athlete.
  • for a sport like T&F, the implements are simply lighter for women vs. men (e.g. javelin, discus, shot-put, etc)

It's easier to evaluate the Olympics for numerous reasons including longevity of the games and the fact that being such a large organization it has to have some concrete transgender policies.

Bottom line is, suppressing testosterone in MtF transgenders does not make the man a woman. Not even close.
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#9
An insane world is being thrust upon the sane by a very small number of the insane.
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#10
Quote from Dr. J
:
Women and men are inherently different (and I'll note for no confusion I speak in biological terms so attempts at semantics won't work here). Generally the "performance difference" arising from these physiological differences are on the 10-20% range.

"The gender gap [livestrong.com] in athletic performance, as shown in records from Olympic competition, has remained stable since 1983. The mean difference has been about 10 percent between men and women for all events. The mean gap is 10.7 percent for running, 8.9 percent for swimming and 17.5 percent for jumping. "

While it's difficult to directly translate these nebulous qualities to a specific sport, it should be obvious that if elite athlete men can generally run about 11% faster than elite athlete women, then that skill advantage probably also translates at least partially to running sports like soccer, etc.

Another source [sportsscientists.com]indicates there is a residual ~ 10% of performance benefit by simply having male physiology (e.g. different bone and muscle structure that is not negated with hormone suppression).

Generally "transitioning" involves some period (12 mo) of testosterone suppression then VOILA the man can now compete as a woman. There are lots of problems with this:
  • The natural physical and physiological differences between men and women when it comes to growth, maturation and performance are simply not negated by a 12-month window of testosterone suppression.
  • the serum testosterone limit set by the IOC for eligibility for competition (male-to-female transition) is considerably higher than typically seen in a female athlete.
  • for a sport like T&F, the implements are simply lighter for women vs. men (e.g. javelin, discus, shot-put, etc)

It's easier to evaluate the Olympics for numerous reasons including longevity of the games and the fact that being such a large organization it has to have some concrete transgender policies.

Bottom line is, suppressing testosterone in MtF transgenders does not make the man a woman. Not even close.
i am a bit puzzled. are you under the impression that I am generally disagreeing with you or agreeing with you?

if it was not clear, i do not think, for example, males who are taking hormone therapy should compete in women's sports.
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#11
I say give the cultural marxists what they want.

Male sports will be dominated by competitors.

Female sports will be dominated by genetic males.
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#12
playing sports used to be a side activity and not a job/profession. sport players resembled average people. politics used to be a side/temporary activity. now we have lifetime, professional politicians. and we have professional sports figures who do not resemble normal human beings.

i guess we should thank cultural capitalists for that.
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#13
Quote from TRNT
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playing sports used to be a side activity and not a job/profession. sport players resembled average people. politics used to be a side/temporary activity. now we have lifetime, professional politicians. and we have professional sports figures who do not resemble normal human beings.

i guess we should thank cultural capitalists for that.
It still isn't a job/profession in most cases. The winner of Division II womens 400m hurdles isn't going to make any more money than the person who comes in second.
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#14
Quote from Dr. J
:
Women and men are inherently different (and I'll note for no confusion I speak in biological terms so attempts at semantics won't work here). Generally the "performance difference" arising from these physiological differences are on the 10-20% range.

"The gender gap [livestrong.com] in athletic performance, as shown in records from Olympic competition, has remained stable since 1983. The mean difference has been about 10 percent between men and women for all events. The mean gap is 10.7 percent for running, 8.9 percent for swimming and 17.5 percent for jumping. "

While it's difficult to directly translate these nebulous qualities to a specific sport, it should be obvious that if elite athlete men can generally run about 11% faster than elite athlete women, then that skill advantage probably also translates at least partially to running sports like soccer, etc.

Another source [sportsscientists.com]indicates there is a residual ~ 10% of performance benefit by simply having male physiology (e.g. different bone and muscle structure that is not negated with hormone suppression).

Generally "transitioning" involves some period (12 mo) of testosterone suppression then VOILA the man can now compete as a woman. There are lots of problems with this:
  • The natural physical and physiological differences between men and women when it comes to growth, maturation and performance are simply not negated by a 12-month window of testosterone suppression.
  • the serum testosterone limit set by the IOC for eligibility for competition (male-to-female transition) is considerably higher than typically seen in a female athlete.
  • for a sport like T&F, the implements are simply lighter for women vs. men (e.g. javelin, discus, shot-put, etc)

It's easier to evaluate the Olympics for numerous reasons including longevity of the games and the fact that being such a large organization it has to have some concrete transgender policies.

Bottom line is, suppressing testosterone in MtF transgenders does not make the man a woman. Not even close.
Absolutely agree with everything you said here. There is no amount of cutting, nipping, tucking, or injecting that will magically convert a biological man into a biological woman. The person will always be a man, regardless. And even a mostly testosterone free athletic man is still going to be more physically superior to the women he competes against.

The leftists pushing this nonsense have completely lost their minds. As you said, we might as well just do away with separating men and women in all sporting events going forward.
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#15
Quote from andyfico
:
Related article from CT.
MALE RUNNERS CONTINUE DOMINATING GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL TRACK IN CONNECTICUT

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/2...cut-track/



"Female runners should work harder, rather than complaining." I love it!

Either give transgender folks rights or don't. But don't cry when their rights make you sad.
If you can't make the cut as a male competing against other males, just become "female" and dominate the same sport as a "woman".

Absolutely bonkers.
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