Slickdeals Saves U! Congratulations Fall 2017 winners! Apply for our $2,500 Spring scholarships today Learn More
Forum Thread

Not So Easy, Is It? How Obama's struggles with disaster and war may be casting Bush's presidency in a more favorable light.

Demosthenes9 20,262 2,071 September 7, 2010 at 01:58 AM
From Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2265539/

Quote :
In November, George W. Bush will publish a memoir, Decision Points, in which he will try to put the tough moments of his presidency into perspective. His successor is already helping. On Sunday, President Obama spoke in New Orleans to commemorate the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. On Tuesday, he will speak to the nation about the final stage of the Iraq war. The back-to-back events could be called the Cleaning Up Bush's Messes Tourwhat many Democrats would call the entire Obama presidency so farand yet both events highlight Obama's struggles with disaster and war, potentially putting his predecessor in a more favorable light.
.........

Quote :
As for Obama, he is not consciously trying to improve the public's view of the Bush years. Indeed, he is actively reminding people of the mess he inherited from his predecessor. It is a key theme of the entire Democratic campaign. At the same time, as Obama demonstrates the natural limits of presidential action, he unwittingly adds perspective to assessments of what President Bush could do. As he benefits from policies he once opposedsuch as the surge in Iraq, which helped make tomorrow's speech possibleObama proves that even a smart politician with the best of intentions can be wrong. And as he champions making tough calls even in the face of popular opposition, he often sounds eerily like his predecessor.
.......

Quote :
The relevant similarity between the federal response to Katrina and the BP oil spill (other than geography) is that both show the limits of the presidency and the federal government. Of course, a hurricane is different from an oil spill, and it's not necessary, for the purposes of comparison, to pass judgment on Bush's or Obama's response. The point is that from a purely logistical standpoint, it's hard to get the federal bureaucracy to move quickly. That's true whether you think the president is uniquely incompetent or a smart manager. A president weighing the benefits and costs of making a visit to the disaster area can catch similar grief for not taking command whether they're photographed in a plane or on a basketball court. And even an eloquent speaker can sound the wrong note.
........

Quote :
Yet Obama's announcement Tuesday would not be possible were it not for a strategy that he adamantly opposed. When Bush announced the surge in January 2007, then-Sen. Obama not only fought the increase in troops, he opposed on more than one occasion the underlying approach (already in practice in Iraq) that the new troops were being sent to pursue.

Sen. Obama not only expected the surge to fail; he saw it, incorrectly, as yet another example of Bush's inability to adapt to reality. President Obama, at least, does not face that criticism. He has based his strategy in Afghanistan on the same counterinsurgency strategy that was central to Bush's surge. He's done more than borrow his predecessor's strategyhe's also borrowing his language. Of these two quotes, which is Obama and which is Bush?
A) "If I didn't think that it was important for our national security to finish the job then I would pull them out today, because I have to sign letters to these families who have lost loved ones."

B) "If we can't win, I'll pull us out. I'm not going to keep those kids in there and have to deal with their loved ones."


Of course, Obama largely gets a pass from the Media and definitely from the Liberals, both of who excoriated Bush seemingly non-stop.

23 Comments

1 2

Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.

This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Nov 2005
L10: Grand Master
9,029 Posts
811 Reputation
#2
Quote from Demosthenes9 View Post :
From Slate:

Quote :
his predecessor in a more favorable light
If Bush wishes to reinvigorate his 'thousand points of light', all he has to do is throw Darth Cheney under a bus (he'll have to enlist Laura's help).

Quote :
Obama largely gets a pass from the Media and definitely from the Liberals
Kinda makes you wonder if the 'Peace Prize' was preordained doesn't it?

Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined May 2007
chillin'
29,410 Posts
2,317 Reputation
#3
Quote from cruizerfish View Post :
Kinda makes you wonder if the 'Peace Prize' was preordained doesn't it?

The Nobel committee would give it over again in a heartbeat. Anyone who's willing to make american turn left and become Euro West is nobel material.
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
I've decided to start ignoring posters that believe in "alternative facts".... hard to make a blind person see anything
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
#4
How does the difficult nature of ending the war in Iraq cast the starting of the war in Iraq in a more favorable light?
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined May 2006
Comrade Curmudgeon
5,929 Posts
10 Reputation
#5
Quote from Mixels View Post :
How does the difficult nature of ending the war in Iraq cast the starting of the war in Iraq in a more favorable light?
... it is not about starting or stoping, it is about victory or defeat.

had Obama and the left had their way they would have snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory... but that would have been Bush's fault
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
--Ronald Reagan

Obamacare is like a bowel movement...you have to pass it to see what's in it

Quote :
day in and day out cops kill blacks--TRNT
Really, and yet she cannot give any examples...telling isn't it!
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Oct 2004
L8: Grand Teacher
3,155 Posts
10 Reputation
#6
Quote from horskj View Post :
... it is not about starting or stoping, it is about victory or defeat.

had Obama and the left had their way they would have snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory... but that would have been Bush's fault
If it's about victory or defeat, in this situation what is victory and what is defeat?
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
#7
Quote from horskj View Post :
... it is not about starting or stoping, it is about victory or defeat.

had Obama and the left had their way they would have snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory... but that would have been Bush's fault
What?
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Apr 2006
L10: Grand Master
22,695 Posts
4,149 Reputation
#8
Quote from horskj View Post :
... it is not about starting or stoping, it is about victory or defeat.

had Obama and the left had their way they would have snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory... but that would have been Bush's fault
So the withdrawal of combat troops in August 2010 is a "victory", while the withdrawal of combat troops in Aug 2008 would have been a "defeat"? Scratchhead
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -- John Morley

"I just helped your mother kill someone. That 'old lady' enough for you?" -- Tara Knowles

Sign up for a Slickdeals account to remove this ad.

This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Apr 2006
L10: Grand Master
22,695 Posts
4,149 Reputation
#9
Quote from horskj View Post :
two words... the surge




let me add a wordobtuse
So since we sent additional troops to Iraq for awhile, we know leave as "winners"?

What exactly did we so victoriously "win"? look around
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Aug 2009
L10: Grand Master
10,000 Posts
444 Reputation
#10
Quote from smegalicious View Post :
So since we sent additional troops to Iraq for awhile, we know leave as "winners"?

What exactly did we so victoriously "win"? look around
Stability and the deaths of thousands of America's enemies.
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined May 2006
Comrade Curmudgeon
5,929 Posts
10 Reputation
#11
Quote from smegalicious View Post :
So since we sent additional troops to Iraq for awhile, we know leave as "winners"?

What exactly did we so victoriously "win"? look around
...this is why I added the obtuse part
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Apr 2006
L10: Grand Master
22,695 Posts
4,149 Reputation
#12
Quote from Krazen1211 View Post :
Stability and the deaths of thousands of America's enemies.
We won stability?

Apparently, not everyone agrees w/that claim:

At the Iraq war's end, a shrug of uncertainty [washingtonpost.com]
The guarded language used to mark the end of combat was appropriate, for Iraq is in many ways an unfinished war. Its ultimate success or failure won't be clear for some years, when we can see whether Iraq has sustained its new democracy or plunged back into sectarian strife and political chaos.


And FWIW, how "unstable" was Iraq before the war? Scratchchin

Quote from horskj View Post :
...this is why I added the obtuse part
In order to avoid having to actually substantiate your claims?

Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
Last edited by smegalicious September 7, 2010 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Nov 2005
L10: Grand Master
9,029 Posts
811 Reputation
#13
Quote from Krazen1211 View Post :
Stability and the deaths of thousands of America's enemies.
We set the table up quite nicely for Iran didn't we? In addition we lost critical intel the Syrians were feeding us about Al-Qaeda... we could have done more with less sacrifice.

The Syrian Bet [newyorker.com]

Quote :
State Department officials have told me that by early 2002 Syria had emerged as one of the C.I.A.s most effective intelligence allies in the fight against Al Qaeda, providing an outpouring of information that came to an end only with the invasion of Iraq.
Quote :
after September 11th the Syrian leader, Bashar Assad, initiated the delivery of Syrian intelligence to the United States. The Syrians had compiled hundreds of files on Al Qaeda, including dossiers on the men who participatedand others who wanted to participatein the September 11th attacks. Syria also penetrated Al Qaeda cells throughout the Middle East and in Arab exile communities throughout Europe. That data began flowing to C.I.A. and F.B.I. operatives.
Quote :
Syria also provided the United States with intelligence about future Al Qaeda plans. In one instance, the Syrians learned that Al Qaeda had penetrated the security services of Bahrain and had arranged for a glider loaded with explosives to be flown into a building at the U.S. Navys 5th Fleet headquarters there. Flynt Leverett, a former C.I.A. analyst who served until early this year on the National Security Council and is now a fellow at the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution, told me that Syrias help let us thwart an operation that, if carried out, would have killed a lot of Americans. The Syrians also helped the United States avert a suspected plot against an American target in Ottawa.
Quote :
Up through January of 2003, the cooperation was topnotch, a former State Department official said. Then we were going to do Iraq, and some people in the Administration got heavy- handed. They wanted Syria to get involved in operational stuff having nothing to do with Al Qaeda and everything to do with Iraq. It was something Washington wanted from the Syrians, and they didnt want to do it.
Note to mods: This may appear like a large block of text but it is a 5 page article. Smilie
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined May 2006
Comrade Curmudgeon
5,929 Posts
10 Reputation
#14
Quote from smegalicious View Post :
We won stability?

Apparently, not everyone agrees w/that claim:

At the Iraq war's end, a shrug of uncertainty [washingtonpost.com]
The guarded language used to mark the end of combat was appropriate, for Iraq is in many ways an unfinished war. Its ultimate success or failure won't be clear for some years, when we can see whether Iraq has sustained its new democracy or plunged back into sectarian strife and political chaos.


And FWIW, how "unstable" was Iraq before the war? Scratchchin


In order to avoid having to actually substantiate your claims?

Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)


Not it at all just dont have the stomach right now to go in circles with you
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
This comment has been rated as unhelpful by Slickdeals users
Joined Apr 2006
L10: Grand Master
22,695 Posts
4,149 Reputation
#15
Quote from horskj View Post :
Not it at all just dont have the stomach right now to go in circles with you
You're absolutely right. How rude of me to ask you critical questions regarding your opinion on a debate forum. Comfort
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
Page 1 of 2
1 2
Join the Conversation
Add a Comment
 
Copyright 1999 - 2017. Slickdeals, LLC. All Rights Reserved. Copyright / Infringement Policy  •  Privacy Policy  •  Terms of Service  •  Acceptable Use Policy (Rules)  •  Interest-Based Ads
Slickdeals members have saved over $4,000,000,000 since 2007 Join Now
Link Copied to Clipboard