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Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich take on White House over legality of drone strikes

NotEasyBeingSavage 7,749 21 November 29, 2012 at 12:12 PM
Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich take on White House over legality of drone strikes

Quote :
Democratic Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Republican Texas Rep. Ron Paul and Democratic New Jersey Rep. Rush Holt Jr. are challenging the Obama administration to release documents it uses to legally justify drone strikes overseas.

If passed by Congress, their "resolution of inquiry" would require Attorney General Eric Holder to "transmit to the House of Representatives not later than 14 days after the date of the adoption of this resolution, any documents and legal memoranda in the Attorney General's possession relating to the practice of targeted killing of United States citizens and targets abroad."

In a statement released on Wednesday, Kucinich said national security concerns do not justify unconstitutional measures.

"We must reject the notion that protecting our national security requires revoking the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens. No president can act as judge, jury and executioner, and any attempt to do so is in direct violation of our Constitution, which gives our citizens a right to life and a fair trial," Kucinich said.

"According to a memorandum prepared by the White House Office of Legal Counsel, when the United States conducts such an attack it is legal. The Congress and the American people have a right to know this legal framework. Congress has an obligation as the sole authority under the Constitution to declare war to know how the use of force abroad is being used, especially against U.S. citizens."
This is great news in terms of protecting our civil rights. Hopefully we will get a full answer on the legal justification of targeting Americans instead of the song and dance we typically get. To paraphrase Leon Panetta: They are terrorists first, and Americans second. The President decides what is legal.

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#61
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
Check your quote. I said "lack of oil."
I know. Check your own quote. That's why I added "cheap" in there. Because you linked collapsing the economy to oil at double the current price. So that wouldn't be a "lack of oil," it'd be a lack of cheap oil.
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
If you don't stop misrepresenting me, I'll no longer be responding to your misrepresentations.
I'm not misrepresenting you. You misrepresent yourself, as shown above. If you want to stop responding to me, feel free. It'd save me the trouble of having to properly represent your misrepresentations.
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#62
Peak oil is another myth. I believe we have used about 1 trillion barrels of oil since the industrial revolution. I think the Dakotas have about 3 Trillion in reserves alone, let alone all the other areas of the world.
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Time to stop the war.....on businesses and individual success!

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#63
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
And it's what Israel does to Gazans.
Only after being on the receiving end of hundreds and hundreds of rockets.

Anyway, what should a countries response be to our drone and missile attacks? Do you share the same opinion as our president does on such attacks?

"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
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#64
Quote from homers View Post :
Only after being on the receiving end of hundreds and hundreds of rockets.

Anyway, what should a countries response be to our drone and missile attacks? Do you share the same opinion as our president does on such attacks?

"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
who has claimed Israel should "tolerate" missiles raining down on its citizens?

this is what happens when you totally control the megaphone. after a while people actually believe that Palestinians fire missiles for no reason whatsoever. so such a complex issue then is reduced to "no country would or should tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens."
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#65
Quote from Deusxmachina View Post :
I know. Check your own quote. That's why I added "cheap" in there. Because you linked collapsing the economy to oil at double the current price. So that wouldn't be a "lack of oil," it'd be a lack of cheap oil.
Applying what I said in one quote, to a different quote is dishonest.

Obviously lack of oil and lack of cheap oil have different effects and I stated that, but you've conflated the two to build a strawman. Stop it.

Quote :
I'm not misrepresenting you. You misrepresent yourself, as shown above. If you want to stop responding to me, feel free. It'd save me the trouble of having to properly represent your misrepresentations.
There is no need for you to "represent me" at all. People here can read what I write, so stick to your own ideas rather than restating what I write, cause you never get it right.
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#66
Quote from homers View Post :
Only after being on the receiving end of hundreds and hundreds of rockets.

Anyway, what should a countries response be to our drone and missile attacks? Do you share the same opinion as our president does on such attacks?

"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
I think if we had the full cooperation of those countries in the pursuit of terrorists plotting against us there, we would either have their permission to bomb them, or wouldn't need to.

Should we just sit idly by while they plot to kill Americans?
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#67
Quote from homers View Post :
Only after being on the receiving end of hundreds and hundreds of rockets.

Anyway, what should a countries response be to our drone and missile attacks? Do you share the same opinion as our president does on such attacks?

"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
Drones are inside the border when they rain down missiles. Totally different circumstances. Wink
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#68
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
Applying what I said in one quote, to a different quote is dishonest.

Obviously lack of oil and lack of cheap oil have different effects and I stated that, but you've conflated the two to build a strawman. Stop it.

There is no need for you to "represent me" at all. People here can read what I write, so stick to your own ideas rather than restating what I write, cause you never get it right.
Your posts are disingenuous.

You said:
"However, unlike ideologues, I recognize that our economy would collapse w/o oil.
Or even with just a doubling of the price."

Ergo, our economy would collapse with oil at double the price. And now you're backtracking and claiming restating what you said is dishonest even though that's what you said. Your ONLY possible claim would be the labeling of current $3.50-$4 oil as "cheap." But even that is merely nitpicking and doesn't have an effect on what you stated.
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#69
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
I think if we had the full cooperation of those countries in the pursuit of terrorists plotting against us there, we would either have their permission to bomb them, or wouldn't need to.

Should we just sit idly by while they plot to kill Americans?
Do you really believe we have the full cooperation of the gov'ts where our drones are in their sovereign airspace? Given some of our stealth drones, not knowing is not the same as permission.
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#70
Quote from homers View Post :
Do you really believe we have the full cooperation of the gov'ts where our drones are in their sovereign airspace? Given some of our stealth drones, not knowing is not the same as permission.
No, and I didn't say we did.

The reason we're attacking people in their territory is cause we don't have full cooperation of their governments in the apprehension of terrorists plotting against us.
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#71
Quote from Deusxmachina View Post :
Your posts are disingenuous.

You said:
"However, unlike ideologues, I recognize that our economy would collapse w/o oil.
Or even with just a doubling of the price."

Ergo, our economy would collapse with oil at double the price. And now you're backtracking and claiming restating what you said is dishonest even though that's what you said. Your ONLY possible claim would be the labeling of current $3.50-$4 oil as "cheap." But even that is merely nitpicking and doesn't have an effect on what you stated.
Oil is not $4. $4/gal gas is not cheap.

Stop rephrasing what I write, cause you never get it right.

Our economy would collapse w/o oil.

If the price doubled overnight, it would be a severe blow, which would collapse the economy at least temporarily.

If it doubled over the long term, probably not a collapse, but probably slower growth or recession.

So you see, reality is more complex than your simplistic misrepresentations of what I write.

Instead of making erroneous misrepresentations you could ask for clarification; if your motivation was understanding instead of attacking.
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#72
Quote from homers View Post :
Do you really believe we have the full cooperation of the gov'ts where our drones are in their sovereign airspace? Given some of our stealth drones, not knowing is not the same as permission.
Does it really have to be "full"??? Smilie

Maybe it is me, maybe I am too sensitive, or maybe it is my bias in this case but when I see words like this I assume the poster needs them to boost their argument.

At any rate........do you have a case where you think it is an epitome of fully (Smilie) invading the sovereign airspace of a country with which we are not at war?

In the past day or so I saw a 60-min type program about a war hero who was killed by two attackers 20 or 30 years ago. One of the killers (not the trigger man) was sentenced to 15 years but after 5 years escaped the prison, joined the black panthers and with 7 others hijacked a Delta plane to Algiers with $1M ransom money in exchange of releasing 50 or so hostages. The money was returned but the men were given amnesty by the Algiers gov. Long story short there were all later captured but this killer. He assumed a new identity and went to many countries. In recent years he was hunted down by the FBI and other agencies. He is now in Portugal married to a Dutch woman and has children. Portugal refused to turn him over. The children and grandchildren of the victim are in total mess. They have have been showcased in Congress and the US gov badly wants this killer to be returned so he would pay for his crime. You would think the US would have already just used a drone and take this person out. Hmm.....
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#73
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :
No, and I didn't say we did.

The reason we're attacking people in their territory is cause we don't have full cooperation of their governments in the apprehension of terrorists plotting against us.
So the people getting droned have a right to retaliate against us, right?
"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
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#74
Quote from 124nic8 View Post :

Our economy would collapse w/o oil.
So, then it is in our national interest not be be dependent on foreign oil. Given we have huge amounts of both oil and natural gas reserves, we should truly stimulate the US economy by drilling and using our resources. Lot's of high pay jobs in the US, less to no oil money being sent to many countries who wants to harm us.
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#75
Quote from homers View Post :
So the people getting droned have a right to retaliate against us, right?
"There's not a country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders," Mr. Obama said.
this should be good...
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