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Images of NRA, Congressional Republicans on the decline

23,116 462 January 10, 2013 at 05:23 PM
Images of NRA, Congressional Republicans on the decline [publicpolicypolling.com]

Quote :
The NRA now has a negative favorability rating, with 42% of voters seeing it positively while 45% have an unfavorable view. That represents a 10 point net decline in the NRA's favorability from the week before the press conference when a national poll we did found it at 48/41. Its image has taken a hit with both Democrats (from 29/59 to 22/67) and Republicans (71/19 to 66/18).

The holidays and the fiscal cliff took a lot of the spotlight off gun control measures, but in general 53% of Americans say they support stricter gun laws with 40% opposed.

Congress emerged from the fiscal cliff debate with a 7% approval rating, with 81% of voters disapproving of it. But the two parties aren't going in for equal blame. While the Democrats in Congress aren't popular (-12 at 38/50) their approval rating is a net 48 points better than their Republican counterparts (-60 at 15/75).The Republicans in Congress have only a 25/61 approval rating even with the GOP base, suggesting the potential for 2014 to bring a lot of primary challenges.
Seems the support for the NRA expressed here is not shared by the public in general.

Of course some would have us believe that's "the media's" fault and not irresponsible gun owners whose guns fall into the wrong hands.

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#61
Quote from TRNT
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15 was used by the other poster. 200 was not by me or the other poster. So I do not see your point.

And I have never been to a gun show. I am guessing private sellers can show in some (states') gun show but I am willing to accept your point. I often refer to it as "private sale" and rarely mentioned "gun shows."
My point is what does it matter that 15 > 10?
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MakeAmericaGrr..HateAgain
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#62
Quote from onscreen
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You said, " And if we agree that 10 is sufficient". We were pointing out that many people don't agree that 15 is enough. Do you think 15 is enough or were you again just running with that number?
I said what I wanted to say and I say it again:

IF 10 is enough, 15 is too many even if the clip fits in your....err.....nostril. So the fact that it fits in your .....err... nostril means diddly. That is all.
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#63
Quote from OhNoItsDEVO
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I don't know about it being an infringement, I just don't see how you would enforce something like that.
So you have no opinion on the legality of such ban? Come on...any guesses?
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#64
Quote from mmathis
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My point is what does it matter that 15 > 10?
Because ****** IF ****** 10 is enough then 15 is more than enough (by self evidence and by definition even if the clip with 15 is a small clip.

One could argue that 15 is needed for variety of reasons including for self defense. Then one could forward the silly argument that some 15 clips are small which is.... well.....a silly thing to say.
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#65
Quote from TRNT
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Because ****** IF ****** 10 is enough then 15 is more than enough (by self evidence and by definition even if the clip with 15 is a small clip.

One could argue that 15 is needed for variety of reasons including for self defense. Then one could forward the silly argument that some 15 clips are small which is.... well.....a silly thing to say.
If 10 is enough, then it doesn't matter how big the magazines are as people will just load 10 rounds in them.

A 15 round magazine for my S&W would be small - the factory mags hold 17, which is not silly at all, since that's what the gun is designed to hold.
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#66
Quote from TRNT
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Because ****** IF ****** 10 is enough then 15 is more than enough (by self evidence and by definition even if the clip with 15 is a small clip.

One could argue that 15 is needed for variety of reasons including for self defense. Then one could forward the silly argument that some 15 clips are small which is.... well.....a silly thing to say.
It is my life and family to protect and I need to carry as many rounds as I can. Who are you to tell anyone what is enough?

10 rounds is not enough.

Actual restrictions:
Function
Weight
Size
Balance of firearm when loaded
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#67
Quote from mmathis
:
If 10 is enough, then it doesn't matter how big the magazines are as people will just load 10 rounds in them.

A 15 round magazine for my S&W would be small - the factory mags hold 17, which is not silly at all, since that's what the gun is designed to hold.
If 10 is enough for legitimate reasons we would like to limit it to ten so 15 will not be used for illegitimate reasons.

And if 10 is enough, 15 can and should be banned even if 15 has small dimensions.
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#68
Quote from RealtyViking
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It is my life and family to protect and I need to carry as many rounds as I can. Who are you to tell anyone what is enough?

10 rounds is not enough.
I am a voter. In a democracy people have votes. I could consider 15 a danger to me when it is in wrong hands. So I vote for politicians who would vote for banning 15.

Do you consider the below a violation of the 2ndA?

1. limiting clips to a specific number, be it 10 or 20 or 1000?
2. banning resale of guns altogether?

I stumbled upon this question (#2 above) by accident. I am not saying I invented it, or I was the first, only that I thought about it myself. So I asked this question hers and I noticed people simply do not want to answer it. However, I can also say that not a single person has come forward and claimed banning resale of guns is a violation of the 2ndA. I think that is just amazing. Hmm.....
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#69
Quote from CyberGuy
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Do you consider yourself to be under this category?
To some extent. As a whole they strike me as a bunch of latent homosexuals - constantly chomping big cigars while showing off their 26" and 28" guns.
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#70
Quote from TRNT
:
I am a voter. In a democracy people have votes. I could consider 15 a danger to me when it is in wrong hands. So I vote for politicians who would vote for banning 15.

Do you consider the below a violation of the 2ndA?

1. limiting clips to a specific number, be it 10 or 20 or 1000?
2. banning resale of guns altogether?

I stumbled upon this question (#2 above) by accident. I am not saying I invented it, or I was the first, only that I thought about it myself. So I asked this question hers and I noticed people simply do not want to answer it. However, I can also say that not a single person has come forward and claimed banning resale of guns is a violation of the 2ndA. I think that is just amazing. Hmm.....
First of all, we live in a constitutional republic. You, as a voter, are welcome to support an ammendment to the Constitution through your representatives.

Any limitation on an individual right is suspect. It is you who needs to put forth some evidence that these restirctions are needed. So give us factual information that supports these restrictions. Otherwise you are putting everyone who is using firearms for protection at risk.
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#71
Quote from TRNT
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I said what I wanted to say and I say it again:

IF 10 is enough, 15 is too many even if the clip fits in your....err.....nostril. So the fact that it fits in your .....err... nostril means diddly. That is all.
Do you think 10 is enough? If not how many is?
What does my nostril have to do with anything?
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#72
Quote from onscreen
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Do you think 10 is enough? If not how many is?
What does my nostril have to do with anything?
I am willing to listen to unbiased experts to tell me how many is the optimum number for self-defense.
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#73
Quote from TRNT
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I am willing to listen to unbiased experts to tell me how many is the optimum number for self-defense.
What is your definition of unbiased? Can you cite such an expert or are you evading the question.

Here is an expert who clearly does not agree with you.
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com...n-control/
Quote from expert :
We should ban magazines over X number of shots!
I've seen this one pop up a lot. It sounds good to the ear and really satisfies that we've got to do something need. It sounds simple. Bad guys shoot a lot of people in a mass shooting. So if he has magazines that hold fewer rounds, ergo then he'll not be able to shoot as many people.
Wrong. And I'll break it down, first why my side wants more rounds in our gun, second why tactically it doesn't really stop the problem, and third, why stopping them is a logistical impossibility.
First off, why do gun owners want magazines that hold more rounds? Because sometimes you miss. Because usually—contrary to the movies—you have to hit an opponent multiple times in order to make them stop. Because sometimes you may have multiple assailants. We don't have more rounds in the magazine so we can shoot more, we have more rounds in the magazine so we are forced to manipulate our gun less if we have to shoot more.
The last assault weapons ban capped capacities at ten rounds. You quickly realize ten rounds sucks when you take a wound ballistics class like I have and go over case after case after case after case of enraged, drug addled, prison hardened, perpetrators who soaked up five, seven, nine, even fifteen bullets and still walked under their own power to the ambulance. That isn't uncommon at all. Legally, you can shoot them until they cease to be a threat, and keep in mind that what normally causes a person to stop is loss of blood pressure, so I used to tell my students that anybody worth shooting once was worth shooting five or seven times. You shoot them until they leave you alone.
Also, you're going to miss. It is going to happen. If you can shoot pretty little groups at the range, those groups are going to expand dramatically under the stress and adrenalin. The more you train, the better you will do, but you can still may miss, or the bad guy may end up hiding behind something which your bullets don't penetrate. Nobody has ever survived a gunfight and then said afterwards, "Darn, I wish I hadn't brought all that extra ammo."
So having more rounds in the gun is a good thing for self-defense use.
Now tactically, let's say a mass shooter is on a rampage in a school. Unless his brain has turned to mush and he's a complete idiot, he's not going to walk up right next to you while he reloads anyway. Unlike the CCW holder who gets attacked and has to defend himself in whatever crappy situation he finds himself in, the mass shooter is the aggressor. He's picked the engagement range. They are cowards who are murdering running and hiding children, but don't for a second make the mistake of thinking they are dumb. Many of these scumbags are actually very intelligent. They're just broken and evil.
In the cases that I'm aware of where the shooter had guns that held fewer rounds they just positioned themselves back a bit while firing or they brought more guns, and simply switched guns and kept on shooting, and then reloaded before they moved to the next planned firing position. Unless you are a fumble fingered idiot, anybody who practices in front of a mirror a few dozen times can get to where they can insert a new magazine into a gun in a few seconds.
A good friend of mine (who happens to be a very reasonable democrat) was very hung up on this, sure that he would be able to take advantage of the time in which it took for the bad guy to reload his gun. That's a bad assumption, and here's yet another article that addresses that sort of misconception that I wrote several years ago which has sort of made the rounds on firearm's forums. http://www.northeastshooters.com/...r-Box-quot So that's awesome if it happens, but good luck with that.
Finally, let's look at the logistical ramifications of another magazine ban. The AWB banned the production of all magazines over ten rounds except those marked for military or law enforcement use, and it was a felony to possess those.
Over the ten years of the ban, we never ran out. Not even close. Magazines are cheap and basic. Most of them are pieces of sheet metal with some wire. That's it. Magazines are considered disposable so most gun people accumulate a ton of them. All it did was make magazines more expensive, ticked off law abiding citizens, and didn't so much as inconvenience a single criminal.
Meanwhile, bad guys didn't run out either. And if they did, like I said, they are cheap and basic, so you just get or make more. If you can cook meth, you can make a functioning magazine. My old company designed a rifle magazine once, and I'm no engineer. I paid a CAD guy, spent $20,000 and churned out several thousand 20 round Saiga .308 mags. This could've been done out of my garage.
Ten years. No difference. Meanwhile, we had bad guys turning up all the time committing crimes, and guess what was marked on the mags found in their guns? MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY. Because once again, if you're already breaking a bunch of laws, they can only hang you once. Criminals simply don't care.
Once the AWB timed out, because every politician involved looked at the mess which had been passed in the heat of the moment, the fact it did nothing, and the fact that every single one of them from a red state would lose their job if they voted for a new one, it expired and went away. Immediately every single gun person in America went out and bought a couple guns which had been banned and a bucket of new magazines, because nothing makes an American want to do something more than telling them they can't. We've been stocking up ever since. If the last ban did literally nothing at all over a decade, and since then we've purchased another hundred million magazines since then, another ban will do even less. (except just make the law abiding that much angrier, and I'll get to that below).
I bought $600 worth of magazines for my competition pistol this morning. I've already got a shelf full for my rifles. Gun and magazine sales skyrocket every time a democrat politician starts to vulture in on a tragedy. I don't know if many of you realize this, but Barack Obama is personally responsible for more gun sales, and especially first time gun purchases, than anyone in history. When I owned my gun store, we had a picture of him on the wall and a caption beneath it which said SALESMAN OF THE YEAR.
So you can ban this stuff, but it won't actually do anything to the crimes you want to stop. Unless you think you can confiscate them all, but I'll talk about confiscation later.
One last thing to share about the magazine ban from the AWB, and this is something all gun people know, but most anti-gunners do not. When you put an artificial cap on a weapon, and tell us that we can only have a limited number of rounds in that weapon, we're going to make sure they are the most potent rounds possible. Before the ban, everybody bought 9mms which held an average of 15 rounds. After the ban, if I can only have ten rounds, they're going to be bigger, so we all started buying 10 shot .45s instead.
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#74
Just to restate my previous position that I didn't make totally clear. I think any magazine that fits into a pistol grip no larger than some maximum dimension would be a reasonable limit. This way you can keep totally reasonable 20+ round .22s, 15-ish round 9mms, and 10 round .45s.

I only happened to use 10 and 30 as examples because some people like the number ten. My gun has a 9 round mag in .45 GAP (which is cheaper than ACP right now because of all of the crazy talk on the hill Stick Out Tongue).
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Last edited by NotEasyBeingSavage January 11, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
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#75
Quote from onscreen
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What is your definition of unbiased? Can you cite such an expert or are you evading the question.

Here is an expert who clearly does not agree with you.
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com...n-control/
This guy makes that argument I hate so much "We needs lots of bullets so we can shoot more and manipulate our gun less" and "When bad guys need to manipulate their gun more it's not a big deal because it's so easy to switch mags."

Which is it? Meaningless because you can switch mags quickly, or meaningful because you can shoot more and manipulate the gun less?
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