Forum Thread

The Danger of Guns at Home

Rebound 17,511 1,013 February 3, 2013 at 06:27 PM
A gun in your home is far more likely to kill you or a loved one than protect you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0

In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides.

The cost-benefit balance of having a gun in the home is especially negative for women, according to a 2011 review by David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Far from making women safer, a gun in the home is "a particularly strong risk factor" for female homicides and the intimidation of women.

In domestic violence situations, the risk of homicide for women increased eightfold when the abuser had access to firearms, according to a study published in The American Journal of Public Health in 2003. Further, there was "no clear evidence" that victims' access to a gun reduced their risk of being killed. Another 2003 study, by Douglas Wiebe of the University of Pennsylvania, found that females living with a gun in the home were 2.7 times more likely to be murdered than females with no gun at home.
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#16
Quote from DJPlayer View Post :
1. You have suicides (which absolutely dominate in terms of percentage).
2. Then you have gang violence.. (ya that one sorta struck em also).
Lets look at the data again:
"RESULTS: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."
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Last edited by Rebound February 3, 2013 at 08:15 PM.
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#17
Quote from Rebound View Post :
A gun in your home is far more likely to kill you or a loved one than protect you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03....html?_r=0

In the 1990s, a team headed by Arthur Kellermann of Emory University looked at all injuries involving guns kept in the home in Memphis, Seattle and Galveston, Tex. They found that these weapons were fired far more often in accidents, criminal assaults, homicides or suicide attempts than in self-defense. For every instance in which a gun in the home was shot in self-defense, there were seven criminal assaults or homicides, four accidental shootings, and 11 attempted or successful suicides.

The cost-benefit balance of having a gun in the home is especially negative for women, according to a 2011 review by David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Far from making women safer, a gun in the home is "a particularly strong risk factor" for female homicides and the intimidation of women.

In domestic violence situations, the risk of homicide for women increased eightfold when the abuser had access to firearms, according to a study published in The American Journal of Public Health in 2003. Further, there was "no clear evidence" that victims' access to a gun reduced their risk of being killed. Another 2003 study, by Douglas Wiebe of the University of Pennsylvania, found that females living with a gun in the home were 2.7 times more likely to be murdered than females with no gun at home.
I'm sorry, but is this where the idea 'A gun is more likely to kill you, or a family member' comes from? A study of three 'cherry picked' cities?

Is this a joke? I always thought it'd be easy enough to get nationwide data on this topic, why limit to three 'random' cities?
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#18
Quote from Rebound View Post :
Another example: Why did Chris Kyle die? Among other things... He was around guns and gun-toting people all the time.
Has any President committed suicide?

Last I checked, they are surrounded by guns almost 24/7.
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#19
Quote from Rebound View Post :
Yup. Apparently, suicides are often unsuccessful. But suicides with guns usually work. Maybe that's the thing.

Another example: Why did Chris Kyle die? Among other things... He was around guns and gun-toting people all the time.


I'd guessing that's about 1 person per every 300k people (difference between pre gun ban and today. But the medical field (specifically more advanced drugs) have already taken credit for the tiniest decrease in suicide rate..

To be honest I'm not sure what the point of the current attempted gun legislation is.. The statistics just don't back up the plan. At least if you told me you wanted to force people to drive with football helmets on it would have a clear and decisive point. Actually I could see it being decently effective.

If you wanted to ban cigarettes the point would be pretty obvious.. as would getting rid of tanning booths.

But not it's February and the gun talk is over.. I believe it's immigration reform month.. Gun regulation month is now over.
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"The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses." -Malcolm X-
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#20
Quote from Dr. J View Post :
guns are not the boogeyman.
guns are the boogeyman. they run wild through the forest looking to rape and murder your families.

"HIDE YO KIDS, hide your wife and your husbands 'cuz they're rapin' everybody out hea."

in all seriousness I want to know how many violent crimes have been PREVENTED by the presence of a gun without a round being fired. There are no statistics from that, but many people have claimed to have it happen.
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#21
Quote from Danman114 View Post :
I'm sorry, but is this where the idea 'A gun is more likely to kill you, or a family member' comes from? A study of three 'cherry picked' cities?

Is this a joke? I always thought it'd be easy enough to get nationwide data on this topic, why limit to three 'random' cities?
Yup. That's where that oft repeated pure bullshit comes from.

It's completely fabricated, but of course, truth doesn't matter when it comes to guns....

Quote from goforvendingtof View Post :
guns are the boogeyman. they run wild through the forest looking to rape and murder your families.

"HIDE YO KIDS, hide your wife and your husbands 'cuz they're rapin' everybody out hea."

in all seriousness I want to know how many violent crimes have been PREVENTED by the presence of a gun without a round being fired. There are no statistics from that, but many people have claimed to have it happen.
Actually, there are statistics on that.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
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Last edited by Elmer February 3, 2013 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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the GOP, which will lose the Presidency, the Senate, and maybe even the House of Representatives. And then, Hillary Clinton will appoint the most liberal, lesbian, man-hating bitch of a Supreme Court Justice that you've ever seen, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. And why? Because the American Voter is smart, and Donald Trump is stupid........

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#22
Quote from Danman114 View Post :
Has any President committed suicide?

Last I checked, they are surrounded by guns almost 24/7.
Funny how Japan manages to have a suicide rate almost double that of the US [wikipedia.org], with virtually no guns.
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#23
Quote from Rebound View Post :
Lets look at the data again:
"RESULTS: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."
You begin with the presumption that in order to be useful in self-defense, the gun must be fired or used in a justifiable shooting. That presumption is incorrect from the get go.
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#24
Quote from onscreen View Post :
LMAOLMAOLMAO
Driven by a BS agenda?! HA HA!!
I've seen your posts.
LMAOlaugh out loudLMAO
I figured onscreen's pacifism in these gun threads with this crowd would crack sooner or later.
Quote from Danman114 View Post :
Has any President committed suicide?

Last I checked, they are surrounded by guns almost 24/7.
Here's another question: Four Presidents have been killed with guns. Of those four, how many have been killed with "assault" weapons?
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#25
Ban suicide.

What do I win?
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#26
Quote from Danman114 View Post :
I'm sorry, but is this where the idea 'A gun is more likely to kill you, or a family member' comes from? A study of three 'cherry picked' cities?

Is this a joke? I always thought it'd be easy enough to get nationwide data on this topic, why limit to three 'random' cities?
Are they "cherry picked" or are they "random"? Honestly, what is the claim here?
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#27
Quote from Rebound View Post :
Lets look at the data again:
"RESULTS: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."
Doesn't including Memphis skew the results?
Memphis has one of the highest crime rates of any city in the country.
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#28
Quote from Elmer View Post :
Funny how Japan manages to have a suicide rate almost double that of the US [wikipedia.org], with virtually no guns.
How can that be....

Quote from darkfrog View Post :
You begin with the presumption that in order to be useful in self-defense, the gun must be fired or used in a justifiable shooting. That presumption is incorrect from the get go.
That's a good point. I would assume that many of those events would go unreported.
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Last edited by OhNoItsDEVO February 4, 2013 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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#29
Quote from OhNoItsDEVO View Post :
Doesn't including Memphis skew the results?
Memphis has one of the highest crime rates of any city in the country.
Ooooh... Using Memohis makes it unfair! Should they have used Oakland, New York, Detroit, Washington... Or would they be unfair, too?

Maybe if the NRA hadn't blocked Federal funding for these studies, data would be readily available for all cities, or maybe even for the entire population of the country.
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#30
Quote from DJPlayer View Post :
To be honest I'm not sure what the point of the current attempted gun legislation is.. The statistics just don't back up the plan. At least if you told me you wanted to force people to drive with football helmets on it would have a clear and decisive point. Actually I could see it being decently effective.
I'd think the increase in blind spot would decrease the effects of any safety gained by the helmet (which is probably redundant if you're wearing your seatbelt and have airbags).

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