Forum Thread

Online Appliance and HVACR help for SD members

BikerEric 16,541 1,607 May 10, 2008 at 07:37 PM
I will do my best to help any and all in the repair or diagnostic of any appliance.
My expertise comes from 30 years of doing the work and 20 plus of running and owning an appliance and HVACR company.
All I ask of you is to follow these rules and suggestions:


Remember to include your model and serial numbers in your post!

I can't tell you how many times loungers ask me for help repairing their appliance and they either give me a bad model number or none at all. Without a valid model number, I can't look up diagrams or find out anything about your appliance. So, here are:


the Ten Commandments for BikerEric's Online Appliance Help




1. Ye shall read the model number directly off the manufacturer's tag affixed to the appliance., not from the owners guide!

2. Ye shall use these diagrams to help you locate the manufacturer's tag if you are having trouble.

Window Air Conditioners
[partselect.com]
Dishwashers [partselect.com]
Dryer [partselect.com]
Freezer [partselect.com]
Stove or oven [partselect.com]
Refrigerators [partselect.com]
Washing Machine [partselect.com]
Trash Compactor [partselect.com]


3. Ye shall speak of the Brand Name

4. Ye shall mention if the appliance is electric or gas (natural or LPG [propane])

5. Ye shall speak of the configuration of the offending machine ie.side by side, front load

6. Ye shall speak precisely of the problem. not just it's broke , it doesn't work

7. Ye shall understand that I may ask for pictures if possible

8. Ye shall know and understand that I am doing this on line, So I may ask you to do a check on something. I have no idea how handy you are or what your abilities are, So you are doing these checks on your own responsibility. If you feel that it is beyond your ability , PLEASE let me know! BikerEric nor SlickDeals assumes any responsibility for your aptitude or abilities

9. Ye shall not blame BE if his diagnostics might be not be correct

10. Ye shall offer up thy praises in the form of reps or better yet as a donation to a local charity

11. Ye shall keep this tread "chit-chat" free and on topic

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BikerEric's Online Guide to buying or replacing Major Appliances and HVACR


Please understand that I am very opinionated about brands and manufacturers . My opinions come my experience on working on these units and my dealing with the manufacturers. I scan the newspaper ads weekly to see who has the best price for the best products! I am not a pricing service. I do not work for or have any support from the manufacturers or from the dealers!


1 Ye shall explain what appliance you are replacing

2 Ye shall explain in detail what you would like to buy or purchase

3 Ye shall understand that my questions to you ( while seemingly personal) are to help you realize whether an appliance will work for you.



Ahem!
Ahem again


Current Appliance Rebates and Forms

Appliance Recallsupdated when recalls are announced.

Links to repairs:
Frozen Drain Line
Cleaning a Condensing Unit
Cleaning you refrigerator's fan and coil
Testing Whirlpool Modular Style IceMaker
Why BE does NOT recommend Front Load Washing Machines
Replace door cam on sxs refrigerator door
6 Ways to avoid appliance problems
How to replace a Kenmore/Whirlpool/Roper/KitchenAid/Kirkland Automatic Washing Machine Coupler
How to install a Kenmore/Whirlpool/KitchenAid/Kirkland Automatic Washing Machine Lid Switch
The back of a whirlpool electric dryer [applianceaid.com]
How to replace the defrost heater(s) , defrost termination tstat and defrost timer in a GE SxS refrigerator
still under construction

July 12, 2010, 3:24 pm: System Notice: This thread has been automatically renewed after reaching a post limit. Most of its content has been moved to this thread for reference purposes.

Community Wiki

Last Edited by daniel32 May 28, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Soccer

Please have model and serial number available for assistance.

donation to local charity optional, but preferred.





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Joined Aug 2004
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#136
Quote from coolcat View Post :
Since no one responded to my post, and I found the solution myself, I am posting this for the benefit of anyone else who may face this issue.

The following was observed:
Primary Drain was missing the cap from where bleach is poured. This was leaking cold air.

Turned off AC Unit using switch in attic next to unit.
1. I plugged the hole leading to the primary drain, below the outlet connecting from primary drain pan, using a sponge tied with a string.
2. Poured 50 :50 bleach and water solution to the bleach hole. Since the pipe to primary drain was blocked, this solution went to primary drain pan through primary drain outlet. Poured about 2 liters of this solution total.
3. Left this solution for about 1 hour.
4. Used a wet dry vacuum and sucked this bleach solution from primary drain.
5. Observed that sucked liquid contained bleach solution and some fiber glass flakes from the insulation. Did NOT see any algae.
6. Pulled out the sponge blocking the primary drain exit and covered the bleach pouring hole with this sponge.
7. Started HVAC unit. This created a bleach smelled outlet air for about 3 hours which became normal.
8. No more leakage water in secondary drain pan. Smilie
Problem solved.
Instead of beach, try spray nine or mr clean. the smells aren't sp bad after wards
Sorry I missed this thread.

It does sound like you did everything correctly too.
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"Lord, make me quick and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun." And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen

"I CELERITER TEMPUS DEFICIT" look it up

"It is said , That some suffer from insanity. I, however, choose to enjoy it!"
Joined Aug 2004
Ponderer of imponderables
16,541 Posts
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Original Poster
#137
Quote from Wasser View Post :
It is a gas water heater A.O.Smith FGR-40. So water heater => doesn't have to be full? I figure it would need a lot of citric acid to make a solution for the entire heater.
I have never descaled a unit in this method before. I have flushed and have replaced the anode rod before.
If you are going to fire up the unit , it must be full, or you will burn out the eco ( behind the stat) or torch and warp the tank and the flue pipe going through.

If you have that much of a problem, you need to have a water treatment set installed in your house.


Your take, TakeTheActive?
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Joined Jan 2005
L9: Master
5,413 Posts
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#138
i can't believe what I just did...i literally just dropped a toilet bolt down the sewer pipe ...unbelieavable .... oh well, guess it won't hurt anything
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#139
Quote from BikerEric View Post :
I have never descaled a unit in this method before. I have flushed and have replaced the anode rod before.
If you are going to fire up the unit , it must be full, or you will burn out the eco ( behind the stat) or torch and warp the tank and the flue pipe going through.

If you have that much of a problem, you need to have a water treatment set installed in your house.
Thanks for your help BE! This specific unit doesn't have an anode rod. Rather than turning it on to heat the water, I'll heat some on the stove and activate the acid that way.

Water here is very hard indeed, but I rather not use a water softener (plants and aquarium fish don't like it).
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#140
Quote from OP View Post :
i can't believe what I just did...i literally just dropped a toilet bolt down the sewer pipe ...unbelieavable .... oh well, guess it won't hurt anything
i wouldnt lose sleep over it
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for those that hate spelling mistakes www.walmarts.comCool

bulb save money by checking your insurance every 2 years (and not every 20)
#141
Quote :
i can't believe what I just did...i literally just dropped a toilet bolt down the sewer pipe
Just pretend you didn't see it happen and be glad it wasn't your keys. Smilie Unless it was an unusually long bolt I'd be inclined to let it ride. Its a roll of the dice if it will cause a problem, but Its the curve at the bowl that causes most back ups. Past that its usually smooth sailing.

My first post in this thread. I've got an AC problem.

Working on my vacant rental apartment today the blower fan wasnít blowing.
This is a split A/C unit with inside coils and fan under the house in the ducting and the compressor and coils outside.
The outside coil fan was running as was the compressor as there was ice built up all over the lines.
Having been to this rodeo a few times I go under the house to clean the inside coils only to find them clean. As a side note, despite having trashed the carpet this tenant is the first tenant ever that actually changed the air filter.
I read up on the blower fan capacitor being a common problem so I went back and pulled it out to check it out. With an ohmmeter between the posts it reads nothing (infinite resistance). Does this indicate it has failed?
The numbers have faded off and I canít tell what they all say. To try to wrangle up the part. (assuming you guys advise that it has failed) I need some help identifying it. I think the number in the top left says 9FF900 but it is too faded to be sure.
The inside under the house assembly has on it Goodman Mfg. model A30-10 serial #9901471904 and outside compressor and coil unit is Goodman Mfg. CPKE30-1B serial 9812451136
There is a schematic on the service panel of the inside unit that I can upload a pic of if that will help but I didnít see anything on the schematic that indicated what the rating of the capacitor was.
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#142
Disclaimer: I'm an "Old Fart" / Techie (Programmer/Analyst - Homeowner since 1977) / NEWLY *REGISTERED* User / OLD Lurker on SD who found your problem interesting and am offering my 'NON-HVAC Professional' thoughts / ideas... bulb

Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
...My first post in this thread...
So what? wave (So *MANY* folks post these "disqualifiers", or something similar, prefixing so *MANY* posts, on so *MANY* different forums - WHY BOTHER? - IMHO, JUST ASK YOUR QUESTION!)

Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
...
I've got an AC problem.

... the blower fan wasnít blowing.

This is a split A/C unit with inside coils and fan under the house in the ducting
and the compressor and coils outside.

The outside coil fan was running as was the compressor as there was ice built up all over the lines.
Having been to this rodeo a few times I go under the house to clean the inside coils only to find them clean...
Sounds 'somewhat' logical - I've also seen low refrigerant levels cause ice to form on 'parts' on both window and auto A/C systems. I've personally never run an A/C system without a fan blowing over the evaporator coils, so I'll leave it up to the 'HVAC Experts' to DEFINITELY answer whether that can also cause ice to form (but, with the 'Lack of Heat' from ambient air circulation across the evaporator coils, resulting in 'Lower-Than-Designed-For' temperatures, COMBINED with YOUR research below, I imagine it could happen :thinking: ).

Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
...I read up on the blower fan capacitor being a common problem so I went back and pulled it out to check it out. With an ohmmeter between the posts it reads nothing (infinite resistance). Does this indicate it has failed?
Are you familiar with the old children's rhyme about the 'Church / People / Steeple' that folks do with their two hands? A capacitor is like the fingers in your two hands INTERLACED but NOT TOUCHING. You can 'sort of' test it with a VOM / DMM. You won't be able to determine if it's at its RATED VALUE, but you will know if it's SHORTED or OPEN (both BAD!). I found this (easier than typing it all in) on GOOGLE:
Quote from GOOGLE :
You can use your multimeter as an ohmmeter to test the capacitor.
  1. Discharge the capacitor by shortening its leads. That is - use a wire and connect the leads of the capacitor together. This will discharge it.
    .
  2. put your multimeter in the high ranges 10K-1M
    .
  3. CONNECT MULTIMETER TO CAPACITOR LEADS(OBSERVE THE POLARITY IF ELECTROLYTIC). AT SOON AS THE LEADS MAKE CONTACT, THE METER WILL SWING NEAR ZERO. IT WILL THEN MOVE SLOWLY TOWARD INFINITY. FINALLY THE METER WOULD COME TO BE INFINITE OHMS BECAUSE THE CAPACITOR IS BEING CHARGED BY THE BATTERY OF THE MULTIMETER.
    .
  4. IF THE CAPACITOR IS BAD, IT WILL GO TO ZERO OHMS AND REMAIN THERE. THIS IS CALLED A SHORTENED CAPACITOR
    .
  5. IN THE CASE OF AN OPEN CAPACITOR THERE WILL BE NO OHMMETER INDICATION.
    .
  6. SOME CAPACITORS HAVE A LOW DIELECTRIC LEAKAGE. YOU WILL KNOW THIS IF THE OHMMETER COMES TO REST AT A POINT LOWER THAN INFINITE. TEST A KNOWN GOOD CAPACITOR OF THE SAME TYPE TO BE SURE
...which is pretty much as I remember it - an ohmmeter (VOM / DMM) will initially go to ZERO as the capacitor ABSORBS a charge from the battery inside the ohmmeter. Once it has SOAKED UP as much as it can, the reading will (gradually / rather QUICKLY) go to INFINITY, since, in actuality, there is no *REAL*, CONTINUOUS connection between the 2 poles of a capacitor.

Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
...The numbers have faded off and I canít tell what they all say. To try to wrangle up the part. (assuming you guys advise that it has failed) I need some help identifying it. I think the number in the top left says 9FF900 but it is too faded to be sure.
The inside under the house assembly has on it Goodman Mfg. model A30-10 serial #9901471904 and outside compressor and coil unit is Goodman Mfg. CPKE30-1B serial 9812451136
There is a schematic on the service panel of the inside unit that I can upload a pic of if that will help but I didnít see anything on the schematic that indicated what the rating of the capacitor was.
I GOOGLE'd several combinations of both the letters / numbers in your post and the letters / numbers readable off your photo. I came up with:
Goodman Mfg. Model A30-10 - REPAIR PARTS: 1.5 and 2.5 Ton A SERIES Air Handler w/Coil [goodmanmfg.com]
Is Part #161 on Page 4 your capacitor?
__________________________________________________

Unclesam woot worshipGOOGLE is your friendworship woot Superman

I recently read in my 'Local Sunday Paper' "things / items" for a college professor to realize that the new / incoming freshmen class WON'T understand. Confused (If there's an interest, a website was posted. IIRC, it goes back SEVERAL years!)

One point was a LIBRARY - while 2010 college freshmen MAY realize that PUBLIC LIBRARYs exist, they also question WHY one would bother PHYSICALLY going to a PUBLIC LIBRARY when the INTERNET exists.

I can recall *MANY* times, 40+ years ago, when I would walk / drive to the PUBLIC LIBRARY to look up something, pay the IIRC 5 cents-per-page copier fee for the MOST RELEVANT pages, and return home.
(Again, IIRC, MOTOR's and CHILTON'S Manual pages were what I copied most often.)

*MANY* times I see folks posting questions on various forums that, IMHO, they could have found 'nearly instantly' by using GOOGLE. Give it a shot.
  • PRACTICE!
  • LEARN how to use the various OPTIONS.
  • LEARN how to CHOOSE appropriate SEARCH PARAMETERS!
Hopefully, since this soliloquy is APPENDED to a valid reply, the 'possible' divergence from the 'Commandments' won't be a problem...
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Joined Jan 2005
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#143
Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
I read up on the blower fan capacitor being a common problem so I went back and pulled it out to check it out. With an ohmmeter between the posts it reads nothing (infinite resistance). Does this indicate it has failed?
You cannot properly test a capacitor with a DMM. The only thing you can really do is verify it has not shorted out. Set the DMM to OHM and it should read open. If you get a reading the capacitor is shorted and needs replacing. If you are sure of what you are doing, verify the blower is getting power. If there is power at the blower terminals, then you need to either check the starting cap or the blower motor. If there is no power at the blower terminals, then you have a problem with the circuit board.
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#144
Quote from TakeTheActive View Post :
[b]So what? wave (So *MANY* folks post these "disqualifiers", or something similar, prefixing so *MANY* posts, on so *MANY* different forums - WHY BOTHER? - IMHO, JUST ASK YOUR QUESTION!)

I GOOGLE'd several combinations of both the letters / numbers in your post and the letters / numbers readable off your photo. I came up with:
Goodman Mfg. Model A30-10 - REPAIR PARTS: 1.5 and 2.5 Ton A SERIES Air Handler w/Coil [goodmanmfg.com]
Is Part #161 on Page 4 your capacitor?
[CENTER]

*MANY* times I see folks posting questions on various forums that, IMHO, they could have found 'nearly instantly' by using GOOGLE. Give it a shot.[list]Hopefully, since this soliloquy is APPENDED to a valid reply, the 'possible' divergence from the 'Commandments' won't be a problem...[/SIZE]
Something must have gotten lost in the inflection. I mentioned its my first post in the thread to flag folks that frequent this thread that I may not have the flow and vibe right which it would seem that I don't. So sorry.
Im very very versed in google and did spend some time there before I posted my question. I share your frustration with people that haven't googled first. I hadn't come across the manual you found though. That is a solid lead indeed. Thanks.
Quote from Q-Bert View Post :
You cannot properly test a capacitor with a DMM. The only thing you can really do is verify it has not shorted out. Set the DMM to OHM and it should read open. If you get a reading the capacitor is shorted and needs replacing. If you are sure of what you are doing, verify the blower is getting power. If there is power at the blower terminals, then you need to either check the starting cap or the blower motor. If there is no power at the blower terminals, then you have a problem with the circuit board.
It does read open regardless of the ohm range I set the DMM to. I don't get the swing to 0 before going back up to open that is mentioned in some tutorials.

The fan does not blow when you set the controls at the thermostat to fan always on.
So if there is power to the blower this still doesn't eliminate the cap right? As in the cap can be passing voltage through but not not storing it correctly for the start up kick.

Edit: got a nice AC tech that was picking up some parts at the supply store to test it for me. Tests within tolerance at 655 farad and it is a 7.5v unit. He advised fan motor or relay switch are the next things to check.
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Last edited by ShovelWare August 24, 2010 at 01:10 PM
Joined Jan 2005
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#145
Quote from ShovelWare View Post :
Edit: got a nice AC tech that was picking up some parts at the supply store to test it for me. Tests within tolerance at 655 farad and it is a 7.5v unit. He advised fan motor or relay switch are the next things to check.
Are you sure the starting cap is 7.5V? it should be rated at least 120V unless your blower has a 7.5V motor.

Check power at the circuit board output terminals with DMM with thermostat set to FAN: ON.
You should have power. No power, replace board. Good power, replace motor.
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#146
Working!
At least it was when I left.
Testing power to the fan I started working my way up the lines to the next part which turns out to be a Sequencer. I found that I could jump the fan leads and make the fan work. This eliminated both the fan motor and the capacitor as the source of the problem.
I slid into the parts store minutes before they closed with that part in my hand. The guy helped me figure out if it had failed but we couldn't know for sure without knowing if it was getting 24v supplied to it on the correct places.
Rolled the dice and bought the part. Turns out it was the culprit.
$39 for the Sequencer part and total satisfaction that I got it working and that it wasn't something more expensive like the board.
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Last edited by ShovelWare August 25, 2010 at 05:23 AM
#147
BE thats some funny sheet there
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#148
At work we have a refrigerator that has stopped cooling, but the freezer still works fine. It's a top and bottom model.

Whirlpool
Model #: ET21GKXHW00
Mfg. Date: 04-99

We pulled the pan out from underneath and it was filthy, but dry. I had noticed a bit of moisture coming from the front right of the fridge the other day (on the floor).
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Joined Jan 2005
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#149
Quote from The.Walrus View Post :
At work we have a refrigerator that has stopped cooling, but the freezer still works fine. It's a top and bottom model.

Whirlpool
Model #: ET21GKXHW00
Mfg. Date: 04-99

We pulled the pan out from underneath and it was filthy, but dry. I had noticed a bit of moisture coming from the front right of the fridge the other day (on the floor).
Defrost Timer or bimetal

Remove panel in back of the freezer, note all the ice that has formed. Use hair dryer to melt ice completely.

Defrost timer $16: http://www.appliancepartspros.com...96&image=3

Bimetal $18: http://www.appliancepartspros.com...id=3108454
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#150
does the fan still run up top? if its not draining...it could have blocked the fan blades from turning. or the fan could have went bad.
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