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Already have a PS4, is PS4 Pro worth upgrading to?

cardboardbox 2,162 184 October 10, 2016 at 12:42 PM in Video Games (3)
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I'm a Sony fan but I mainly only use my PS4 for exclusives. I dont have a 4k tv yet and dont plan on getting one until 65" OLED 4k is well under $2k. So maybe end of 2017?

Most multi platform games I play on PC which is my main gaming system. No plans to buy any Xbone flavor since MS exclusives are also on PC.

So I'm wondering if I should try to sell my PS4 now, and pick up whatever slick deal I find on a PS4 Pro over the holidays. Since I'm not 4k yet, will PS4 Pro have much benefit for me? If games would max out the gpu at either resolution, I'd jump on it but I have a feeling some games will only upgrade the resolution on the Pro.

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#2
No. If you have a competent PC and no 4K TV there's no point. It's not even a 4K Blu-ray player. It just upscales anyways. It's only useful if you're planning to get the PSVR and even then I wouldn't bother at launch because there's been no testing to see its advantages in that regard either.

In the grand scheme, it is a minor upgrade. It won't be playing your current games any better and there aren't many (if any at the moment) non-VR exclusives that would be better than their PC counterparts.
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#3
Not worth it. I would have been tempted, but so far it just upscales to 4K without giving you better frame rates. VR may make use of the better hardware, but since all games will have to continue being dumbed down to the original hardware I wouldn't expect much. The hardware jump isn't exactly a monumental one anyway.

The fact that Sony owns Blu-ray and couldn't be bothered to actually release this console with the 4K player is just insulting.
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#4
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
Not worth it. I would have been tempted, but so far it just upscales to 4K without giving you better frame rates. VR may make use of the better hardware, but since all games will have to continue being dumbed down to the original hardware I wouldn't expect much. The hardware jump isn't exactly a monumental one anyway.

The fact that Sony owns Blu-ray and couldn't be bothered to actually release this console with the 4K player is just insulting.
nod

They are taking an incredible risk by allowing a significant portion of their user base to defect to MS, while the XB1 is still priced competitively among other UHD players like the K8500. So unbelievably dumb.
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Achievements are not for the meek, it is better to forfeit inheritance of the earth so that the mighty may look upon my gamerscore, and despair. Achievements are for men who dream; men who dare; men who achieve! Men who carve out entire galaxies with nothing more than nimble cheetos-dusted fingers and their wits, and in our leisurely twilight days we shall sit by softly flickering fires with our descendants recounting the tales of these unimaginable glories.
#5
Quote from godfather927 View Post :
nod

They are taking an incredible risk by allowing a significant portion of their user base to defect to MS, while the XB1 is still priced competitively among other UHD players like the K8500. So unbelievably dumb.
Given their track record I am not shocked. The only thing that Sony managed to do with the PS4 was not embarrass themselves at launch. Everything after that has been rather bland. Pretty sure they are just tired of money and are hoping to destroy the last of the markets they actually turn a profit in.
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#6
Quote from BlaneB View Post :
No. If you have a competent PC and no 4K TV there's no point. It's not even a 4K Blu-ray player. It just upscales anyways. It's only useful if you're planning to get the PSVR and even then I wouldn't bother at launch because there's been no testing to see its advantages in that regard either.

In the grand scheme, it is a minor upgrade. It won't be playing your current games any better and there aren't many (if any at the moment) non-VR exclusives that would be better than their PC counterparts.
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
Not worth it. I would have been tempted, but so far it just upscales to 4K without giving you better frame rates. VR may make use of the better hardware, but since all games will have to continue being dumbed down to the original hardware I wouldn't expect much. The hardware jump isn't exactly a monumental one anyway.

The fact that Sony owns Blu-ray and couldn't be bothered to actually release this console with the 4K player is just insulting.
I dont understand this thinking at all. New games, or old games that are updated, will not just upscale. To me upscale is like the old 360 that would take a game's true output of 540p and convert it to 1080p. It didnt really look much better. The PS4 Pro has twice the GPU power of the PS4, that means somewhere around GTX 970 power since the PS4 GPU is very similar to the Radeon 7850/7870. So old games that are not updated should be upscaled, but new and updated old games will run at a higher native resolution. What that resolution is I dont know because the GPU looks underpowered for true 4k but the end result should be a much nicer looking image. I hope.... If it really is just upscaling, that would be a load of crap.

I wish Sony would say if those without a 4k tv will benefit from PS4 Pro... framerate or just an overall nicer looking game. Like playing a pc game at 1080p but on ultra rather than medium.
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#7
Quote from cardboardbox View Post :
I dont understand this thinking at all. New games, or old games that are updated, will not just upscale. To me upscale is like the old 360 that would take a game's true output of 540p and convert it to 1080p. It didnt really look much better. The PS4 Pro has twice the GPU power of the PS4, that means somewhere around GTX 970 power since the PS4 GPU is very similar to the Radeon 7850/7870. So old games that are not updated should be upscaled, but new and updated old games will run at a higher native resolution. What that resolution is I dont know because the GPU looks underpowered for true 4k but the end result should be a much nicer looking image. I hope.... If it really is just upscaling, that would be a load of crap.

I wish Sony would say if those without a 4k tv will benefit from PS4 Pro... framerate or just an overall nicer looking game. Like playing a pc game at 1080p but on ultra rather than medium.
In the case of the 360 games, they are just upscaled. What Sony may be hoping for here is some post processing to sharpen things as well. This is not what was done in the case of getting 1080 out of 540.

So far, there is only one game that Sony has shown that makes use of the new hardware. The new COD. In that demo you see evidence of jaggy edges caused by trying to sharpen everything while upscaling. This could just be early , but it wasn't an amazing demo of what 4K gaming can do, especially since it was still struggling to get 30 fps out the door.

Can the hardware render better than the older model? Likely, but they would probably have to turn the res back down to 1080 (or possibly 720) to free up some power to make better pictures. The new hardware is just not that much better to do everything better at the same time. This would also require games to basically have selectable settings or separate builds for old vs new hardware.

My initial fear was that devs would jump on the new hardware and start making terrible low end ports for the early console owners. It is looking more likely that devs will simply make the exact game they did before and just crank the internal resolution of the renderer and call it a job well done.
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Last edited by PorcelainThunder October 10, 2016 at 03:38 PM.
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#8
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
In the case of the 360 games, they are just upscaled. What Sony may be hoping for here is some post processing to sharpen things as well. This is not what was done in the case of getting 1080 out of 540.

So far, there is only one game that Sony has shown that makes use of the new hardware. The new COD. In that demo you see evidence of jaggy edges caused by trying to sharpen everything while upscaling. This could just be early , but it wasn't an amazing demo of what 4K gaming can do, especially since it was still struggling to get 30 fps out the door.

Can the hardware render better than the older model? Likely, but they would probably have to turn the res back down to 1080 (or possibly 720) to free up some power to make better pictures. The new hardware is just not that much better to do everything better at the same time. This would also require games to basically have selectable settings or separate builds for old vs new hardware.

My initial fear was that devs would jump on the new hardware and start making terrible low end ports for the early console owners. It is looking more likely that devs will simply make the exact game they did before and just crank the internal resolution of the renderer and call it a job well done.
during development, couldnt they use pc style graphics sliders to determine the best settings and then when the game is completed it would have two different settings it could use depending on which PS4 it was running on? I'm not at convinced that simply increasing the resolution is the best use of more GPU power.
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#9
Quote from cardboardbox View Post :
during development, couldnt they use pc style graphics sliders to determine the best settings and then when the game is completed it would have two different settings it could use depending on which PS4 it was running on? I'm not at convinced that simply increasing the resolution is the best use of more GPU power.
Well, those sliders you are talking about are nothing more than altering the internal rendering resolution of the engine. This gives you more/smaller pixels. The thing those sliders don't give you is more effects that you would want to see with better hardware.

You can crank solitaire up to 4K, but all it does is make the edges of the cards crisper. Does it add better lens effects or reflections to the cards? How about some awesome spash animation or have the cards realistically bend when you move them? Nope, same game, same looks, smaller pixels.

What should be done is for these games to be made like PC games. Create for high end hardware and make all the pretty stuff optional to turn off for people that need to run on lower end machines. Console dev tools don't look like that as far as I know but that would be the only true way to get what you want.

That way, Pro consoles get better water detail with realistic reflections and better AA while pleb consoles get the game without those hardware hogging options.

In the end, that Pro hardware is not really better enough to make that difference. People were hoping for a jump of something like Quake2 to Crysis when in reality it will just be a slightly refined game over what you already saw.

Multiple edits here. The thing that makes console gaming look as good as it does given it being rather underpowered in comparison to a PC is that devs work specifically with the hardware of a console where PC devs rely on the OS and drivers to do it for them. This slows things even though it gives it better market coverage. I have yet to see anything as beautiful as Uncharted 4 on a console, this is due to Naughty Dog writing specifically for the hardware. If a dev was to write specifically for the Pro hardware it would look better, but it wouldn't work on the old machines. This is what is holding back any updates to the Pro.
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Last edited by PorcelainThunder October 10, 2016 at 04:03 PM.
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#10
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
Well, those sliders you are talking about are nothing more than altering the internal rendering resolution of the engine. This gives you more/smaller pixels. The thing those sliders don't give you is more effects that you would want to see with better hardware.

You can crank solitaire up to 4K, but all it does is make the edges of the cards crisper. Does it add better lens effects or reflections to the cards? How about some awesome spash animation or have the cards realistically bend when you move them? Nope, same game, same looks, smaller pixels.

What should be done is for these games to be made like PC games. Create for high end hardware and make all the pretty stuff optional to turn off for people that need to run on lower end machines. Console dev tools don't look like that as far as I know but that would be the only true way to get what you want.

That way, Pro consoles get better water detail with realistic reflections and better AA while pleb consoles get the game without those hardware hogging options.

In the end, that Pro hardware is not really better enough to make that difference. People were hoping for a jump of something like Quake2 to Crysis when in reality it will just be a slightly refined game over what you already saw.

Multiple edits here. The thing that makes console gaming look as good as it does given it being rather underpowered in comparison to a PC is that devs work specifically with the hardware of a console where PC devs rely on the OS and drivers to do it for them. This slows things even though it gives it better market coverage. I have yet to see anything as beautiful as Uncharted 4 on a console, this is due to Naughty Dog writing specifically for the hardware. If a dev was to write specifically for the Pro hardware it would look better, but it wouldn't work on the old machines. This is what is holding back any updates to the Pro.
Also they can't write specifically for the Pro as per Sony's mandate that all games must be compatible with the original hardware. According to their FAQ for the Pro, the only differences would be performance (framerate) and detail (sharpness, essentially), not effects like you mentioned. If you don't own a PS4, the pro is fine, though personally, I'd save the money and buy a Slim plus a 2TB drive for the same price.
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#11
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
Well, those sliders you are talking about are nothing more than altering the internal rendering resolution of the engine. This gives you more/smaller pixels. The thing those sliders don't give you is more effects that you would want to see with better hardware.

You can crank solitaire up to 4K, but all it does is make the edges of the cards crisper. Does it add better lens effects or reflections to the cards? How about some awesome spash animation or have the cards realistically bend when you move them? Nope, same game, same looks, smaller pixels.

What should be done is for these games to be made like PC games. Create for high end hardware and make all the pretty stuff optional to turn off for people that need to run on lower end machines. Console dev tools don't look like that as far as I know but that would be the only true way to get what you want.

That way, Pro consoles get better water detail with realistic reflections and better AA while pleb consoles get the game without those hardware hogging options.

In the end, that Pro hardware is not really better enough to make that difference. People were hoping for a jump of something like Quake2 to Crysis when in reality it will just be a slightly refined game over what you already saw.

Multiple edits here. The thing that makes console gaming look as good as it does given it being rather underpowered in comparison to a PC is that devs work specifically with the hardware of a console where PC devs rely on the OS and drivers to do it for them. This slows things even though it gives it better market coverage. I have yet to see anything as beautiful as Uncharted 4 on a console, this is due to Naughty Dog writing specifically for the hardware. If a dev was to write specifically for the Pro hardware it would look better, but it wouldn't work on the old machines. This is what is holding back any updates to the Pro.
Or instead of having optional profiles, they can just have the game auto-switch to a profile depending on which version of the console is in use(likely what they'll end up doing). Most console gamers don't like to fiddle with graphics settings or they would likely just use a PC int he first place.
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#12
I preordered one to see - I plan to use PSVR with it so well see if the bump in gpu helps.
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#13
Quote from Metric View Post :
I preordered one to see - I plan to use PSVR with it so well see if the bump in gpu helps.
That would be my only hope for it. I can't see the PS4 keeping up with the resolution or speed on each eye well enough to keep you from getting sick.

I would like to pick up a VR and give Valkyrie a shot but I will likely look for a Rift given that nasty price that sony put on their setup.
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#14
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#15
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
That would be my only hope for it. I can't see the PS4 keeping up with the resolution or speed on each eye well enough to keep you from getting sick.

I would like to pick up a VR and give Valkyrie a shot but I will likely look for a Rift given that nasty price that sony put on their setup.
I have a rift, resolution is higher but its really uncomfortable, i used it for 30 mins. I got two ps vr headsets for my gaming area but havent had chance to try them yet.. hoping they fit my big head better.
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