Something new for the podium... this week we will entertain questions on Islam in a sticky thread


mohater will be our guide...


He has offered to field questions from the group on the subject of Islam, and clear up misconceptions that exist among the group. So... if you have questions about islam... ask away.

If you don't have questions... stay away.

Quote from Doctor_Wu : Something new for the podium... this week we will entertain questions on Islam in a sticky thread mohater will be our guide... He has offered to field questions from the group on the subject of Islam, and clear up misconceptions that exist among the group. So... if you have questions about islam... ask away.

Ok guys to keep this orderly -

Questions should not be directed at current events or recent history - (ie gang rape in Pakistan, or Illegal for Women to drive in Saudi). Trying to keep the cultural out of it and only have questions on the religion

I will be the only one answering questions just to keep it consistant.
EDIT
If you would like to present your own points - do it by starting your own thread - off topic unrelated posts will be deleted here. Seriously guys - no posting junk or spin or anything or silly comments. I want this to be just strightforward and clean - don't reply to other people - ask your own questions or follow ups. Please be sensible here

I'll edit this as I need to to address any more concern that come up

Asalamu alakum,

Are the family of the Prophet Mohammad "ali, fatima, hasan, husain, and prophet mohammad" sinless and pure

Surah 33:33

ma salama

Quote from IranWarrior : Asalamu alakum, Are the family of the Prophet Mohammad "ali, fatima, hasan, husain, and prophet mohammad" sinless and pure Surah 33:33 ma salama

Incorrect translation/not seen in this verse as seen here

link [usc.edu]

Quote : YUSUFALI: And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

No mention is made of anyone being sinless in this verse. it says god "wishs" - but does not directly say they are without fault. Even the prophet made "mistakes" when they were followed by revelation to show lessons to mankind (but the Prophet himself never sinned - all Prophets never sinned)

Other translations show that it was instructing people to cleanse themselves - but nothing showing they were without sin in this verse

Can you please describe the relationship and importance of the other Holy Books to Islam, eg the Pentateuch, 'Old' Testament, and 'New' Testament. Also what is a good synopsis of the religion, its holy book, main teachings, holy men, and history.

-WhyBother?

Another question,

Why do men have inheritence which equals that of 2 woman?

Quote from IranWarrior : Another question, Why do men have inheritence which equals that of 2 woman?

Religiously (society no longer follows this as it once did) women had very few if any financial burdens in the household. The financial was the man's job - it was his job to provide for the household. Quick note - individual households may make individual decisions. The money the husband makes is used to support his family and lifestyle for himself and his wife. The wife must be content with her lifestyle (within means of course (a poor wife can not demand her husband make them rich if it is not within his means, etc)) Also if the woman works - her husband is NOT allowed to touch that money unless she allows him to - the money she makes is hers and only hers unless she choses otherwise.

This lead to inhertence - since the men are financial responsible - they recieve more to assist them. The women still recieve.

Now in today's time - say it there is a son and daugher. The son is careless and foolish with his money while the daughter is wise and smart with hers. If an inheritance comes in and the one died dictated to the caretaker no money is to go to the son because of his condition - or he made the daughter the caretaker - she would be able to get her share - and be the caretaker for the rest in case her brother ever came around.
It is not an unconditional rule - but a rule to show general guidelines on how inheirtence can be distributed if no stipulation (will) was left.

2 points to start with:

1.) Why is Iran Warrior's post hidden to me? Is this MY browser or is it hidden by the moderator? (Incidentally, I see I_W is here in Wisconsin. I look forward to an accidental meeting at some point in the future to discuss Iranian Politics and Religion to further my understanding of those who might have differences with my country and it's policies.)

2.) I welcome a BRILLIANT idea. A chance to beter understand a faith and it's people that we are currently at odds with makes me feel that there is hope for LESS violence, and MORE mutaul sharing of the GOOD parts of our heritages.

My question to mohater:
As previously touched on in another thread, mohater, could you explain to me:

1.) The players:
......a.) Political divisions in the ME, specifically, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebenon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan &/or any others you may feel should be included in the "players list". The Palastinian area can be left out of the equation except where it is necessary to explain a standing difference in a particular country's major political splits.
......b.) Religious divisions or "sects". Please include, by rough percentage shares, the constituancy of the divisions in each of the above named countries, the number in aggregate of one's having even a significant though smaller following, and those which may be extremly small but have an orverarching influence on the major players due to the fanaticism or devotion of it's adherants.

mohater, I know these 2 are BIG questions. I feel a better understanding of the actors is important to a better understanding of the play. If you chose to go "short form" I will understand, but will also be eternally grateful for the "long form" should you undertake the VERY heavy workload. I will not debate or critisize any quantitative statements. I simply want to better understand the seperation in the political divisions & "sects" & how they are intertwined. Feel free to use Arabic words at any time. Sometimes using the native tongue is constructive as the surrounding context of a foreign word can shed much light on it's meaning with a little "googling" by the reader, as the "hiijra" definition in relationship to "fatwa" did for me in another thread.

Quote from mohater : Religiously (society no longer follows this as it once did) women had very few if any financial burdens in the household. The financial was the man's job - it was his job to provide for the household. Quick note - individual households may make individual decisions. The money the husband makes is used to support his family and lifestyle for himself and his wife. The wife must be content with her lifestyle (within means of course (a poor wife can not demand her husband make them rich if it is not within his means, etc)) Also if the woman works - her husband is NOT allowed to touch that money unless she allows him to - the money she makes is hers and only hers unless she choses otherwise. This leader tho inhertence - since the men are financial responsible - they recieve more to assist them. The women still recieve. Now in today's time - say it there is a son and daugher. The son is careless and foolish with his money while the daughter is wise and smart with hers. If an inheritance comes in and the one died dictated to the caretaker no money is to go to the son because of his condition - or he made the daughter the caretaker - she would be able to get her share - and be the caretaker for the rest in case her brother ever came around. It is not an unconditional rule - but a rule to show general guidelines on how inheirtence can be distributed if no stipulation (will) was left.

Thank you, and also I would like to add, that There is a dowry that the man has to pay to the wife "at the wedding or after" The wife can ask for the dowry at any time

and usually back in my parents time it used to be 350 gold coins,

but now its like 600.
the reason for the dowry is that, before the prophets time, people were just divorcing very easily, there had to be a little lock to prevent that.

so if a man wants to divorce his wife, he has to pay the 350 gold coins.

and also, the woman can take any money she desires from her husbands acount, as it is the husbands responsibility to care for his wife

thank you

Quote from Anonymouse : My question to mohater: As previously touched on in another thread, mohater, could you explain to me: 1.) The players: ......a.) Political divisions in the ME, specifically, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebenon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan &/or any others you may feel should be included in the "players list". The Palastinian area can be left out of the equation except where it is necessary to explain a standing difference in a particular country's major political splits.

With the different countries that are pre-dominatly Sunni - there are what is known as books of thought. These were people in the past who went far and wide to get the nitty gritty details on the life of the Prophet Muhammad. Between them you find almost ZERO contradictions - what you find is small differences. For example - one book of thought says that when preforming ablution for prayer - if you have done it before without socks - you may just wipe the tops of your socks with damp hands (called a "ruksa" or making something more convinient)- another says you must remove your socks and wash you feet. In the end both people are proforming ablution to prepare for prayer.

Outside of the books of though (there are 4 major books (or authors)) there are also sects within the Sunni's - the selafis, wah'habis, etc. Then also there is A LOT of people who mix culture/tribal things with religion. This is the cause of a great deal or problems (gang rape in pakistan, chewing 'qaat' in Yemen, etc). Finally many of the dictatorships (Saudi, Jordan, Egypt, Libya) hold the power unconditionally - before the split after WWII of the Ottoman Empire - the entire area was known as "belad usham" or Greater Sham (sham means Damascus) and the passports back then reflected that. The area was Syria, Jordan, Palestine (now Israel) part of Iraq, and bits of other places.

I will probably add more to this later

Quote : ......b.) Religious divisions or "sects". Please include, by rough percentage shares, the constituancy of the divisions in each of the above named countries.

Part of this is stated above. The 3 main sects are Sufi, Sunni and Shiite. Sufi is the most recent of the 3 - they take the most spiritual route (chants, etc). There are many smaller sects (Durzi, Alloyite, Bah'ai, Ismalili) but some of them are WAAAAY off the map from mainstream Islam.
Sunni/Shiite is where there seems to be more of a conflict. The root of the cause as Iran stated above is that many people felt Ali should have been the next leader because he was "of the house" or related to the Prophet. Leadership was given to Abu Bakr - the Prophet's lifetime friend and first one who entered the faith. As time progressed there were many groups striving for power and many of the leaders were assassinated (most noted - Omar and Ali). After Ali was killed - and almost his entire family - there became more of a seperation between the groups - and then some began to say that Ali was to recieve the Prophecy and the Angel Gabrial made a mistake when giving the revelation.

As for countries - I am not sure. I know in Iraq the media plays games with stats because Kurds are predomintaly - Sunni. So they say the three groups are Kurds, Sunni and Shiite, where they are mixing religious sects with cultural backgrounds. Iran is predomintaly Shiite, but you find many Sunni there. Lebanon is probably 55% Shiite, 45% Sunni. Pakistan is like a smogerborg of things along with some other areas where tribes are very powerful.

More to come later

Quote from IranWarrior : Thank you, and also I would like to add, that There is a dowry that the man has to pay to the wife "at the wedding or after" The wife can ask for the dowry at any time and usually back in my parents time it used to be 350 gold coins, but now its like 600. the reason for the dowry is that, before the prophets time, people were just divorcing very easily, there had to be a little lock to prevent that. so if a man wants to divorce his wife, he has to pay the 350 gold coins. and also, the woman can take any money she desires from her husbands acount, as it is the husbands responsibility to care for his wife thank you

Dowry is not a requirment - it is up the the two parties to decide if they want one. The point of the dowry is IN case of a divorce - the wife will have something to use until she situates herself with work, back with family, or remarry. Dowry is also SET before the parties agree to marry - when she recieves it is up to them again.
The dowry is not to prevent divorce. If they decide - she gets here money no matter what. Divorce is the most hated thing in Islam that is religously permissible - why? Because it ruins households but hey sometimes it just doesn't work out and it's better to seperate (now it is an epidemic)

As a follow up on your reference link on 33:33:
there appear to be 3 translations. I had heard it stated that the 3rd caliph "finalized" the Qu'an. Does this mean there are STILL people interpreting the Qu'an and if so, which of those 3 are most modern.
Yusufali appears more traditional, as if we heard a "closest" approximate translation
Pickthal appears to be using more "biblical" language with LO! and -"ath"s somewhat reminiscent of Medival times.
Shakir appears to be translating in modern "everyday" conversation as though Shakir were more familiar with modern idiomatic English.

A "scholar" is one who's word is sought and respected. Since I do not study the Qu'an, (or at least have not done so in over 30 years-there once was a time), you become my default "scholar" as I have no other handy without a searching out and devotion to study. And what would necessarily make THAT person any more trusted than you? I have seen evidence that you may be as informed as any, on this subject, in this forum. (Can I NEVER make a statement without qualifiers in them?<slaps self>)

Quote from Anonymouse : As a follow up on your reference link on 33:33: there appear to be 3 translations. I had heard it stated that the 3rd caliph "finalized" the Qu'an. Does this mean there are STILL people interpreting the Qu'an and if so, which of those 3 are most modern. Yusufali appears more traditional, as if we heard a "closest" approximate translation Pickthal appears to be using more "biblical" language with LO! and -"ath"s somewhat reminiscent of Medival times. Shakir appears to be translating in modern "everyday" conversation as though Shakir were more familiar with modern idiomatic English.

I am looking into that before I reply to his answer,

The thing is, some translaters dont use the exact arabic word

for example, there was an ayat that says we put the earth out like a carpet.

but the arabic word means spread.

so its just a matter if you know someone that knows arabic or not