Crony Capitalism -- your tax dollars at work

Obama Campaign Backers and Bundlers Rewarded With Green Grants and Loans
http://www.thedailybeast.com/news...graft.html

Quote : The Government Accountability Office has been highly critical of the way guaranteed loans and grants were doled out by the Department of Energy, complaining that the process appears “arbitrary” and lacks transparency. These programs might be the greatest—and most expensive—example of crony capitalism in American history. Tens of billions of dollars went to firms controlled or owned by fundraisers, bundlers, and political allies, many of whom—surprise!—are now raising money for Obama again.

If anyone was wondering why a couple presidential candidates want to get rid of the Department of Energy, there's part of it.

I don't think any conservative president was innocent of throwing money at donors after getting elected.

The difference is Obama advertised change, but we got more or less the same thing.

The DOE is as unconstitutional as many other branches of the federal government. Presumably, the DOD would take over all of the (nuclear) weapons research and weapons assurity stuff. A lot of very good work comes out of the national labs though. Work that often benefits both society and industry. If I were to be in charge of the powers granted to DOE (in say, an amendment that made them constitutional), they would be limited to directly performing R&D (private companies have all shown a growing distaste for R&D as it doesn't do well quarter-to-quarter). No loan guarantees, or other market manipulations.

Quote from mohater : I don't think any conservative president was innocent of throwing money at donors after getting elected. The difference is Obama advertised change, but we got more or less the same thing.

And just as the partisan right rubber stamped too much of their team's misdeeds, the partisan left refuses to admit their guy is just as slimy.

Uhh time and time again ive said that lobbyists breach both sides of the aisle, and that spending by politicians is largely dictated by who their biggest campaign donors are. Welcome to the biggest underlying problem of US politics

The problem can largely be solved by getting the government out of businesses it doesn't belong in. Especially in giving tax payer backed loans, any form of subsidy, etc.

Quote from Xygonn : The DOE is as unconstitutional as many other branches of the federal government. Presumably, the DOD would take over all of the (nuclear) weapons research and weapons assurity stuff. A lot of very good work comes out of the national labs though. Work that often benefits both society and industry. If I were to be in charge of the powers granted to DOE (in say, an amendment that made them constitutional), they would be limited to directly performing R&D (private companies have all shown a growing distaste for R&D as it doesn't do well quarter-to-quarter). No loan guarantees, or other market manipulations.

In my opinion, if all the costs incurred by the taxpayers for the R&D work done by government run labs were taken into consideration, it would be easy to see why private industry is less willing to risk their capital for such work. When I worked in government, and involved in budget studies, the actual costs for various programs were routinely manipulated to suit those in charge of them. Hiding such things as "soft" costs, to make some programs appear cost effective, was the norm.

The government doesn't have to account to their investors for all of their losses. Private industry does. Government should offer extremely lucrative grants and tax breaks, for proven, peer reviewed results. Not politically driven payouts, thrown at some companies for pie in the sky schemes, such as Obama's Solyndra scam.

Set clear goals for products, etc., that would benefit the nation as a whole. Revolutionize the electric vehicle? Then market them at a 75% reduced tax rate on profits for a period of time, along with some government low, or no interest loans for capital, after the company raises significant startup investment. The books of the company could be audited by independent firms, and the government would be first in line for reimbursement in the case of failure.

The government should treat our money with the same caution or care, that those of us that own businesses treat our operating capital with. Not as their personal slush funds.

Quote from Elmer : In my opinion, if all the costs incurred by the taxpayers for the R&D work done by government run labs were taken into consideration, it would be easy to see why private industry is less willing to risk their capital for such work. When I worked in government, and involved in budget studies, the actual costs for various programs were routinely manipulated to suit those in charge of them. Hiding such things as "soft" costs, to make some programs appear cost effective, was the norm. The government doesn't have to account to their investors for all of their losses. Private industry does. Government should offer extremely lucrative grants and tax breaks, for proven, peer reviewed results. Not politically driven payouts, thrown at some companies for pie in the sky schemes, such as Obama's Solyndra scam. Set clear goals for products, etc., that would benefit the nation as a whole. Revolutionize the electric vehicle? Then market them at a 75% reduced tax rate on profits for a period of time, along with some government low, or no interest loans for capital, after the company raises significant startup investment. The books of the company could be audited by independent firms, and the government would be first in line for reimbursement in the case of failure. The government should treat our money with the same caution or care, that those of us that own businesses treat our operating capital with. Not as their personal slush funds.

I think you are thinking about this all wrong. The last thing you should emphasize in R&D are short term results. They should not give tax breaks or incentives to pet projects and policies. Want to research a brand new type of battery or super capacitor? That is the type of R&D a private company won't pursue. Want to improve Li-Ion batteries, don't worry, there are tons of private firms working on that. They can get their proven incremental advances.

Quote from Xygonn : I think you are thinking about this all wrong. The last thing you should emphasize in R&D are short term results. They should not give tax breaks or incentives to pet projects and policies. Want to research a brand new type of battery or super capacitor? That is the type of R&D a private company won't pursue. Want to improve Li-Ion batteries, don't worry, there are tons of private firms working on that. They can get their proven incremental advances.

Who said anything about short term?

I'm talking about tax breaks and grants for inventions that benefit society as a whole, given after they've been developed, tied to the success of the company and in the marketplace.

Quote from Elmer : Who said anything about short term? I'm talking about tax breaks and grants for inventions that benefit society as a whole, given after they've been developed, tied to the success of the company and in the marketplace.

Like just about everything NASA has ever invented/produced/accomplished!

Quote from riptide_slick : Like just about everything NASA has ever invented/produced/accomplished!

Exactly, they are developing materials and methods that benefit everyone. The inventions that are really useful and explode in the marketplace are basically random. Like the microwave. These are things you don't expect to get, that are huge benefits. Government R&D is more or less a game of random chance. You shouldn't overly reward the lucky or punish the unlucky. The reward is a new material or method. The horizon on R&D can be ten, twenty or even more years. It is not conducive to typical market force type incentives.

Nambé has its roots in a discarded metal alloy from Los Alamos Labs, what was once junk is actually a desirable product. But one has to wonder how many tentacles Big Oil has at the DOE....

Ron Paul 2012

Quote from riptide_slick : Like just about everything NASA has ever invented/produced/accomplished!

The money spent up through the Apollo missions turned out to be a pretty good bang for the buck, (how much of that was luck is open to debate), but I'm not sure you can make that statement for the program since then.