Florida Teen Shooting

I looked for a thread for this and I didn't seem to find an exact match.

This is the updated story [cnn.com]

I was just wondering what everyone thought about this story. They did release the 911 tapes finally. Some are saying that the guy should be arrested and allow the judge to decide if there is no evidence to support his self defense strategy. With the 911 operator clearly advising him not to approach the suspect I am a little confused as to why he has not been detained.

On a side note please don't let this devolve into a race card fight. Both of the people involved are minorities and unless there is specific evidence of racial discrimination I will flag any of that discussion as Off Topic.

EDIT: Nevermind

Quote from ShengD : What's there to debate? Doesn't seem like Podium material to me.

Well there are a few issues you could debate on, but I tagged it with a NEWS tag instead of a DEBATE tag to encourage some discussion!

from the story and the videos i cant seem to make any sense out of this story.

Quote from Sokiru : Well there are a few issues you could debate on, but I tagged it with a NEWS tag instead of a DEBATE tag to encourage some discussion!

On a side note, and please don't flag me, how does a news tag encourage discussion more than a debate tag? That seems actually the opposite.

Quote from TRNT : On a side note, and please don't flag me, how does a news tag encourage discussion more than a debate tag? That seems actually the opposite.

Well I was hoping that it would encourage discussion about the facts of the case instead of prompting a debate about race. Am I being a little to optimistic?

How was this guy (feel) threatened? Could you please list the basic facts?

Quote from TRNT : How was this guy (feel) threatened? Could you please list the basic facts?

I don't think they have even released any info on his side of the story other than that he felt threatened. All I know so far is this:

Night Watchman saw someone he felt was suspicious.
Night Watchman called 911 and reported it.
911 Operator told him not to engage the suspect.
There was a shot, some screaming, several 911 calls from neighbors.
Cops got on the scene and the kid was dead on the ground with a gunshot wound to the chest.
Night Watchman claims he was acting self defense.
Searching the teen only found a can of ice tea, some twix I think and no weapons.

I would think that the lack of a weapon would more than enough to have him arrested and test his defense in court. I just don't understand why the cops have not arrested him yet. I can't go around shooting people and then claim self defense just because no one was around.

Quote from Sokiru : I don't think they have even released any info on his side of the story other than that he felt threatened. All I know so far is this: Night Watchman saw someone he felt was suspicious. Night Watchman called 911 and reported it. 911 Operator told him not to engage the suspect. There was a shot, some screaming, several 911 calls from neighbors. Cops got on the scene and the kid was dead on the ground with a gunshot wound to the chest. Night Watchman claims he was acting self defense. Searching the teen only found a can of ice tea, some twix I think and no weapons. I would think that the lack of a weapon would more than enough to have him arrested and test his defense in court. I just don't understand why the cops have not arrested him yet. I can't go around shooting people and then claim self defense just because no one was around.

There were people around. People saw them fighting. The watchman was even pinned to the ground at one point.

I have no idea what really occurred, nor how guilty either party is. All I know is that the neighborhood watchman should have just stayed in his vehicle like he was told. I can't see anything that makes it seem like there was some event that required a confrontation to be made by him.

Here in an important detail:

Sanford police released eight 911 calls late Friday. The neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman, tells a dispatcher in the first call that he is following 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. He says Martin is running, but the dispatcher tells him not to follow the teen

Here is one thought: since the teen was not suspect in a particular crime, sine he was not fleeing carrying stolen property, the watchman had no business pursuing him.

Btw this is what happens when you let idiots own guns.

Quote from TRNT : Here is one thought: since the teen was not suspect in a particular crime, sine he was not fleeing carrying stolen property, the watchman had no business pursuing him. Btw this is what happens when you let idiots own guns.

that is a great question. now that I have a little more info maybe I can comment as well, assuming the above info is in fact true.

My first question is who owns the property they are on? this looks like either a condo association or an appartment complex too me. If the watchmen is a co-owner, then I say he has a right to follow the individual on his property. some how I doubt this is the case. which brings me to my second question. does the vicitm have the right to be on said property? (please do not act like I am suggesting that he deserves to be shot if he is tresspassing, I am simply suggesting that if he is on another person property after dark, it may raise suspision that is all)

Quote from TRNT : Here is one thought: since the teen was not suspect in a particular crime, sine he was not fleeing carrying stolen property, the watchman had no business pursuing him.

Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey : All I know is that the neighborhood watchman should have just stayed in his vehicle like he was told. I can't see anything that makes it seem like there was some event that required a confrontation to be made by him.

Quote from TRNT : Btw this is what happens when you let idiots own guns.

Got a way to keep guns out of the hands of idiots? Aside from restricting everyone else, of course.

Quote from Sokiru : Well I was hoping that it would encourage discussion about the facts of the case instead of prompting a debate about race. Am I being a little to optimistic?

The problem is that we don't have all of the facts about the case, therefore it is impossible to come to a reasonable conclusion as to what actually happened.

We don't have the shooter's statement.
We don't have the police report including the observations of the officers who responded to the scene.
We don't have any diagrams or photos of the scene.
We don't have any lab results (if any).

All we have is news reports containing the 911 tapes, the press release of the local PD and the usual statements made by the lawyer retained by the family which is usually made for the purpose of generating more press coverage.

Quote from Sokiru : I don't think they have even released any info on his side of the story other than that he felt threatened. I would think that the lack of a weapon would more than enough to have him arrested and test his defense in court. I just don't understand why the cops have not arrested him yet. I can't go around shooting people and then claim self defense just because no one was around.

The police have not yet arrested the shooter probably because they have sent the case and the results of their investigation to the State Attorney for their review and so the State Attorney can decide whether or not to file charges.

The major reason why the police do not make an arrest until directed to do so by the State Attorney is because of the 6th amendment speedy trial rule. In the state of Florida, there is a 175 day speedy trial period for a felony which begins with the defendant's initial arrest (or when the defendant is taken into custody on the charge), regardless of when the charges are ultimately filed.

Often it takes a lot of time to put a case together that is sufficient to result in a conviction in court. If there is a delay in lab results or other leads to pursue in an investigation that would take a large amount of time which would result in the state going beyond the 175 days limit, they would have to drop charges and let the defendant go free. If the local PD arrested the shooter at the scene or shortly thereafter, then the state would be under pressure to complete the investigation, charge the suspect, have him arraigned and then brought to trial within 175 days. If the defendant is not going anywhere and is not a flight risk or a danger to others if he is free, then the state is basically buying more time by delaying the arrest, if in fact the State Attorney decides through the results of the investigation that there is charges to be filed and an arrest to be made.