California Bans "Pray-Away-The-Gay" Therapy

Quote from charles052 : Why do I need to clarify this?

Because it's inherently contradictory. You claim that gays are predispositioned to such factors, then admit that we all feel societal pressures. Wouldn't that include gay people?

Quote : I'll tell you what. Let me rewrite that statement so you'll understand what I mean. "Predisposition, of course. These numbers are the same even in places like San Fransisco, which is pretty much a gay safe haven. How do you feel societal pressure for being homosexual when you're surrounded by other homosexuals?"

Rewriting an inherent contradiction doesn't magically make it go away.

A gay man living in SF can't experience societal pressure from his family back in Arkansas? A gay woman living in SF is sheltered from the entire rest of the country? A gay couple living in SF, one of whom is active duty military, wasn't effected by DADT?

Quote from charles052 : Predisposition, of course. These numbers are the same even in places like San Fransisco, which is pretty much a gay safe haven. How do you feel societal pressure when you're surrounded by your peers?

So what is it about being gay that makes one want, need, or more likely to commit domestic violence? You're specifically linking the two together, so I'm asking how does one thing (being gay) specifically lead to an increase likelihood of domestic violence.

Quote from smegalicious : The main plaintiff may run into issues over standing since he is no longer directly effected by this law - he is not a minor nor the parent of a minor who would be prevented from seeking such treatment. The case could go forward, however, based upon the standing of the therapists who would be restricted by the law.

I'd like to see parents join in as well. Governments should not interfere with parents wanting to do the right thing for their child; gay, straight, or otherwise.

Where is the ACLU when you need them?

Quote from ASimpleMan : So what is it about being gay that makes one want, need, or more likely to commit domestic violence? You're specifically linking the two together, so I'm asking how does one thing (being gay) specifically lead to an increase likelihood of domestic violence.

I suppose it just does. I'm not qualified to make such assumptions as to why. I just know the statistics.

Quote from smegalicious : Rewriting an inherent contradiction doesn't magically make it go away. A gay man living in SF can't experience societal pressure from his family back in Arkansas? A gay woman living in SF is sheltered from the entire rest of the country? A gay couple living in SF, one of whom is active duty military, wasn't effected by DADT?

Big fricking whoop! Christianity is being attacked by anti-theists all the time. That's societal pressure. Yet, I still lead a pretty happy life and have no need to do drugs or beat my spouse. Go figure!

There's an old saying: Life is what you make it. Apparently, the homosexuals letting themselves be so severely affected by such societal pressures aren't making their life as nice as it can be.

Quote from charles052 : Big fricking whoop! Christianity is being attacked by anti-theists all the time. That's societal pressure. Yet, I still lead a pretty happy life and have no need to do drugs or beat my spouse. Go figure!

Maybe not, but there's plenty of your white, Christian male counterparts that do.

And you do apparently feel a need to treat those who are different than you as inherently inferior.

Quote : There's an old saying: Life is what you make it. Apparently, the homosexuals letting themselves be so severely affected by such societal pressures aren't making their life as nice as it can be.

What does that say about you given your previous claims that gay marriage would somehow "lessen" your own marriage? Why would you let yourself be so severely affected by something that doesn't have anything to do with you?

Quote from charles052 : I suppose it just does. I'm not qualified to make such assumptions as to why. I just know the statistics.

Well there has to be a reason for it if you're saying the two are directly linked. If you're not qualified to "make assumptions as to why" then you're also not qualified to say that being gay causes you to be involved with domestic violence.

Quote from charles052 : So they're basically saying that 15% to 29% of male homosexuals have older brothers.

No, they're saying that up to 29% of homosexuality can associated with having older brothers. There's a huge difference difference between those two statements.

Quote : So this hypothesis, if true, only gives us a biological explanation for up to 29% of the already extremely small percentage of homosexual males in the entire population. You still have no explanation for 71%-85% of the homosexual male population and no explanation for 100% of the homosexual female population.

This doesn't give us a biological explanation at all. It gives us a possible hint at where to start looking for one.

Quote : And then, who's to say the hypothesis isn't completely incorrect and that particular 15%-29% have become homosexual for the exact same reason all other homosexuals have?

Again, you misunderstand. Basically, it means that having older brothers gives you a higher probability of being homosexual, for reasons we don't completely understand. It's not that having older brothers guarantees that you'll be gay and only 29% of people have older brothers.

Quote : What this is, IMO, is the scientific community reaching for any reason to give assurance to the gay-agenda. If they find anything, even something as desperate as this, they will shout it out from the highest rooftops!

What this is, in ACTUALITY -- not my opinion -- are the findings that have been reported after a scientific experiment. This is cold hard data. The interpretation might be taken in different ways -- most importantly, as I said before, as implicating some actual biological reason that is correlated with having brothers. But data itself has no agenda. It's data.

But that's ok -- we all understand that scientific data makes you uncomfortable when it disagrees with your preconceived notions about the world and that you'd rather accuse scientists of cheating than admit that you don't know everything. You're not alone in this feeling.

But will it still be legal for licensed therapists to uncover repressed memories of past lives or UFO abductions?

Quote from mwhite428 : Yes this is a parents choice not the governments PERIOD.

Not really, and I'm not referring only to gay conversion therapy. And the loophole for non-licensed therapists is a really big one -- look at all the "life coaches" who've popped up in the past several years, some who have been licensed therapists (never the legitimate ones).

But I'm not in favor of a law like this except when public funds, court orders, or abuse are involved.

Quote from smegalicious : The main plaintiff may run into issues over standing since he is no longer directly effected by this law - he is not a minor nor the parent of a minor who would be prevented from seeking such treatment. The case could go forward, however, based upon the standing of the therapists who would be restricted by the law.

However, plaintiff might argue for an exception to the mootness doctrine..."questions that are "capable of repetition, yet evading review".

Quote from charles052 : I suppose it just does. I'm not qualified to make such assumptions as to why. I just know the statistics.

Could it be that they cannot/will not use the law to settle disputes as readily as heterosexual couples? Could it be that the police is more likely to take a incidence more serious if between two men as opposed to between two heterosexual couples?

Many people are less likely to question an apparent relationship between two factors when that relationship reinforces their prejudices than when it contradicts them. That is one way how ignorance breeds more ignorance.

Quote from bonkman : No, they're saying that up to 29% of homosexuality can associated with having older brothers. There's a huge difference difference between those two statements.

It's actually much lower than that because that consists of only male homosexuals.

Quote : This doesn't give us a biological explanation at all. It gives us a possible hint at where to start looking for one.

More like a wild goose chase if they're only looking into the biology.

Quote : Again, you misunderstand. Basically, it means that having older brothers gives you a higher probability of being homosexual, for reasons we don't completely understand. It's not that having older brothers guarantees that you'll be gay and only 29% of people have older brothers.

No, I think it's you that misunderstood. There's no indication that this study will lead to anything until they find some correlation between the other 90-98% of homosexuals and this group.

Quote : What this is, in ACTUALITY -- not my opinion -- are the findings that have been reported after a scientific experiment. This is cold hard data. The interpretation might be taken in different ways -- most importantly, as I said before, as implicating some actual biological reason that is correlated with having brothers. But data itself has no agenda. It's data.

Actually, it's luke warm data since A. there was simply too small a group to study every aspect of possible origins. And B. the scientist/researcher/whatever... was obviously biased towards a biological explanation since he automatically ruled out a psychological one because he said he didn't get the same results with younger step-brothers. Of course he wouldn't because you cannot expect step-siblings to have the same kind of relationship as with blood siblings. It's not just data, it's corrupted data.

Quote : But that's ok -- we all understand that scientific data makes you uncomfortable when it disagrees with your preconceived notions about the world and that you'd rather accuse scientists of cheating than admit that you don't know everything. You're not alone in this feeling.

That's fine because you're obviously uncomfortable when facts get in the way of your preconceived notions.

Quote from ASimpleMan : Well there has to be a reason for it if you're saying the two are directly linked. If you're not qualified to "make assumptions as to why" then you're also not qualified to say that being gay causes you to be involved with domestic violence.

But I'm more than qualified to repeat the statistical findings which suggests as much.

Quote from TRNT : Could it be that they cannot/will not use the law to settle disputes as readily as heterosexual couples? Could it be that the police is more likely to take a incidence more serious if between two men as opposed to between two heterosexual couples? Many people are less likely to question an apparent relationship between two factors when that relationship reinforces their prejudices than when it contradicts them. That is one way how ignorance breeds more ignorance.

Speaking of ignorance. You automatically assume the statistics only consists of gay men. Lesbians have shown to be abusive as well. It can be physical abuse, but it's usually not.