Post-Debate Discussion (formally Pre)

Quote from EscapeVelo : The argument that many of these policies and laws and ideas are not exclusive to Christianity and thus makes the reality that they were derived from Christianity somehow untrue, is irrational claptrap. Sorry for being so blunt.

No, it's not. It's basic- very basic -critical thinking.

"Christians discourage theft, so laws against theft are Christian." "Christians wear shoes, so wearing shoes is Christian." It's farking stupid.If it's common to much or most of humanity regardless of faith, it's not from Christianity, but simply coincidental to Christianity. Make youself a Venn diagram. Learn it. Live it.

Tie. Biden was attacking but also looked like a douche with that smile on.

Paul Ryan was over-prepared. Many of his statements had a sort of "I've practices this in the mirror 100 times" type of delivery.

In the end neither looked particularly bad or good. This will not change the momentum in the race.

It is very basic, skiman.

Shariah law in Arab territory is derived from Islam, even though there may be some ideas, policies, and laws that are similar or the same that can be found elsewhere.

The ideas of Marx, may share similarities with others ideas including Christianity, but the creation of the Soviet Union was derived from Karl Marx, not Jesus.

Trying to deny people their history and historical birthright is downright ugly, bro.

Quote from EscapeVelo : Trying to deny people their history and historical birthright is downright ugly, bro.

So stop trying to pretend that we have a "Christian" system of law and acknowledge the achievement that is secular government. The things you want to claim as Christian predate Christianity. As always, you want to claim it for Christianity, but can't come up with any evidence to support your claim- not even a handful of laws that are recognizably Christian.

EDIT: I also haven't forgotten that you owe some evidence to support your claim that most of the countries in Europe have a state church. Could it be that you were very wrong?

Dude Im a secularist, just not a radical secularist. Most of the founding fathers were secularists, just not radical secularists.

What next you denying that Native American tribal law isnt really Native American in origin. That Israel really isnt a Jewish state?

Let go of the hatred in trying to deny people their history and accomplishments, because you are more interested in disempowering them through revision of history and denial of reality.

You are better off arguing for radical secularism on merits, than on selective confirmation bias history.

Joe Biden Dispenses With the Niceties [nymag.com]


We'll see if Obama learned anything tonight.

Quote from Notquiteclapton : On the other hand, I consider you to be a huge hypocrite if you say you believe that life begins at conception but you don't want to protect that life. Not that a hypocritical politician is anything new but that one struck me as pretty egregious. I can understand the controversy surrounding abortion. I can't understand someone saying, "a fetus is a person but I still think that it's ok to kill him, full stop."

I thought Ryan said he thinks life starts at conception but that the policy of the Romney administration would be a bit different from that. Or, in other words, he thinks one thing personally but doesn't think that is viable as a policy for the country at this time.

Quote from Notquiteclapton : Biden pressed on what I consider to be the Republican's Achilles Heel just right: they claim to want to balance the budget but they don't have the balls to take on defense spending.

I don't know if I missed it or what, but I thought Ryan was saying they don't want to cut military but they don't want to increase it either.

...But Romney's been going around saying he wants to increase military spending 150 billion or whatever.

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO : Who the fark is this Reince Priebus fool?

not sure if serious.

He's one of the stars of "RNC Sham 2012" and of one of the scripted convention votes. Plus he's got a smirk on his face someone should wipe off for him.

Quote from andyfico : Obama doubled the DJI??? How exactly?

The same way he caused all those problems to which I was responding.

Quote from Deusxmachina : ...But Romney's been going around saying he wants to increase military spending 150 billion or whatever.

More like $2T over 10 years....

Quote from Iaaaiws : I'm surprised that a post-debate CNN poll gave the winning nod to Ryan 48% to 44% over Biden. I might have expected that from a Fox News poll but not necessarily from CNN.

FiveThirtyEight:

Quote : A CBS News-Knowledge Networks poll of undecided voters who watched the debate found 50 percent giving the advantage to Mr. Biden, 31 percent to the Republican, Representative Paul D. Ryan, and 19 percent calling the debate a tie. A CNN poll of debate-watchers, however, had 48 percent giving the debate to Mr. Ryan, and 44 percent to Mr. Biden. The surveys are not directly comparable: the CBS News poll was conducted among undecided voters only, while the CNN poll was among all debate viewers. But it might be noted that Mr. Biden’s margin in the CBS News poll was somewhat larger than Mr. Ryan’s in the CNN survey, which was within the poll’s margin of sampling error.

Quote from Notquiteclapton : On the other hand, I consider you to be a huge hypocrite if you say you believe that life begins at conception but you don't want to protect that life. Not that a hypocritical politician is anything new but that one struck me as pretty egregious. I can understand the controversy surrounding abortion. I can't understand someone saying, "a fetus is a person but I still think that it's ok to kill him, full stop."

In that case do you consider Biden a hypocrite as well, since he said he accepts his Catholic church teaching to the same effect, but that he doesn't want to impose his personal view on the country as a whole? Or did you miss that part entirely in you blind zeal to criticize Ryan ?

Quote from Radeck : In that case do you consider Biden a hypocrite as well, since he said he accepts his Catholic church teaching to the same effect, but that he doesn't want to impose his personal view on the country as a whole? Or did you miss that part entirely in you blind zeal to criticize Ryan ?

It's always jarring to see conservatives equivocate on abortion. It's always so important to them until it isn't.

Did anyone else here Biden claim he voted against the Wars and against the Medicare expansion during Bush's admin?

FOX NEWS' CHRIS WALLACE: I've Never Seen A Candidate As Disrespectful As Joe Biden Was Tonight
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http://www.businessinsider.com/ch...ng-2012-10


FYI --- before you starting beat the "...buttt!!! .... buttt!!!" It's FAUX NEWSZZ!!!!!!" Chris Wallace, son of..... Mike Wallace? Son of a big-big-big-time liberal at CBS. Chris Wallace definitely is a liberal as well. Walter Cronkite is perhaps the only bigger name at CBS News unless one of y'all can ring a bell on a bigger journalist.