U.S. Economy Unexpectedly Contracts in Fourth Quarter

Quote from Krazen1211 : If your parents are anything like the average Medicare couple, they paid roughly $100k in taxes for $300k in benefits. Who is going to pay their freeloaded $200k? You?

And you.

Or is your "solution" to consign them to an early death?

Quote from 124nic8 : You've got it backwards. It was a failure of capitalism which destroyed a million jobs, that got "my fellow" elected. And of course, McCain's failure to recognize what was happening. "The fuandamentals of the economy are strong." J. McCain 2008 as the economy was collapsing.

Huh? When's the last time time the U.S. had actual capitalism? It sure wasn't 2008.

Quote from 124nic8 : After 8 years of Republican leadership? I doubt that...

Neocon keynesians aren't capitalists just because they have an R in front of their name.

Quote from Krazen1211 : If your parents are anything like the average Medicare couple, they paid roughly $100k in taxes for $300k in benefits. Who is going to pay their freeloaded $200k? You?

His kids will pay it. "Thanks, dad!"

Quote from politicaljunkie : You regularly knock him for it (whether directly or indirectly). Just earlier in this thread you gave him shit for it. And then there is: So lets not pretend you haven't given Obama shit for low/slow growth. All while ignoring the headwinds caused by a deep debt-induced recession that dramatcially hit the low and middle classes who have been deleveraging rather than spending (which constitutes 70% of our GDP numbers) And that is why you need to READ the details on behind the GDP numbers. Here are the cliffs notes from the article i linked to: -Consumer spending rose 2.2 percent and savings grew to 4.7 percent from 2.6 percent in the previous quarter. Residential construction surged 15.3 percent, leading housing to be a plus for GDP for the first time in nearly eight years. -If anything you've got to feel pretty good that the private sector was close to 3 percent despite Sandy," Paulsen said. "You've got to be impressed with the equipment spending, software spending, residential spending, big-ticket, autos, consumption - overall, there are just some good parts of this thing.

The mere fact that you have to crow about 'close to' 3% growth when the US average for the past 200 years is 3.6% is sign enough of your own fellow's record.

Not to mention, of course, that his $9 trillion in debt will sap the growth of his successor. He said so himself.

Quote from DJPlayer : thus haircuts in 2006 would also have an equivalent effect on GDP..

And? We were in a bubble economy at that point. That is an apples to motorcylcles comparison. The economic conditions, factors, headwinds and tailwinds are dramatically different.

Quote : but keep in mind today's news: Jobless Claims in U.S. Rose 38,000 Last Week to 368,000 now an increase is typical after X-Mas.. but this is greater than average. also GDP as being affected by decreased exports and sluggish company income (of course along with Government spending).

It isn't greater than average. It is 8k higher than the low end of the fluxuation over the last year (360-390)

And yes, there were other factors. But economists are consistantly stating that the gdp drop was mostly due to the one-time hits to gdp--which is encouraging news, especially when you look at the other positive statistics.

Look, things aren't rosy--but this drop isn't what you guys are trying to make of it. I remember when the right derided the left for pointing out the problems with the economy when we were heading into the end of GWB's term. And that was when there wasn't really any good news mixed in the mess. We were considered as "cheering for bad news". You guys are starting to look the same way by cherry-picking numbers to reinforce your negative views. Sure, we aren't growing like crazy, but that can't be expected when savings rates and deleveraging is up. Slow and steady is the way to go when climbing out of a debt-induced recession. We need to be careful. No more tax increases. Be careful with cuts. But focusing on all of the gloom and doom while discounting or ignoring the good signs makes you guys look more and more petty and unreasonable/irrational.

Quote from 124nic8 : And you. Or is your "solution" to consign them to an early death?

Ah, but what if I decide to become a lazy freeloading 47%er sitting on food stamps, unemployment, and the rest of your party's welfare programs?

Who's going to pay my share for your parents' Medicare? Or do you not give a damn about your parents, so you want to dump them on someone else?

Quote from Krazen1211 : The mere fact that you have to crow about 'close to' 3% growth when the US average for the past 200 years is 3.6% is sign enough of your own fellow's record. Not to mention, of course, that his $9 trillion in debt will sap the growth of his successor. He said so himself.

If only it were that simple. This is exactly why i think everyone should be required to pass a Macroeconomics course or two.

And i love how you place the blame solely on him for the debt. This is why i frequently confuse you and Radeck. You're equally irrational and unreasonable partisans.

Quote from redass : It is the most certainly the degree to which GDP is changed that matters. Perhaps I wasn't clear with what I said. My point was that the question you asked is ignoring the degree to which cuts have an effect. "you're discussing the 2006 DoD cuts.. when that took effect did the GDP go negative? The answer is on my post in the previous page which shows every Quarter since GDP was measured.." The negative or positive GDP growth is not solely determined by the cuts, so asking if previous cuts also resulted in a negative GDP growth is not really a good question if you haven't broken down the GDP into it's components (which you did not).

so I need to do the work for you.. You make a claim.. but provide NOTHING.. fine then..

Real personal consumption expenditures increased +2.2 percent in Q4, compared with an increase of +1.6 percent in Q3.

Real nonresidential fixed investment increased +8.4 percent in Q4, compared with a decrease of -1.8 percent in Q3.

Exports decreased -5.7 percent in Q4, compared with an increase of +1.9 percent in Q3
.
Imports decreased -3.2 percent, compared with a decrease of -0.6 percent in Q3.

Government spending decreased -15.0 percent in Q4, in contrast to an increase of +9.5 percent in Q3. (keep in mind the difference then between Q2 and Q4).

now since I doubt you know the GDP formula.. I'll do that for you too.

GDP = C + I + G + (X-M)

If you start going through these numbers you'll see that our GDP has recently been propped up by bloated government spending. To decrease them back to standard values and end with a negative GPD is unacceptable.

Why would our exports decrease during 4th Quarter (the holiday time of the year)?

Quote from Krazen1211 : Ah, but what if I decide to become a lazy freeloading 47%er sitting on food stamps, unemployment, and the rest of your party's welfare programs?

Then the Dems will have another voter.

Quote : Who's going to pay my share for your parents' Medicare? Or do you not give a damn about your parents, so you want to dump them on someone else?

I give a dam enough to support government programs to take care of them.

Cause I wouldn't be able to afford my Dad's quad bypass operation in any case. Or his insurance premium afterwards.

Quote from politicaljunkie : If only it were that simple. This is exactly why i think everyone should be required to pass a Macroeconomics course or two. And i love how you place the blame solely on him for the debt. This is why i frequently confuse you and Radeck. You're equally irrational and unreasonable partisans.

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

Quote from DJPlayer : so I need to do the work for you.. You make a claim.. but provide NOTHING.. fine then.. Real personal consumption expenditures increased +2.2 percent in Q4, compared with an increase of +1.6 percent in Q3. Real nonresidential fixed investment increased +8.4 percent in Q4, compared with a decrease of -1.8 percent in Q3. Exports decreased -5.7 percent in Q4, compared with an increase of +1.9 percent in Q3 . Imports decreased -3.2 percent, compared with a decrease of -0.6 percent in Q3. Government spending decreased -15.0 percent in Q4, in contrast to an increase of +9.5 percent in Q3. (keep in mind the difference then between Q2 and Q4). now since I doubt you know the GDP formula.. I'll do that for you too. GDP = C + I + G + (X-M) If you start going through these numbers you'll see that our GDP has recently been propped up by bloated government spending. To decrease them back to standard values and end with a negative GPD is unacceptable. Why would our exports decrease during 4th Quarter (the holiday time of the year)?

WTF is with the attacks? I didn't claim a damned thing. All I claimed was that you weren't asking pertinent questions, apparently because you're too busy to have a conversation because you're more concerned with trying to attack, attack, attack.

What if in addition to cutting government spending back to "standard values" (whatever that means) there were also other factors, as mentioned in the OP's article? Would that be acceptable? What would be acceptable to you? I think we should be trying to please you, you seem very important. You don't really need to respond, I have no interest in your politics-based garbage.

Quote from andyfico : Summer of recovery? LOL

This sounds extremely stupid but it's actually where we're at. The Fed has been on a shopping spree since 09 buying up stupid amounts of junk to keep asset prices high. It's working in the sense that a $3 T+ balance sheet is no biggie if it means the S&P can get back to it's pre-crash high.

But the risk is the economy improving to the degree that interest rates have to rise to meet banker's needs causing the Fed to figure out how to exit. No POMO, no stock market = panic. Will make 2008 look like walk in the park.

The gvmnt cannot and will not stop spending money it doesn't have until the market cuts it off. No borrowing = no spending = no GDP. They can play every trick with the numbers what they want but no one can spend themselves out of debt anymore than they can eat themselves out of obesity.

Quote from 124nic8 : After 8 years of Republican leadership? I doubt that...

8 years of government expansion. I wouldn't call GWB a classic conservative. If only there was a word for it. Oh yeah, neoconservative.

Quote from redass : WTF is with the attacks? I didn't claim a damned thing. All I claimed was that you weren't asking pertinent questions, apparently because you're too busy to have a conversation because you're more concerned with trying to attack, attack, attack. What if in addition to cutting government spending back to "standard values" (whatever that means) there were also other factors, as mentioned in the OP's article? Would that be acceptable? What would be acceptable to you? I think we should be trying to please you, you seem very important. You don't really need to respond, I have no interest in your politics-based garbage.

This entire "response" had no pertinent information in it whatsoever.. it was almost as if you were talking to yourself aloud. Then your "response" ends with "you need not respond". You responding because you didn't want a response?? If you have anything of substance to add be my guest.

In more breaking news Obama's job counsel isn't being renewed and was just dissipated. But they haven't met in over a year anyways..

Quote from DJPlayer : This entire "response" had no pertinent information in it whatsoever.. it was almost as if you were talking to yourself aloud. Then your "response" ends with "you need not respond". You responding because you didn't want a response?? If you have anything of substance to add be my guest. In more breaking news Obama's job counsel isn't being renewed and was just dissipated. But they haven't met in over a year anyways..

Sorry, I guess I need to clarify it for you. I thought the topic was an interesting one until you decided that instead of an intelligent conversation based on facts, you turned it into political opinion, full of the usual BS that invades every single thread if it sticks around here long enough. When you say things like, "our GDP has recently been propped up by bloated government spending. To decrease them back to standard values and end with a negative GPD is unacceptable." you make it painfully obvious that you don't actually want to learn anything, and that you already have all the answers before you even have the facts. Hence, there is no point in discussing anything with you.