12" Monoprice Monolith 500W THX Ultra Certified Subwoofer Amplifier Expired

LOL...I think you need to reread what you posted about people on AVS having issues with Monoprice

That is very true and Onkyo had issues for many years. If you read the old forums you will some of my old posts with products with multiple failures...and trust me their customer service at the time was not great
I never paid for anything though and they outright replaced two of my products
I wasted a lot of time with their products though...and they drove me from the brand
My understanding is that Onkyo ( Pioneer) is not a good financial situation and trying to find a buyer
The Sound United deal didnt go through for what ever reason

Never had any issue with Apple products

I am not sure where you get your value/price ideas since you mention often that something is overpriced...

Something is worth what the market is willing to pay for it..no more and no less


Cant tell a cheap receiver from expensive separates?.
I would say they have hearing issues and by the way after being on AVS for decades I have never seen a credible double blind test with those results

I for one can hear different characteristics in the different room correction systems that I am accustomed to
I am sure I could Audyssey from YPAO from MCACC
All three have different characteristics to my ears

What specific Anthem and Lexicon products are suggesting are somewhat " rebranded"?

You do realize that Sony is getting out of the AVR market...since you read AVS forum I thought you would know

All those other companies that you mention are also doing a lot of other things besides A/V. Even having the money doesnt mean as a large company you are going to invest in a part of the company that is not offering the best return
Again...since you read AVS you know that Sony is dropping out, as I mentioned before, Onkyo-Pioneer is in a poor financial situation and Denon-Marantz is probably not far behind
Denon-Marantz was given a life line with the Sound United aquisition...but time will tell

Yamaha, I would say , is in the best financial position of any of them

I have never seen( or heard) of $5K speaker cables

But anyway..products are positioned and priced for the market they are in
A person buying a Honda automobile is probably not looking at a Mercedes
Honda sells a lot more vehicles but its a completely different consumer segment that Mercedes sells into

You don't believe in blind tests? Just want to make sure.

An amplifiers job is to amplify an input signal. It doesn't matter if its a $50k or $500 as long as its not clipping. Everything else is snake oil.

Do you think this - https://www.monoandstereo.com/201...block.html is going to sound 100x better than a $500 AVR that will do multiple channels?

Don't compare YPAO, Audyssey, Diract etc - those are specific algorithms that of course will sound different.

There are plenty of companies who sell $10k and even $50k speaker cables, power cords, interconnects and all kinds of nonsense. Monster Cable who got very rich off ripping off consumers by selling overpriced cables in stores is a great example.

go here - https://www.audioquest.com/produc...ricebook/1

they have cables with names like 'Dragon (Mythical Creatures)' that cost $50k - I'm not kidding.

Every single review and test has concluded there is zero difference vs a $10 cable.

A Honda and Mercedes have different engineering, just an F1 car is much higher engineering than a Merc S class. A high end audio amplifier does nothing a well designed cheap receiver doesn't (within operating limits). You are paying for brand name alone.

A product is overpriced if it doesn't perform better than a cheaper one - as simple as that. This isn't the art world where people will pay millions for an abstract painting, we need to be objective.

Probably would have helped you to understand if you had read the statements that I made

Why would I need to " defend" my opinion
You have already acknowledged that opinions don't have to be based on facts....ie..measurements

From a choice of a ported sub
Why would I consider the PB2000 when the Monolith 12 was available with better specs and also less expensive?

Hopefully that answered your question ..if I was going ported I was looking for at least something had the measurement of the Monolith as a minimum

Going further in my home theater room I might switch what I have now, remove the Bowers and def tech and buy a second Monolith 12"

No actually you didn't but that's ok, that wasn't my main point and technically you "acknowledged" it also when you said "I said there are measurements and there are opinions
They are not the same"
The main problem is all these discussions all start on one side "opinions"(what sounds good). During these debates the people that "choose" to believe "measurements" tells them what "sounds" good use it as a "defense" to that opinion, that's all it is.

They start to say or insinuate one is better/accurate/good than the other(s) to EVERYONE.
In your case you use "fact" vs "false".
The BIG misinformation here is "in this context" on how something "sounds" like, "measurements" provides NO FACTS. You can choose to believe that it does but thats just an opinion.
This is proven all the time, heck this very discussion between us is proof.

The major problem which has been the case for decades people start to believe that ONE factor/bias/opinion so much they come in here and post videos "in defense" as proof that something is "better" because he said so.
The irony is he even says in the videos "in my opinion" but it presented as "fact" in here!

They even exclude items because "measurements"say they are not "better".
Yet people find out the opposite on a regular basis when they do compare by listening.

They give an "opinion" on a comparison on what they "sound" like while never actually "listening" to one of them.
When that opinion doesn't agree with "measurements" which they label as "fact" that opinion is labeled as "false" which is completely false "in that context".

That's just not fair to people trying to find what "sounds good" to them.

I am not even going to try to unpack all that

I will just deal with a few words you posted..

"measurements" provides NO FACTS

I am going to disagree with that

What you might want to say is that facts may not have anything to do with opinions...


That I can agree with.....

Well of course you do, that goes without saying, here is the whole point not taken out of "context" so people can see why:

"The BIG misinformation here is "in this context" on how something "sounds" like, "measurements" provides NO FACTS. You can choose to believe that it does but thats just an opinion"

The irony here, you clearly choose the 12" over the other subs you were considering and it wasn't based on that ONE FACT(measurements), other factor(s) superseded it!

Measurements absolutely provides facts....unless there are issues with the accuracy of the tools of measurement of course

Not even sure what you are talking about in the irony of my decision...
I never posted all the details of my decision....and clearly you are not a mind reader

Stated measurements( from reliable sources) absolutely played a major part( if not the majority portion) in my decision

Well that's the great thing about going by "measurements" like you do, you don't have to be a "mind reader its all there to see.

You said you excluded the PB2000 because the "measurements" already told you the 12" SOUNDED "better" and now you just said these "measurements" "absolutely played a major part" on how it SOUNDS over your other choices.

I believe you said they were " the PB3000, Monolith 15, Monolith12 and revel 1508 were the ones under consideration"

I don't have to read anyone's mind here but feel free to clarify but how does the 12" SOUND better based on those "measurements"(FACTS) over those?

BTW when you measured the 12" in your setup did you get the same exact "measurements" you read about?

LOL.....I didnt say I excluded the PB2000 because the measurements already told me the 12" sounded better.....
Your attempt at mind reading is failing you

What I did say was that the measurements( THE FACTS) played a part in my decision

What are you asking me if I got the exact same measurements that I read about?

Are you suggesting that the testing methods used inaccurate equipment/methods?

By the way...I checked a few sources on the measurements of the Monolith 12"
They seemed to be inline with each other

Actually you did unless you misspoke.
The CONTEXT of your response to Vajratlr's post was solely on how the 12" vs PB2000 SOUNDED.
You argued/defended that the 12" was "better" because "measurements" told you so, especially since you haven't even listened to the PB2000.
You went on and said why would you consider the PB2000 when the "measurements" and price was "better".
We know you were wrong with the price since Vajratlr got the PB2000 for less.
As a matter of fact you even provided the movie you used to "listen" to the 12".

That clearly sounds like when you said the 12" was "better" because of FACTS/measurements , you meant SOUND WISE.

In this CONTEXT if you are going to define what SOUNDS "better" using FACTS(measurements) there is no "inline", its either better or not, thats the beauty you can show it.

Odd that you showed us everything but the "measurements" of the 12" and PB2000

Since you said FACTS(measurements) "absolutely played a major part" when you choose the 12",can you show where the FACTS told you the 12" SOUNDED "better" than the PB3000, Monolith 15 and revel 1508?

Whatever "measurements' that told you the 12" was "better", how did your "measurements" in your layout compare to them?
Unless you believe those "measurements" are universal no matter where you put it?

I spoke about the measurements.....there was a performance measurement chart attached that was in the context of my statements

if you need that chart let me know

I didnt say " better"about anyone else's opinion..LOL

Already stated that many times...facts dont have to necessarily relate to opinions made
This thread is a perfect example of that

I know what you mean like when someone interjects "I have the opposite opinion" into a discussion about what something SOUNDS like AND never even LISTENED to one of them!
Then they use a "performance measurement chart" as a defense to that opinion.
They go on to say the opposing opinion is "false" and their opinion is "fact". That is clearly FALSE and as I have said many of times UNLESS you choose to believe they are the same, then it's just an OPINION

What you HEAR is what you HEAR and that's it!
There are no facts/chart/measurements/specs that define good or bad for EVERYONE, no matter how much these people try!

Again
Measurements are facts....unless the measuring device was not credible
Opinions dont have to be based on any facts....

Again
EXCEPT if the CONTEXT is about how it SOUNDS then it's just an OPINION!

If you disagree here is your chance to prove it.

You KEEP saying "Measurements are facts" and you get these "facts" from this "performance measurement chart".
This "chart" makes a list of what is "better", unless "performance" means something different with this chart, if so please explain.

Since you offered to bring up this "performance chart" again, would you show us how the 'facts" RANK the PB3000, Monolith 15, Monolith 12 and revel 1508 on "better"?

Since YOU said these "facts" "absolutely played a major part( if not the majority portion) in my decision", how did you conclude the Monolith 12 was the "better" one?

The measurements are the facts. The measurements are the performance data

I will say again...opinions dont necessarily have to do with facts

Some posts in this thread clearly show that

You saw the chart that was posted here...right?

I used this..and others...when I was evaluating

Not sure why that is so hard for you to grasp?