expired Posted by Navy-Wife | Staff • Jun 18, 2022
Jun 18, 2022 10:43 PM
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expired Posted by Navy-Wife | Staff • Jun 18, 2022
Jun 18, 2022 10:43 PM
ACOPOWER 12V Monocrystalline Solar Panel Module: 200W $133, 100W
+ Free Shipping$66
$180
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These size and wattage of solar panels are great for using with towable trailers, RVS, camping and pulling out of a garage or closet (along with a rechargeable battery or power station) to provide low wattage power in an emergency. They're small and compact enough easily pick up and carry outside or placed and mounted around vents, skylights and other areas that would be next to impossible to fit a full size solar panel.
If you want to build a dedicated solar array for your home these small portable panels are NOT a good choice. They have a higher cost per watt than other larger panels, need more hardware to mount on a rail system, can require more cabling work, and are just generally a lot more work to install.
Right now a good target for panels alone + shipping is about $0.45/watt. You can also buy them by the pallet to get even better deals and lower overall unit shipping costs. If you have a local supplier you can save yourself a significant amount of money by picking them up yourself.
I have posted and contributed to other solar panel threads, and I've included a few of the links below. If you go through the comments you might find some general useful information. 👍
1 https://slickdeals.net/f/15756952-acopower-100w-12v-compact-monocrystalline-solar-panel-module-panel-only-66-free-shipping
2 https://slickdeals.net/f/15806137-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
3 https://slickdeals.net/f/15837301-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
Otherwise for powering general equipment, typically one connects to a solar battery charging controller preferably with the MPPT feature.
That is a device which takes whatever the output of the solar panel is and uses the power to charge one or more batteries attached to the charger (the voltage and current taken out of the solar panel may vary; the MPPT feature of some chargers / charging controllers actively looks for the optimum voltage¤t load to get the most power out of the panel in any given time based on the light level etc. so the most power at the right voltage and current is always delivered to the battery for optimized charging).
So one could have several types of deep cycle type lead acid battery (flooded, sealed / AGM, gel cell) or a lithium iron phosphate type battery connected to the battery charger, and one can possibly use one or two or sometimes more such batteries connected in series depending on whether you want a roughly 12V voltage single battery system or a roughly 24V voltage dual battery system (two 12V batteries series connected), etc.
Then the battery / batteries are possibly / typically connected to another piece of equipment which is a DC to AC inverter which can generate 120VAC or 220/240VAC according to your model's type and the power voltage/frequency used in your location so you can power suitable devices typically powered by the AC mains grid by plugging them into the inverter instead when you are traveling off-grid (e.g. camping, RV, outdoors work site ) or have a particular location (shed, gate, outdoor equipment or whatever ) which needs constant power available day or night possibly from the batteries but which gets that power ultimately partly or wholly from the solar cells charging the batteries during the light hours. One can also have a setup that switches from AC mains grid power to battery backup / solar power depending on how much of which power source is available at a given time.
Anyway you don't HAVE to have an DC to AC inverter, and if you're powering things like USB-C powered chargers / devices (laptops, cell phones, tablets ...), low voltage DC LED lighting, DC powered equipment / security systems / tools / pump / whatever then maybe all you will need is low voltage DC power coming from the solar panel and/or the attached batteries.
Also of course you don't HAVE to have the attached batteries and battery charger, maybe you only need to power charging laptops / phones etc. or something that can deal with the power being available or intermittent day / night etc.
A common alternative to using the solar battery charger controller and batteries is an integrated 'power bank' type unit which includes in itself batteries, a charger for its batteries, maybe conversion to output some USB / USB-type-C ports to plug in other stuff to be powered / charged, maybe includes an DC to AC inverter to power AC mains plug in type equipment etc.
So basically the solar panel(s) generate as much power as they can and is drawn from them whenever there is some modest light on them (even overcast, cloudy but ideally sunny).
A battery or power bank system can store that energy for future use or to supply higher bursts of power if needed to augment / substitute what the solar panel(s) put out at any time.
A DC-to-AC inverter can output AC 120V or 220/240V to power plug in equipment if needed.
A DC input battery charger can be powered from solar panels or batteries input and used to charge / power other things like vehicle, laptop batteries, USB-type-C charging outputs, etc.
100w same price 50 days ago
https://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/fp/715918
Surely we have some people with experience?
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I think I am doing something wrong? Or is that usually how much it provides?
I do prefer the stealthy black paint on these, even though cheaply painted which the paint can be easily scratched off. I tested the 100w model vs the Renogy 100w compact one ( which is slightly larger) w/ a multimeter on a sunny breezy afternoon, the Acopower produced ~4.5 amps vs Renogy 's 5.5 amps. I resold it cuz of the lesser amps & it's not precise mount fitment in my specific case.
Watt is a unit of power which doesn't get stated over time in most contexts, so 100 Watts for one second is
the same as 100 Watts for a week etc. i.e. the panel can generate the same constant 200 Watts "forever"
as long as it has full sunlight intensity as input.
A Watt (power) is the rate of energy (power * time) generation, though,
so one (Watt * second) is the unit of over all energy which is called the Joule = Ws.
So 200 Watt hours would be 200 Watts * 3600 seconds in Joules though your electricity meter
may read that out in kilo Watt hours it's really truly energy in Joules * 3.6 million (for 1 kilo * 3600s/hour).
The important thing with Solar generation though that does involve Watts and hours though is the measure
of the intensity of solar power reaching the land in a given day or month or averaged over a year for a
given location on earth for a given season of the year.
That matters because the sunlight is most directly and intensely irradiating on the land near the equator and as the latitude moves toward more extreme values the intensity of sunlight power decreases with the angle.
It also matters because of the latitude and season the number of hours of and intensity of daylight irradiance per day changes and also it will vary in a given location based on typical weather / climate e.g. how cloudy it usually would be
in a given month etc.
The following page is one of many possibly available solar resource atlas map pages on the web which shows for
a given chosen rough location what the statistics are for the solar energy that will on average reach that location per
day averaged over a month or over the year.
Obviously if you have other factors like shading or your panels pointed in some odd direction then your particular energy irradiance may be less than the reported value, and of course it'll vary with the actual weather on a day by day basis.
But the general idea is you cold calculate how much energy an ideal solar panel in that area is likely to be able to generate at best for your area in a given month based on the latitude and general climate statistics.
https://maps.nrel.gov/re-atlas/?a...78125&zL=4
You can use tools like this:
https://maps.nrel.gov/re-atlas/?a...78125&zL=4
to find out for a given month what approximate historical / estimated solar energy is even likely to be available at
your location per. day.
But that itself doesn't answer the question of PEAK power generation which you should be looking at ideally
(for simplicity) on THE most fully sunny / clear summer mid-day. Other times (e.g. the sun is not directly overhead at the zenith in the morning or afternoon) you'll get somewhat less than peak power because of the angle of the light causing a bit less irradiance.
If you check it in seasons other than near the mid-summer equinox (for an equatorial spot anyway) then you'll get a bit less than the peak value because of the worse angle of the sunlight due to the changed inclination of the earth, though for non-equatorial locations of course you'd be best off at the mid-summer date for your location whenever the sun is as high as it is going to get for the year on a completely clear sunny day.
Any degree of shading on the panels will reduce your output a bit.
If the panels aren't tilted to point normally toward the sun the output will reduce a bit because of the angle of the light so it's overall best to point it to the average peak spot of the sun in your area where you'll get roughly equal amounts of sunlight before it gets to that spot in the day and after it goes past that peak spot as the afternoon / evening ensues.
And of course the panel must be reasonably clean or it'll reduce the output a bit.
If you're not using a MPPT converter then you may not be operating the panel(s) at their most efficient set points so again you'll get a bit less efficiency.
And if your load / conversion equipment can only take in / convert NNN Watts or it has some inefficiency that is includes in the "Watts" reading it gives then of course the panel might not be limiting the Watts but rather the load
and converter equipment's characteristice.
But that said if you said you're in Ecuador and measure only 150W or whatever you said coming out of a 200W (or whatever you said) rated panel on a clear equinox day at noon and the panel is pointed right at the sun then, yeah,
I'd assume the panel or the energy converter / meter may not be producing quite the expected result.
If you're testing in Toronto in the fall then, yeah, it's probably just your latitude, the season, etc. and the panel may be fine.
I think I am doing something wrong? Or is that usually how much it provides?
I don't know if it's even possible with your system (voltages and currents and settings etc.) or if you'd even want to test, but you could maybe test each of the two panels independently at around the same time / conditions and see if each one puts out nearly 100W in ideal conditions individually. If they each work as expected then maybe
it is something to do with a bit of shading or panel to sun angle or something in the series connection.
If they both read about 80W MPPT under the best possible peak production conditions then there's something a bit off about the measurement / converter / panels or what not but again you can only expect 100W out from a 100W rated panel under the peak sun test conditions e.g. not in Finland in the fall.
I think I am doing something wrong? Or is that usually how much it provides?
These size and wattage of solar panels are great for using with towable trailers, RVS, camping and pulling out of a garage or closet (along with a rechargeable battery or power station) to provide low wattage power in an emergency. They're small and compact enough easily pick up and carry outside or placed and mounted around vents, skylights and other areas that would be next to impossible to fit a full size solar panel.
If you want to build a dedicated solar array for your home these small portable panels are NOT a good choice. They have a higher cost per watt than other larger panels, need more hardware to mount on a rail system, can require more cabling work, and are just generally a lot more work to install.
Right now a good target for panels alone + shipping is about $0.45/watt. You can also buy them by the pallet to get even better deals and lower overall unit shipping costs. If you have a local supplier you can save yourself a significant amount of money by picking them up yourself.
I have posted and contributed to other solar panel threads, and I've included a few of the links below. If you go through the comments you might find some general useful information. 👍
1 https://slickdeals.net/f/15756952-acopower-100w-12v-compact-monocrystalline-solar-panel-module-panel-only-66-free-shipping
2 https://slickdeals.net/f/15806137-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
3 https://slickdeals.net/f/15837301-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
Normal MSRP, not sales, coupon deals, or by the pallet.
Even Alibaba doesn't have them that low unless you go to polycrystalline panels.
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if they are rated for the same "nominal" Voltage.
As OmahaJeff said above you can certainly use mis-matched panels in the same "system" but you'd do that by
somehow connecting them as independent sources to a load so they're not directly electrically in series or directly electrically in parallel.
To the extent I'll have some mixed size / type panels I'll personally run them into separate MPPT converters per panel to aggregate the power optimally, same concept as having per-panel micro inverters or whatever.
But that's not a particularly typical choice just to run a couple of small panels so I'm not so much suggesting it for
you.
The easiest thing to do owning mixed panels would probably be either use them independently or going into something with two independent inputs.
for competitive reasons or to clear out overstock after a big production that had a surplus, etc.
I don't know if Alibaba is a great source for accurate wholesale pricing other than maybe for Chinese made panels but even then it's not exactly official.
I have seen prices listed in that ballpark roughly but as with any "commodity" they fluctuate all the time.
I would only wish to be in a place where I could buy palettes full of panels to make a big system, it's nice to see PV getting so affordable and competitive as a primary energy source!
EDIT: That all said I'd be happy to know where I could get high quality much larger panels for prices more closely approaching those levels but only buying one or two at a time. I think OmahaJeff also suggested the answer there -- you'd be better off checking your regional suppliers to see if you can find a deal that involves you directly going to pick them up and saving on any extra costs due to shipping / handling, installers, contractors, resellers, etc.
Normal MSRP, not sales, coupon deals, or by the pallet.
Even Alibaba doesn't have them that low unless you go to polycrystalline panels.
So to answer the question how many Amperes for 300W @ 12V then that's 25A at maximum for the panel input current, so if they sell a 20A and a 30A rated unit I'd get at least the 30A rated one.
The amperage charging your battery is a somewhat different number though because the charge controller may be
able to be used in systems with different Volts & Amps coming in from the panel side and different Volts and Amperes charging the battery. But in this case assuming a "12V" approximate worst case voltage (the batteries will typically be a bit higher voltage than that even in a "12V" system though I suppose they can deplete to/a little under there maybe depending on the details), the answer happens to be the same 25A *12V = 300W charging power so 25A charging current at least would be needed.
Your biggest problem though is making a 300W system out of a 200W panel and a 100W panel. They won't play together nicely in series as far as I know. And though in theory you could run them in parallel if they've got well matched MPP voltages, it may not be the ideal plan to do it as OmahaJeff suggests and he went on to suggest that you use an external fuse at least in this configuration (and maybe also a Schottky diode) coming out of the 100W panel so the 200W panel can't cause any possible problems for the smaller semi-parallel panel.
I will also end up with mixed type / power panels (not ideal but it'll do) but in my case I'm expecting to run them into different converter loads effectively so I won't have to try to parallel them with fuses / diodes and a single MPPT converter load.
You might want to reconsider and just buy two matched type 200W panels and put those in series or maybe parallel
and end up with a little more capacity and mounting convenience and easier time using them together.
So yeah you can store that in a battery to use it later / over time.
You can power stuff immediately with it while the sun shines.
But you're talking about several kilowatts of load and in the winter which is the worst time of year for solar power because you'll get less sunlight power on average for a given day / month in winter than in summer for a given location, particularly locations well away from the equator in latitude.
Here's a solar energy atlas / map showing the approximate ideal average expected solar energy available (Watt hours per day per square meter of solar panel area) in a location you pick in a month of the year you pick:
https://maps.nrel.gov/re-atlas/?a...78125&zL=4
You're going to have to decide how many hours a day you're running your lighting, and know how many kilowatts of lighting power are needed on average over the course of the day / night etc.
Since it's only going to be sunny for a few hours a day on average particularly in the winter you'd have to calculate that your solar panels are going to generate some amount of total energy (see the link) over those hours of day light in a winter month. That total energy has to be enough for your purposes to power your stuff maybe not just immediately when the sun is shining but maybe you also want the lights to work at night or on very cloudy / snowy days when the solar panels produce less or no power, so if that's the case you'll want enough excess energy to be stored during the light hours of a day to store in batteries to power your stuff you want to be powered even at night or on dark stormy days with less solar power coming in, etc.
So typically if someone wanted to *continually* provide say 1kW of load power 24/7/365 day and night then they'd probably install something like 5kW of solar panels so that they'd generate a lot of excess power during the sunlit hours
and store that excess in batteries so that the power is available at night also and some excess as well to account for dimmer winter days.
And that's for a 1kW 24 hour/day load. If you want several times that then you're going to need several times that much PV power and that's not a small PV system, that's like a typical "cover your roof" sized PV system and more size.
For that scale of a system these panels are not appropriately sized / cost effective, and you should look at several times larger panels and buy / install them by the palette load.
On the other hand if your solar lighting needs are only for daylight hours to mimic the natural light rhythms of the day then that could save a lot on battery storage / energy conversion since you'd just be using solar power mostly when solar power is actually available.
You didn't say if you're happy to have a PV system supplementing grid based power in which case you could install a much smaller PV system to generate a fraction of your needed lighting power, with any of the power needed beyond that (at night, stormy days, higher load power than solar power, ...) coming from the AC mains grid. In that case there's no hard and fast rule about how much PV you could / should install, it's up to you, the more the better.
In suitable locations (latitude, climate, available land / roof area) PV systems typically end up being long term cheaper
than AC grid utility power and pay for themselves after N years, so from that stand point the more solar you install
the better for you etc. over time.
You could also design a large scale system which is grid tied in which case you could maybe (local regulations apply) sell back the excess solar power you generate to the grid for some more profit besides reducing your own power use and therefore electricity bill.
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power bank unit or something which has an external 12-24VDC charging input connection that can be wired right to solar panels.
Then you could have the panels charge the power bank / converter and the power bank / converter (sold separately) would provide the USB charging ports.
Someone may make a solar panel to USB-charging converter unit that doesn't even include a battery, I suppose they exist, it makes sense as a possible use case, but I don't personally know of any never having checked.
But to answer your question yeah these are JUST solar panels with MC4 connectors and they'll put out something
like 12V-24V when the sun shines at 0-14A or something approximately in that range of available current.
The connectors won't connect to USB-5V or USB-C 5/9/12/15/20V regulated outputs without an external
regulator and USB port controller that provides the right connector and in the case of USB Type C handles the power handshaking protocol.
So this may not be what you want though in theory they should be usable as a piece to get there maybe with what might be a small additional bit of cabling / conversion equipment if you don't need batteries too.