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expiredLedynnek posted Jul 7, 2020 4:28 AM
Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer
$1,200
$1,340
10% off
+ Free Shippingat Monoprice
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Monoprice.com has Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer on sale for $1,199.99. Shipping is free. Thanks Ledynnek
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Editor's Notes
Written by StrawMan86 | StaffTHX Certified Ultra products are for large sized rooms, up to 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen. -StrawMan86
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Monoprice.com has Monoprice Monolith 15" THX Ultra Certified Ported 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer on sale for $1,199.99. Shipping is free. Thanks Ledynnek
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Note: Subwoofer is outfitted with three ports that can utilize foam plugs to run in a sealed mode.
Editor's Notes
Written by StrawMan86 | StaffTHX Certified Ultra products are for large sized rooms, up to 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen. -StrawMan86
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What is more of a question is if you don't care about high end audio, why are you in a thread for it?
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164 Comments
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Saying adding a 2nd sub "will add 6dB of SPL headroom (will play louder)" and that it "will not improve the sound unless" then you agree with me and say " Agreed, many confuse louder as better"
Then a 2nd sub would yield better "sound quality" because it "will help with smoothing out the frequency response over a wider listening area." Then you say "Adding a second sub will not yield wider, smoother dispersion"
Anyways I think we're we differ is how we define "sound quality".
For me improving sound quality would be better accuracy,detail,articulation, going lower.
A 2nd sub doesn't add any of that, it just spreads(dispersion) that frequency over a wider listening area(smooths out).
The great thing is this is all subjective so there is no universal right or wrong here.
It appears that we both define SQ similarly. Simply adding a second sub in the situation I mentioned above will not improve SQ. It must be integrated properly so that the resultant frequency response is actually improved. That is where the true SQ comes from. Not from simply adding SPL headroom.
Dispersion and frequency response are not the same thing. Dispersion is how wide of an angle the speaker can transmit the sound before the sound is no longer the same as sitting directly in front of it. You will see dispersion measurements for speakers, but not for subwoofers. The frequencies coming out of subwoofers are omni-directional. There is no dispersion patterns for those frequencies.
Sound quality from a technical standpoint (measurements) are not subjective. How we perceive them, however, is. So we can measure the output of speakers and subs and definitely say which is the better measurements, we cannot say what is better to each individual listener.
Most people will prefer what measures better once they have grown accustomed to it. What I mean by that is if we had a person who loved boomy, sloppy bass and let him listen to a properly set up system, he may not like it as first because the bass may not be as pronounced. Give him a few weeks to get accustomed to it and he will, more likely than not, not want to go back to the boomy, sloppy bass he had before.
Don't confuse louder for better SQ. Louder is just louder and that's just a preference. It may sound better to someone, but there is a difference between measurable SQ improvements vs. it's louder therefore it sounds better to me.
Can anyone give me an opinion of this vs the deal? And yes I know my suggestion is 400 W, 12" but comes only at less than a quarter price of this and definitely in my opinion with a better brand name.
What will miss with this one? I tried it at Wearhouse and my bones did feel the sound adequately well that I am convinced it should serve me well and surely creates more enemies among my neighbors.
https://www.costco.com/klipsch-r-...26745.html
This is for serious home theater, and BIG rooms, upwards of 5000 cubic feet. I have the Monolith 12" ported for a 3100 cubic foot room, and it does well, still wish I had a second one though....
Bose and home theater don't at all go together, even in the 90's it was a stretch. Just sayin'
When you are watching a movie, you want to be make the experience as real as possible so that you are drawn into what's happening on the screen. A good audio setup will do that. In action movies having a capable sub will not only allow you to hear, but feel the impact of punches, gunshots, explosions, etc. In horror movies, sub frequencies are used quite often to add suspense.
Can anyone give me an opinion of this vs the deal? And yes I know my suggestion is 400 W, 12" but comes only at less than a quarter price of this and definitely in my opinion with a better brand name.
What will miss with this one? I tried it at Wearhouse and my bones did feel the sound adequately well that I am convinced it should serve me well and surely creates more enemies among my neighbors.
https://www.costco.com/klipsch-r-...26745.html
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It appears that we both define SQ similarly. Simply adding a second sub in the situation I mentioned above will not improve SQ. It must be integrated properly so that the resultant frequency response is actually improved. That is where the true SQ comes from. Not from simply adding SPL headroom.
Dispersion and frequency response are not the same thing. Dispersion is how wide of an angle the speaker can transmit the sound before the sound is no longer the same as sitting directly in front of it. You will see dispersion measurements for speakers, but not for subwoofers. The frequencies coming out of subwoofers are omni-directional. There is no dispersion patterns for those frequencies.
Sound quality from a technical standpoint (measurements) are not subjective. How we perceive them, however, is. So we can measure the output of speakers and subs and definitely say which is the better measurements, we cannot say what is better to each individual listener.
Most people will prefer what measures better once they have grown accustomed to it. What I mean by that is if we had a person who loved boomy, sloppy bass and let him listen to a properly set up system, he may not like it as first because the bass may not be as pronounced. Give him a few weeks to get accustomed to it and he will, more likely than not, not want to go back to the boomy, sloppy bass he had before.
I never stated output is not important to HT. I merely stated adding a 2nd sub, placed in such a manner that they are in perfect phase with each other (as in next to each other) will do nothing to improve SQ unless the first sub was already playing at its limit. All adding a 2nd sub will do is increase SPL headroom by 6dB if they are identical subs. So if you're saying 1 sub was insufficient to fill a room then yes, adding a 2nd sub will increase SQ since most likely, the 1st is clipping if you were trying to fill too big a room.
Don't confuse louder for better SQ. Louder is just louder and that's just a preference. It may sound better to someone, but there is a difference between measurable SQ improvements vs. it's louder therefore it sounds better to me.
We still don't define SQ similarly because you said "resultant frequency response is actually improved. That is where the true SQ comes from".
For me as I stated better SQ is improving "better accuracy,detail,articulation", going lower", two different things.
We will have to agree to disagree on the frequency vs dispersion. My point was, in layman's terms the sub's sweet spot sound is dispersed to wider area(made larger) by adding a 2nd sub, it does not improve the sound.
My problem with "technical standpoint (measurements)" is you say "definitely say which is the better measurements". Better based on who's standard? If it's based on some "measurements" that means you should actually be able to make a list of speakers from great to bad based on these "measurements".
When that argument is made I will sometimes ask for this list and of course it's in sarcasm because no one has taken the time to do it.
The main reason as you and I know is because, how did you put it "How we perceive them, however, is"
I get some people just need to see physical proof there speakers are "better", believe me I use to drink that water also.
I saw the light long ago from a salesman, turned good friend, who is no longer with us(RIP) who got me to understand that those "measurements" is 1 of 1000 other things that going into finding out what sounds good to each of us.
He got me to understand that sound is about the easiest thing to justify.
Ive been doing this for many years and TBH I have listened to many speakers that "measure" well and thought meh and some that didn't(as well) and I thought wow that's pretty good.
Even the people that go by these measurements do the same, they just justify away the reasons why that happened. If they say they don't they are lying, remember I drank that water also.
You point this out perfectly when you said "Most people will prefer what measures better once they have grown accustomed to it". You see that train of thought(influence) in here(and everywhere) all the time.
If you keep "reading" or told in colorful/convincing words something is better, does it make it true?
The problem with your analogy it's based on "measurements" again. Throw in the other 999 subjective points, now is it better?
There is always something better to all of us, does that mean "ignorance is bliss" to all of us also?
Even when you read all those "measurements",specs, colorful opinions they almost always end with that you ultimately have to listen for yourself!
IMO all we do by reading is influence ourselves into believing what we want to or what someone is telling us is "better"
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See how the two statements are different when I omit the "unless" part?
Please state the part of my full statement that is not a fact. Adding a second identical sub placed next to the first will do nothing to SQ unless (<-- that is a key part) the first sub was already playing at its limit and was clipping. It will only provide +6dB of SPL headroom. That is fact and science. There is nothing that cannot be proven or debated about in that statement. Does a sub with 2 drivers sound better than a sub with a single driver at the same volume? Of course not. Why? Because science (that can be proven with measurements) tells us that two subs in the same place will only play louder than one sub regardless if they are in a single enclosure or two separate enclosures.
Improvements to SQ by adding a 2nd sub will only happen with proper placement of the second sub in such a manner that it provide a smoother frequency response at the listening positions. And how would you know if the second sub is doing that? You guessed it, through measurements.
For me as I stated better SQ is improving "better accuracy,detail,articulation", going lower", two different things.
What you are talking about is improving the frequency response to a larger area. In a speaker (non-subwoofer), the dispersion pattern will determine how big of a sweet spot you will have. Narrow dispersion patterns will have smaller sweet spots opposed to a speaker with a larger dispersion pattern. This measurement (there's that darned word again) is sometime provided by the speaker manufacturer or speaker review sites. This measurement is not provided for subs because sub frequencies are omni-directional. There is no dispersion pattern. With subwoofers, the major determining factor of frequency response would be the room and the placement of the sub in the room.
If you wish to continue using the term dispersion to describe subwoofer frequency response over a given area then I will accommodate you and use that term as well in quotes.
When that argument is made I will sometimes ask for this list and of course it's in sarcasm because no one has taken the time to do it.
The main reason as you and I know is because, how did you put it "How we perceive them, however, is"
I get some people just need to see physical proof there speakers are "better", believe me I use to drink that water also.
I saw the light long ago from a salesman, turned good friend, who is no longer with us(RIP) who got me to understand that those "measurements" is 1 of 1000 other things that going into finding out what sounds good to each of us.
He got me to understand that sound is about the easiest thing to justify.
Ive been doing this for many years and TBH I have listened to many speakers that "measure" well and thought meh and some that didn't(as well) and I thought wow that's pretty good.
Even the people that go by these measurements do the same, they just justify away the reasons why that happened. If they say they don't they are lying, remember I drank that water also.
What do I base that standard on? I base it on the standard that most manufacturers and eminent people in the audio industry seem to agree on. That is, a smooth frequency response is more desirable than a frequency response that looks like a jagged mountain range. Is frequency response and other measurements the end all and be all? Of course not. I never claimed it was. I only stated that measurements are important and can tell you if what you are doing to your system is helping or not. Without measurements, you're just taking shots in the dark.
If you keep "reading" or told in colorful/convincing words something is better, does it make it true?
The problem with your analogy it's based on "measurements" again. Throw in the other 999 subjective points, now is it better?
Why do you think people who care about sound and video quality pay thousands of dollars for professionals to calibrate their audio and video systems? What do you think these calibrators do? Guess what? They bring in measuring equipment to calibrate the system to an industry accepted standard. If this wasn't adding benefits then these hack professionals would be out of business sooner rather than later.
Maybe you hear that here and everywhere else all the time is perhaps it might be true? Not everything is a conspiracy to make people think the same. People can choose to try it and go back to whatever it is they had before if that's their preference.
I'm not here to force people to do anything. I just prefer to educate people on how to get the most out of their investment or make an educated decision. I'm sure that is the same as your intention. We both provide our arguments and let the readers decide whose advice they wish to follow.
We still don't define SQ similarly because you said "resultant frequency response is actually improved. That is where the true SQ comes from".
For me as I stated better SQ is improving "better accuracy,detail,articulation", going lower", two different things.
We will have to agree to disagree on the frequency vs dispersion. My point was, in layman's terms the sub's sweet spot sound is dispersed to wider area(made larger) by adding a 2nd sub, it does not improve the sound.
My problem with "technical standpoint (measurements)" is you say "definitely say which is the better measurements". Better based on who's standard? If it's based on some "measurements" that means you should actually be able to make a list of speakers from great to bad based on these "measurements".
When that argument is made I will sometimes ask for this list and of course it's in sarcasm because no one has taken the time to do it.
The main reason as you and I know is because, how did you put it "How we perceive them, however, is"
I get some people just need to see physical proof there speakers are "better", believe me I use to drink that water also.
I saw the light long ago from a salesman, turned good friend, who is no longer with us(RIP) who got me to understand that those "measurements" is 1 of 1000 other things that going into finding out what sounds good to each of us.
He got me to understand that sound is about the easiest thing to justify.
Ive been doing this for many years and TBH I have listened to many speakers that "measure" well and thought meh and some that didn't(as well) and I thought wow that's pretty good.
Even the people that go by these measurements do the same, they just justify away the reasons why that happened. If they say they don't they are lying, remember I drank that water also.
You point this out perfectly when you said "Most people will prefer what measures better once they have grown accustomed to it". You see that train of thought(influence) in here(and everywhere) all the time.
If you keep "reading" or told in colorful/convincing words something is better, does it make it true?
The problem with your analogy it's based on "measurements" again. Throw in the other 999 subjective points, now is it better?
There is always something better to all of us, does that mean "ignorance is bliss" to all of us also?
Even when you read all those "measurements",specs, colorful opinions they almost always end with that you ultimately have to listen for yourself!
IMO all we do by reading is influence ourselves into believing what we want to or what someone is telling us is "better"
I have a 2000 cu ft room with a monolith 12" sub. Do you think adding this 15" or replacing the 12" with this 15" will make a considerable/noticeable difference in sound quality(not output level). The 12" is already able to pressurize the room well enough while using for HT/music(I had returned a PB2K for this 12 inch as I liked the M12 better). Would love to get your thoughts
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