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Lenovo IdeaCentre 5 Desktop: Ryzen 3 4300G, 8GB DDR4, VEGA 6 Graphics, 128GB PCIe SSD, 1TB HDD, Win10H @ $404.99 + F/S

$404.99
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LINK: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/desk...90Q20001US

COUPON: TOWEREXTRA10

SPEC:
  • Windows 10 Home 64 Bit
  • Ryzen 3 4300G 3.8 GHz (4C/8T, 4 GHz Turbo, 6MB Cache)
  • 8GB DDR4 (4GBx2) DDR4 3200 MHz Ram
  • AMD VEGA 6 Integrated Graphics (1700 MHz)
  • 128GB PCIe NVMe SSD + 1TB 7200 RPM HDD
  • DVD-RW
  • USB Keyboard & Mouse Combo
  • 802.11AC (2 x 2) + Bluetooth® 5.0
  • Front Ports:
    • 1x USB 3.1 Type-C
    • 2x USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A
    • 3-in-1 card reader
    • 1x Headphone / mic combo
  • Rear Ports:
    • 4x USB 2.0
    • Audio-out
    • 1x HDMI 1.4b
    • 1x VGA
    • 1x RJ45 Gigabit Ethernet
  • 260W PSU
  • 11.9 lbs / 5.4 kg
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Created 11-05-2020 at 09:07 AM by Suryasis
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#2
Assuming the smaller SSD is not an issue, this one or the Ryzen 7 4700G with Vega 8 is the better value?
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#3
Quote from poohbie
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Assuming the smaller SSD is not an issue, this one or the Ryzen 7 4700G with Vega 8 is the better value?
This is a better value in my opinion. While the Ryzen 7 4700G with VEGA 8 is definitely more powerful than this one, VEGA 8 Graphics is still not enough to play any modern AAA titles at 1080P with high settings and you need to invest in a GPU. If you consider that price, there are better value laptops available. For example HP Envy Gaming comes at $600 with Ryzen 5 4600G and GTX 1650 SUPER. The Office Depot one comes with Ryzen 7 3700X which is more powerful and a AMD RX 550 at $580.
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#4
Quote from poohbie
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Assuming the smaller SSD is not an issue, this one or the Ryzen 7 4700G with Vega 8 is the better value?
The 4700G config is absolutely the better value. For $135 more, you move two steps up in CPU performance, double the memory and the SSD drive. This gives you an i7 level of performance with the best integrated GPU available as well.
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#5
Quote from deelseaker
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The 4700G config is absolutely the better value. For $135 more, you move two steps up in CPU performance, double the memory and the SSD drive. This gives you an i7 level of performance with the best integrated GPU available as well.
That was not the point I mentioned. Obviously, if you go with Ryzen 7 4700G, you will get far better performance. But when you are in a $550-$600 territory, you need to check what are the other options available at that range, not just comparing it with a $404 Desktop. You will have Office Depots' HP Envy Desktop with Ryzen 7 3700X + RX 560 2GB Graphics at $580 and that has better CPU and GPU performance than this one. The PSU is slightly better (310W Gold) which will allow to put cards like GTX 1660 Ti without any issue. This Lenovo Laptop is a SFF form factor and comes with a 260W PSU. So, upgrading to any dedicated graphics card will be problematic and chances are you won't be able fit any big GPU inside it.
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#6
Quote from Suryasis
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That was not the point I mentioned. Obviously, if you go with Ryzen 7 4700G, you will get far better performance. But when you are in a $550-$600 territory, you need to check what are the other options available at that range, not just comparing it with a $404 Desktop. You will have Office Depots' HP Envy Desktop with Ryzen 7 3700X + RX 560 2GB Graphics at $580 and that has better CPU and GPU performance than this one. The PSU is slightly better (310W Gold) which will allow to put cards like GTX 1660 Ti without any issue. This Lenovo Laptop is a SFF form factor and comes with a 260W PSU. So, upgrading to any dedicated graphics card will be problematic and chances are you won't be able fit any big GPU inside it.
The HP system is definitely a better deal than the 4700g version of this system. The Lenovo box has a 180 Watt power supply and is basically a dead end. It's upgraded as far as you can, the bios is not likely to allow anything past the 4700g and you can't add a GPU.
You could probably bump the HP to the 1650, maybe the super or one of the new generation low end GPUs coming out soon.

The only reason I would buy the 4700g system is because you can't buy the chip from a computer shop and I would like to see how it performs.
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Last edited by softwareEngineering November 6, 2020 at 12:32 AM.
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#7
Quote from softwareEngineering
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The HP system is definitely a better deal than the 4700g version of this system. The Lenovo box has a 180 Watt power supply and is basically a dead end. It's upgraded as far as you can, the bios is not likely to allow anything past the 4700g and you can't add a GPU.
You could probably bump the HP to the 1650, maybe the super or one of the new generation low end GPUs coming out soon.

The only reason I would buy the 4700g system is because you can't buy the chip from a computer shop and I would like to see how it performs.
It performs slower than 3700X because of two things:-
It has 8MB L3 cache vs 32MB in 3700X.
The 65W TDP is shared between the powerful integrated GPU and the processor. Even if you add a dedicated graphics card, the iGPU still consumes some power.
This lacks PCIe Gen 4 support.
As you mentioned, apart from pure testing, no point of buying a very powerful 8 core cpu in a desktop where you can't do any upgrade. Say, if you're a content creator, even a basic dedicated graphics card like GTX 1650 ti can improve editing or rendering performance significantly when paired with such a powerful cpu but the Lenovo desktop simply won't allow you do that.
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#8
Quote from Suryasis
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That was not the point I mentioned. Obviously, if you go with Ryzen 7 4700G, you will get far better performance.
Hi, and thank you for your input. I replied directly to a user's question about a specific configuration. He asked if it was a better value. It is. Apparently, you are not disagreeing with this fact either.
Quote from Suryasis
:
But when you are in a $550-$600 territory, you need to check what are the other options available at that range, not just comparing it with a $404 Desktop.
I wasn't in the $550-$600 territory. Neither was the person who asked the question.
Quote from Suryasis
:
You will have Office Depots' HP Envy Desktop with Ryzen 7 3700X + RX 560 2GB Graphics at $580
I don't see an "Office Depots' HP Envy Desktop with Ryzen 7 3700X + RX 560 2GB Graphics at $580". Do you have a link? What are the rest of the specs?
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#9
Quote from deelseaker
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Hi, and thank you for your input. I replied directly to a user's question about a specific configuration. He asked if it was a better value. It is. Apparently, you are not disagreeing with this fact either.
I wasn't in the $550-$600 territory. Neither was the person who asked the question.
I don't see an "Office Depots' HP Envy Desktop with Ryzen 7 3700X + RX 560 2GB Graphics at $580". Do you have a link? What are the rest of the specs?
It is HP Pavilion TP01-0066 Desktop PC, AMD Ryzen™ 7, 8GB Memory, 256GB Solid State Drive, Windows® 10 ... [officedepot.com]
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#10
I don't see an RX 560 there, only an RX 550. That's why I asked.
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#11
Quote from deelseaker
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I don't see an RX 560 there, only an RX 550. That's why I asked.
That was a typo from my end. But even RX 550 is still marginally better and 3700X is a overall better processor and has better features like PCIe Gen 4 support, 4 times the cache size. Most importantly, the HP chassis and the 315W power supply give that deal nice upgrade options which is simply not possible in the Lenovo deal having a very constrained chassis and 200W power supply.
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#12
Quote from Suryasis
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That was a typo from my end. But even RX 550 is still marginally better and 3700X is a overall better processor
Just to make sure you are not making a typo or misspeaking again, do you have a link confirming that the above CPU and GPU are indeed better than the 4700G?

Even if they are (which is yet to be seen), your suggested configuration has 8GB less RAM than the 4700G one and lacks the 1TB hard drive. It also costs about $50 more after tax. So, the suggested (yet unproven) performance gains need to overcome these drawbacks to demostrate a better value.
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#13
Quote from deelseaker
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Just to make sure you are not making a typo or misspeaking again, do you have a link confirming that the above CPU and GPU are indeed better than the 4700G?

Even if they are (which is yet to be seen), your suggested configuration has 8GB less RAM than the 4700G one and lacks the 1TB hard drive. It also costs about $50 more after tax. So, the suggested (yet unproven) performance gains need to overcome these drawbacks to demostrate a better value.
There are plenty of reviews available which you can see and it is a very well known fact, not sure why you are not aware of it. Tom's Hardware did the review of Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G which is exactly same as 4700G with Business and security specific features enabled. May be the below review can enlighten your technical understanding about the two processors. In Gaming, even a highly overclocked 4750G can't match the stock gaming performance of 3700X and any person with a basic tech knowledge will understand that. 3700X and 4700G uses exact same technology but 4700G is a stripped down version in Processor end with integrated Graphics added. It has a 8MB L3 Cache whereas 3700X has 32MB L3 Cache, which is 4 times higher.
https://www.tomshardware.com/revi...DIY%27ers.

And Below is the comparison of VEGA 8 and VEGA 7 of Ryzen 4000 series vs RX 550 Laptop version which is actually slower than the Desktop version and still beats both the Integrated Graphics. Check it out. Let me tell you one thing; Integrated Graphics, no matter how powerful they are, even a very moderate Graphics card which is even couple of years old, can beat them easily, Those IGP normally shows very promising results in the synthetic benchmarks like CineBench but in most real world gaming, they perform poorer because of lack of dedicated and faster memory.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Veg...598.0.html

Another thing I want to point here is not about the raw performance of these computers. IdeaCentre 5 Desktops are Slim and compact PCs designed for daily home usage, not for power users. Now 4300G or 4600G will be fine for that. However, when a person is looking for a 8 Core CPU, obviously the target is not just using it as a basic Desktop home PC but running demanding tasks and most of those tasks like Rendering, Video editing etc., can benefit from a dedicated Graphics card, even a lower-mid range card like GTX 1650. The problem with this IdeaCentre 5 is that you may get higher Ram and Processor but future upgrade capacities are extremely limited due to the small Chassis and inadequate and propriety Power supply. Only small sized and single slot card will fit and even that is extremely restricted by the PSU. That basically hinders the advantage of having a Desktop computer in the first place, which can be upgraded with time.
HP Envy, on the other hand, has a better design for future upgrades. The chassis, while small, still has enough space for accommodate mid-sized cards, and the Gold standard 310W PSU will allow cards like GTX 1660 Ti with ease.
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Last edited by Suryasis November 6, 2020 at 10:53 PM.
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#14
Quote from Suryasis
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There are plenty of reviews available which you can see and it is a very well known fact, not sure why you are not aware of it. Tom's Hardware did the review of Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G which is exactly same as 4700G with Business and security specific features enabled. May be the below review can enlighten your technical understanding about the two processors. In Gaming, even a highly overclocked 4750G can't match the stock gaming performance of 3700X and any person with a basic tech knowledge will understand that. 3700X and 4700G uses exact same technology but 4700G is a stripped down version in Processor end with integrated Graphics added. It has a 8MB L3 Cache whereas 3700X has 32MB L3 Cache, which is 4 times higher.
https://www.tomshardware.com/revi...DIY%27ers.

And Below is the comparison of VEGA 8 and VEGA 7 of Ryzen 4000 series vs RX 550 Laptop version which is actually slower than the Desktop version and still beats both the Integrated Graphics. Check it out. Let me tell you one thing; Integrated Graphics, no matter how powerful they are, even a very moderate Graphics card which is even couple of years old, can beat them easily, Those IGP normally shows very promising results in the synthetic benchmarks like CineBench but in most real world gaming, they perform poorer because of lack of dedicated and faster memory.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Veg...598.0.html

Another thing I want to point here is not about the raw performance of these computers. IdeaCentre 5 Desktops are Slim and compact PCs designed for daily home usage, not for power users. Now 4300G or 4600G will be fine for that. However, when a person is looking for a 8 Core CPU, obviously the target is not just using it as a basic Desktop home PC but running demanding tasks and most of those tasks like Rendering, Video editing etc., can benefit from a dedicated Graphics card, even a lower-mid range card like GTX 1650. The problem with this IdeaCentre 5 is that you may get higher Ram and Processor but future upgrade capacities are extremely limited due to the small Chassis and inadequate and propriety Power supply. Only small sized and single slot card will fit and even that is extremely restricted by the PSU. That basically hinders the advantage of having a Desktop computer in the first place, which can be upgraded with time.
HP Envy, on the other hand, has a better design for future upgrades. The chassis, while small, still has enough space for accommodate mid-sized cards, and the Gold standard 310W PSU will allow cards like GTX 1660 Ti with ease.
Thank you for "enlightening" me. I don't see such clear advantage of 3700X over 4700G as you'd like to portray. In fact, they trade blows in various benchmarks and are pretty close in most. Which was exactly my point: There is no clear performance advantage of the 3700X, especially in a configuration with 8GB less memory and a higher price. And presenting a comparison of laptop graphics in your second link as a proof of such in the desktop world is very strange.

Anyway, none of your arguments change my opinion that the 4700G config the user above asked about is a better value the 4300G config in your OP. Whether a completely unrelated and a more expensive configuration you posted elsewhere is a better value is an entirely different question. Given the evidence you presented, it is not. But I'll let others judge for themselves.
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#15
Quote from deelseaker
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Thank you for "enlightening" me. I don't see such clear advantage of 3700X over 4700G as you'd like to portray. In fact, they trade blows in various benchmarks and are pretty close in most. Which was exactly my point: There is no clear performance advantage of the 3700X, especially in a configuration with 8GB less memory and a higher price. And presenting a comparison of laptop graphics in your second link as a proof of such in the desktop world is very strange.

Anyway, none of your arguments change my opinion that the 4700G config the user above asked about is a better value the 4300G config in your OP. Whether a completely unrelated and a more expensive configuration you posted elsewhere is a better value is an entirely different question. Given the evidence you presented, it is not. But I'll let others judge for themselves.
I think you got me wrong about the Laptop Graphics. What I said is that the comparison is used the Laptop version of RX 550 which is normally slower than their Desktop counterparts due to lower TDP values and GPU and Memory clock. If you bring a Desktop RX 550 in Table, the performance difference will be much higher in favor or RX 550.

And regarding the performance difference between Ryzen 7 3700X and Ryzen 7 4750G Pro / 4700G, if you don't want to see the difference, nobody can make you. From the Gaming benchmark with a dedicated GPU, the average score of 3700X at stock is 123 whereas stock 4750G has 110 and even a overclocked 4750G at 4.45 GHz (which requires high end cooler) is still 116, lesser than 3700X.

But let's other read our posts and decide by themselves based on that.
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