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ticking time bomb for cryptos

1,675 437 January 16, 2021 at 09:57 AM
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Last Edited by Kouskous44 January 18, 2021 at 08:19 AM
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Thoughts on this article?

I understand a lot of pro-crypto have their biases especially due to their exposures. however having experienced the housing crisis/gfc in 2007, I understand the unwinding of CDOs, CMOs, synthetics, etc. and when the liquidity dried up. The only reason the global economy didn't collapse was due to Central banks stepping in and injecting/providing liquidity. I wonder if this would happen for decentralized cryptos and have my doubts.

A lot of noise is being made about bitcoin running up to 100k+, but I think everyone thinks its a party until the music stops and exchanges run out of fiat or become insolvent with the demise of tether. I never realized the float was that large and think this is a huge black swan event.

I don't think its a crypto "killer" and see value in blockchain tech, but the collapse can cause a massive price shock and am concerned for those that are levered using money out of their retirement accounts or taking loans against their homes. Sure there is a possibility it may go on for a few more days or even years, and people in the ecosystem may say ill pull the money out before.... many said the same with other investments also before other collapses and were not able to do so.

Crashes happen when people least expect it.

https://crypto-anonymous-2021.med...dcf78a64d3
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jcrash
01-16-2021 at 11:04 AM.
01-16-2021 at 11:04 AM.
Tether is a known.

I actually wrote an article about it in 2018.

Worst case, when you buy the money is flushed down the toilet (or transfer it to some 3rd party we cannot reach) . I don't think that is likely, as they have to manage the day to day fluctuations and to do that, they need funds.

So, next worse case, they flush some of it.. Doesn't seem likely, but, in essence this is the actual worst case since we know they don't do the first one. In this case, if a lot of people redeemed at once, they would run out of cash, and tether would crash. That's bad. No one is sure how bad, but given the ups and downs of bitcoin, I think it would have happened by now.

So, next worse case, they are putting part of the fiat into investments. Well, that's basically how banks work. It's called fractional reserve banking and if that's bad, the whole system is already screwed. In the event their investments went south, they MIGHT be a problem. I say might because investments make money. We have no idea how much money they've made. It might be a LOT. For example, assume they buy bitcoin sometime any day before now, they've made 100% or more on that.

So, final possibility, they are putting ALL the money in bitcoin. I don't think that's a real possibility.

Remember, what I would largely consider to be the smartest people on the planet are supporting and adopting crypto. These are largely visionaries. Yep, Elon has not, yet, but he also thought covid wasn't a big deal, so I think his intellect has some gaps.

In short, no, not a problem. This round is likely FUD put out to let institutions in a little more. They are well known for this and they are coming with huge amounts of money.

In short, I'm pretty much all in on crypto. Feel free to join me at r/yolocrypto.
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Kouskous44
01-16-2021 at 01:54 PM.
01-16-2021 at 01:54 PM.
Quote from jcrash :
Tether is a known.

I actually wrote an article about it in 2018.

Worst case, when you buy the money is flushed down the toilet (or transfer it to some 3rd party we cannot reach) . I don't think that is likely, as they have to manage the day to day fluctuations and to do that, they need funds.

So, next worse case, they flush some of it.. Doesn't seem likely, but, in essence this is the actual worst case since we know they don't do the first one. In this case, if a lot of people redeemed at once, they would run out of cash, and tether would crash. That's bad. No one is sure how bad, but given the ups and downs of bitcoin, I think it would have happened by now.

So, next worse case, they are putting part of the fiat into investments. Well, that's basically how banks work. It's called fractional reserve banking and if that's bad, the whole system is already screwed. In the event their investments went south, they MIGHT be a problem. I say might because investments make money. We have no idea how much money they've made. It might be a LOT. For example, assume they buy bitcoin sometime any day before now, they've made 100% or more on that.

So, final possibility, they are putting ALL the money in bitcoin. I don't think that's a real possibility.

Remember, what I would largely consider to be the smartest people on the planet are supporting and adopting crypto. These are largely visionaries. Yep, Elon has not, yet, but he also thought covid wasn't a big deal, so I think his intellect has some gaps.

In short, no, not a problem. This round is likely FUD put out to let institutions in a little more. They are well known for this and they are coming with huge amounts of money.

In short, I'm pretty much all in on crypto. Feel free to join me at r/yolocrypto.

Back in the 90s and 00s, many knew that the mortgage bundled instruments and ARMs were a looming issue, but for many years most sophisticated investors (very well known on Wall Street and the smartest of the smart) still thought everything was fine and dandy.

The challenge is that many of the views you hear from experts have their exposure and biases outside of a few. Many of these experts also build up their livelihood around btc, majors, and alts. You mentioned you were all in cryptos, so your comments do have a bias that needs a honest reflection. We all have our biases based on our exposures and beliefs.

I was very pro crypto since 2016 and had a higher than normal risk budget in my allocation to cryptos, with a view it could moon, and like you put the tether issue away thinking its a non issue at first, until I realized how large the size was and how much it propped up btc prices. Its a known when tether is issued, prices jump. The question is is there really dollar for dollar to back it up? I think most know the answer is no. If so the huge issue is everything seems fine until the liquidity dries up, and one day it will. Maybe not now, or for days/years, but it will. this black swan event could cause you not to be able sell at current market value or even pull your money out in certain cases.

There are more tethers than fiat in the ecosystem. May not seem so now, but when there is a run on the money, you may not be able to get your capital out compounded with the devaluation of your crypto holdings.

Of course if you dont believe in fiat whatsoever then it doesn't matter. But I think most who invest look in fiat terms for the value they hold, as the current ability to purchase goods and services is mostly in fiat.

also I'm not saying there will be a complete collapse, given its decentralized nature. but certainly can crash prices 90%+ easily if there was a run on tether to fiat, given the float used and what is available on market.
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Last edited by Kouskous44 January 16, 2021 at 02:14 PM.
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jcrash
01-16-2021 at 05:03 PM.
01-16-2021 at 05:03 PM.
Quote from Kouskous44 :
Back in the 90s and 00s, many knew that the mortgage bundled instruments and ARMs were a looming issue, but for many years most sophisticated investors (very well known on Wall Street and the smartest of the smart) still thought everything was fine and dandy.

The challenge is that many of the views you hear from experts have their exposure and biases outside of a few. Many of these experts also build up their livelihood around btc, majors, and alts. You mentioned you were all in cryptos, so your comments do have a bias that needs a honest reflection. We all have our biases based on our exposures and beliefs.

I was very pro crypto since 2016 and had a higher than normal risk budget in my allocation to cryptos, with a view it could moon, and like you put the tether issue away thinking its a non issue at first, until I realized how large the size was and how much it propped up btc prices. Its a known when tether is issued, prices jump. The question is is there really dollar for dollar to back it up? I think most know the answer is no. If so the huge issue is everything seems fine until the liquidity dries up, and one day it will. Maybe not now, or for days/years, but it will. this black swan event could cause you not to be able sell at current market value or even pull your money out in certain cases.

There are more tethers than fiat in the ecosystem. May not seem so now, but when there is a run on the money, you may not be able to get your capital out compounded with the devaluation of your crypto holdings.

Of course if you dont believe in fiat whatsoever then it doesn't matter. But I think most who invest look in fiat terms for the value they hold, as the current ability to purchase goods and services is mostly in fiat.

also I'm not saying there will be a complete collapse, given its decentralized nature. but certainly can crash prices 90%+ easily if there was a run on tether to fiat, given the float used and what is available on market.

"Thoughts on this article" Is typically exactly what you did here.. Simply used to spread more fud. As a percentage of crypto, how much is tether?

If you don't already know, you should and if you think it is anything close to the same as subprime, why don't you short MSTR?
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Kouskous44
01-16-2021 at 05:14 PM.
01-16-2021 at 05:14 PM.
Quote from jcrash :
"Thoughts on this article" Is typically exactly what you did here.. Simply used to spread more fud. As a percentage of crypto, how much is tether?

If you don't already know, you should and if you think it is anything close to the same as subprime, why don't you short MSTR?

I don't think you get it. Its not a percentage of the total crypto market value, but what is available for liquidity purposes i.e. float. Big difference.

You say its fud but what is your supporting arguments on what happens when there is a run to fiat? I'm open to any counterarguments and not against either way ( as I said I was pro crypto for many years) but to say its just fud without any supporting arguments is baseless.

Shorting mstr is a option but beyond my risk tolerance or time value. Short contracts have a decay value, and with the hype i don't have a idea how long this will run. If there are cracks in the ecosystem that starts showing, I guarantee that many hedge funds and opportunists will take that option - and why wouldn't they, its low hanging fruit to them.
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Last edited by Kouskous44 January 16, 2021 at 08:30 PM.
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jcrash
01-16-2021 at 05:29 PM.
01-16-2021 at 05:29 PM.
Quote from Kouskous44 :
I don't think you get it. Its not a percentage of the total crypto value, but what is available for liquidity purposes i.e. float. Big difference.

You say its fud but what is your supporting arguments on what happens when there is a run to fiat? I'm open to any counterarguments and not against either way ( as I said I was pro crypto for many years) but to say its just fud without any supporting arguments is baseless.

Shorting mstr is a option but beyond my risk tolerance or time value. Short contracts have a decay value, and with the hype i don't have a idea how long this will run. If there are cracks in the ecosystem that starts showing, I guarantee that many hedge funds and opportunists will take that option - and why wouldn't they, its low hanging fruit to them.

You really think all the world famous economists vc companies, Fidelity, insurance companies, pension funds, etc that are coming over to bitcoin are missing something that large when it is has been called out for three years? That's forever in crypto years.

I'm sure we are both smart. I'm also sure that they know much more than I do and they wouldn't be here or they thought the risk was that high. Regardless, long term, the tech is the future.. If the tech is the future then I gotta believe in bitcoin. No room for doubt, I'm all in.
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Kouskous44
01-16-2021 at 05:41 PM.
01-16-2021 at 05:41 PM.
Quote from jcrash :
You really think all the world famous economists vc companies, Fidelity, insurance companies, pension funds, etc that are coming over to bitcoin are missing something that large when it is has been called out for three years? That's forever in crypto years.

I'm sure we are both smart. I'm also sure that they know much more than I do and they wouldn't be here or they thought the risk was that high. Regardless, long term, the tech is the future.. If the tech is the future then I gotta believe in bitcoin. No room for doubt, I'm all in.

Yes. They have gotten it wrong many times before.

The US government has gotten it wrong many times before. How many bubbles and crashes have we had even in our own markets in our lifetimes (unless you are young and have not experienced a crash firsthand)?

Many asset management firms, insurance companies, and pensions have become insolvent because of a implosion of their holdings or bad ALM, esp pre global financial crisis. Dont take my word, do a quick Google search and you will see it happens all the time due to poor risk management/fat tail risk (e.g. LTCM) and this is why there is always more regulation. My other concern is the shadow market in cryptos, which includes derivatives, synthetic products (i.e. defi), all which is minimally regulated if any and has a massive crypto size multiplier effect. What do you think cause the global housing market crash? Eerily similar imo.

Recommend you read Nassim Taleb's book called "the black swan".

Your choice to go all in is your own risk tolerance, and to each their own and I respect your own decisions. However I personally don't agree ever going all in in any investment as it exposes you to idiosyncratic and systemic risks.

But ethically the right thing to do is let any investors/prospects in/considering crypto understand both sides so they can make an educated decision and not just a one sided view.

Ignoring this issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist or will go away, especially when you are "all in".

If by chance the article is right (and I can't refute it is improbable - and with growing probability it is true with the continued growth of unbacked tether), then some people are going to learn a very hard way unfortunately.
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Last edited by Kouskous44 January 16, 2021 at 08:33 PM.
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dukeblue219
01-20-2021 at 06:29 AM.
01-20-2021 at 06:29 AM.
Quote from jcrash :
You really think all the world famous economists vc companies, Fidelity, insurance companies, pension funds, etc that are coming over to bitcoin are missing something that large when it is has been called out for three years? That's forever in crypto years.
It's possible.

Everyone *knew* tech stocks with minimal revenue and huge losses were a bubble in 1999. Everyone *knew* housing was a bubble in 2005. You didn't have to be a genius, and countless articles and books were written on those subjects back then. The best banks, the best investors, and the best entrepreneurs put their money in both because they got caught up in the enthusiasm or felt this time was different. It wasn't.

I don't know what BTC will do. I really don't. But I sure wouldn't read into it much that big banks are playing with it too. The fact that "everyone" is in BTC right now might be that final red flag right before the pop, as is often the case. When the guy fixing your car offers advice on tech stocks and the unemployed are buying houses with no income documentation, that's the time to sell, not the time to be excited.
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Dr. J
01-20-2021 at 09:57 AM.
01-20-2021 at 09:57 AM.
What about when a real ETF option comes out and it becomes easier to trade?
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Kouskous44
01-21-2021 at 04:15 PM.
01-21-2021 at 04:15 PM.
Quote from Dr. J :
What about when a real ETF option comes out and it becomes easier to trade?

Etfs may help those limited to investment vehicle access to etfs vs direct vs. Etn's (.e.g. gbtc).

However if there is an ecosystem liquidity issue, then its a much bigger looming problem than accessibility, especially when there is a run to fiat.
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Last edited by Kouskous44 January 21, 2021 at 04:21 PM.
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handyguy
01-22-2021 at 08:42 AM.
01-22-2021 at 08:42 AM.
Double purchase of $21 was found. So Bitcoin is now shaken.
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alexatie
01-22-2021 at 09:53 AM.
01-22-2021 at 09:53 AM.
Quote from handyguy :
Double purchase of $21 was found. So Bitcoin is now shaken.
Fake news. Check again. Double spend did not and never happened on the Bitcoin network.
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jcrash
01-29-2021 at 05:48 AM.
01-29-2021 at 05:48 AM.
$60k in February.... HFSP
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Kouskous44
01-31-2021 at 08:55 AM.
01-31-2021 at 08:55 AM.
Quote from jcrash :
$60k in February.... HFSP

What is the rationales or such an estimate or are you just shilling for your own benefit since you are all in?

Also you never answered about the fat tail risk with tether.
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jcrash
01-31-2021 at 09:13 AM.
01-31-2021 at 09:13 AM.
Quote from Kouskous44 :
What is the rationales or such an estimate or are you just shilling for your own benefit since you are all in?

Also you never answered about the fat tail risk with tether.

The Michael Saylor conference is the second week of February. I think that's the next real leg. Plus, the WSB stuff just added a large number of subs to r/bitcoin.

Tether is literally Fud.
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