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expiredsr71 posted Jun 24, 2022 08:18 PM

QNAP TS-453D-4G 4-Bay Diskless NAS w/2.5GbE $439

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Model: QNAP TS-453D-4G 4 Bay NAS for Professionals with Intel® Celeron® J4125 CPU and Two 2.5GbE Ports

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Jun 24, 2022 10:27 PM
401 Posts
Joined May 2015
Jun 24, 2022 10:27 PM
Gadget13Jun 24, 2022 10:27 PM
401 Posts
Seems pricey to me. It could be upwards of $1,000 with 4 big drives.
4
Jun 27, 2022 01:58 AM
287 Posts
Joined Jul 2005
Jun 27, 2022 01:58 AM
nobody2000Jun 27, 2022 01:58 AM
287 Posts

Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank nobody2000

Quote from Gadget13 :
Seems pricey to me. It could be upwards of $1,000 with 4 big drives.
This price is about on par for this type of system. While you're not getting any drives, you're paying for a small form factor, low power consumption, and sadly, QNAP's QTS operating system which is not great.

Overall, if you're looking to get into running a server, be it for simple network attached storage, Plex streaming, hosting a number of services using docker, or whatever - it's a good starter device, provided you prioritize security.

Now - there's a risk of outgrowing this very quickly (like 1 year), but if you go this route, there are some things to know:
  • QTS sucks. It's bad. First thing you should do is make sure uPnP is disabled on your router and go ahead and disable it in QTS too.
  • Next, don't use the admin account (get rid of it if they still let you) and use a custom username with admin rights instead.
  • Next, disable/uninstall MyQNAPCloud. While the disabling of uPnP will solve all the insecure problems, this ensure it. QNAP, in order to make remote administration easy, by default opens a port on your router and on the qnap (if uPnP is enabled). Hackers have been able to easily bypass your login screen and run ransomware on the devices. Secure it to avoid this.
  • Finally, some other things to know:
    • The QNAP app store has most of the software you need, but you can snag containers from docker hub and install them in container station. If you're slightly more savvy, you'll install Portainer and do them all that way
    • 4 drives can fill up fast, even if you're silly and have them in RAID0/JBOD and only buy 18gb drives. Once you hit your 4, you have two options:
      • 1.) Get a USB expansion (QNAP TR-004 or similar)
      • 2.) Get a SAS expansion.
      • The first option is slow, and the second option is fast but expensive in a way that should have you considering just upgrading to a better system. Also - option 2 will eat up your PCI-e slot, so there goes any other potential expansions you might have wanted to do differently.
  • You can boot unRAID on this and it's 100x better. You can run it on a USB, and I think on this device, you can actually overwrite the boot storage (I can't remember what it's called).
  • I believe the specs say this maxes out at 8gb RAM. You CAN do 16gb, but in my own similar QNAP device, it's caused problems in QTS. In unRAID, all is nice and smooth.
  • Finally, if you do want to do remote administration, use openVPN or throw wireguard on the device and run your own VPN that you can just log into - it's fairly secure. You could also run a secure reverse proxy into a specific port for particular docker containers, but the VPN is more secure. 2-factor everything you can.

QNAP gets a lot of (deserved) hate, however if you perform just a handful of relatively easy steps, you can get a lot out of an affordable, low-power-consumption device. They also have decent resale value and likely will for 5 more years, so if you do upgrade, you can at least put a good chunk of the QNAP value toward that.
2
1
Jun 27, 2022 07:43 AM
1,753 Posts
Joined Aug 2011
Jun 27, 2022 07:43 AM
superstealsJun 27, 2022 07:43 AM
1,753 Posts
I have sworn off QNAP.
I have owned 2 separate QNAP - one a rack mount unit with 4 bay which was for business use and a TS431 for home use.
The rack mount unit (supposed to be business grade), died suddenly. I couldn't get it power on remotely. When I finally got it back to office I found it wouldn't even power on after trying a full reset. So seems like the mother board died. It was a complete disaster when a system that stores lot of data just dies without any early warning.

The home unit - similar story - one bay stopped working suddenly. It's ridiculous that bothe the Qnap I owned died or had issues.

If you want a storage system, get something else.
1
2
Jun 28, 2022 01:37 AM
56 Posts
Joined Dec 2018
Jun 28, 2022 01:37 AM
JohnG6518Jun 28, 2022 01:37 AM
56 Posts
In 4 one. Thx. I'll take Qnap over synology any day of the week.
Last edited by JohnG6518 June 27, 2022 at 06:38 PM.
3
Pro
Jun 30, 2022 09:21 PM
590 Posts
Joined Jan 2016
Jun 30, 2022 09:21 PM
wildbird12
Pro
Jun 30, 2022 09:21 PM
590 Posts
This unit is available for this price from other vendors as well. I was able to score this off eBay with a $50 eBay discount. I added another 4GB RAM (DDR4 2666) and was able to pop the hard drives from my aging QNAP TS231 right into this without reformatting or recreation of the RAID array. So far so good. Smilie
Jun 30, 2022 09:25 PM
12,440 Posts
Joined Jan 2007
Jun 30, 2022 09:25 PM
MadPupJun 30, 2022 09:25 PM
12,440 Posts
A similar Asus one in the same price bracket: https://www.amazon.com/Asustor-AS...B07PYJ2KNC

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Pro
Jun 30, 2022 09:44 PM
590 Posts
Joined Jan 2016
Jun 30, 2022 09:44 PM
wildbird12
Pro
Jun 30, 2022 09:44 PM
590 Posts
Quote from nobody2000 :
This price is about on par for this type of system. While you're not getting any drives, you're paying for a small form factor, low power consumption, and sadly, QNAP's QTS operating system which is not great.

Overall, if you're looking to get into running a server, be it for simple network attached storage, Plex streaming, hosting a number of services using docker, or whatever - it's a good starter device, provided you prioritize security.

Now - there's a risk of outgrowing this very quickly (like 1 year), but if you go this route, there are some things to know:
  • QTS sucks. It's bad. First thing you should do is make sure uPnP is disabled on your router and go ahead and disable it in QTS too.
  • Next, don't use the admin account (get rid of it if they still let you) and use a custom username with admin rights instead.
  • Next, disable/uninstall MyQNAPCloud. While the disabling of uPnP will solve all the insecure problems, this ensure it. QNAP, in order to make remote administration easy, by default opens a port on your router and on the qnap (if uPnP is enabled). Hackers have been able to easily bypass your login screen and run ransomware on the devices. Secure it to avoid this.
  • Finally, some other things to know:
    • The QNAP app store has most of the software you need, but you can snag containers from docker hub and install them in container station. If you're slightly more savvy, you'll install Portainer and do them all that way
    • 4 drives can fill up fast, even if you're silly and have them in RAID0/JBOD and only buy 18gb drives. Once you hit your 4, you have two options:
      • 1.) Get a USB expansion (QNAP TR-004 or similar)
      • 2.) Get a SAS expansion.
      • The first option is slow, and the second option is fast but expensive in a way that should have you considering just upgrading to a better system. Also - option 2 will eat up your PCI-e slot, so there goes any other potential expansions you might have wanted to do differently.
  • You can boot unRAID on this and it's 100x better. You can run it on a USB, and I think on this device, you can actually overwrite the boot storage (I can't remember what it's called).
  • I believe the specs say this maxes out at 8gb RAM. You CAN do 16gb, but in my own similar QNAP device, it's caused problems in QTS. In unRAID, all is nice and smooth.
  • Finally, if you do want to do remote administration, use openVPN or throw wireguard on the device and run your own VPN that you can just log into - it's fairly secure. You could also run a secure reverse proxy into a specific port for particular docker containers, but the VPN is more secure. 2-factor everything you can.

QNAP gets a lot of (deserved) hate, however if you perform just a handful of relatively easy steps, you can get a lot out of an affordable, low-power-consumption device. They also have decent resale value and likely will for 5 more years, so if you do upgrade, you can at least put a good chunk of the QNAP value toward that.
Thank you very much - this is very helpful and really appreciated!
Jun 30, 2022 09:50 PM
26,321 Posts
Joined May 2006
Jun 30, 2022 09:50 PM
namlookJun 30, 2022 09:50 PM
26,321 Posts
Quote from JohnG6518 :
In 4 one. Thx. I'll take Qnap over synology any day of the week.
I have a QNAP NAS too but I see more people saying they prefer Synology. What makes QNAP better other than it costs less?
1
Jun 30, 2022 10:14 PM
2,348 Posts
Joined Apr 2006
Jun 30, 2022 10:14 PM
tomz17Jun 30, 2022 10:14 PM
2,348 Posts
Quote from nobody2000 :
QTS sucks. It's bad. First thing you should do is make sure uPnP is disabled on your router and go ahead and disable it in QTS too.
Yup. IMHO, the primary problem here is the expansion of functionality. A NAS should provide iSCSI, NFS, SAMBA, maybe AFP services, and that is it. That is the complete, full, exhaustive list. Nothing a single thing more.

In contrast, you now have these proprietary devices of questionable software quality (and certainly questionable software maintenance going forward), running all sorts of other poorly-maintained internet-facing services, while simultaneously being dumbed down enough to let joe-average shoot themselves in the foot with promises of click-to-install "server apps" that punch holes out to the internet.

So as long as you treat these as a NAS, and not a do-it-all-poorly internet-facing application server, you should be fine. (i.e. I had a pile of QNAP's and did not get hit by any of the ransomware... because my devices only serve NFS and don't have any access to the internet whatsoever)
Jun 30, 2022 10:15 PM
2,348 Posts
Joined Apr 2006
Jun 30, 2022 10:15 PM
tomz17Jun 30, 2022 10:15 PM
2,348 Posts
Quote from namlook :
I have a QNAP NAS too but I see more people saying they prefer Synology. What makes QNAP better other than it costs less?
When I compared both, the encryption options were far better on the QNAP IIRC.
Jul 01, 2022 02:09 AM
677 Posts
Joined Nov 2007
Jul 01, 2022 02:09 AM
hazardcJul 01, 2022 02:09 AM
677 Posts
Quote from supersteals :
I have sworn off QNAP.
I have owned 2 separate QNAP - one a rack mount unit with 4 bay which was for business use and a TS431 for home use.
The rack mount unit (supposed to be business grade), died suddenly. I couldn't get it power on remotely. When I finally got it back to office I found it wouldn't even power on after trying a full reset. So seems like the mother board died. It was a complete disaster when a system that stores lot of data just dies without any early warning.

The home unit - similar story - one bay stopped working suddenly. It's ridiculous that bothe the Qnap I owned died or had issues.

If you want a storage system, get something else.

sounds like every synology nas my friends and i have ever owned. qnap actuallly does use quts Hero OS now on some of their NAS and that gives you ZFS+ file system which is a real game changer in the consumer nas market. ... rebulilding your array takes minutes to maybe an hour .... instead of a day ...



That said, mobo failure is almost to be expected in my circle with synology... i haven't had the bad luck yet with qnap but they sure do get a lot of attention from hackers/ransomware devs/etc.... constnatly need to stay up to date

i'd go qnap all day for a NAS but my credit card doubles the warranty period so i'm less worried about failures (but i do expect failure at some point... i use the shit otu of it

10gig Rj45
2x 2.5gig RJ45

3x usb 10gig for adding more JBODS ..

thisthing is cool, and has a ryzen.. most of the synology stuff we had that failed was like intel atom or celeron or some other crap that wasn't a "normal" server cpu.. this one has one.. .. heat will always win the day though with those kidns of failures so keep it cool...
Jul 01, 2022 02:11 AM
677 Posts
Joined Nov 2007
Jul 01, 2022 02:11 AM
hazardcJul 01, 2022 02:11 AM
677 Posts
Quote from supersteals :
I have sworn off QNAP.
I have owned 2 separate QNAP - one a rack mount unit with 4 bay which was for business use and a TS431 for home use.
The rack mount unit (supposed to be business grade), died suddenly. I couldn't get it power on remotely. When I finally got it back to office I found it wouldn't even power on after trying a full reset. So seems like the mother board died. It was a complete disaster when a system that stores lot of data just dies without any early warning.

The home unit - similar story - one bay stopped working suddenly. It's ridiculous that bothe the Qnap I owned died or had issues.

If you want a storage system, get something else.
Quote from hazardc :
sounds like every synology nas my friends and i have ever owned. qnap actuallly does use quts Hero OS now on some of their NAS and that gives you ZFS+ file system which is a real game changer in the consumer nas market. ... rebulilding your array takes minutes to maybe an hour .... instead of a day ...



That said, mobo failure is almost to be expected in my circle with synology... i haven't had the bad luck yet with qnap but they sure do get a lot of attention from hackers/ransomware devs/etc.... constnatly need to stay up to date

i'd go qnap all day for a NAS but my credit card doubles the warranty period so i'm less worried about failures (but i do expect failure at some point... i use the shit otu of it

10gig Rj45
2x 2.5gig RJ45

3x usb 10gig for adding more JBODS ..

thisthing is cool, and has a ryzen.. most of the synology stuff we had that failed was like intel atom or celeron or some other crap that wasn't a "normal" server cpu.. this one has one.. .. heat will always win the day though with those kidns of failures so keep it cool...

added note.. tbh.. you coulda probably thrown the mobo in the oven and had it working... cold solder joints plague these things and heat exposes them.. I used to thjrow almost every electronc thing that broke on me (without letting out the smoke) into the oven to do a ghetto reflow and 90% of the time it resulted in "fixed"

hell, i took a propane torch to the dts chip on my pioneer sc63 a few months ago and it's still running like a chamnp... it was completely dead (and 700+ to reapair)
Jul 01, 2022 02:24 AM
1,092 Posts
Joined Nov 2007
Jul 01, 2022 02:24 AM
5thgenJul 01, 2022 02:24 AM
1,092 Posts
A lot of work to get the damn thing secured. I'd pass on qnap.

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Jul 01, 2022 04:36 PM
26,321 Posts
Joined May 2006
Jul 01, 2022 04:36 PM
namlookJul 01, 2022 04:36 PM
26,321 Posts
Quote from hazardc :
added note.. tbh.. you coulda probably thrown the mobo in the oven and had it working... cold solder joints plague these things and heat exposes them.. I used to thjrow almost every electronc thing that broke on me (without letting out the smoke) into the oven to do a ghetto reflow and 90% of the time it resulted in "fixed"

hell, i took a propane torch to the dts chip on my pioneer sc63 a few months ago and it's still running like a chamnp... it was completely dead (and 700+ to reapair)
Have you had to do this more than once? Seems like this could "patch" the problem temporarily rather than fix it and the issue would be likely to reoccur again at some point.
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