New Drop Customers: Massdrop X Sennheiser HD 6XX Open-Back Headphones (Midnight Blue) $169

BeigeRoad455

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Jun 16, 2024 5:16 AM

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BeigeRoad455Jun 16, 2024 5:16 AM

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A few basics to get out of the way first, since I know people wander onto these headphone deals not realizing these are audiophile cans for critical listening: these headphones are wired only (no bluetooth or wireless connections of any kind), have no form of active noise cancelling, have extremely poor sound isolation (you can hear whats going on around you, and everyone around you can hear what you're listening to), and are moderately heavy and bulky. They are designed to be used at home with a dedicated audio setup.

With a high impedance and only moderately high sensitivity these headphones are fairly difficult to drive. I would only recommend purchasing these headphones if you already have a headphone amplifier or plan to purchase one, your motherboards 3.5mm output or a phone dongle will not be able to drive the hd6xx well at standard listening volumes. If you plan to use eq (equalization) at all this is even more relevant, as the necessary negative preamp to prevent clipping means these headphones will require even more power.

The hd6xx (and the hd 650, which is functionally identical) are widely regarded as baseline audiophile headphones. They are near universally acclaimed for their sound and build quality in their price bracket. The hd6xx are renowned for having exceptionally balanced and detailed mids, and having an overall laid back sound signature that the vast majority of people find pleasant. That being said, the hd6xx has fairly deficient bass and a mildly restrained treble, so those who prefer a more v-shaped sound profile would likely be better served looking elsewhere. The hd6xx have a decent amount of distortion in the bass region at high volumes, so don't be too heavy handed raising the bass through eq. Their soundstage and imaging are also generally considered middling for open backed headphones, though still superior to the majority of closed back headphones. Ultimately, the hd6xx shine when used to listen to well mastered music. While they're certainly highly competent for other purposes, such as gaming, that's not where their main strengths lie. Likewise, if you listen to poorly mastered or compressed music, the hd6xx are rather revealing and you'll likely find those flaws magnified.

The build quality of the hd6xx is very good, they have an excellent reputation for longevity. The cable included with the hd6xx is supposedly somewhat worse than the one included with the hd 650, but I haven't heard any major complaints regarding it. The hd6xx is made in Ireland, and I believe it uses the older slightly different plastic molding than that which is used in the current silent revision of the hd 650. Regardless, the pads, drivers, and entire driver/cup assembly are identical between the hd6xx and hd650, and measurements between the two headphones fall within expected unit to unit variation. Those with larger heads may find the clamping force to be somewhat high, this can easily be rectified by stretching out the headband.

While the hd6xx are no longer the absolute undisputed value kings they used to be due to the advent of several competitive headphones both in a lower price bracket (hifiman 400se @ $109, sennheiser hd 560s @ $130, etc.) and a higher price bracket (hifiman sundara @ $300, hifiman edition xs @$379, etc.) in the past several years, they still remain a compelling value proposition.

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nedh84

Jun 16, 2024 6:54 AM

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Joined Jun 2011

nedh84Jun 16, 2024 6:54 AM

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Quote from BeigeRoad455

:

While the hd6xx are no longer the absolute undisputed value kings they used to be due to the advent of several competitive headphones both in a lower price bracket (hifiman 400se @ $109, sennheiser hd 560s @ $130, etc.) and a higher price bracket (hifiman sundara @ $300, hifiman edition xs @$379, etc.) in the past several years, they still remain a compelling value proposition.

How do the HD 560s compare? Are those similar to the old 598s? How do the various headphones you listed stack up. (assuming you have the time to answer this question)

Truly I appreciate your initial assessment!

Last edited by nedh84 June 16, 2024 at 12:02 AM.

BeigeRoad455

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Jun 16, 2024 9:00 PM

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BeigeRoad455Jun 16, 2024 9:00 PM

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Quote from nedh84

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How do the HD 560s compare? Are those similar to the old 598s? How do the various headphones you listed stack up. (assuming you have the time to answer this question)

Truly I appreciate your initial assessment!

The hd 560s (normally $146, $130 on an excellent sale) are a bit of an oddball in the sennheiser lineup, they straddle the line between the lower end "500" series and the higher end "600" series. Their build quality is mostly reminiscent of the other 500 series headphones, being very light with a cheap plasticky feeling build and high clamping force. While the build quality isn't as good as the hd6xx, despite their cheap feel sennheiser's 500 series headphones have a reputation for being near immortal, and I've never heard any complaints regarding the longevity of the hd 560s. That said, I am aware that there were some issues with channel imbalance in early batches of 560s, to my knowledge that hasn't been an issue for a while. The hd 560s also require significantly less power to drive than the hd6xx. In terms of sound quality the 560s are definitely a step above the rest of the 500 series. Their sound signature is rather conformant to the harman curve, and overall is quite neutral. As with essentially all open back sennheiser headphones the 560s have a fairly weak bass response, though it does have meaningfully stronger bass than 600 series headphones such as the hd650 (hd6xx). The treble is also somewhat emphasized, with a couple of peaks which may make the 560s somewhat fatiguing to listen to for long periods. The "sennheiser veil" often associated with the hd650 (hd6xx) is nonexistent with the hd 560s. Overall, the 560s is brutally neutral with an emphasis on treble, it is a headphone primarily made for critically listening rather than simply relaxing and enjoying music. In terms of detail retrieval the 560s is anecdotally generally described as being meaningfully superior to other 500 series headphones, but somewhat worse compared to the hd650 (hd6xx). The 560s has rather good spatial qualities (soundstage and imaging), generally considered to be a meaningful improvement over sennheisers 600 series. They also have angled drivers, which depending on the individual can improve perceived spatial qualities. Dynamics are also fairly good. Unfortunately the hd 560s have fairly high distortion in the bass region, so much like the hd6xx you should only increase bass to a limited degree with eq. Overall the hd 560s are good jack of all trade headphones, being competent for critical listening, gaming, and media consumption. Compared to the hd6xx, they're especially superior with regards to gaming, due to their more neutral and treble focused sound signature, superior imaging, and superior soundstage. That being said, for purely enjoying music, most people find the hd6xx to be superior overall.

Before discussing the other headphones I mentioned, I'd like to preface this section by providing some context with regards to hifiman. Hifiman is a chinese brand known to create extremely competitively priced planar magnetic headphones. Quite a few of hifiman's skus, particularly at the lower end, tend to be considered the best in their price bracket in terms of pure sound quality by a decent margin. However, hifiman has a substantially worse reputation with regards to quality control, build quality, and product longevity compared to basically every other major brand. Therefore, if you're considering a hifiman headphone, it's important to be willing to deal with their customer support if you happen to get unlucky, and be willing to tolerate the possibility of having to replace the headphone earlier than expected.

The hifiman he400se are an absolute steal at $109, though this does come with some caveats. The build quality of the hifiman he-400se feels rather substantial, however in terms of quality control, longevity, and reliability the he400se tend to have a worse reputation, just like the rest of hifiman's lineup. Channel imbalance seems to be not as rare as one would hope, and driver failure likewise appears to be somewhat more common compared to other brands. The included cable is also fairly poor quality. The he400se is also somewhat heavy. The sound signature of the he400se is fairly neutral overall, with a deficiency in bass (stronger bass than the hd6xx, but slightly weaker bass than the hd 560s), a dip from around 1.5khz-3khz, and some very slight messiness in the upper treble. However, one of the primary strengths of the he400se is how well it takes to eq. The design of it's planar magnetic drivers means it has extremely low distortion, which in turn means that as long as you have a sufficiently powerful headphone amp you can extensively eq the he400se without issue. With eq the 400se actually have good bass (and even sub-bass) response. Spatial qualities (imaging and soundstage) with eq are also fairly good, being superior to the hd6xx. Detail retrieval is anecdotally generally considered to be rather good, being in a similar league to the hd 560s. Dynamics are also fairly good. Ultimately, the he400se is generally considered to be competitive with the hd 560s so long as you have an amp sufficiently powerful to handle it with extensive eq. With eq they're likewise jack of all trades headphones, and you realistically can't go wrong choosing either the hd560s or the he400se so long as you can drive the he400se. Since the 400se are already somewhat difficult to drive due to their low sensitivity, and eq sufficient to reach harman levels of bass requires a greater than -9db negative preamp, you should only consider the he400se if you have a more powerful amp.

Moving on to the hifiman sundara (the open backed 2020 version, not the closed back), this is the first headphone I've mentioned that is generally considered to be a straight upgrade (even if a minor one) over the hd6xx. Unfortunately, the sundara don't tend to go on sale below $300 new. Quite simply put, the sundara can just be described as the he400se but better. A slightly better sound signature without eq, slightly better spatial qualities, slightly better detail retrieval, slightly better dynamics, etc. With eq the sundara are generally considered better all-rounder headphones than the hd6xx, the superior spatial qualities and strong bass response being the primary upsides, though many people may still prefer the more relaxed sound signature of the hd6xx. The build quality of the sundara is similar to that of the he400se, but it has a ski-band style headband. Likewise, the exact same issues of quality control and longevity mentioned regarding the he400se apply to the sundara. A powerful amp is required for extensive eq, particularly in the bass region. Hifiman sells refurbished sundara with full warranty for $200, though I wouldn't recommend them since the superior hifiman edition xs goes on sale refurbished for $279.

The edition xs ($379) are generally considered to be a step up from the sundara in terms of sound quality, and the point past which headphones in general have drastically greater diminishing returns. The edition xs are much bulkier and somewhat heavier than the sundara, and use the same headband as the he400se. The edition xs may not be a good fit for those with smaller heads. Concerns about quality control and longevity are unfortunately just as applicable. Compared to the sundara, the edition xs are generally considered to have better bass response (pre and post eq), better spatial qualities, better detail retrieval, and better dynamics. With eq they're generally considered to be one of if not the best sounding headphones below $500. A powerful amp is still needed for extensive eq if you listen at loud volumes, but they're not quite as power hungry compared to the sundara or 400se, particularly since a smaller negative preamp is required for eq. Hifiman sells refurbished edition xs for $279, and the premium over the sundara is worth it imo. The thread for that deal, with a post with some additional details about the edition xs, can be found here: https://slickdeals.net/f/17238631-hifiman-edition-xs-planar-magnetic-headphones-refurbished-279-free-shipping

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful to you, I kind of just rambled off the top of my head. Please keep in mind that each individual has different ears and different preferences, what's most important is what sounds good to you. You should do your own research and form your own understanding of what your preferred qualities are in a headphone. Even if a headphone isn't as generally well acclaimed by the audiophile community, or doesn't measure as well by "objective" metrics, as long as it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.

Last edited by BeigeRoad455 June 16, 2024 at 02:46 PM.

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PurpleDirt5287

Jun 17, 2024 8:49 AM

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PurpleDirt5287Jun 17, 2024 8:49 AM

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Foucault

Jun 19, 2024 6:35 PM

31 Comments

Joined Oct 2011

FoucaultJun 19, 2024 6:35 PM

31 Comments

Quote from BeigeRoad455

:

The hd 560s (normally $146, $130 on an excellent sale) are a bit of an oddball in the sennheiser lineup, they straddle the line between the lower end "500" series and the higher end "600" series. Their build quality is mostly reminiscent of the other 500 series headphones, being very light with a cheap plasticky feeling build and high clamping force. While the build quality isn't as good as the hd6xx, despite their cheap feel sennheiser's 500 series headphones have a reputation for being near immortal, and I've never heard any complaints regarding the longevity of the hd 560s. That said, I am aware that there were some issues with channel imbalance in early batches of 560s, to my knowledge that hasn't been an issue for a while. The hd 560s also require significantly less power to drive than the hd6xx. In terms of sound quality the 560s are definitely a step above the rest of the 500 series. Their sound signature is rather conformant to the harman curve, and overall is quite neutral. As with essentially all open back sennheiser headphones the 560s have a fairly weak bass response, though it does have meaningfully stronger bass than 600 series headphones such as the hd650 (hd6xx). The treble is also somewhat emphasized, with a couple of peaks which may make the 560s somewhat fatiguing to listen to for long periods. The "sennheiser veil" often associated with the hd650 (hd6xx) is nonexistent with the hd 560s. Overall, the 560s is brutally neutral with an emphasis on treble, it is a headphone primarily made for critically listening rather than simply relaxing and enjoying music. In terms of detail retrieval the 560s is anecdotally generally described as being meaningfully superior to other 500 series headphones, but somewhat worse compared to the hd650 (hd6xx). The 560s has rather good spatial qualities (soundstage and imaging), generally considered to be a meaningful improvement over sennheisers 600 series. They also have angled drivers, which depending on the individual can improve perceived spatial qualities. Dynamics are also fairly good. Unfortunately the hd 560s have fairly high distortion in the bass region, so much like the hd6xx you should only increase bass to a limited degree with eq. Overall the hd 560s are good jack of all trade headphones, being competent for critical listening, gaming, and media consumption. Compared to the hd6xx, they're especially superior with regards to gaming, due to their more neutral and treble focused sound signature, superior imaging, and superior soundstage. That being said, for purely enjoying music, most people find the hd6xx to be superior overall.

Before discussing the other headphones I mentioned, I'd like to preface this section by providing some context with regards to hifiman. Hifiman is a chinese brand known to create extremely competitively priced planar magnetic headphones. Quite a few of hifiman's skus, particularly at the lower end, tend to be considered the best in their price bracket in terms of pure sound quality by a decent margin. However, hifiman has a substantially worse reputation with regards to quality control, build quality, and product longevity compared to basically every other major brand. Therefore, if you're considering a hifiman headphone, it's important to be willing to deal with their customer support if you happen to get unlucky, and be willing to tolerate the possibility of having to replace the headphone earlier than expected.

The hifiman he400se are an absolute steal at $109, though this does come with some caveats. The build quality of the hifiman he-400se feels rather substantial, however in terms of quality control, longevity, and reliability the he400se tend to have a worse reputation, just like the rest of hifiman's lineup. Channel imbalance seems to be not as rare as one would hope, and driver failure likewise appears to be somewhat more common compared to other brands. The included cable is also fairly poor quality. The he400se is also somewhat heavy. The sound signature of the he400se is fairly neutral overall, with a deficiency in bass (stronger bass than the hd6xx, but slightly weaker bass than the hd 560s), a dip from around 1.5khz-3khz, and some very slight messiness in the upper treble. However, one of the primary strengths of the he400se is how well it takes to eq. The design of it's planar magnetic drivers means it has extremely low distortion, which in turn means that as long as you have a sufficiently powerful headphone amp you can extensively eq the he400se without issue. With eq the 400se actually have good bass (and even sub-bass) response. Spatial qualities (imaging and soundstage) with eq are also fairly good, being superior to the hd6xx. Detail retrieval is anecdotally generally considered to be rather good, being in a similar league to the hd 560s. Dynamics are also fairly good. Ultimately, the he400se is generally considered to be competitive with the hd 560s so long as you have an amp sufficiently powerful to handle it with extensive eq. With eq they're likewise jack of all trades headphones, and you realistically can't go wrong choosing either the hd560s or the he400se so long as you can drive the he400se. Since the 400se are already somewhat difficult to drive due to their low sensitivity, and eq sufficient to reach harman levels of bass requires a greater than -9db negative preamp, you should only consider the he400se if you have a more powerful amp.

Moving on to the hifiman sundara (the open backed 2020 version, not the closed back), this is the first headphone I've mentioned that is generally considered to be a straight upgrade (even if a minor one) over the hd6xx. Unfortunately, the sundara don't tend to go on sale below $300 new. Quite simply put, the sundara can just be described as the he400se but better. A slightly better sound signature without eq, slightly better spatial qualities, slightly better detail retrieval, slightly better dynamics, etc. With eq the sundara are generally considered better all-rounder headphones than the hd6xx, the superior spatial qualities and strong bass response being the primary upsides, though many people may still prefer the more relaxed sound signature of the hd6xx. The build quality of the sundara is similar to that of the he400se, but it has a ski-band style headband. Likewise, the exact same issues of quality control and longevity mentioned regarding the he400se apply to the sundara. A powerful amp is required for extensive eq, particularly in the bass region. Hifiman sells refurbished sundara with full warranty for $200, though I wouldn't recommend them since the superior hifiman edition xs goes on sale refurbished for $279.

The edition xs ($379) are generally considered to be a step up from the sundara in terms of sound quality, and the point past which headphones in general have drastically greater diminishing returns. The edition xs are much bulkier and somewhat heavier than the sundara, and use the same headband as the he400se. The edition xs may not be a good fit for those with smaller heads. Concerns about quality control and longevity are unfortunately just as applicable. Compared to the sundara, the edition xs are generally considered to have better bass response (pre and post eq), better spatial qualities, better detail retrieval, and better dynamics. With eq they're generally considered to be one of if not the best sounding headphones below $500. A powerful amp is still needed for extensive eq if you listen at loud volumes, but they're not quite as power hungry compared to the sundara or 400se, particularly since a smaller negative preamp is required for eq. Hifiman sells refurbished edition xs for $279, and the premium over the sundara is worth it imo. The thread for that deal, with a post with some additional details about the edition xs, can be found here: https://slickdeals.net/f/17238631-hifiman-edition-xs-planar-magnetic-headphones-refurbished-279-free-shipping

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful to you, I kind of just rambled off the top of my head. Please keep in mind that each individual has different ears and different preferences, what's most important is what sounds good to you. You should do your own research and form your own understanding of what your preferred qualities are in a headphone. Even if a headphone isn't as generally well acclaimed by the audiophile community, or doesn't measure as well by "objective" metrics, as long as it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.

Thanks for the insightful post.
I already have a pair of He400se which I really love. Also have a Sundara coming in soon.

How does the edition XS compare to the HE6se v2? Does the HE6se v2 make the XS redundant?

BeigeRoad455

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Jun 23, 2024 8:39 PM

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BeigeRoad455Jun 23, 2024 8:39 PM

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Quote from Foucault

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Thanks for the insightful post.
I already have a pair of He400se which I really love. Also have a Sundara coming in soon.

How does the edition XS compare to the HE6se v2? Does the HE6se v2 make the XS redundant?

As far as I've heard the edition xs and he6se have sound quality of a fairly similar tier overall. The he6se has a bit of a cult following where some people claim that if you drive it with an absurdly powerful amp (>3w@50Ω) the sound is better, but this is all anecdotal, highly subjective, and quite possibly just placebo. In terms of quality control/longevity, in addition to the usual hifiman issues, the he6se is notorious for having the membrane in the driver get stuck to the magnets.
If you already have the he6se with an amp capable of powering it, I doubt the edition xs would be a meaningful upgrade. If you're just looking for a new upper-midrange headphone, the edition xs is much cheaper ($379 new or $239 manufacturer refurbished with full warranty), far easier to drive, and is generally regarded to have similar overall sound quality.

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fredox19

Jun 26, 2024 12:30 AM

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Joined Feb 2008

fredox19Jun 26, 2024 12:30 AM

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New Drop Customers: Massdrop X Sennheiser HD 6XX Open-Back Headphones (Midnight Blue) $169

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