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expiredphoinix | Staff posted Feb 27, 2025 01:19 PM
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expiredphoinix | Staff posted Feb 27, 2025 01:19 PM

Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will (eBook) by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Various Retailers have Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will (eBook) on sale for $1.99.

Thanks to Deal Hunter phoinix for finding this deal.

Available from:Product Details:
  • Author: Robert M. Sapolsky
  • Print Length:‎ 527 pages
  • Robert Sapolsky's Behave, his now classic account of why humans do good and why they do bad, pointed toward an unsettling conclusion: we may not grasp exactly how nature and nurture create the physics and chemistry that cause all human behavior, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In Determined, Sapolsky takes his argument all the way, mounting a brilliant (and in his inimitable way, delightful) full-frontal assault on the pleasant fantasy that there is some separate self who tells our biology what to do.
  • Determined offers a marvelous synthesis of what we know about consciousness - the tight weave between reason and emotion and between stimulus and response in the moment and over a life. One by one, Sapolsky takes out all the major arguments for free will, cutting a path through the thickets of chaos theory and quantum physics. But as Sapolsky acknowledges, it's sometimes impossible to uncouple from our zeal to judge people, including ourselves. Determined applies this new understanding to some of our most essential questions around punishment, morality, and living well together. Most of all, Sapolsky argues that while accepting the reality about free will is monumentally difficult, it will make for a much more humane world.

Editor's Notes

Written by RevOne | Staff
  • Ratings & Reviews:
    • Rated 4.5 out of 5 stars based on over 1,260 customer reviews.
  • About this store:

Original Post

Written by phoinix | Staff
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Product Info
Community Notes
About the Poster
Various Retailers have Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will (eBook) on sale for $1.99.

Thanks to Deal Hunter phoinix for finding this deal.

Available from:Product Details:
  • Author: Robert M. Sapolsky
  • Print Length:‎ 527 pages
  • Robert Sapolsky's Behave, his now classic account of why humans do good and why they do bad, pointed toward an unsettling conclusion: we may not grasp exactly how nature and nurture create the physics and chemistry that cause all human behavior, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In Determined, Sapolsky takes his argument all the way, mounting a brilliant (and in his inimitable way, delightful) full-frontal assault on the pleasant fantasy that there is some separate self who tells our biology what to do.
  • Determined offers a marvelous synthesis of what we know about consciousness - the tight weave between reason and emotion and between stimulus and response in the moment and over a life. One by one, Sapolsky takes out all the major arguments for free will, cutting a path through the thickets of chaos theory and quantum physics. But as Sapolsky acknowledges, it's sometimes impossible to uncouple from our zeal to judge people, including ourselves. Determined applies this new understanding to some of our most essential questions around punishment, morality, and living well together. Most of all, Sapolsky argues that while accepting the reality about free will is monumentally difficult, it will make for a much more humane world.

Editor's Notes

Written by RevOne | Staff
  • Ratings & Reviews:
    • Rated 4.5 out of 5 stars based on over 1,260 customer reviews.
  • About this store:

Original Post

Written by phoinix | Staff

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Top Comments

larnatdad
306 Posts
73 Reputation
I just picked this up, although I am unsure as to who made the decision to do so!
MozVolta
1030 Posts
105 Reputation
Is "contemplation" not also thought? Does contemplation itself also not just spring up into conscious view?... Can you pre- contemplate contemplation? Or does contemplating not merely pop into conscious view without any agency?...
MsTwo
3 Posts
14 Reputation
This book is excellent.

33 Comments

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Feb 28, 2025 04:18 PM
306 Posts
Joined Nov 2022
larnatdadFeb 28, 2025 04:18 PM
306 Posts
I just picked this up, although I am unsure as to who made the decision to do so!
7
Mar 01, 2025 05:45 PM
3 Posts
Joined Mar 2009
MsTwoMar 01, 2025 05:45 PM
3 Posts

Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank MsTwo

This book is excellent.
1
1
Mar 02, 2025 03:06 AM
1,030 Posts
Joined Nov 2012
MozVoltaMar 02, 2025 03:06 AM
1,030 Posts
Quote from larnatdad :
I just picked this up, although I am unsure as to who made the decision to do so!
It was you, although you had no choice but to buy the book
Mar 03, 2025 01:54 PM
3,323 Posts
Joined Sep 2013
PaulP6715Mar 03, 2025 01:54 PM
3,323 Posts
Quote from MozVolta :
It was you, although you had no choice but to buy the book
I feel compelled to give you rep. woot
Mar 03, 2025 02:17 PM
8,665 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
infin8007Mar 03, 2025 02:17 PM
8,665 Posts
My non free will, will not allow me to buy this book. My ancestors influence to avoid poverty likely influenced by
the great depression sculpted me to look for free alternatives... So first I checked amazon for the reviews..
Then I went to youtube and found the author is there sharing his ideas.. but alas youtube has ads..

So i remembered . freetube windows ap (do they have one for android?)

it appears the gist of the book/idea is that your genetic makeup and environment build you so much that you dont' have free will according to the author. Many don't agree including me.
5
Mar 03, 2025 08:55 PM
331 Posts
Joined Oct 2006
cathmandanMar 03, 2025 08:55 PM
331 Posts
So genetics and environment compelled the author to make the tens of thousands of small decisions that led to the publication of this book, and he had NO SAY in the matter?!

I really want to know if that's his argument, or if it's more nuanced than that.
1
Mar 03, 2025 10:23 PM
1,030 Posts
Joined Nov 2012
MozVoltaMar 03, 2025 10:23 PM
1,030 Posts

Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank MozVolta

Quote from infin8007 :
My non free will, will not allow me to buy this book. My ancestors influence to avoid poverty likely influenced by
the great depression sculpted me to look for free alternatives... So first I checked amazon for the reviews..
Then I went to youtube and found the author is there sharing his ideas.. but alas youtube has ads..

So i remembered . freetube windows ap (do they have one for android?)

it appears the gist of the book/idea is that your genetic makeup and environment build you so much that you dont' have free will according to the author. Many don't agree including me.
Let me ask you a simple question: can you think a thought before you think it? Or do thoughts merely pop into conscious view? As far as I'm concerned, you can't pre-think thinking. Thoughts just arise into conscious view without any agency whatsoever. That being the case, where is there room for free will? Or do you claim to be able to think of the thought before you're consciously aware of it?? You can't. But if you somehow were able to, can you then pre-think the pre-thought? And so on .. it would be an infinite regress, turtles all the way down. The very fact that you can't control your own thoughts to me means you don't have free will. I know it feels like you can. But when you think about it, you don't control the actual thoughts from arising into conscious view
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Mar 03, 2025 11:45 PM
8,665 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
infin8007Mar 03, 2025 11:45 PM
8,665 Posts
Quote from MozVolta :
Let me ask you a simple question: can you think a thought before you think it? Or do thoughts merely pop into conscious view? As far as I'm concerned, you can't pre-think thinking. Thoughts just arise into conscious view without any agency whatsoever. That being the case, where is there room for free will? Or do you claim to be able to think of the thought before you're consciously aware of it?? You can't. But if you somehow were able to, can you then pre-think the pre-thought? And so on .. it would be an infinite regress, turtles all the way down. The very fact that you can't control your own thoughts to me means you don't have free will. I know it feels like you can. But when you think about it, you don't control the actual thoughts from arising into conscious view
You have free will. You have thoughts that strike your mind like a spark and then you spit it out in words.

Your free will is to contemplate your thoughts and make a choice.
1
Mar 04, 2025 12:07 AM
1,030 Posts
Joined Nov 2012
MozVoltaMar 04, 2025 12:07 AM
1,030 Posts
Quote from infin8007 :
You have free will. You have thoughts that strike your mind like a spark and then you spit it out in words.

Your free will is to contemplate your thoughts and make a choice.
Is "contemplation" not also thought? Does contemplation itself also not just spring up into conscious view?... Can you pre- contemplate contemplation? Or does contemplating not merely pop into conscious view without any agency?...
Mar 04, 2025 12:22 AM
8,665 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
infin8007Mar 04, 2025 12:22 AM
8,665 Posts
Quote from MozVolta :
Is "contemplation" not also thought? Does contemplation itself also not just spring up into conscious view?... Can you pre- contemplate contemplation? Or does contemplating not merely pop into conscious view without any agency?...
Your mind looks at the evidence. Your mind weighs the values and outcomes and you decide. Your decision and value are who you are. You choose different foods and drinks because you have thoughts and free will. If you always chose the same then I would wonder.
Mar 04, 2025 12:40 AM
7,155 Posts
Joined Aug 2010
rootbearMar 04, 2025 12:40 AM
7,155 Posts
Just buy this. Now.
Mar 04, 2025 01:02 AM
1,030 Posts
Joined Nov 2012
MozVoltaMar 04, 2025 01:02 AM
1,030 Posts
Quote from infin8007 :
Your mind looks at the evidence. Your mind weighs the values and outcomes and you decide. Your decision and value are who you are. You choose different foods and drinks because you have thoughts and free will. If you always chose the same then I would wonder.
The entire thing went right over your head, but I don't blame you. You couldn't have answered in any other way than you did, as you had no choice. When your mind "assesses" the evidence, the assessment itself, like ALL your thoughts, just sprang into conscious view. You can't pre-assess assessment. You can't "pre" anything involved in the mind, it simply appears in conscious view. Whatever pops up into conscious view, be it assessment, decisions, etc, there was absolutely no agency involved in any of that. It all just came into conscious view without any actual agency or volition (as much as it feels like you have it).

You seem to agree, as I would think most people do, that thoughts just pop into your mind without your agency. But the error you commit is you then separate "assessment" and "decisions" from thoughts, as though they are something else, when they also just pop into conscious view on their own, like all your other thoughts.

I'll preemptively forgive you for your response to this, as you can't help but to think what you're about to think, as it's just going to arise into your conscious view without your agency
3
Mar 04, 2025 03:43 AM
8,665 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
infin8007Mar 04, 2025 03:43 AM
8,665 Posts
Quote from MozVolta :
The entire thing went right over your head, but I don't blame you. You couldn't have answered in any other way than you did, as you had no choice. When your mind "assesses" the evidence, the assessment itself, like ALL your thoughts, just sprang into conscious view. You can't pre-assess assessment. You can't "pre" anything involved in the mind, it simply appears in conscious view. Whatever pops up into conscious view, be it assessment, decisions, etc, there was absolutely no agency involved in any of that. It all just came into conscious view without any actual agency or volition (as much as it feels like you have it).

You seem to agree, as I would think most people do, that thoughts just pop into your mind without your agency. But the error you commit is you then separate "assessment" and "decisions" from thoughts, as though they are something else, when they also just pop into conscious view on their own, like all your other thoughts.

I'll preemptively forgive you for your response to this, as you can't help but to think what you're about to think, as it's just going to arise into your conscious view without your agency
Your decisions are thoughts.. but so what. Your thoughts form to choices. you have free will.
3
Mar 04, 2025 03:44 AM
1,190 Posts
Joined Mar 2014
RickyE3678Mar 04, 2025 03:44 AM
1,190 Posts
I choose to exercise my free will not to read this
4

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Mar 04, 2025 04:40 AM
1,030 Posts
Joined Nov 2012
MozVoltaMar 04, 2025 04:40 AM
1,030 Posts
Quote from infin8007 :
Your decisions are thoughts.. but so what. Your thoughts form to choices. you have free will.
Your decisions are thoughts... that come into conscious view without any agency, therefore no free will. Which part of that can you not grasp? "Your thoughts form to choices"... That sounds like even less free will, by your own words. How exactly do "thoughts form to choices"?... Is it without any thinking involved? If so: no free will. Is it because the "choice" just sprang into your mind? That also doesn't involve free will....

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