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Forum Thread

Tire mounting

38,341 5,378 September 24, 2012 at 09:05 AM in Autos
I got in on the DTD deal a couple weeks ago as my car will need new tires by the winter. So now I have 4 tires sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.

I'm looking for a place to mount/balance them and to my surprise, a couple shops have refused. Their excuse is "if we tear it, then we owe you a new tire" .... Uh OK. I understand that some shops could refuse on principle (e.g. they want you to buy the tires from them for profit), but work is work - if it takes a tech 1 hour to mount and balance 4 tires and you pay him $20 and charge $100 - that's $80 in your pocket. I'm also looking for a 4 wheel alignment, which is pure profit. I can understand perhaps turning down this business when your shop is packed (better to sell tires at a profit, too), but why do it when you're not busy?

Has anyone seen this excuse before?

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> bubble2 12,150 Posts
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Jabbit
10-01-2012 at 11:13 AM.
10-01-2012 at 11:13 AM.
Quote from Piccaboo :
Air Wrenches are standard in the business; if you are unhappy about your lugs being put on with an air wrench; put them on yourself, might I suggest Wink No Tech is going to take the time to put them on with a lug wrench Nono2 If you have a keyed "lug" might I suggest that you make darn sure on the paperwork when taking your vehicle in that you want that particular "lug" to be hand tightened; but it will not be the responsibility of the Shop, should it come loose on "you" , as an air wrench guarantees them that they are on "tight". Nothing worse than a tire coming off, because an lug or two , or three came off a vehicle. Their job is to ensure that the lugs are tight and ensure that the tires will not come of the vehicle as a result of the lugs not being tight enough.
A torque wrench is standard for securing lug nuts. An air wrench is not the way to do it. "Tight" is not an accurate unit of measurement.
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Deusxmachina
10-01-2012 at 11:24 AM.
10-01-2012 at 11:24 AM.
Quote from atc250r :
Yes but when the alternator you brought in yourself craps out after two weeks right or wrong your not gonna want to pay the mechanic to do it again. If its a part the shop provided then they will stand behind it.
It would be a good idea for people to clarify with their shop if the labor is covered in the event of a shop-supplied part failure.
Quote from Piccaboo :
Their job is to ensure that the lugs are tight and ensure that the tires will not come of the vehicle as a result of the lugs not being tight enough.
Some shops apparently think the purpose of using an air wrench on lug nuts is to warp the rotors.
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Iaaaiws
10-01-2012 at 01:24 PM.
10-01-2012 at 01:24 PM.
Quote from shhaggy :
I hate when they use the air wrench on the keyed lug. No matter how tight the regular ones are, a decent lug wrench should get it off. At best you'll need to use your foot. But I've broken the key for the keyed lug before because some ass used the air wrench on it. That one is not supposed to be tightened that much, the key won't hold up to the rigor, even if you HAVE an air wrench to put it on. I needed a tow after breaking that key.
I hope nobody takes that advice. All of the lug nuts should be tightened the exact amount. Tightening one or more different from the others is a good way to bend wheels or rotors or other parts. On basic old steel wheels you can get away with using an impact and hammering them up good and tight, but it still isn't the correct way to do it. The best way is with a torque wrench and tighten them by hand, especially with aluminum wheels, but just as important on any custom wheels. I would generally put the lugs on and snug them up with the impact just to where there was a little resistance. Then I would use a torque wrench and tighten them to the manufacturers specs, and there is no one standard number that applies to all cars--it needs to be looked up.

One acceptable alternative is to use torque limiting extensions on the impact:



Each on is rated for a specific torque amount an won't over-tighten no matter how much you hammer on them with the impact. I've always been a little skeptical as to their accuracy but supposedly they work pretty well.

To me it is always worth the few extra minutes to do it right. Unfortunately greed or laziness makes the most common practice to just tighten them with an impact and give them a little extra to make sure they are tight.
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Piccaboo
10-01-2012 at 03:13 PM.
10-01-2012 at 03:13 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
I hope nobody takes that advice. All of the lug nuts should be tightened the exact amount. Tightening one or more different from the others is a good way to bend wheels or rotors or other parts. On basic old steel wheels you can get away with using an impact and hammering them up good and tight, but it still isn't the correct way to do it. The best way is with a torque wrench and tighten them by hand, especially with aluminum wheels, but just as important on any custom wheels. I would generally put the lugs on and snug them up with the impact just to where there was a little resistance. Then I would use a torque wrench and tighten them to the manufacturers specs, and there is no one standard number that applies to all cars--it needs to be looked up.

One acceptable alternative is to use torque limiting extensions on the impact:



Each on is rated for a specific torque amount an won't over-tighten no matter how much you hammer on them with the impact. I've always been a little skeptical as to their accuracy but supposedly they work pretty well.

To me it is always worth the few extra minutes to do it right. Unfortunately greed or laziness makes the most common practice to just tighten them with an impact and give them a little extra to make sure they are tight.
That's what we use and they are called "Torque Sticks" - plus we use a "star pattern" - I'm sure you understand what I mean by that for five-lug vehicles - and six lugs is a criss-cross pattern - that ensures that the lugs are not over tightened as well. But no matter what an impact air wrench is used.
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Piccaboo
10-01-2012 at 03:15 PM.
10-01-2012 at 03:15 PM.
Quote from Jabbit :
A torque wrench is standard for securing lug nuts. An air wrench is not the way to do it. "Tight" is not an accurate unit of measurement.
See my reply regarding this...
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Piccaboo
10-01-2012 at 03:20 PM.
10-01-2012 at 03:20 PM.
Quote from Deusxmachina :
It would be a good idea for people to clarify with their shop if the labor is covered in the event of a shop-supplied part failure.

Some shops apparently think the purpose of using an air wrench on lug nuts is to warp the rotors.

Then you have your vehicle at the wrong shop, if they are warping your rotors EEK!

Also, if a shop supplies the part, and the part fails; it's on them for the labor if it's a "come back" as a result of a failed part; or at least it is with us. There is always the chance of a bad part coming through hopefully we catch it before the vehicle leaves the shop.
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Iaaaiws
10-01-2012 at 05:46 PM.
10-01-2012 at 05:46 PM.
Quote from Piccaboo :
That's what we use and they are called "Torque Sticks" - plus we use a "star pattern" - I'm sure you understand what I mean by that for five-lug vehicles - and six lugs is a criss-cross pattern - that ensures that the lugs are not over tightened as well. But no matter what an impact air wrench is used.
Do you use the extension ones like I pictured that you put your own socket on the end or do you have the ones with the socket built right in to the extension like these?



I always figured the extension ones would be more versatile but the ones with the sockets built in would be more precise. I never did end up buying either before I got out of collision repair and just stuck with using the torque wrench and doing it by hand. It wasn't like we did a lot of jobs where we took the tires off anyway.
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> bubble2 5,853 Posts
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ManUpOrShutUp
10-01-2012 at 05:53 PM.
10-01-2012 at 05:53 PM.
Quote from Frogstar :
I've never had a problem having someone mount tires I brought in Dontknow
This. ^ As long as the tires are the size recommended by the manufacturer, you shouldn't have any issues. I had my last 2 sets mounted at Sears and prior to that, I have used STS, Firestone, Walmart, and several others.

btw, make sure you actually need a 4-wheel alignment before paying for one. My 2000 Mountaineer has never needed the rear wheels aligned, though the front ones need frequent alignment. My 2009 Mazda with 80K miles hasn't needed an alignment yet.
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Piccaboo
10-01-2012 at 07:56 PM.
10-01-2012 at 07:56 PM.
Quote from Iaaaiws :
Do you use the extension ones like I pictured that you put your own socket on the end or do you have the ones with the socket built right in to the extension like these?



I always figured the extension ones would be more versatile but the ones with the sockets built in would be more precise. I never did end up buying either before I got out of collision repair and just stuck with using the torque wrench and doing it by hand. It wasn't like we did a lot of jobs where we took the tires off anyway.

Like the one's you have pictured, and as I said we call them "Torque Sticks".

With every Inspection; every tire is removed to check the brakes; and for most people; they want their tires rotated as well.

Could you imagine doing this with a "lug wrench" Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)
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Last edited by Piccaboo October 1, 2012 at 07:59 PM.
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medicchick
10-01-2012 at 07:58 PM.
10-01-2012 at 07:58 PM.
I've noticed that in Alaska where you switch over to studded tires every year there is no problem with ANY shop putting tires you bring in on your current rims, year after year. In Nevada they are iffy about it, same as in Georgia. Alaska shops also have no problem installing parts you bring in as long as you have the receipt as you are buying it from the same place they would be (assuming you didn't get it online but shipping tends to prevent that). I had one shop give me a discount if I brought the part in as their shop runner was out sick and they were booked up.
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Piccaboo
10-01-2012 at 08:46 PM.
10-01-2012 at 08:46 PM.
Quote from medicchick :
I've noticed that in Alaska where you switch over to studded tires every year there is no problem with ANY shop putting tires you bring in on your current rims, year after year. In Nevada they are iffy about it, same as in Georgia. Alaska shops also have no problem installing parts you bring in as long as you have the receipt as you are buying it from the same place they would be (assuming you didn't get it online but shipping tends to prevent that). I had one shop give me a discount if I brought the part in as their shop runner was out sick and they were booked up.

Might that be because Alaska, like Hawaii, everything is shipped in special; therefore, they know it's not like you got it from "Joe Blow" down the street. Both States are entirely different than the rest of the States; whereas the other States, you are able to purchase parts just about anywhere from AutoZone to any Supply House. Shipping to Alaska and/or Hawaii is not cheap; therefore I am able to understand them doing this nod

Someone else stated in a different thread about Alaska and vehicles being totaled; that they have to base the value ONLY on vehicles located in Alaska. Much different than in other States; where they have a wider base to work from.
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medicchick
10-01-2012 at 09:38 PM.
10-01-2012 at 09:38 PM.
I forgot which of the two of us had vehicles totaled in Alaska, but yeah we are treated differently up there. There are NAPAs, AutoZones, Shucks, and CarQuest up there along with every major brand car dealer. You can get parts just about anywhere from the parts stores, it's just that most shops don't mind using what the customer brought in. When we get the oil changed in the truck we bring in our own oil and filter since it is cheaper for us since it takes 10 quarts. We've been to 2 different shops that have no problem using it and disposing of the old. They only charge ~$10.

I haven't lived in Michigan in almost 10 years, but I remember my Dad bring parts into the local shop. It's just the different in locations. Alaska is very laid back/easy going and I have nothing nice to say about shops here in Nevada so I won't say anything...other than tires in the lower 48 should NOT cost more than in Alaska for the same exact product.
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Piccaboo
10-02-2012 at 09:01 AM.
10-02-2012 at 09:01 AM.
Quote from medicchick :
I forgot which of the two of us had vehicles totaled in Alaska, but yeah we are treated differently up there. There are NAPAs, AutoZones, Shucks, and CarQuest up there along with every major brand car dealer. You can get parts just about anywhere from the parts stores, it's just that most shops don't mind using what the customer brought in. When we get the oil changed in the truck we bring in our own oil and filter since it is cheaper for us since it takes 10 quarts. We've been to 2 different shops that have no problem using it and disposing of the old. They only charge ~$10.

I haven't lived in Michigan in almost 10 years, but I remember my Dad bring parts into the local shop. It's just the different in locations. Alaska is very laid back/easy going and I have nothing nice to say about shops here in Nevada so I won't say anything...other than tires in the lower 48 should NOT cost more than in Alaska for the same exact product.

Shops will dispose of your old oil, as many shops use your old oil to heat their shops with an oil burner that they have running, using the old oil as a source of "fuel".

Prices for tires may vary by volume on where your purchase them; and depending on the size of the Shop; depends on the discount you get when you purchase them. Same goes for any type of business when they purchase supplies at any business; they are given a discount based on their "volume" at that particular business, is the norm.

Alaska and Hawaii have higher shipping costs to move product to both of these states - therefore, the cost of purchasing items there is higher. Having been to Hawaii, we priced out items there; it is higher there for almost everything. I would suspect that the cost of goods in Alaska is the same. From what my son tells me, he has a friend who works both in Alaska and in Michigan; and he flys back to Alaska goods from Michigan, as it is cheaper to do so; than purchasing said items in Alaska. Tell me that prices in Alaska are the same as in Nevada or other states.
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> bubble2 38,341 Posts
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Dr. J
10-02-2012 at 09:44 AM.
10-02-2012 at 09:44 AM.
you kidding? most M&P shops around here will take waste oil from you off the street - you don't need to have them change it - because it's free heat for them!
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Jabbit
10-02-2012 at 09:58 AM.
10-02-2012 at 09:58 AM.
Quote from Dr. J :
you kidding? most M&P shops around here will take waste oil from you off the street - you don't need to have them change it - because it's free heat for them!
I thought that if you sold motor oil, you are forced by law to take back used motor oil. Maybe that is state-specific?
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