Blackwater Soldiers Run Over Iraqi Woman

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04-06-2012, 12:27 AM
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04-06-2012, 02:50 AM

amosem L2: Beginner Member sinceJul 2011 Posts91 LocationIowa Reputation 11 Followers 0 + Give Rep	http://vimeo.com/39647440 http://vimeo.com/39647584 http://vimeo.com/39647669 http://vimeo.com/39647732 http://vimeo.com/39648042 Here's all of them...
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04-06-2012, 11:37 AM

124nic8 Permanently Banned Member sinceAug 2008 Posts23,195 LocationLevel 5 Reputation 462 Followers 1 + Give Rep	Did they do it on purpose? Traffic accidents happen all the time.
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04-06-2012, 11:58 AM

Settler of Kairtan

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You're not. Supposed. To stop.

When you stop, you're made a target. When you sit in traffic, you're made a target. It's not their fault this woman for some reason decided to step out in front of a convoy.

Sadly, tactics like that are used by insurgents. They get a kid or woman to step out in front of a convoy, exactly like that woman did, hoping they'll stop. Then they launch RPG, mortar, IED, and small-arms attacks.

I'm not necessarily saying it's the morally right thing to do, but it's also not quite fair to armchair quarterback this.

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04-06-2012, 12:06 PM

124nic8

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Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey

You're not. Supposed. To stop.

When you stop, you're made a target. When you sit in traffic, you're made a target. It's not their fault this woman for some reason decided to step out in front of a convoy.

Sadly, tactics like that are used by insurgents. They get a kid or woman to step out in front of a convoy, exactly like that woman did, hoping they'll stop. Then they launch RPG, mortar, IED, and small-arms attacks.

I'm not necessarily saying it's the morally right thing to do, but it's also not quite fair to armchair quarterback this.

Cause they can't launch those same attacks on moving vehicles?

Really, how much more vulnerable are they when stopped for a couple of seconds to avoid hitting someone?

It seems these guys are the opposite of the soldier who recently was killed saving a kid from a similar fate.

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04-06-2012, 12:08 PM

IPT

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Quote from 124nic8

watch Generation Kill on HBO to get an idea what happens when a convey stops.

Code:

http://i.imgur.com/2ylDGNQ.jpg

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04-06-2012, 12:19 PM

TRNT L10: Grand Master Member sinceApr 2009 Posts15,822 Followers 0	Aren't you using "soldier" in a very loose sense? Also, if I recall correctly, us people no longer have immunity. So I suppose this/these "soldiers" might be in big trouble.
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04-06-2012, 12:20 PM

Settler of Kairtan

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Quote from 124nic8

Cause they can't launch those same attacks on moving vehicles?

RPG-7's are notoriously crappy. From wiki:

A US Army evaluation of the weapon gave the hit probabilities on a 5 meter wide (15 ft), 2.5 meter tall (7.5 ft) panel moving sideways at 4 meters per second (9 miles per hour).[8] This probability decreases when firing into crosswind due to the unusual behaviour of the round; in a 7-mile (11 km) -per-hour wind, the gunner can not expect to get a first-round hit more than 50% of the time beyond 180m.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG...babilities

They can attack with small-arms fire anywhere, but the convoy would just continue rolling and probably would be able to shrug it off. Mortars would already be calibrated to hit the area they're supposed to stop at, so yes... Stopping them in one known location would be much easier on that side. IEDs can go either way.

Quote from 124nic8

Really, how much more vulnerable are they when stopped for a couple of seconds to avoid hitting someone?

Stopped for a couple of seconds? What if the woman just stands there? They were blowing their air horns. There were several large vehicles clearly moving through the street at a quick rate of speed. I have no idea why she thought stepping out in the street would be a good idea.

Quote from 124nic8

It seems these guys are the opposite of the soldier who recently was killed saving a kid from a similar fate.

I didn't see a little kid playing in the street. I saw an adult deliberately step out in front of a convoy of armored vehicles. Perhaps I'm watching the wrong thing?

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04-06-2012, 12:23 PM

Settler of Kairtan

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Quote from TRNT

Aren't you using "soldier" in a very loose sense? Also, if I recall correctly, us people no longer have immunity. So I suppose this/these "soldiers" might be in big trouble.

They're not soliders, period. They're contractors. And it appears the videos were from 2005, the third deadliest year for Coalition forces.

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04-06-2012, 12:24 PM

124nic8

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Quote from IPT

watch Generation Kill on HBO to get an idea what happens when a convey stops.

Don't have cable, so I can't watch it.

But one spectacular example is not the rule.

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04-06-2012, 12:26 PM

Settler of Kairtan

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Quote from 124nic8

Don't have cable, so I can't watch it.

But one spectacular example is not the rule.

It's not "one spectacular example", it is the rule.

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04-06-2012, 12:30 PM

124nic8

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Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey

RPG-7's are notoriously crappy. From wiki:

A US Army evaluation of the weapon gave the hit probabilities on a 5 meter wide (15 ft), 2.5 meter tall (7.5 ft) panel moving sideways at 4 meters per second (9 miles per hour).[8] This probability decreases when firing into crosswind due to the unusual behaviour of the round; in a 7-mile (11 km) -per-hour wind, the gunner can not expect to get a first-round hit more than 50% of the time beyond 180m.[9]

Doesn't really say how much the probability decreases when the vehicle is moving.

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If they stop and she still stands there, then she clearly has a death wish. Dontknow

Quote :

I didn't see a little kid playing in the street. I saw an adult deliberately step out in front of a convoy of armored vehicles. Perhaps I'm watching the wrong thing?

I didn't see a video of the kid. It was on the news that a soldier sacrificed his life to save a kid from being runover.

Quote from PaintTheSkyGrey

It's not "one spectacular example", it is the rule.

"The rule" is portrayed in an HBO movie? You have statistics to back that up?

Like how many times a convoy stopped and was or wasn't attacked successfully.

Last edited by 124nic8; 04-06-2012 at 12:32 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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#13

04-06-2012, 12:33 PM

Lilian Paragon Level: 100 Member sinceNov 2006 Posts1,100 Reputation 41 Followers 0 + Give Rep	Occupying forces treating the occupied as less than human? What a shocker. The Iraqis should be glad we aren't just indiscriminately putting bullets in everyone's head... oh wait....
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04-06-2012, 12:34 PM

joer316 Knowledge is power Member sinceMay 2008 Posts4,761 LocationBazinga Reputation 1,658 Followers 0 + Give Rep	I agree with Cenk's comments on this issue Click here to feed a hungry animal! [theanimalrescuesite.com] It is well enough that the people of this nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. -Henry Ford
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04-06-2012, 12:37 PM

Settler of Kairtan

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Quote from 124nic8

Doesn't really say how much the probability decreases when the vehicle is moving.

Did you even look at it? There's a nice pretty chart and everything for hit probability on a 15ft wide object moving 9mph. I'd say they were going a little faster than 9mph.

Quote from 124nic8

If they stop and she still stands there, then she clearly has a death wish. Dontknow

So, you think the person actively stepping in front of a moving convoy who have air horns blowing doesn't have a death wish? You believe that disregarding the imminent danger is the sane thing to do? Looking at it a few more times, how were they even supposed to stop? The person literally stepped in front of them right as they were passing.

Quote from 124nic8

I didn't see a video of the kid. It was on the news that a soldier sacrificed his life to save a kid from being runover.

And I'm wondering how this is an apples-to-apples comparison. As I said, I saw no kid get hit playing in the street in these movies. I saw a person deliberately step in front of a convoy.

Quote from 124nic8

"The rule" is portrayed in an HBO movie? You have statistics to back that up?

Like how many times a convoy stopped and was or wasn't attacked successfully.

The "movie" was based on a book by the same name written by a Marine that was out there. It's a non-fiction work.

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