What ? No poll on the Healthcare ruling by SCOTUS set for Tomorrow?

Quote from rrc06 : More than a few people get treated at the best hospitals in this country. Have you ever been to the cleveland clinic, mayo, Mass general hospital etc? These are busy, busy medical centers who are able to help many patients. Remember, the vast majority of people in this country do in fact have health insurance and my point to all this was to stick up for our healthcare system while it is being trashed by those on the left.

Edit: Whoops, misquoted. Of course, those are the richest of the richest that fly into the country getting that care. I'm not saying Americans don't go there to get the care (of course, the hospitals have to treat them), but what I'm inferring is that claiming that the richest of the rich come to the US for medical procedures, doesn't portray an accurate picture, compared to a lot of Americans who wouldn't be able to afford that kind of care.

Essentially what I'm saying is this: Let's for arguments' sake say that the US offers the best care - that still doesn't mean that it's the best care for the US.

Quote from TRNT : What do you think addiction is, then, tough and clever guy?

The continued use of a mood altering substance or behaviour despite adverse consequences, tough and not so clever guy?

What does that have to do with anything? It's pointless to suggest that people can get addicted specifically to unhealthy foods. The only reason for people to continue to eat unhealthy and contribute to their obesity is either lack of nutrition education, or lack of self-control.

Quote from deathbyfire : The continued use of a mood altering substance or behaviour despite adverse consequences, tough and not so clever guy? What does that have to do with anything? It's pointless to suggest that people can get addicted specifically to unhealthy foods. The only reason for people to continue to eat unhealthy and contribute to their obesity is either lack of nutrition education, or lack of self-control.

So you are here to tell us that genetics has nothing to do with this. That feeding cows hormones has nothing to do with this. That food chains using "mood altering substances" has nothing to do with this. And you are ready to punish these obese people.

I would like to punish people with no heart.

Quote from TRNT : So you are here to tell us that genetics has nothing to do with this. That feeding cows hormones has nothing to do with this. That food chains using "mood altering substances" has nothing to do with this. And you are ready to punish these obese people. I would like to punish people with no heart.

Of course you mean that metaphorically, but those with no heart have it bad enough with the mechanical pump in there. Haven't they suffered enough.

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO : You have time to address all these other people's questions/comments, Please address mine.

Will a partisan bill passed by politcians who are bought out by healthcare companies "fix" healthcare in this country??? Really? you dont know the answer to that?

Travfar is for single payer/public option just like most liberals.. its not like we're pioneers anymore, all the other countries with higher HDI than us have some form of UHC. Gosh, maybe we should emulate them??

Quote from ASimpleMan : Edit: Whoops, misquoted. Of course, those are the richest of the richest that fly into the country getting that care. I'm not saying Americans don't go there to get the care (of course, the hospitals have to treat them), but what I'm inferring is that claiming that the richest of the rich come to the US for medical procedures, doesn't portray an accurate picture, compared to a lot of Americans who wouldn't be able to afford that kind of care. Essentially what I'm saying is this: Let's for arguments' sake say that the US offers the best care - that still doesn't mean that it's the best care for the US.

Whats sad is even if the US does offer the best care, and people fly here for that, it does so only because it doesnt provide care for so much of its population. If norway had the ability to simply ration so much healthcare away from poor people (like we do) and could focus that effort onto providing care to rich foreigners they could probably do a better job than we could.

Quote from Gotchaforce : Whats sad is even if the US does offer the best care, and people fly here for that, it does so only because it doesnt provide care for so much of its population. If norway had the ability to simply ration so much healthcare away from poor people (like we do) and could focus that effort onto providing care to rich foreigners they could probably do a better job than we could.

Pure conjecture. Over the history of modern medicine, especially during the last century, the biggest concentration of groundbreaking discoveries and the institutions that pioneered them are here in the US, not in norway. The rich foreigners that fly in now come to benefit from those legacies at those institutions

Quote from rrc06 : Pure conjecture. Over the history of modern medicine, especially during the last century, the biggest concentration of groundbreaking discoveries and the institutions that pioneered them are here in the US, not in norway. The rich foreigners that fly in now come to benefit from those legacies at those institutions

Pure irrelevancy. That most discoveries and institutions exist in our country doesn't relate to the quality of health care for citizens. We do have a larger country and population and are bound to have more institutions and discoveries than, say, Norway. Your point is entirely vacuous.

Quote from bsg75 : Pure irrelevancy. That most discoveries and institutions exist in our country doesn't relate to the quality of health care for citizens. We do have a larger country and population and are bound to have more institutions and discoveries than, say, Norway. Your point is entirely vacuous.

Obviously those cash-paying middle eastern sheiks in need of medical care must be flying to Boston, Cleveland and Rochester MN for the weather Norway weather can't be far off from that.

Quote from rrc06 : Obviously those cash-paying middle eastern sheiks in need of medical care must be flying to Boston, Cleveland and Rochester MN for the weather Norway weather can't be far off from that.

Of what relevance is the best care available in Boston, Cleveland and Rochester to those who cannot afford to fly in there, let alone pay cash for that care?

It seems that "best care in the world" does not help our average care much.

Such pride seems like a poor substitute for superior nation wide performance available in other countries.

Quote from rrc06 : Pure conjecture. Over the history of modern medicine, especially during the last century, the biggest concentration of groundbreaking discoveries and the institutions that pioneered them are here in the US, not in norway. The rich foreigners that fly in now come to benefit from those legacies at those institutions

Ive not seen a single link to all these supposed rich people from norway, australia and netherlands that fly to the US in droves because their own country "cannot provide them with treatment" for whatever ailment they have. THAT is conjecture. Are you seriously suggesting that people are dying left and right in europe and other places because they dont have "legacies at those instutions"?? and that only the rich are surviving because they can afford to fly to america and pay for healthcare out of pocket? What a joke. What happens is people fly to america because in america you can be a steve jobs and if youre enormously wealthy you can throw money at our system and get quicker care due to the sheer amount of facilities in america (priority goes to the WEALTHY).

You think everyone can do what steve jobs did? Put himself on several liver donor lists and then as soon as one pops up fly on his private jet and get the transplant done before anyone else?

I agree with bsg75 that america wins the numbers game, we do have more facilities that the wealthy can throw money at, but it seems like youre saying america is just more advanced than any other country and if you have certain diseases in other countries you have no choice to fly to america or die.<<< that right there is pure conjecture. I would say most wealthy norwegians would take offense to that.

Quote from Gotchaforce : I agree with bsg75 that america wins the numbers game, we do have more facilities that the wealthy can throw money at, but it seems like youre saying america is just more advanced than any other country and if you have certain diseases in other countries you have no choice to fly to america or die.<<< that right there is pure conjecture. I would say most wealthy norwegians would take offense to that.

We certainly have the biggest concentration of big-name centers in the medical community. I work in healthcare and know from others who've worked directly with those wealthy and elite who seek out the best care.

I have no links, and while there may be nothing objective to validate their reasoning, many feel that centers like the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, UCSF and Mass General Hospital are some of the best places in the world to get XYZ done.

All i know is I am glad to have insurance in a country which offers the best healthcare in the world to those who able to partake of it. And hopefully it stays that way. Take, for example, the colon cancer drug Avastin. It isn't covered in the UK under the NHS because the NICE said no. It has a documented survival benefit, yet it is felt to be too expensive. That sounds great in theory until you or your family member needs that drug.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health...-Nice.html

Quote from rrc06 : We certainly have the biggest concentration of big-name centers in the medical community. I work in healthcare and know from others who've worked directly with those wealthy and elite who seek out the best care. I have no links, and while there may be nothing objective to validate their reasoning, many feel that centers like the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, UCSF and Mass General Hospital are some of the best places in the world to get XYZ done.

Typically because we attract a lot of experts... partly due to our healthcare being so expensive you stand to gain more money. When you apply that laissez faire economics to health care yeah you'll attract a lot of really good experts, but id be interested in some concrete examples of "XYZ" where people in norway are dying, and the only solution is to come to america to give hundreds of thousands to experts.

Quote : All i know is I am glad to have insurance in a country which offers the best healthcare in the world to those who able to partake of it. And hopefully it stays that way. Take, for example, the colon cancer drug Avastin. It isn't covered in the UK under the NHS because the NICE said no. It has a documented survival benefit, yet it is felt to be too expensive. That sounds great in theory until you or your family member needs that drug. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health...-Nice.html

Yeah, this proves my point even more. When US healthcare was allowed to deny people healthcare due to pre existing conditions and all sorts of loop holes, and only have to deal with the healthier people, you externalize all true costs. You do realize that we spend more of our PUBLIC MONEY on healthcare than the UK right? then on top of that we spend a crapload in private funds!!! not only should our health care cover avastin for every american, it should cover $10k worth of plastic surgery for every american!!

Heres a nifty graph


What a god damn joke we are.

Guess what, in UK you can still buy private health care insurance, i wouldnt be surprised if it was close to the same price as it was here, and i bet their private health insurers offer avastin. For those that want to keep their grandfather alive for several months in the painful end stages of colon cancer then they can.

Quote from Xygonn : Of course you mean that metaphorically, but those with no heart have it bad enough with the mechanical pump in there. Haven't they suffered enough.

Most of those who complain others "have no heart", really just mean they want more out of others wallets......