Obama: "If You’ve Got A Business. You Didn’t Build That. Somebody Else Made That Happen"

Quote from burninator : Wasn't this you?

Yes, and like I said before; I was clear about the assumption I made in the same post you're quoting. There's no false dichotomy between [either] private or public schools because those are the only two options.

Are you perhaps raising this "issue" because I didn't use the term "public school system" instead of "public system" in that sentence? I thought that much would be implied by the context of the sentence within which it was contained and the fact that I prefaced it with the word "that".

Maybe we ought to have a debate thread on the proper usage of pronouns afterall.

Quote from riptide_slick : Neither of those questions changes the fact that Obama did not say what you claimed he did. But nice try a deflecting from that fact. Your private school teachers must be so proud of your ability to misrepresent someone else instead of actually speaking to what they said. I'm of course assuming that you went to private school because someone like yourself would never be caught utilizing that public system, right?

fine let's quote:

Quote : If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet

and yes your assessment is correct. I did not attend a single day in public school, 100% private schooled. So the only great teacher in my life.. was paid for by my parents, all while paying for other kids' teachers in that district.

Quote : Oh, you spoke about it? Why didn't you mention that before? This changes everything! This whole "private system" thing is intriguing to me because I don't live on private roads so I have to utilize the public road and highway system if I want to get anywhere out of my driveway. If you print out directions to, say another state, what private highways do you travel on? Are those private highways standardized at all, or do you have to guess how tall your car/truck/van/camper is before you go under its underpasses?

I mapped it real quick.. I travel 15.6 miles to work. 11.2 of those miles on the turnpike which costs me $1.60 each way. Thus so on top of standard state taxes, I pay .07 a mile for the majority of my drive. Thus I pay for daily use!! My state is actually going through a discussion of renting out this turnpike for profit.. but we shall see.

Also here is a list of private highways.. yes.. google can be your friend too..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priv...ted_States

Quote from DJPlayer : fine let's quote:

Thanks. I don't think that an honest representation of what someone's saying is too much to ask for. Perhaps in the future you can include that quote now that you have it handy instead of insinuating (as you did) that Obama was "attempt[ing] to dwarf an individual's accomplishments (somethings through great sacrifices) by saying [they] didn't do it."

Quote from DJPlayer : and yes your assessment is correct. I did not attend a single day in public school, 100% private schooled. So the only great teacher in my life.. was paid for by my parents, all while paying for other kids' teachers in that district.

Hey me too! But strange as it may seem, I still give credit to the public education system for educating a lot of my friends and co-workers. So even though I'm 100% privately educated, I've still derived benefits from the public education system.

Quote from DJPlayer : I mapped it real quick.. I travel 15.6 miles to work. 11.2 of those miles on the turnpike which costs me $1.60 each way. Thus so on top of standard state taxes, I pay .07 a mile for the majority of my drive. Thus I pay for daily use!! My state is actually going through a discussion of renting out this turnpike for profit.. but we shall see.

That would be an interesting exercise. As would it be if we were to go back ~60 years to see what kind of economic superpower we might (or might not) have become had we left the national highway system up to private enterprise.

You seem to have missed my question about traveling inter-state. I know quite a few people that live on private roads too, and if it weren't for that damn need to eat food or buy groceries from a store they could probably exist without ever traversing a public road too. Well that, and the ability to get to work. But who needs work, amiright?

So if and when you order anything online, how does it get to your house from other states?

Quote from DJPlayer : Also here is a list of private highways.. yes.. google can be your friend too.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priv...ted_States

Wow this google thing is cool! How does it link me to so many different things? I always assumed that the wire coming from my computer ran right to Slickdeals - is there some sort of nationwide (or even international) network that connects our computers? That's awesome! Whoever came up with that idea deserves some serious credit because I don't think this Google place would exist without it.

But more to your point, yes, of course private highways exist. And in California, I can take them .... nowhere. Bummer. Maybe I should try and take a train. I'm sure the gubbmint had nothing to do with the creation of those lines...

Quote from TRNT : A rose by any other...... Believe me, you agreed with me.

I will believe that I agreed with you when you start believing that you agreed with the premise that open immigration is good for the United States.

Until then, you would need to provide an explanation or an elaboration as to how I agreed with something you said when I said the opposite thing.

Quote from TRNT : is this natural rights that you guys speak of a matter of objective truth or is it an opinion, something that you merely belive in? Do you allow others to disagree with you?

I'm not sure if I can call it an objective truth, then again I don't have much experience discussing objective truths.

From my understanding, an objective truth is 'true' outside one's own perceptions. Is that the standard definition?

How do you apply such a term to individuals acting if all you have is your own observations (or hypothetical scenarios)? Do you consider the law of supply and demand an objective truth?

Funny how the right wing nutters think they live in a vacuum

Quote from TRNT : Well, these mindless Rightwingers that you are excusing often believe that you and parents were stealing from those people who had no kids.

Like I said, I understand that some people may see the system as unfair. Education (or lack there of) is one of the biggest problems we face as a nation. We are literally being flooded with throngs of truly ignorant graduates who have a very limited knowledge base. Many times, the education is biased, and political ideology is taught better than actual knowledge. I would add that the single biggest problem IMHO is that people are not taught critical reasoning skills and independent thought.

Quote from riptide_slick : Yes, and like I said before; I was clear about the assumption I made in the same post you're quoting. There's no false dichotomy between [either] private or public schools because those are the only two options. Are you perhaps raising this "issue" because I didn't use the term "public school system" instead of "public system" in that sentence? I thought that much would be implied by the context of the sentence within which it was contained and the fact that I prefaced it with the word "that". Maybe we ought to have a debate thread on the proper usage of pronouns afterall.

Not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that there might exist a third person, aside from the one who uses/approves of no public services and the one who uses/credits public services exclusively.

Quote from Danman114 : What makes the rate arbitrary is the lack of any reasoned and tested system of determining the rate.

It's surely not a trivial thing to test unless systemic bank failure were made common by implementing libertarian ideas, and it does seems to be updated when flaws are found.

Quote : Private insurance not only has thousands upon thousands insurable inputs in their calculations, they also have the market test. Meaning, if an insurer doesn't operate in a sustainable way, they will eventually cease to exist. The FDIC picked a price to start charging banks on (what would be considered by anyone in insurance) a whim. They may have picked some numbers to through into some equation, but the very fact they didn't adjust their premiums for 90 years should be a giant red flag to anyone looking at this.

Or it's a sign that they knew what they were doing for the most part. Newton's laws for example weren't obsolete due to lack of adjustments.

Quote : I think the context of the quote is actually to problem, and what Obama said would be more aptly called a 'Freudian' slip. His speech was highlighting how important he viewed government in its role in the economy, and he was discussing how individuals benefited from people like teachers, construction workers, etc., and rather than saying how they helped entrepreneurs, he (accidentally) gave them all the credit for the entrepreneur's work.

As much as it may reassure you to feel that he's an ignorant person simply because he doesn't follow some trite worldview, it's worth mentioning that reading too much into political speeches is folly in the first place.

Quote : One would 'homestead' a spring if it was unowned under a natural rights system. What this means is someone comes across an unowned spring on some unowned land, and they then claim the land as their own, and work to improve the land in some way. They might put up a fence around it, or build some sort of pump to help extract the water or they might decorate the property and care for it. One can't simply claim all that he sees as his property, it's important that they work the land to maintain ownership.

The irony of this socialism is profound.

Quote from riptide_slick : Thanks. I don't think that an honest representation of what someone's saying is too much to ask for. Perhaps in the future you can include that quote now that you have it handy instead of insinuating (as you did) that Obama was "attempt[ing] to dwarf an individual's accomplishments (somethings through great sacrifices) by saying [they] didn't do it."

WTF? he did .. he said and look back at the quote.. "If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that". Every business owner I've met has read the entire quote and has been ridiculously offended and felt belittled and demeaned. Many people have went through extreme hardships in attempted to make their business succeed (aka not fail). Then after all those sacrifices and ridiculously long work weeks you hear.. you didn't build that (w/o our help.. ). That's just a plain insult. But, if the government may take some responsibility for successful businesses, they must also take credit for failures. There are far more business failures than success stories.. is the difference the government or the individuals ideas and work ethics? That's a rhetorical question since the later is obviously correct.

Quote : Hey me too! But strange as it may seem, I still give credit to the public education system for educating a lot of my friends and co-workers. So even though I'm 100% privately educated, I've still derived benefits from the public education system.

There are alot of contracted people from India that work in my area and are on work visas. Should I thus be appreciative of the public education system in India? Per your logic.. I should.

Quote : That would be an interesting exercise. As would it be if we were to go back ~60 years to see what kind of economic superpower we might (or might not) have become had we left the national highway system up to private enterprise.

banks were run entirely for quite some time by the private sector. They even went through a major crisis where the owners of banks fixed the a possible recession. This is went the government realized the banks had to much control and took control. The country ran (at the time). Although I can't predict failure or success.. we have numerous examples of government failure simply due to running programs at economic losses.

Quote : You seem to have missed my question about traveling inter-state. I know quite a few people that live on private roads too, and if it weren't for that damn need to eat food or buy groceries from a store they could probably exist without ever traversing a public road too. Well that, and the ability to get to work. But who needs work, amiright?

Work? Isn't the argument about voter id the hardship of getting a voter ID card. Obviously those road and buses just aren't enough.

Quote : So if and when you order anything online, how does it get to your house from other states?

and it's built in China.. (which is probably is). How do you think it arrives here.. Or is the government now taking credit for the creation of water and air?

Quote : Wow this google thing is cool! How does it link me to so many different things? I always assumed that the wire coming from my computer ran right to Slickdeals - is there some sort of nationwide (or even international) network that connects our computers? That's awesome! Whoever came up with that idea deserves some serious credit because I don't think this Google place would exist without it.

and now we take a step back and wonder why the internet? ARPA was a group created to regain the arms race after the soviets launched the first satellite. The United States became paranoid of a possible nuclear attack from outer space. Did you want to give credit to war? or military funding? without either the internet would not exist.

Quote : But more to your point, yes, of course private highways exist. And in California, I can take them .... nowhere. Bummer. Maybe I should try and take a train. I'm sure the gubbmint had nothing to do with the creation of those lines...

Amtrak hasn't made a profit in like 4 decades. Funny how all these government success stories can't even come close to even breaking even. Seems as if the government needs to take an ECON 101 class. Actually I retract that.. the government needs to visit their early elementary school programs and learn to count change.. that's when you realize you can't spend more than you have in your hand.

Quote from ASimpleMan : Because that's the platform the Republicans have been running on for years now. They're not running against Obama, because they wouldn't stand a chance. They're trying to run against a made up character and calling him Obama. It doesn't take long for an intelligent person to find out what Obama said in context. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out it's true. They're essentially banking on the stupidity of the American public to look at these ads and then decide who their candidate is (like all deceiving ads). Mitt Romney's Speech at the 2002 Olympics, where he says the same thing that Obama said, only replace *Olympic Athletes* with *Businesses.* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEvUaoAY7lA Mitt Romney's Ad Debunked by his own Actor Jim Gilchrist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhy9xbCM0_c Then you have the time when Romney visited the Auto Repair shop for a campaign stop: http://nationaljournal.com/2012-p...d-20120719 Really, it seems like Romney is having a hard time finding people who WEREN'T helped by the government. Either that, or his campaign staff isn't doing their due diligence, which hurts his own credibility.

Ummm, do you not see the point that the man started and got his body shop going BEFORE getting any help from the govt???

What the heck is wrong with people that dont realize that any govt help (or regulations) almost always come AFTER a business is set up??

all the govt help in the world, but it will NEVER kickstart your ideas or business without you doing the hard work first!

Quote from kharvel : I will believe that I agreed with you when you start believing that you agreed with the premise that open immigration is good for the United States. Until then, you would need to provide an explanation or an elaboration as to how I agreed with something you said when I said the opposite thing.

Once again: you provided a description and called it natural rights. I agree with the description but disagree with what you call it. Another poster who believes in natural rights also seem to disagree with you.

You seem confused.

Quote from Danman114 : I'm not sure if I can call it an objective truth, then again I don't have much experience discussing objective truths. From my understanding, an objective truth is 'true' outside one's own perceptions. Is that the standard definition? How do you apply such a term to individuals acting if all you have is your own observations (or hypothetical scenarios)? Do you consider the law of supply and demand an objective truth?

Yes I do. At least it is a testable/falsifiable proposition. How do we test whether or not there are any natural rights?

Quote from SigX : Like I said, I understand that some people may see the system as unfair. Education (or lack there of) is one of the biggest problems we face as a nation. We are literally being flooded with throngs of truly ignorant graduates who have a very limited knowledge base. Many times, the education is biased, and political ideology is taught better than actual knowledge. I would add that the single biggest problem IMHO is that people are not taught critical reasoning skills and independent thought.

Like I said...

We are discussing two different things. I am ok with discussing your point. I even agree with it. But for some reason you are not willing to address my point.

My point: your parents had kids and paid property taxes. So did others who had no kids. There are many many rightwingerss who have called that theft.

It is ok to once in a while disagree with right-wingers.

I of course disagree with Rightwingers all the time especially on the stupid notion that your parents engaged in theft.