As a gun owner I dont promote CCW and think theyre too easy to obtain

Same with assault rifles, people can too easily obtain them and i do not promote their availability.

Guess i dont really exist in the eyes of the mods on this forum... sooo no opinion for me! My position has been decided for me, I'm either for arming everyone at all times (except for those with felonies of course!!) or im against any gun existing ever. Even though theobserver and I never said anything of the sort.

Careful with this thread. I apparently missed the memo but Podium thread topics can only be about subjects that everyone agrees about. Anything that sparks serious debate results in the locking of the thread.

All I can wonder about has been the justification for passing CC in the first place.
It prevents crime and saves lives.
In a state where CC is perfectly legal, CO, there must have been dozens of weapons in that crowded theater and yet not one of those ARMED persons walked up behind the shooter and blew his freekin' head off.
They may as well not have been armed at all.
So I ask again, is the justification FOR CC, actually a valid premise?
Does it do what it's proponents claim - prevents crime and saves lives?
Because by all appearances it did nothing of the sort in CO and yet the risks of having extreme 2nd amendment rights support goes on in oblivious ignorance of the reality of the CC law's effects in this very visible test of that reasoning.

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO :

OP, your position on this topic has nothing to do with the other threads being closed. Nor will it have anything to do with whether this thread stays open. You can police your thread via mod alert for personal attacks and trolling if you want it to remain open.

Quote from Iaaaiws : Careful with this thread. I apparently missed the memo but Podium thread topics can only be about subjects that everyone agrees about. Anything that sparks serious debate results in the locking of the thread.

You missed the memo where we no longer allow unlimited comment on topics that generate personal attacks and trolling at such an elevated rate. Police your own thread for such posts via mod alert if you are serious about such discussions.

Bottom line - We've already seen the hysterics associated with these kinds of shocking events and we're over it. Either control yourselves and your fellows, or talk about it on a forum with lower standards.

Permits don't kill people, guns kill people! Wait, no, that's not it....

I kid you not, Anony... the very first thing that entered my stream of consciousness this morning after hearing the news was "what the hell is CCW for, again!?!?" It's easy to say "if I were in that theater carrying, that psycho would be fed a lead salad and many would have been saved" but it may just be true.

Latest that I know of.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07...e-robbers/

Quote from Anonymouse : All I can wonder about has been the justification for passing CC in the first place. It prevents crime and saves lives. In a state where CC is perfectly legal, CO, there must have been dozens of weapons in that crowded theater and yet not one of those ARMED persons walked up behind the shooter and blew his freekin' head off. They may as well not have been armed at all. So I ask again, is the justification FOR CC, actually a valid premise? Does it do what it's proponents claim - prevents crime and saves lives? Because by all appearances it did nothing of the sort in CO and yet the risks of having extreme 2nd amendment rights support goes on in oblivious ignorance of the reality of the CC law's effects in this very visible test of that reasoning.

Do you always cherry-pick one example and that fits your argument and discount all of the other examples that show otherwise. Pretty tough to take you seriously.

Quote from Anonymouse : ...., there must have been dozens of weapons in that crowded theater ........

Maybe ... maybe not. DO you have any proof there were other armed people in the theater? It would be nice since most of your comments are based on this being true.

Also, just because someone is armed doesn't mean they can safely "take out" the bad guy(s). Besides making sure you have a clear field of fire to the "bad guy" you also have to make sure whats behind him (in case you miss) not to mention distance and type of gun you have (some aren't very accurate over 5-10 feet) and of course what exactly are you doing. Are you trying to get your loved one(s) out of there?

Quote from adams135 : Latest that I know of. http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07...e-robbers/

Doesnt seem like a great example to me, the criminals wanted to rob people of money, they used a gun to do so, shooting someone doesnt get them anywhere. They look like teenagers, i wouldnt be surprised if they had never fired the gun in their lives.

We're lives saved? debatable. When the guy gets up and starts shooting i would have been pissed if i was the woman sitting directly behind him. Imagine if she had died because he escalated it into a shootout and the robbers sprayed bullets into everyone on that side of the room?

Most senseless murder are drive by gang violence, i just cant get into the mindset that people are constantly out to get me. Even if i was in that situation and had a CCW i would much rather sacrifice all my belongings to not have to fire the gun, for fear that i wouldnt kill the robber with the first bullet and they could fire back and kill me and kill other innocent people.

Quote from Doctor_Wu : OP, your position on this topic has nothing to do with the other threads being closed. Nor will it have anything to do with whether this thread stays open. You can police your thread via mod alert for personal attacks and trolling if you want it to remain open. You missed the memo where we no longer allow unlimited comment on topics that generate personal attacks and trolling at such an elevated rate. Police your own thread for such posts via mod alert if you are serious about such discussions. Bottom line - We've already seen the hysterics associated with these kinds of shocking events and we're over it. Either control yourselves and your fellows, or talk about it on a forum with lower standards.

That's fine except that there seems to be two standards for acceptable posts between the Lounge and the Podium and when a thread gets moved from one to the other it is tough to keep track of what is acceptable. I guess also missed the memo about playing the role of a mod and policing the posts of others.

Quote from Gotchaforce : Doesnt seem like a great example to me, the criminals wanted to rob people of money, they used a gun to do so, shooting someone doesnt get them anywhere. They look like teenagers, i wouldnt be surprised if they had never fired the gun in their lives. We're lives saved? debatable. When the guy gets up and starts shooting i would have been pissed if i was the woman sitting directly behind him. Imagine if she had died because he escalated it into a shootout and the robbers sprayed bullets into everyone on that side of the room? Most senseless murder are drive by gang violence, i just cant get into the mindset that people are constantly out to get me. Even if i was in that situation and had a CCW i would much rather sacrifice all my belongings to not have to fire the gun, for fear that i wouldnt kill the robber with the first bullet and they could fire back and kill me and kill other innocent people.

I assume this means you believe everyone should wait until the bad guy(s) actually shoot someone before you do anything. I wonder how many cops would wait and how many would shoot just as soon as a gun was pointed at them and not wait until they were actually show.

Quote from Anonymouse : Because by all appearances it did nothing of the sort in CO and yet the risks of having extreme 2nd amendment rights support goes on in oblivious ignorance of the reality of the CC law's effects in this very visible test of that reasoning.[/COLOR][/B]

Can you imagine how much worse the carnage would have been had there been a CCW holder in the crowd? 200 people were running for their lives away from one heavily armed and heavily armored shooter. What good could a CCW holder do? Sure, maybe he'd be lucky enough to start the engagement close enough to the shooter to:

A. Hit the right target
and
B. Put enough lead on target to penetrate the armor and stop the threat

To accomplish either A or B would be miraculous. To accomplish both under real world conditions is absolutely impossible.