papa johns raising prices about a quarter per pizza, due to obamacare. thoughts?

Quote from agent00f : Why give the poor leisurely time to cook when they can work a second job? All that stress + unhealthy eating will ensure they die early and save us the social security and medicare. Win, Win!

I know you were trying to be funny but you actually hit on a good point. Many poor people do work second and sometimes third jobs. As a result, they don't have the time (or more likely the desire) to cook and swing by Mickie D's on the way home or grab something cheap to eat.

Quote from thikthird : ah, the good old podium tradition of trying to throw around logical fallacy names when you're blatantly wrong in an attempt to mislead others. vivahate's original point was it's cheaper to make your own food. i'm showing that it's not.

When you make a logical fallacy as part of an argument, it should be pointed out. It's not misleading or wrong. You did not show that it's not cheaper, you only tried to show that there is a budget issue because of some upfront costs. That did not dispel the FACT that it is still cheaper per meal, so yes, you moved the goalposts from the original point.

Quote : when you're poor there is a very real chance that your lights are going to be turned off or you don't have all the proper equipment needed to cook. unless you know of ways to cook without electricity or gas, or pots and pans, then it doesn't matter if you have "learned to cook" or not. even if you say poor people should go buy a loaf of bread, peanut butter and jelly, that's $10 vs $4 at mcdonalds.

Whatever. People that are as poor as your example should qualify for SNAP (among other programs) which should give them enough to purchase enough food items upfront without having to deal with making a choice between buying groceries and other necessities. However, this is not a food stamp thread so I won't get into how some of these people waste their program dollars on crap food and booze.

Quote : typical, ignorance, non-empathetic, can't-see-outside-the-bubble-they're-living-in libertarian/conservative thinking on display.

I guess when you argument sucks so bad you can't come up with real criticism, resorting to personal insults is all you have left. Mod alerted since your obnoxious ads hom is one of the big reasons people leave TP.
Since you are calling me out directly, how about instead of throwing out the insults, you actually provide an argument as to what I am ignorant about. Considering I know how to make healthy meals cheaper than junk food, it seems you are the ignorant one repeatedly claiming it's not possible.
As to no empathy, I can hardly see how anything I said supports this bogus claim of yours. So all I see is attacks with no substantiation. Why do you bother posting here if you're not willing to be open-minded enough to learn anything? You seem to have all of the answers and people that love freedom and want people to succeed with personal initiative and responsibility are living in a bubble while those that tell them they are too stupid to do it on their own and NEED a helping hand are the compassionate ones - makes me wonder who really is living in a bubble.

Quote from skiman : Some people do. I think the larger point of the conversation is that we can eat more affordably and more healthfully at home, in comparison to eating fast food.

Stop it, you can't make this claim unless you are an evil conservative/libertarian.

Quote : You seem to have all of the answers and people that love freedom and want people to succeed with personal initiative and responsibility are living in a bubble while those that tell them they are too stupid to do it on their own and NEED a helping hand are the compassionate ones - makes me wonder who really is living in a bubble.

If advertising for McDonalds and whatnot weren't effective, then I doubt they'd be the size they are today on the quality of their food. It's not as if anyone were immune to PR as the entirety of american conservatism can attest to.

Quote : If advertising for McDonalds and whatnot weren't effective, then I doubt they'd be the size they are today on the quality of their food. It's not as if anyone were immune to PR as the entirety of american conservatism can attest to.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion so I guess this too is merely a way to slide in a jab at people that disagree with your ideology. I guess that makes it a trolling post, something else that is against TP rules.

Quote from darkfrog : Stop it, you can't make this claim unless you are an evil conservative/libertarian.

So are you saying there no kind and gentler conservatives?

Quote from Foreveryours : So are you saying there no kind and gentler conservatives?

You have to ask agent, he's the one that has the 411 on the personal beliefs and attitudes of every conservative and libertarian out there.

Quote : And this has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion so I guess this too is merely a way to slide in a jab at people that disagree with your ideology. I guess that makes it a trolling post, something else that is against TP rules.

Given that we're talking about McDonalds and why people choose to eat there instead of healthy food, the first part is entirely contextual. Given that some form of conservatism feels it's above this, the second is also quite poignant.

It is however trolling to accuse others of this or any other arbitrary accusation without any attempt to dissect the content.

Quote from darkfrog : You have to ask agent, he's the one that has the 411 on the personal beliefs and attitudes of every conservative and libertarian out there.

Conservatives and libertarians aren't necessarily any more evil than the guy who stuffs his family with McFood because the ads appealed to him. Only difference is the advertiser.

Quote from andyfico : They don't have to be billion dollar pizza chains. It's not like Dominos or Papa John's have a monopoly in any town or city (although they might in a select few locations). For the most part they compete with mom and pop pizza shops and smaller chains across the country. If these shops have lower costs of doing business, they can undercut Papa John's and the bigger chains. Do you really think billion dollar pizza joints are the only pizza joints out there?

[NOSTALGIC TANGENT] Where I grew up in New England, we weren't really in a podunk area but we had no commercial pizza chains for ~20+ miles around. Everything was mom and pop shops, and they were plentiful . The quality and variety made it a great place for a pizza lover to live. Only homemade pizza can compete with the local shops for quality pizza IMO. [/NOSTALGIC TANGENT]

Quote from trancepire : [NOSTALGIC TANGENT] Where I grew up in New England, we weren't really in a podunk area but we had no commercial pizza chains for ~20+ miles around. Everything was mom and pop shops, and they were plentiful . The quality and variety made it a great place for a pizza lover to live. Only homemade pizza can compete with the local shops for quality pizza IMO. [/NOSTALGIC TANGENT]

So are there no local shops near you now? That must suck! We have a small place near us and when we are too lazy to make our own, they are a Godsend!

Quote from andyfico : So are there no local shops near you now? That must suck! We have a small place near us and when we are too lazy to make our own, they are a Godsend!

We do have one local shop in town, and the food is great! Happy hour all day on Sunday is a bonus too.

Quote from trancepire : We do have one local shop in town, and the food is great! Happy hour all day on Sunday is a bonus too.

I'll be right there!

Quote from trancepire : [NOSTALGIC TANGENT] Where I grew up in New England, we weren't really in a podunk area but we had no commercial pizza chains for ~20+ miles around. Everything was mom and pop shops, and they were plentiful . The quality and variety made it a great place for a pizza lover to live. Only homemade pizza can compete with the local shops for quality pizza IMO. [/NOSTALGIC TANGENT]

That must have been nice. Sorta like being in NYC.

Commercial pizza chains suck. Donatos is the only kind i can remotely tolerate, but it is really really expensive.

Homemade pizza is the way to go. I actually use my mom's spaghetti recipe (which is so good, it should be illegal) and chop up the meatballs, throw it on some homemade dough. It isn't as sweet as regular pizza sauce, but it is out of this world. Good lord, i'm getting hungry...

The only problem for me is my oven only goes up to 450 degrees. You need 550+ for really good crust. I did find out my outside grill gets up to 600, so i may throw my pizza stone on that bad boy and see if it works.