Images of NRA, Congressional Republicans on the decline

Quote from TRNT : So again......40% of guns are not sold by FFLs. In many states, a mentally challenged, mentally unstable, felon can walk to a private seller and come away with several guns in 5 minutes. Many people think that is outrageous. You?

the numbers of weapons sold at gun shows used in crime are 0.7%.

So are you saying guns sold at gun shows without a background check are 50x less likely to be used in crime?

Quote from TRNT : Ok, let's assume 1% of men commit rapes. Are we then to conclude that women are 50x more likely to rape? You have a serious flaw in your logic.

You have a serious flaw in your reading ability. You made the claim that 40% of guns are not sold by FFLs .That is a hoax number.
You have made several repetitions of hoax numbers.

Secondly you obviously don't get that most criminals are repeat criminals that is why your bizarre logic

You would fail statistics 101 with your: "conclude women are 50x more likely to rape."

You simply fail to understand the root of the problem crirninals on the streets, and assume all criminals commit one crime and stop -- even when never arrested

Quote from 124nic8 : Past performance is not neccsarily indicative of future performance, but keep hoping...

Not hoping just observing. congressional Democrats had a horrible reputation in polling compared to Republican presidents and visa versa.

When Bush and Reagan were president they had much higher favorability ratings in polls than the congressional democrats, Clinton had a higher favorability than Republican members of congress.

And that discrepancy has been sharpening for 40 years. The statement that Obama has a higher favorability is not relevant since any president from an party has and will

Quote from aero : the numbers of weapons sold at gun shows used in crime are 0.7%. So are you saying guns sold at gun shows without a background check are 50x less likely to be used in crime? You have a serious flaw in your reading ability. You made the claim that 40% of guns are not sold by FFLs .That is a hoax number. You have made several repetitions of hoax numbers. Secondly you obviously don't get that most criminals are repeat criminals that is why your bizarre logic You would fail statistics 101 with your: "conclude women are 50x more likely to rape." You simply fail to understand the root of the problem crirninals on the streets, and assume all criminals commit one crime and stop -- even when never arrested

I have no idea what you are talking about. Have a nice day.

Quote from aero : the numbers of weapons sold at gun shows used in crime are 0.7%.

Not all guns purchased at gun shows are purchased without BGC. I suspect most gun show buys are done with checks. So of that .7%, what fraction were actually private sales vs say a BGC sale (straw purchase or the buyer hadn't yet been put on the no buy list).

Quote from aero : Not hoping just observing. congressional Democrats had a horrible reputation in polling compared to Republican presidents and visa versa. When Bush and Reagan were president they had much higher favorability ratings in polls than the congressional democrats, Clinton had a higher favorability than Republican members of congress. And that discrepancy has been sharpening for 40 years. The statement that Obama has a higher favorability is not relevant since any president from an party has and will

^ This has nothing to do with my citing a 10% decline in the NRA's reputation.

Quote from 124nic8 : ^ This has nothing to do with my citing a 10% decline in the NRA's reputation.

Aaaaand, Obama's approval rate now fallen into the 40s...where's your thread on that?

Quote from jonsmith74 : Aaaaand, Obama's approval rate now fallen into the 40s...where's your thread on that?

Since they love to change their morals according to what polls say, guess we should expect him to get on TV and spew some centrist BS in order to raise his rankings.

Quote from jonsmith74 : Aaaaand, Obama's approval rate now fallen into the 40s...where's your thread on that?

Wrong. Current approval is 52% [cbsnews.com], highest since 2009.

Quote : As President Obama prepares to update the nation and an unpopular Congress at tonight's State of the Union address, a new CBS News poll shows that 52 percent of Americans approve of the job he is doing as president, while 38 percent disapprove. President Obama's approval rating is similar to what it was last month.

Quote from 124nic8 : Wrong. Current approval is 52% [cbsnews.com], highest since 2009.

Really...Gallup says otherwise [gallup.com].

Quote from TRNT : I have heard several times that 40% of guns sales are not through FFLs.

That 40% number is highly flawed and has been explained and debunked multiple times in multiple threads. It was a survey of ~200 ppl conducted largely before ANY BGCs were required anywhere for any gun purchases, and the methodology was clearly flawed. Some people may not have even recognized what an FFL was or that they underwent a BGC at all during their purchase. This was a terrible and outdated survey that keeps getting parroted by the gun control lobby.

Quote from AlfredoGarcia : That 40% number is highly flawed and has been explained and debunked multiple times in multiple threads. It was a survey of ~200 ppl conducted largely before ANY BGCs were required anywhere for any gun purchases, and the methodology was clearly flawed. Some people may not have even recognized what an FFL was or that they underwent a BGC at all during their purchase. This was a terrible and outdated survey that keeps getting parroted by the gun control lobby.

I posted this in another thread:

Quote : I thought this was interesting. Where did the 40% number come from? Well the data comes from an old study that was conducted around 1994. Here are the numbers Source Proportion of Total Guns Obtained Gun store 43 Pawnshop 6 Other store 11 Subtotal from retail 60% Gun show or flea market 4 Through the mail 3 Member of the family 17 Friend or acquaintance 12 Other 4 Total 100% http://www.politisite.com/2013/02...TPqb1fzma4 A few things to note. 1. The gun show sales are 98% through FFLs. Thus that should be 64% retail. Mail purchases can only be done through an FFL so that's another 3%. That's now 67% If we take out transfers in the family we are down to 16% are transfers without FFLs. I think the current federal laws are considering exemptions for family transfers. That means, according to the numbers used to get the 40% rate, we are actually seeing only 16% without FFLs. I'm not sure if the 4% or the 12% is the bigger concern but take it to heart, any time you hear the 40% number either you are being lied to or someone else in the chain of information was lied to. 98% reference in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFQJSabQMHE

Quote from AlfredoGarcia : That 40% number is highly flawed and has been explained and debunked multiple times in multiple threads. It was a survey of ~200 ppl conducted largely before ANY BGCs were required anywhere for any gun purchases, and the methodology was clearly flawed. Some people may not have even recognized what an FFL was or that they underwent a BGC at all during their purchase. This was a terrible and outdated survey that keeps getting parroted by the gun control lobby.

Can you please guesstimate the number? That is......ratio of gun ownership transfer between not family private people and those including FFLs.

Thanks.

And for full disclosure, it does not matter.....because a very small fraction of guns are used in crimes. So a tiny loophole invalidates all the rules and regulation and safeguards?

Quote from TRNT : Can you please guesstimate the number? That is......ratio of gun ownership transfer between not family private people and those including FFLs. Thanks. And for full disclosure, it does not matter.....because a very small fraction of guns are used in crimes. So a tiny loophole invalidates all the rules and regulation and safeguards?

Based on the data used to generate the 40% number I would say 16% is more realistic. That's 4% other in the data and 12% friend's and acquaintances.

You do have a point about only a small percentage. However, for that to work we have to have a single vector where the forbidden buyers know they can reliably get a gun without a BGC and without the buyer and seller knowing one another. Presumably if the seller knows the buyer and the buyer is shady either the seller doesn't care about BGCs in which case there is little evidence that mandatory BGC would stop the buy or the seller has enough knowledge to assume no back ground issues in which case, I suspect but have no proof, the seller is more often than not correct. BTW, this probably applies equally to family transfers. The F&A and the family vectors have something in common, they only work between people who already know one another.

What we need to figure out is the vector where buyers and sellers who are otherwise unknown to one another come together. For example, a gun show may not be a good location (the stats suggest it isn't) since most of the sales at gun shows are via FFLs. Some gun shows only allow sales through an FFL. A gun type Craigslist would be my biggest concern since buyers could reliably search for a gun and buy without a BGC.

I would also like to point out that readers should ALWAYS be suspicious of the quality of an article or statement when people talk about internet sales of guns. Excluding antiques and antique replicas it is illegal to purchase guns from other states via the mail (internet). Instead you have to have a local FFL, or in the case of handguns, FFLs on both ends handle the transaction. So even though the gun comes from out of state, FFLs are still doing background checks on the buyer. The catch is I'm not sure about in state ordering through mail (ignoring state laws). So it MIGHT be legal for someone in Atlanta to buy a gun from someone in Macon without an FFL and without face to face contact.

Still, if you want to talk about a loophole, in many places you can legally buy a cap and ball revolver via the mail. They are considered antique replicas and thus aren't subject to most gun laws.
http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/1...t108620280

Quote from ZeeDuck : Based on the data used to generate the 40% number I would say 16% is more realistic. That's 4% other in the data and 12% friend's and acquaintances. You do have a point about only a small percentage. However, for that to work we have to have a single vector where the forbidden buyers know they can reliably get a gun without a BGC and without the buyer and seller knowing one another. Presumably if the seller knows the buyer and the buyer is shady either the seller doesn't care about BGCs in which case there is little evidence that mandatory BGC would stop the buy or the seller has enough knowledge to assume no back ground issues in which case, I suspect but have no proof, the seller is more often than not correct. BTW, this probably applies equally to family transfers. The F&A and the family vectors have something in common, they only work between people who already know one another. What we need to figure out is the vector where buyers and sellers who are otherwise unknown to one another come together. For example, a gun show may not be a good location (the stats suggest it isn't) since most of the sales at gun shows are via FFLs. Some gun shows only allow sales through an FFL. A gun type Craigslist would be my biggest concern since buyers could reliably search for a gun and buy without a BGC. I would also like to point out that readers should ALWAYS be suspicious of the quality of an article or statement when people talk about internet sales of guns. Excluding antiques and antique replicas it is illegal to purchase guns from other states via the mail (internet). Instead you have to have a local FFL, or in the case of handguns, FFLs on both ends handle the transaction. So even though the gun comes from out of state, FFLs are still doing background checks on the buyer. The catch is I'm not sure about in state ordering through mail (ignoring state laws). So it MIGHT be legal for someone in Atlanta to buy a gun from someone in Macon without an FFL and without face to face contact. Still, if you want to talk about a loophole, in many places you can legally buy a cap and ball revolver via the mail. They are considered antique replicas and thus aren't subject to most gun laws. http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/1...t108620280

I mostly agree with this reasonable and thoughtful post except the highlighted part. Many a people might do marginally immoral things (say selling a gun to a shady person if it is not illegal) while they would not if the same was illegal.