Images of NRA, Congressional Republicans on the decline

Quote from TRNT : Can you please guesstimate the number? That is......ratio of gun ownership transfer between not family private people and those including FFLs. Thanks. And for full disclosure, it does not matter.....because a very small fraction of guns are used in crimes. So a tiny loophole invalidates all the rules and regulation and safeguards?

I would not guess. I prefer to use sound methods, unlike the gun control lobby.

If such a "loophole" exists, then why has violent crime been decreasing for decades? Don't the criminals know they can buy whatever they want at a gun show (including grenade launchers per Feinstein et al) w/o fear of being caught (as per the claims of the gun control lobby)? In reality, the only sales exempt from BGC (FEDERALLY) are private person-to-person sales, and may people still opt to require some form of ID or BGC. Some states still require BGCs despite the federal "loophole". Gun shows are largely dealers (i.e. FFL holders who have to run a BGC), so I'm not sure why they gave the "loophole" it's name.

In reality, the government will never be able to regulate criminals sales of firearms b/c they're already illegal, "loophole" or not. Private sales rely on the private sellers to disclose to the government that they are selling a gun and to whom, even with universal BGCs. Criminal sellers and criminals buyers will still conduct their person-to-person transactions w/o involving the government (for obvious reasons), just as they did with alcohol during Prohibition and just as they do with illicit narcotics. We have enough gun control laws, and our violent crime rates have been decreasing for decades. More laws only serve to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Criminalizing an unwitting private seller doesn't benefit society. If a case can be made that the seller is not unwitting and knows or should have known that the buyer was a prohibited person, then that seller can be prosecuted. That is as it should be. A person unwittingly selling one firearm to a prohibited person one time does not need to be off the streets and in prison. A person knowingly and repeatedly selling large #s of guns to prohibited persons could be argued to be more of a danger to society, which is why that is already illegal.

Quote from AlfredoGarcia : I would not guess. I prefer to use sound methods, unlike the gun control lobby. If such a "loophole" exists, then why has violent crime been decreasing for decades?[1] Don't the criminals know they can buy whatever they want at a gun show (including grenade launchers per Feinstein et al) w/o fear of being caught (as per the claims of the gun control lobby)?[2] In reality, the only sales exempt from BGC (FEDERALLY) are private person-to-person sales, and may people still opt to require some form[3] of ID or BGC. Some states still require BGCs despite the federal "loophole". Gun shows are largely dealers (i.e. FFL holders who have to run a BGC), so I'm not sure why they gave the "loophole" it's name.[4] In reality, the government will never be able to regulate criminals sales of firearms b/c they're already illegal,[5] "loophole" or not. Private sales rely on the private sellers to disclose to the government that they are selling a gun and to whom, even with universal BGCs. Criminal sellers and criminals buyers will still conduct their person-to-person transactions w/o involving the government (for obvious reasons), just as they did with alcohol during Prohibition and just as they do with illicit narcotics.[6] We have enough gun control laws, and our violent crime rates have been decreasing for decades. More laws only serve to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding citizens. Criminalizing an unwitting private seller doesn't benefit society. If a case can be made that the seller is not unwitting and knows or should have known that the buyer was a prohibited person, then that seller can be prosecuted. That is as it should be. A person unwittingly selling one firearm to a prohibited person one time does not need to be off the streets and in prison.[7] A person knowingly and repeatedly selling large #s of guns to prohibited persons could be argued to be more of a danger to society, which is why that is already illegal.

[1] I don't know.........people becoming nicer?

[2] My guess would be criminals do know that.

[3] "Some form of ID"???? It saddens me that it is not at least a DL? It saddens me that the law does not require checking of "some form of ID."

[4] I am guessing that people say "gun show loophole" because it is a more effective way of communicating the problem. And it is factually true. In many gun shows one can get a weapon in a few minutes without any BGC or even an ID.

[5] But this is not quite true. Selling to a felon is not necessarily against the law.

[6] This is correct for people who are intent on breaking the law. However, for those who sell to shady characters under the protection of plausible deniability, a UBGC would work.

[7] I agree with this more or less. But if we clearly require a BGC under the law, then please explain to me how could a person "unwittingly" sell to a prohibited person?

It would be interesting to know how often the unwittingly sold to argument is used as a defense.

As for a law requiring some form of ID for a private sale, well that would be a useless law thus it shouldn't be passed. It's not so much that it demanding ID might improve things but that without any ability to enforce that law it makes little sense to force people to abide by it.

Quote from jonsmith74 : Really...Gallup says otherwise [gallup.com].

Well, Gallup was wrong about the election results, too.

Quote from AlfredoGarcia : If such a "loophole" exists, then why has violent crime been decreasing for decades?

Mostly what it reflects is not so much of a decline as it is to a large degree a reversion back to the mean. There was a bubble of sorts associated with demographics and a correspondingly larger number of young adult males in the population. You can see the same "bulge" in many other areas as well as the "Boomers" move though. Also, the peak during the mid-80s - early-90s generally is attributed to large increases in drug (crack) and gang violence at the time.

The above said, the numbers of guns has continued to rise greatly and doesn't follow the same trend line. In fact, the lines diverge (i.e., more guns =/= more violent crime).

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Quote from 124nic8 : ^ This has nothing to do with my citing a 10% decline in the NRA's reputation.

all groups are falling in reputation and the ACLU takes 20 and 30% drops in reputation when it defends the constitution too.
and all of congress ha fallen in reputation not just the republicans.
So your point is a tautology and a classic logic fail

Quote from AlfredoGarcia : If such a "loophole" exists, then why has violent crime been decreasing for decades? .

Yes, and more guns equals less crime. The drop in crime cant be explained by demographics (ie the claim th ecrime drop comes form less young adult males) that only account for a small portion of the drop in crime. Most of the drop comes from affect of increased gun carry and ownership

Quote from aero : all groups are falling in reputation and the ACLU takes 20 and 30% drops in reputation when it defends the constitution too.

Thanks for your opinion. Still has nothing to do with NRA's stupidity.

Quote : and all of congress ha fallen in reputation not just the republicans.

But Reps are well below Dems in approval.

Quote : So your point is a tautology and a classic logic fail

You mean inconvenient truth....

Quote from 124nic8 : Thanks for your opinion. Still has nothing to do with NRA's stupidity.

You still dont get it, the ACLU, NAACP and all civil rights organizations get attacked when defending rights. you think it is stupid, fine. what you think doesn't matter

Quote : But Reps are well below Dems in approval.

again that happens in the reverse every time. Please lay off the partisan talking points and look at the history.
During Ronald Reagans time the dem congress approval tanked.

The NRA and the gun industry are going to be bathed in more cash over the next year thanks to Obama than they could have ever imagined. More assault weapons will be sold in the next 12 months than the entire history. Back order demand is estimated to be 3 million on assault rifles alone. Every semiautomatic handgun in inventory was sold the past month and the factories are now on three shift 24/7 production.

Most are new to guns buyers. The number of household with weapons has skyrocketed from 40% when Obama took office to over 50%. The trend for 25 year has been massive rollback of gun control laws. there will be a slight bump in gun control laws but who cares, the long term prospects for increased gun ownership are great.

Quote from aero : You still dont get it, the ACLU, NAACP and all civil rights organizations get attacked when defending rights. you think it is stupid, fine. what you think doesn't matter

And your saying ^ this does not make it true.

Quote : again that happens in the reverse every time. Please lay off the partisan talking points and look at the history. During Ronald Reagans time the dem congress approval tanked.

Hard to believe since they never lost the majority under Reagan.

The only reason Reps are hanging is due to Gerrymandering.

Quote : The NRA and the gun industry are going to be bathed in more cash over the next year thanks to Obama than they could have ever imagined. More assault weapons will be sold in the next 12 months than the entire history. Back order demand is estimated to be 3 million.

Where can I get a crystal ball like yours? Or better yet, one that really works like you believe yours does.

Quote from 124nic8 : Hard to believe since they never lost the majority under Reagan]

man you are such an easy target I feel sorry for you.

The republicans Never lost a house majority under Obama either.

The only reason the dems are doing well is their relentless gerrymandering.

Obama is in a box and will stay there for four years and everyone knows it. Stop whining and crying about it!

Quote : Where can I get a crystal ball like yours? Or better yet, one that really works like you believe yours does

Crystal ball to note tht gun ownership is skyrocketing? Look at Pew and Gallup number on this, househodls with guns have gone up 20% since Obama took office.

NRA membership is skyrocketing. Gun production and profits are skyrocketing.

If that is your idea of hurting gun owners and the gun industry, you are one sad fellow