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Select LA/SF Dealers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15k Fuel Card Expired
$23,100
$52,408.00
after Tax Credits & Incentives (Select Locations)
Select Eligible Toyota Dealers [Dealer Locator] located in Los Angeles / San Francisco, California are offering to Qualifying Customers: 2021 Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Fuel Cell Car + $15,000 in Complimentary Fuel for 2yrs with 0% APR for 72-Months for as low as $23,108 after Incentives and Tax Credits. Pricing and availability may vary depending on your location, consult your local eligible dealership for more information.
Deal Details:
- Note: Offer is valid at select participating Los Angeles / San Francisco, California locations only. Refer to the forum thread for additional deal details and discussion.
Deal Details:
- Visit your local eligible Toyota Norcal Dealer [Dealer Locator]
- Shop for a eligible 2021 Toyota Mirai model that qualifies for the TFS Cash offer and Fuel Card offer mentioned on the page here
- Note: Qualified buyers can finance a new 2021 Mirai at 0% APR for 72 Months.
- Apply for and purchase a qualifying model with prices starting from ~$50,408 (may vary by location)
- Toyota Cash Discount will deduct $20,000 from your total
- You will receive a $4,500 CA Tax Credit (more info)
- You will receive a $8,000 Federal Tax Credit (more info)
- You will also receive a Complimentary Fuel Card valid for up to 2 years or $15,000 of fuel (more info)
- Your total after incentives and tax credits will be as low as $23,108 and will vary depending on your location and model selection.
Original Post
Written by
Edited March 20, 2021
at 12:06 AM
Let me start by saying Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles are not for everybody. Being that H2 fueling stations are limited, it's really only feasible in the LA / SF area.
YMMV but see below for the breakdown and explanation transcribed from u/acetech09 on Reddit
I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch
I have a 70 mile round-trip commute, and have been casually e-shopping for an electric or hybrid commuter car. But I never found something that that was a) well-priced, b) a worthwhile quality-of-life improvement over my current daily, and 3) charging an EV where I live is possible, but annoying.
My current daily is a 2020 MB Metris cargo van. And while I love it as a hobby equipment hauler, it's just an okay daily. Somewhat noisy, and base model so zero creature comforts to speak of.
Enter this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...after_tax/
I was intrigued enough to start doing the math and looked into the usability.
8 hours later, I had bought one.
Here's my review of the out-the-door numbers, and a lightweight review of the car from a performance-loving car nerd.
The math with real numbers from my sales agreement:
(edited, changed pricing from monthly to absolute to make it clearer)$50,408.00 (Sale price, $2k under sticker)
+ $5,200 (CA sales tax and registration)
- $20,000 (Cash discount from Toyota corporate)
= $35,608.00 (This is what I financed at 0% APR, 72 months, no fees at all)
- $4,500 (CA tax credit)
- $8,000 (Federal tax credit)
= $23,108.00 Effective post-tax vehicle price
The vehicle price comes out to $23,108. BUT, this goes further because of the complimentary $15,000 fuel card, which is good for about 50,000 miles or 6 years.
So, with that card, it makes sense to compare with other cars by including 50,000 miles of fuel.
Mirai: $23,108 base, free fuel 30mpg gas car: $23,108 base
- $7,500 fuel
= $15,608 out-the-door equivalent 3.4 mi/kwh elec: $23,108 base
- $4,000 fuel
= $19,000 out-the-door equivalent
If you compare it with $15-19k gas/EV equivalent, those vehicles are probably going to be used, with limited warranty remaining. So, there is additional unrealized operating savings with the Mirai as well.
Insurance and registration are about $100/mo for me. This is decently lower than other $50k luxury brands (per my policy at least), but I'm not including it since it's different for everyone.
After the fuel card runs out, the Mirai starts to get more expensive again due to the higher cost of H2 fuel over gas. However, I doubt I'm going to keep the car once the fuel card runs out. And, nobody knows what the depreciation will be like, so I'm keeping it out of this calculation.
That's $15k-$19k, acetech09. Not a 'free car' like some people were saying.
Yes, true. But here's the punchline. This car is really freaking nice.
It's not 'dirt-cheap' compared to a used commute econobox, but it's radically cheaper than any other Lexus-like, freeway-autonomous, tech-laden, fully featured and warrantied mid-size sedan.
For the price of this [craigslist.org], you get this [imgur.com].
Sure, it's cheap, but, how is it?
You might be a skeptic like me and think it's a $25k corolla with a $25k water-maker under the hood. But it's not. This is a proper, no-compromise luxury sedan. It almost directly compares with a top-spec, $40-45k Avalon, at least. Reportedly, this car was originally designed to be a Lexus, but brand politics happened.
Not really. It's not a drivers car of course, but it's a solid premium Toyota and delivers exactly what you expect and want. Really, just minor nitpicks:
Of course, the 'catch' is that you can only drive this car in the bay area and parts of LA. However, there are a lot of people in both those areas who only use their car for commutes and local city-errands. Within these markets, it's still pretty insane that you can get them that cheap - it's not like I'm the only guy who wants one.
Toyota does also give 21 complimentary gas-car rental days to the purchaser, like electric car sellers do, so people can take road trips if needed. 21 days isn't a *lot* but it's decent value.
At the pumps, it's almost exactly like filling up a normal gas car, sometimes there's a 1-2 car wait but they fill fast and it's not a big deal.
Conclusion:
I check all the boxes: lives and commutes near hydrogen stations, can take advantage of the tax credits, and has another vehicle for trips outside the hydrogen network.
Only time will tell if this thing gives me a bunch of mechanical problems, or hydrogen balloons in price, or some other unknown. But for now, I think it'll work out great.
Is hydrogen the future? Probably not. The only clear benefit of fuel cell vehicles over battery electrics is refuel time, at significant complexity and material costs. But I'm sure hydrogen stations will be around as long as this vehicle lasts. But if I ever replace it, it'll probably be electric.
Station map for your area (California only):
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
For Carpool Sticker information:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/car...arpool.ht
California Clean Vehicle Rebate $4500 for Mirai
https://cleanvehiclereb
Note: Income cap does not apply for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles! Source [cleanvehiclerebate.org]
Federal Tax credit $8,000 info
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/350
Note: this is a tax credit, applied when filling out tax return for 2021)
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...ta_mirais/
YMMV but see below for the breakdown and explanation transcribed from u/acetech09 on Reddit
I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch
I have a 70 mile round-trip commute, and have been casually e-shopping for an electric or hybrid commuter car. But I never found something that that was a) well-priced, b) a worthwhile quality-of-life improvement over my current daily, and 3) charging an EV where I live is possible, but annoying.
My current daily is a 2020 MB Metris cargo van. And while I love it as a hobby equipment hauler, it's just an okay daily. Somewhat noisy, and base model so zero creature comforts to speak of.
Enter this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...after_tax/
I was intrigued enough to start doing the math and looked into the usability.
8 hours later, I had bought one.
Here's my review of the out-the-door numbers, and a lightweight review of the car from a performance-loving car nerd.
The math with real numbers from my sales agreement:
(edited, changed pricing from monthly to absolute to make it clearer)$50,408.00 (Sale price, $2k under sticker)
+ $5,200 (CA sales tax and registration)
- $20,000 (Cash discount from Toyota corporate)
= $35,608.00 (This is what I financed at 0% APR, 72 months, no fees at all)
- $4,500 (CA tax credit)
- $8,000 (Federal tax credit)
= $23,108.00 Effective post-tax vehicle price
The vehicle price comes out to $23,108. BUT, this goes further because of the complimentary $15,000 fuel card, which is good for about 50,000 miles or 6 years.
So, with that card, it makes sense to compare with other cars by including 50,000 miles of fuel.
Mirai: $23,108 base, free fuel 30mpg gas car: $23,108 base
- $7,500 fuel
= $15,608 out-the-door equivalent 3.4 mi/kwh elec: $23,108 base
- $4,000 fuel
= $19,000 out-the-door equivalent
If you compare it with $15-19k gas/EV equivalent, those vehicles are probably going to be used, with limited warranty remaining. So, there is additional unrealized operating savings with the Mirai as well.
Insurance and registration are about $100/mo for me. This is decently lower than other $50k luxury brands (per my policy at least), but I'm not including it since it's different for everyone.
After the fuel card runs out, the Mirai starts to get more expensive again due to the higher cost of H2 fuel over gas. However, I doubt I'm going to keep the car once the fuel card runs out. And, nobody knows what the depreciation will be like, so I'm keeping it out of this calculation.
That's $15k-$19k, acetech09. Not a 'free car' like some people were saying.
Yes, true. But here's the punchline. This car is really freaking nice.
It's not 'dirt-cheap' compared to a used commute econobox, but it's radically cheaper than any other Lexus-like, freeway-autonomous, tech-laden, fully featured and warrantied mid-size sedan.
For the price of this [craigslist.org], you get this [imgur.com].
Sure, it's cheap, but, how is it?
You might be a skeptic like me and think it's a $25k corolla with a $25k water-maker under the hood. But it's not. This is a proper, no-compromise luxury sedan. It almost directly compares with a top-spec, $40-45k Avalon, at least. Reportedly, this car was originally designed to be a Lexus, but brand politics happened.
- Spacious, comfy, solid, quiet, cruises like a heavy full-size.
- Radar cruise control, lane following, full autonomy/driver assist package with granular settings. Power everything. Sound isn't audiophile-tier but is about as good as a production car gets.
- Bird's eye view/360 degree cameras, pretty excellent for checking your parking since the visibility is as poor as every other modern car.
- Not exciting to drive, but it's still extremely confident and flat in corners. The 0-60 is 'slow', but it's totally sufficient, and the electric instant-torque makes it capable of cutting through whatever commute conditions you need it to even with lower HP numbers.
- Huge dash screen with android auto/carplay.
- A really handy wireless phone charging pad in the center console.
- The digital instrument cluster display was easy enough to configure and interpret - i'm a big analog dial guy but this one took almost no time to get used to, and feels totally normal now.
- It has a 'pee' button. Seriously. The car auto-dumps the water exhaust when driving, and during shutdown as well - which could dump a lot of water on your garage floor. So you can manually push a button and have the car pee in your driveway before you pull it into your garage.
Not really. It's not a drivers car of course, but it's a solid premium Toyota and delivers exactly what you expect and want. Really, just minor nitpicks:
- Wireless android auto would be nice, to synergize with the wireless charge pad.
- There isn't multi-user seat memory. That's, bafflingly, part of the +$15k premium trim which is otherwise not really worth it.
- No spare tire, just fix-a-flat and a compressor. Not a huge issue if you're commuting this in the urban areas it's mostly limited to.
- No volume knob on the infotainment, you have to button spam.
Of course, the 'catch' is that you can only drive this car in the bay area and parts of LA. However, there are a lot of people in both those areas who only use their car for commutes and local city-errands. Within these markets, it's still pretty insane that you can get them that cheap - it's not like I'm the only guy who wants one.
Toyota does also give 21 complimentary gas-car rental days to the purchaser, like electric car sellers do, so people can take road trips if needed. 21 days isn't a *lot* but it's decent value.
At the pumps, it's almost exactly like filling up a normal gas car, sometimes there's a 1-2 car wait but they fill fast and it's not a big deal.
Conclusion:
I check all the boxes: lives and commutes near hydrogen stations, can take advantage of the tax credits, and has another vehicle for trips outside the hydrogen network.
Only time will tell if this thing gives me a bunch of mechanical problems, or hydrogen balloons in price, or some other unknown. But for now, I think it'll work out great.
Is hydrogen the future? Probably not. The only clear benefit of fuel cell vehicles over battery electrics is refuel time, at significant complexity and material costs. But I'm sure hydrogen stations will be around as long as this vehicle lasts. But if I ever replace it, it'll probably be electric.
Station map for your area (California only):
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
For Carpool Sticker information:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/car...arpool.ht
California Clean Vehicle Rebate $4500 for Mirai
https://cleanvehiclereb
Note: Income cap does not apply for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles! Source [cleanvehiclerebate.org]
Federal Tax credit $8,000 info
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/350
Note: this is a tax credit, applied when filling out tax return for 2021)
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/com...ta_mirais/
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Last Edited by jnads
March 24, 2021
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"The income cap applies for all eligible vehicle types except fuel-cell electric vehicles."
Source: cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/requirements/1470
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1. There is chip shortage so new car production is impacted
2. Honda and Toyota just announced stop or limited Usa production this year
3. This lack of cars drive the demand for fairly used car 2-3 year old to high. Used car price has been adding up.
If you are in the market for new car, used it will be hard this year. It's based on black book report. yCA Youtube channel can tell you more about it.
Don't know where you live and most of Americans live in country side with plenty of cheap gas and wide open roads. Prius might not be the best this there, but city folks like me hybrid cars been looking really attractive to me. I'm actually in LA BUT owning a fulecell car with limited station seems like a gamble🚗thete aren't that many in even LA AREA
Yep, definitely a risk.
I live along the 60fwy and am looking forward to the Shell Hydrogen station to open up:
2600 Pellissier Place, City of Industry, CA 90601
They're currently in permitting.
Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank armedmetallica
"I bought one of those dirt cheap Toyota Mirais - still waiting for the catch"
Our community has rated this post as helpful. If you agree, why not thank pyroskater85
For me the extra $15K in fuel card and having fueling options near me tipped it in Mirai's favor. If I count the fuel card value, my cost is ~$8,500 after tax financed at 0% for 72 months.
But fuel is expensive whether they give you $15k or not. That money they gave you for fuel will be gone real quick.
You can't drive as far on $15k in hydrogen as you can on gas or electric. Even a simple hybrid gets a lower cost per mile then a hydrogen vehicle. It's costs around $0.28-0.30 a mile to drive a fuel cell vehicle. A year of driving at the avg 12k miles is over $3600. Compare that to a hybrid that gets even say 40mpg, that same 12k miles a year only costs $1200. And yes there is maintenance on the hybrid unlike the fuel cell but if you plan on getting rid of it after the $15k fuel credit is finished. Then your better off leasing a hybrid then buying a fuel cell. Or even buying the hybrid as some manufacturers include maintenance for the first 2 or 3 years.
I wouldn't recommend getting a fuel cell vehicle for lease or purchase if 1. You don't live near refueling stations 2. You don't own a business and write the whole thing off And 3. You'd just have better luck with longevity with a standard hybrid or better yet a plug in hybrid then you would with a fuel cell vehicle.
I looked into getting the hyundai nexo but after finding out how expensive it is to refuel, I ended up going in a different direction plus it could only go 300 miles or so on a single tank which means I'd have to fill it up every week. Ended up with a BEV. And I only use a level 1 120v charger and I've never had to find a level 2 or level 3 just to make it home. Only on the long trips do I need one.
I've driven a 200 mile trip a couple times for free as I've found free L3 DC fast chargers along my route. And even if I have to pay they are around $0.20-$0.30 a kWh for Level 3 DC fast charger(at the stations I use).
I get 4 miles per kWh avg. Which is $0.05 per mile to $0.075 per mile when paying for it.
If you don't have access to charging at home. I'd recommend getting a Plugin hybrid as they have larger batteries and you can stay in EV mode longer. If you live in an area that has lots of hills a larger battery pack is great for regen on the downhills. In a fuel cell it has such a small battery that you can't make the most of it because there is no place for the excess energy to go.
On some downhill runs in the mountains I've been able to regen a lot. Sad thing is I don't remember exactly, I'd have to look it up in my photos as I took a photo of the State of Charge at the bottom, the top, and then back down at the bottom again. To see how much energy I've spent going up, and then regen-ing down. You can't do that in a fuel cell as it will stop regen-ing when the battery is full.
The only positive a fuel cell has is that you can fill it up in under 5 minutes. But with new EV battery tech coming out with 800v systems or even tesla's 250kWh fast charging, maybe you only need 5 minutes of charge to make it home. And then you charge up over night. And it's back to 90% or full.
But that's also based on if you can charge at home. If not a plug-in hybrid is best as it still costs less then $.05 per mile at $4 per gallon and 50mpg avg. And that's not including the fuel savings of driving in pure electric too when it's charged up from free stations, paid stations, or even downhill regen.
Well that's my $0.02 on fuel cells, BEVs, and PHEVs
Hope it gives people insight on cost and differences between the different types of vehicles.
i see electric car as a secondary car for a family.
bottom line, i don't think they directly compete with each other.
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I hate that area.
I value the $15k card like $7,500 because of the expensive cost of hydrogen right now.
~$34k after taxes (+/- $1k?)
Take off $8k for Federal tax credit
Don't think I get any CA state rebate (I make over the income limit)
So that's $26k for just the car.
I get free fuel for 3 years (I'll never hit the free $15k limit considering how less I drive). If I consider how much I spend on gas (8k miles/year, $4/gal, 25mpg) over 3 years, I'd have spent $4k on gas.
Effectively, the Mirai is a $22k car for me with the amount of fuel costs I would save from a gas car.
Then if after 4 years it's worth ~$9k (according to previous Mirai depreciation, reminder that previous Mirai has a much higher MSRP).
A 2017 Camry SE with 30k miles is worth $15k (from $27k new, after tax).
If I sold both of the at the 4 year mark:
* Mirai costed me originally $22k, sold for $9k
* Camry costed me originally $27k, sold for $15k
It seems to be trading the more luxurious cabin with refueling convenience at this point as the cost of ownership seems to be within several thousand of a Camry.
Tell me if I got anything wrong! I'm genuinely considering buying one but I've been on the fence for a week now.
i want a plug in so i can get free electric at charging stations.. but for now i guess i'll have to stick with my priusC averaging 58 mpg... and filling up at sams/costco.
I do have a CNG civic and once gasoline is 30% more than natural gas, i'll switch over to that as the daily, with a cheaper per mile cost... unless i can get an EV by then.
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