Costco Members: Apple Mac mini (Late 2020): M1 CPU w/ 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD

HapShaughnessy

May 20, 2021 5:25 AM

14.5K Comments

Joined Sep 2005

HapShaughnessyMay 20, 2021 5:25 AM

14.5K Comments

Quote from WingsOfF

:

This is not a problem anymore. CCC will create Big Sur backup snapshots and even bootable copies on another drive now. I do this all the time for a Hackintosh, to keep a backup before any update just in case.

When Big Sur came out Apple disabled a system feature that all these clone software were using for security reasons, not because they rushed it out. So, the backup software could create backups of data but not bootable backup/restore of OS. That has been solved in subsequent versions of CCC with considerable rewrite I believe. Not sure if Super Duper ever updated to handle Big Sur.

I backed up with CCC and SD before wiping the drive. CCC is NOT bootable in Big Sur like under OS X. It will not restore the system due to Apple's use of a cryptographically sealed and invisible "Signed System Volume". I found that out too late and wasted a week of my life restoring things by other means, including using an old Mojave backup, along with Windows and MacDrive to dig recent data out of the CCC backup that is not visible on the Big Sur, or even Mojave, desktop. This included my Microsoft Office user data.

https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/frequ...d-macos-11

Last edited by MrSkeptic May 19, 2021 at 10:33 PM.

WingsOfF

May 20, 2021 6:03 AM

3.7K Comments

Joined Nov 2012

WingsOfFMay 20, 2021 6:03 AM

3.7K Comments

Quote from MrSkeptic

:

I backed up with CCC and SD before wiping the drive. CCC is NOT bootable in Big Sur like under OS X. It will not restore the system due to Apple's use of a cryptographically sealed and invisible "Signed System Volume". I found that out too late and wasted a week of my life restoring things by other means, including using an old Mojave backup, along with Windows and MacDrive to dig recent data out of the CCC backup that is not visible on the Big Sur, or even Mojave, desktop. This included my Microsoft Office user data.

https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/frequ...d-macos-11

Did you read the web page you linked? CCC (with the latest version) can make a bootable backup copy as long as you erase everything in the destination partition. It only means you cannot do incremental backups. That web page explains how and why.

You probably used the version of CCC that was current when Big Sur came out and had that problem and never tried CCC after it was updated with the new mechanism with that limitation that it is the entire drive that needs to be cloned/backed up or restored at a time.

I have probably done this 5 or 6 times now and it works. You have old information. It is no longer a problem.

bonuscow

May 20, 2021 7:58 AM

2.9K Comments

Joined Jan 2007

bonuscowMay 20, 2021 7:58 AM

2.9K Comments

Quote from Teejaye1100

:

Yeah but for $599 and it's an M1, how long do people tend to keep these machines? Is paying the extra $$$ for 16gb's worth it when people may not even keep the devices 10-12 years? I'm guessing the usual average Joe ownership is 5-8 years, after that most people get a new Mac/machine anyway. So I'd say, 8gb's is fine.
At $599, keeping it 5-8yrs pays for itself.

Due to Mac mini's form factor, power efficiency, and longevity, users can buy a new machine while repurposing the old mini for something else (backups, smart home, server, etc..). I still have a 2010 Mac mini doing backups.

bonuscow

May 20, 2021 8:15 AM

2.9K Comments

Joined Jan 2007

bonuscowMay 20, 2021 8:15 AM

2.9K Comments

Quote from MrSkeptic

:

Another very expensive problem with today's Apple. Prior to 2016, you could buy a computer and later upgrade it by adding more RAM or storage later once your needs change. My daily driver is a mid 2012 MBPro. I've doubled the RAM and added a SSD over the years.

Now, everything is soldered, so upgrades are impossible. To get 16 or 32 MB of RAM or a bigger SSD, you need to pay 3 times the price up front of what upgrades would cost for the same configuration, even if you don't realize the need now.

No thanks, Apple.

ram is unified. GPU and hardware neural engine can make full use of the RAM which sits next to the SOC for faster access.

RobertR6285

May 20, 2021 2:06 PM

92 Comments

Joined Dec 2013

RobertR6285May 20, 2021 2:06 PM

92 Comments

Quote from palmfreeware

:

I think the issue is web browsing. Modern browsers have given up any form of RAM efficiency. After a days browsing (on Windows of course), I'm at 5GB just due to the browser. I don't run Mac, but I can imagine it will run into a similar wall (especially considering all browsers mostly use the same engine). For the asking price, it would have felt better to see it with 16GB instead of 8GB (at 699 starting). I might still consider this deal, but there is little future proofing here.

Nope. Totally different ecosystem and it is not affected by browser RAM consumption like a Windows PC. macOS is far superior at managing memory and 8 GB is more than enough for almost anyone not involved in developing, major video editing, etc

cdog90260

May 20, 2021 2:22 PM

2.6K Comments

Joined Feb 2007

cdog90260May 20, 2021 2:22 PM

2.6K Comments

Quote from aaa187

:

So which answer is really true

Some say it is, some say it isn't

I think it depends on apps you use, most the stuff I use are ARM apps, designed specifically for M1 type chips, take very little ram, like hardly any. Stuff that has to be converted will eat up more. How many third party apps are you running?

I dont run a whole lot third party, I have a crap ton available. I have the 16GB work issued, but I would likely get the 8 for me/wife when she wants to switch to mac.... the only downside with small ram, was video editing, that can chew it up fast.

TidalWaveOne

Pro

May 20, 2021 2:54 PM

13.9K Comments

Joined Apr 2005

TidalWaveOne

Pro

May 20, 2021 2:54 PM

13.9K Comments

All this complaining about 8GB RAM. I wrote programs on my 5K VIC-20 back in the day.

Oh, and I read the M2 chip has gone into production... so if you don't need this now then you may want to wait... Apple's 2nd gen stuff is often significantly better than its first gen (i.e. iPad, Apple Watch, iPhone, etc.).

Last edited by TidalWaveOne May 20, 2021 at 07:57 AM.

1

cheaposale

May 20, 2021 2:56 PM

1.2K Comments

Joined Nov 2007

cheaposaleMay 20, 2021 2:56 PM

1.2K Comments

Same $599 price on amazon (but no $50 coupon that most costco members can get).
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini...B08N5PHB83

HonestSeed1382

May 20, 2021 3:29 PM

282 Comments

Joined Nov 2020

HonestSeed1382May 20, 2021 3:29 PM

282 Comments

Quote from cheaposale

:

Same $599 price on amazon (but no $50 coupon that most costco members can get).
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini...B08N5PHB83

And additional one year warranty, 90 days return period

HapShaughnessy

May 20, 2021 3:41 PM

14.5K Comments

Joined Sep 2005

HapShaughnessyMay 20, 2021 3:41 PM

14.5K Comments

Quote from WingsOfF

:

Did you read the web page you linked? CCC (with the latest version) can make a bootable backup copy as long as you erase everything in the destination partition. It only means you cannot do incremental backups. That web page explains how and why.

You probably used the version of CCC that was current when Big Sur came out and had that problem and never tried CCC after it was updated with the new mechanism with that limitation that it is the entire drive that needs to be cloned/backed up or restored at a time.

I have probably done this 5 or 6 times now and it works. You have old information. It is no longer a problem.

And non-techheads are going to understand that jargony gobbledegook? So, it doesn't work with incremental updates. Dumb. Stupid. Apple's fault. All of the backup companies are scrambling and duct-taping.

I used the version from 10 days ago downloaded directly from their servers. The app does not explain this limitation at all. I found this article after the disaster. Additionally, BS bricked the Macs of many people simply upgrading.

I did a backup as usual. It would NOT restore. As I said, BS is not ready for prime time. Macs, under Steve Jobs, were easy, by and large, except for the rollout of OS X. Apple has jumped the shark, and to mix metaphors, lost sight of the ball since the 2016 iterations.

Last edited by MrSkeptic May 20, 2021 at 08:45 AM.

WingsOfF

May 20, 2021 4:17 PM

3.7K Comments

Joined Nov 2012

WingsOfFMay 20, 2021 4:17 PM

3.7K Comments

Quote from RobertR6285

:

Nope. Totally different ecosystem and it is not affected by browser RAM consumption like a Windows PC. macOS is far superior at managing memory and 8 GB is more than enough for almost anyone not involved in developing, major video editing, etc

Complete BS. MacOS manages memory differently than Windows given its BSD roots but not any more efficiently. Windows keeps a lot more memory committed even for closed apps so it can be reactivated quickly but if another app needs it, it can be allocated just as free memory without swapping. Just a different philosophy of memory accounting. So, in Windows you typically see most of the RAM is seen as in use most of the time with Process manager and this is what gives it a bad rap from people who understand.

But there are tools to take a deeper look on how much is committed. Ironically, MacOS has been going a bit more this way in their newer OS versions.

All modern OSes do a pretty good job of memory management. Apps written for them, not so much. This is the problem, not the OS.

WingsOfF

May 20, 2021 4:20 PM

3.7K Comments

Joined Nov 2012

WingsOfFMay 20, 2021 4:20 PM

3.7K Comments

Quote from MrSkeptic

:

And non-techheads are going to understand that jargony gobbledegook? So, it doesn't work with incremental updates. Dumb. Stupid. Apple's fault. All of the backup companies are scrambling and duct-taping.

I used the version from 10 days ago downloaded directly from their servers. The app does not explain this limitation at all. I found this article after the disaster. Additionally, BS bricked the Macs of many people simply upgrading.

I did a backup as usual. It would NOT restore. As I said, BS is not ready for prime time. Macs, under Steve Jobs, were easy, by and large, except for the rollout of OS X. Apple has jumped the shark, and to mix metaphors, lost sight of the ball since the 2016 iterations.

If you goal is to rant at Apple with "Back in the days…", go ahead. But the above has nothing to do with anything being rushed. It is an intentional evolution to increase security because Macs are now getting targeted for hacking. Apple has its own shadow file system for short term backup and iCloud for long term backup/restore. So, in theory, you no longer need cloning software. It is called evolution.

You can disagree with the philosophy but a dodo bird argument isn't a valid one.

1

ekobk1

May 20, 2021 4:34 PM

509 Comments

Joined Dec 2018

ekobk1May 20, 2021 4:34 PM

509 Comments

Quote from abugli

:

Very likely that this will only have 8gb of RAM, which might or might not be enough considering it is M1. There have been googlable discussions on 8gb not being enough for M1, causing SSD to wear more than usual

edit1 problem: https://bartechtv.com/m1-mac-ssd-...t-appears/ [bartechtv.com]
edit2 likely cause and "fix": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyMCoQmsv-I

This is not really a true statement and shouldn't be a consideration to anyone wanting to buy an 8GB machine. Theoretically the SSD would see more usage when you approach 8GB of phyiscal RAM usage with an increasing swap file, but realistically within the mac mini user demographic, how many folks go over that amount? Not very often. Of course, a swap file often exists unused regardless of physical RAM usage.

With that said, I saw a ~$400 gateway laptop with 16GB of RAM on the FP, so 16GB is really getting to be standard these days, so 8GB is a little low.

Last edited by pgharibi May 20, 2021 at 09:44 AM.

1

WingsOfF

May 20, 2021 4:34 PM

3.7K Comments

Joined Nov 2012

WingsOfFMay 20, 2021 4:34 PM

3.7K Comments

Quote from cdog90260

:

I think it depends on apps you use, most the stuff I use are ARM apps, designed specifically for M1 type chips, take very little ram, like hardly any. Stuff that has to be converted will eat up more. How many third party apps are you running?.

As a developer I can tell there is nothing developed specifically for ARM chips (except perhaps some system utilities if at all). ARM chips do not put any limits or constraints on how much memory there is so there is no special care taken to reduce memory (at least not in last 5 years or more). Even the mobile apps on phones and tablets don't really care what chip it is, it is just a flag in the build system.

There was significant work required to transition from 32 bit cpus to 64bit in many cases and take advantage of that but that applied to both Intel and M1. If anything 64 bit systems allow apps to allocate a lot more memory with a bigger addressible space not that most apps need it.

I am amazed at the myths that develop around Apple stuff rationalizing their decisions. If Apple had decided to make 16GB standard on all the newer machines, there would be endless rants on how 16Gb is needed for everything and Windows sucks because people use it on 8GB. Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)

Jobs did a wonderful mind trick on his base with "you are holding it wrong" philosophy. Apple continues with that.

1

WingsOfF

May 20, 2021 4:45 PM

3.7K Comments

Joined Nov 2012

WingsOfFMay 20, 2021 4:45 PM

3.7K Comments

Quote from pgharibi

:

This is not really a true statement and shouldn't be a consideration to anyone wanting to buy an 8GB machine. Theoretically the SSD would see more usage when it is used as virtual memory when you approach 8GB of phyiscal RAM usage, but how often realistically do most folks go over that amount? Not very often. Of course, a certain amount of virtual memory usually exists in reserve, just in case, regardless of physical RAM usage.

With that said, I saw a $400 gateway laptop with 16GB of RAM on the FP, so 16GB is really getting to be standard these days, so 8GB is a little low.

There are reasons more memory helps than just what is currently in use.

Modern OSes hang on to memory used by app code that have exited so you can start them up faster next time. Those can be allocated to other apps if needed as quickly as free memory because nothing needs to be written back. But if those apps come back up, they start much more quickly as nothing needs to be read from slower secondary storage. In other words, part of memory acts as a page cache even for inactive apps. The more memory you have, more they can do this.

If the system uses the same memory for graphics like AMD or the M1 chip then you need a bit more than others that don't.

Problem with 8GB is that at least 6Gb+ is not unusual for a set of currently running apps to be holding and so it doesn't leave much for the "cache". 16Gb is the sweet spot right now for this purpose. Above 16Gb is only needed if you have specific uses cases, like running multiple VMs, massively parallel media processing, etc.

2

Costco Members: Apple Mac mini (Late 2020): M1 CPU w/ 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD

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