expired Posted by Navy-Wife | Staff • Jun 18, 2022
Jun 18, 2022 10:43 PM
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expired Posted by Navy-Wife | Staff • Jun 18, 2022
Jun 18, 2022 10:43 PM
ACOPOWER 12V Monocrystalline Solar Panel Module: 200W $133, 100W
+ Free Shipping$66
$180
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These size and wattage of solar panels are great for using with towable trailers, RVS, camping and pulling out of a garage or closet (along with a rechargeable battery or power station) to provide low wattage power in an emergency. They're small and compact enough easily pick up and carry outside or placed and mounted around vents, skylights and other areas that would be next to impossible to fit a full size solar panel.
If you want to build a dedicated solar array for your home these small portable panels are NOT a good choice. They have a higher cost per watt than other larger panels, need more hardware to mount on a rail system, can require more cabling work, and are just generally a lot more work to install.
Right now a good target for panels alone + shipping is about $0.45/watt. You can also buy them by the pallet to get even better deals and lower overall unit shipping costs. If you have a local supplier you can save yourself a significant amount of money by picking them up yourself.
I have posted and contributed to other solar panel threads, and I've included a few of the links below. If you go through the comments you might find some general useful information. 👍
1 https://slickdeals.net/f/15756952-acopower-100w-12v-compact-monocrystalline-solar-panel-module-panel-only-66-free-shipping
2 https://slickdeals.net/f/15806137-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
3 https://slickdeals.net/f/15837301-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping
Otherwise for powering general equipment, typically one connects to a solar battery charging controller preferably with the MPPT feature.
That is a device which takes whatever the output of the solar panel is and uses the power to charge one or more batteries attached to the charger (the voltage and current taken out of the solar panel may vary; the MPPT feature of some chargers / charging controllers actively looks for the optimum voltage¤t load to get the most power out of the panel in any given time based on the light level etc. so the most power at the right voltage and current is always delivered to the battery for optimized charging).
So one could have several types of deep cycle type lead acid battery (flooded, sealed / AGM, gel cell) or a lithium iron phosphate type battery connected to the battery charger, and one can possibly use one or two or sometimes more such batteries connected in series depending on whether you want a roughly 12V voltage single battery system or a roughly 24V voltage dual battery system (two 12V batteries series connected), etc.
Then the battery / batteries are possibly / typically connected to another piece of equipment which is a DC to AC inverter which can generate 120VAC or 220/240VAC according to your model's type and the power voltage/frequency used in your location so you can power suitable devices typically powered by the AC mains grid by plugging them into the inverter instead when you are traveling off-grid (e.g. camping, RV, outdoors work site ) or have a particular location (shed, gate, outdoor equipment or whatever ) which needs constant power available day or night possibly from the batteries but which gets that power ultimately partly or wholly from the solar cells charging the batteries during the light hours. One can also have a setup that switches from AC mains grid power to battery backup / solar power depending on how much of which power source is available at a given time.
Anyway you don't HAVE to have an DC to AC inverter, and if you're powering things like USB-C powered chargers / devices (laptops, cell phones, tablets ...), low voltage DC LED lighting, DC powered equipment / security systems / tools / pump / whatever then maybe all you will need is low voltage DC power coming from the solar panel and/or the attached batteries.
Also of course you don't HAVE to have the attached batteries and battery charger, maybe you only need to power charging laptops / phones etc. or something that can deal with the power being available or intermittent day / night etc.
A common alternative to using the solar battery charger controller and batteries is an integrated 'power bank' type unit which includes in itself batteries, a charger for its batteries, maybe conversion to output some USB / USB-type-C ports to plug in other stuff to be powered / charged, maybe includes an DC to AC inverter to power AC mains plug in type equipment etc.
So basically the solar panel(s) generate as much power as they can and is drawn from them whenever there is some modest light on them (even overcast, cloudy but ideally sunny).
A battery or power bank system can store that energy for future use or to supply higher bursts of power if needed to augment / substitute what the solar panel(s) put out at any time.
A DC-to-AC inverter can output AC 120V or 220/240V to power plug in equipment if needed.
A DC input battery charger can be powered from solar panels or batteries input and used to charge / power other things like vehicle, laptop batteries, USB-type-C charging outputs, etc.
100w same price 50 days ago
https://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/fp/715918
Surely we have some people with experience?
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And I'd also assume if the above is true that they really ought to have a DC power input so you can charge the power bank from low voltage DC such as directly connecting solar panels like these (as well as alternatively charging from AC grid mains built into the power bank) .
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like just the right power bank plus a panel such as one of these could work
and be all you need except for whatever cabling or minor stuff like maybe a fuse / switch / connectors you'd need to connect them together.
Charge a generator doesn't make sense to me, I'm not sure what you mean there. Typically solar panels get hooked to a charging controller / charger which takes solar panel DC power in and charges a battery/battery bank correctly. Then the battery / battery bank is connected to whatever load power you want -- in the case of AC mains powered plug in loads you'd attach a DC-to-AC inverter to the battery bank to generate mains like AC 120V/220V/240VAC power.
In the case of powering DC low voltage stuff like some LED lighting, some IT equipment, charging vehicle batteries, or so forth you might be able to use the DC battery voltage more or less directly.
For example here seems to be a power station which is capable of charging from solar panel power directly or which can be charged from AC mains power. I have no experience with this vendor/unit and have no idea if it is good or not, it isn't a suggestion, just an "you get the idea" example of the sort of thing one might use with a solar panel to provide power storage and access:
https://smile.amazon.co
You'd want to size the power station and solar panel capabilities to suit your intended load power / energy usage as well as the recharging capability you'd like to attain based on available money / space / size / sunlight power etc. etc.
Normal MSRP, not sales, coupon deals, or by the pallet.
Even Alibaba doesn't have them that low unless you go to polycrystalline panels.
Just let me take one quick sec to continue writing this sentence just long enough for you to think I'm going to get you some magical URL that will sell you a solar panel at MSRP but somehow less than MSRP. 😂
https://en.m.wikipedia.
In short, MSRP is most effectively described as the price that a manufacturer sells product directly to a customer. The acopower 100w panel has an MSRP of $85 because that is the price of the manufacturer has posted on their Amazon listing.
It's going to be a very long time until you ever see a solar panel posted at $0.45/watt MSRP because the manufacturing cost would have to be close to $0.08-.10/watt, and current crystalline cell manufacturing processes cost more than that for just the materials alone, then the added cost of shipping, storage, marketing and sales. There will have to be some pretty major technological and manufacturing advancements before I expect to see MSRP that low. Hopefully sooner than later.
If you want a good deal and a good price, you're going to have to look for it. Where? Anyplace you can find it. Coupons, deals, wholesalers, distributors, and if you got the business cojones for it, the manufacturers directly.
The best price for solar panels that I've ever gotten was $0.18/watt after shipping on 220w polycrystalline panels. 14,080 watts on two pallets of 32 panels each, 64 panels total. With shipping it cost me about $2,600, including the extra fee to use the truck liftgate for unloading.
This was back in 2014 when solar panels were selling for about a $1.60-$1.90/watt.
They were clearanced because the paint applied to the aluminum frames was defective and never cured or bonded to the metal. It was just kind of tacky and you could peel it off. Solar panels worked perfectly otherwise. I divided them up into batches of 8 and installed solar electrical systems for friends and family.
If you don't keep your eye out, and actually actively look for good deals, you'll just be paying MSRP for the rest of your shopping life. 😉
Good luck. ☘️
And I'd also assume if the above is true that they really ought to have a DC power input so you can charge the power bank from low voltage DC such as directly connecting solar panels like these (as well as alternatively charging from AC grid mains built into the power bank) .
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like just the right power bank plus a panel such as one of these could work
and be all you need except for whatever cabling or minor stuff like maybe a fuse / switch / connectors you'd need to connect them together.
Charge a generator doesn't make sense to me, I'm not sure what you mean there. Typically solar panels get hooked to a charging controller / charger which takes solar panel DC power in and charges a battery/battery bank correctly. Then the battery / battery bank is connected to whatever load power you want -- in the case of AC mains powered plug in loads you'd attach a DC-to-AC inverter to the battery bank to generate mains like AC 120V/220V/240VAC power.
In the case of powering DC low voltage stuff like some LED lighting, some IT equipment, charging vehicle batteries, or so forth you might be able to use the DC battery voltage more or less directly.
For example here seems to be a power station which is capable of charging from solar panel power directly or which can be charged from AC mains power. I have no experience with this vendor/unit and have no idea if it is good or not, it isn't a suggestion, just an "you get the idea" example of the sort of thing one might use with a solar panel to provide power storage and access:
https://smile.amazon.co
You'd want to size the power station and solar panel capabilities to suit your intended load power / energy usage as well as the recharging capability you'd like to attain based on available money / space / size / sunlight power etc. etc.
spec for its solar input:
"Solar Input: 200W Max, VOC 12-28VDC/ 8.5A"
I believe that is within the bounds of the specification of these solar panels though I don't recall
seeing exactly what the 200W panel's VOC max. is, I very much suspect it is in the compatible range
listed for the bluetti at its highest possible value.
So I think either of these panels should be a good match for that bluetti unit.
Whether it is a better plan / deal to go with the suitcase or some other purchase selection I can't say -- I haven't
really been shopping for anything other than these kinds of panels to judge about alternatives to fit your different use case.
For the wattage and size and such though these panels seem an OK choice to me. If you really are going to
do a lot of portable use of the solar + power bank solution I can see why you might want a more foldable unit that transports the panel in a carrying bag rather than the larger panel with the rigid permanently attached frame these have.
Then again depending on the level of portability I wanted and my use case (e.g. camping, beach trips, vs. emergency preparedness, own a truck/suv vs. small car, etc) I might make some kind of custom "kit" to stow / pack / transport whatever I ended up with -- solar panels, cables, power station, etc. etc. whether using a rolling luggage cart thing or dolly or whatever else to stow, store, transport and protect the whole system and related gear.
But price / watt these seem good enough panels, but for optimum portability I guess maybe look at something that folds smaller or something if that matters to your logistics.
I'd be happy to haul these 100W or 200W sized panels around into the yard or occasionally transport them in a car with enough trunk/rear fold down space or whatever else. They're light enough, not huge, have a frame with spots to hold them by or you can add a carrying / tie down strap as needed, etc. so they're "man portable" as needed / occasionally but I wouldn't take one backpacking slung on the back of my pack frame just for fun, there'd be more ergonomic options for that level of portable.
Or am I better off with the suitcase kit? https://slickdeals.net/f/15837301-acopower-100w-12v-portable-monocrystalline-solar-panel-suitcase-w-waterproof-20a-charger-controller-2-kickstands-150-free-shipping?p=1555
So this is $.65/watt, if I'm doing this right. So what does get calculated in this figure? Just the panels? Any controllers on these? What needs to be included here? Some I guess get controllers, right? Any links on $0.45/watt panels?
Any links for an overall gathering of info? Like solar panels setup 101?
power bank unit or something which has an external 12-24VDC charging input connection that can be wired right to solar panels.
Then you could have the panels charge the power bank / converter and the power bank / converter (sold separately) would provide the USB charging ports.
Someone may make a solar panel to USB-charging converter unit that doesn't even include a battery, I suppose they exist, it makes sense as a possible use case, but I don't personally know of any never having checked.
But to answer your question yeah these are JUST solar panels with MC4 connectors and they'll put out something
like 12V-24V when the sun shines at 0-14A or something approximately in that range of available current.
The connectors won't connect to USB-5V or USB-C 5/9/12/15/20V regulated outputs without an external
regulator and USB port controller that provides the right connector and in the case of USB Type C handles the power handshaking protocol.
So this may not be what you want though in theory they should be usable as a piece to get there maybe with what might be a small additional bit of cabling / conversion equipment if you don't need batteries too.
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So this is $.65/watt, if I'm doing this right. So what does get calculated in this figure? Just the panels? Any controllers on these? What needs to be included here? Some I guess get controllers, right? Any links on $0.45/watt panels?
Any links for an overall gathering of info? Like solar panels setup 101?
Typically when you have a complete photovoltaic system completely installed you would take all expenses, including all components, labor, shipping, permitting fees, etc and then divide the total cost by the total usable wattage and that's how you get the common $/watt installed number that you'll hear thrown around.
There are a lot of ways you can keep that total installed watt / price ratio down.
If you live in Arizona Nevada or California you can't swing a stick without hitting a distributor or wholesaler, you can usually just go and pick them up yourself and save shipping costs. Shipping costs for me for a single pallet of solar panels will run between $400-800 each, depending on what distributor I'm buying from, so it's a pretty significant expense that needs to be considered and budgeted for, especially because it is often variable from location to location, shipping region to region.
Normal panels do not include a charge controller or inverter unless they are sold in a bundled kit. Bundle kits almost always cost more, often significantly more, than buying the components separately.
There are an enormous number of resources online and on YouTube that give you a low level overview on how photovoltaic systems work, and some can give you instructions on how to build your own. I would recommend you start by finding a couple YouTube playlists on photovoltaics and just go wherever looks interesting.
There is an awful lot to it, so don't try to just dive in head first, this is something you're going to need to pick up a little bit at a time over the course of weeks or months as you develop and grow your understanding. It's easy to overwhelm yourself with information on the topic, and no one person or site has all the answers(or even knows the questions!)
Well charging the flash light (or even a bunch of them) should be no real problem with even the most basic decent capability setup.
Running a freezer is going to take some more thought and planning and design work.
Unless you mean a small / portable one, I assume we're talking about a household sized moderately large chest freezer or something like that.
If you already have an idea what freezer you want to use you should find the nameplate power input type and power consumption ratings: e.g "240VAC, 50 Hz, 3A" or whatever it might be. You should also look up the "energy guide"
or energy efficiency sheet information for that model and get an idea of what its typical average power consumption is going to be. Even better would be to use a watt meter or other means to determine what kind of power the freezer consumes on an average day, how often it runs e.g. "15 minutes running at a time, once every two hours" pattern or what.
The actual power consumption will vary by season (hotter room temperatures) and if you've got it in a relatively warm or cold room temperature for whatever month of the year it may be, worst probably mid-summer.
So the point is if you want to keep the freezer running 24 hours a day but you maybe only get 7 or whatever hours of sunlight per day on the panels then you've got to have enough battery power to run the freezer on batteries for 18 or whatever hours a day e.g. in the winter when it's darker longer, stormy, etc. and then generate enough when it is light to recharge the battery the next day or something like that.
So just as an example if some freezer took on average 50W to run, 24hours of that would be 50W*24h = 1200 Watt hours of energy to run it on batteries so that'd be around the battery energy needed to keep it going, 1200 Wh = 12V * 100Ah so somewhere around a "12V" deep cycle 100Ah battery would start to be in the ball park of battery size.
If using a power bank / backup battery system with built in batteries and electronics then you'd go off the Watt hour and Watts capability of its power output and energy storage to figure out if it can run the freezer long enough based on its battery capability.
Also freezers have compressors with that take a surge of energy to start them running but after the first few seconds they consume a high power for the next however many minutes they run but not as high as the startup surge power. Then they cut out when it gets cool enough and the thing basically shuts off for several minutes or an hour or whatever until it warms up and the cooling cycle starts again.
So 50W daily average freezer power use might really mean that it runs 1/10th of the time, maybe 6 minutes per hour consuming ~500W when running, 0W when idle, and the startup surge might be 1500W for a few seconds or something.
So using those kinds of actual numbers to replace the above hypothetical imaginary ones you can figure out the size
of power bank you need and how much surge / running power it has to be rated to supply at whatever voltage (120V? 240V?) , and how much energy it has to have to get through a day and night on battery power to handle times when it's dark or the battery is being recharged.
Here's one power station someone else here mentioned maybe it's a better representative unit than the one I picked as a random example, I don't know.
https://www.bluettipowe
Just let me take one quick sec to continue writing this sentence just long enough for you to think I'm going to get you some magical URL that will sell you a solar panel at MSRP but somehow less than MSRP. 😂
https://en.m.wikipedia.
In short, MSRP is most effectively described as the price that a manufacturer sells product directly to a customer. The acopower 100w panel has an MSRP of $85 because that is the price of the manufacturer has posted on their Amazon listing.
It's going to be a very long time until you ever see a solar panel posted at $0.45/watt MSRP because the manufacturing cost would have to be close to $0.08-.10/watt, and current crystalline cell manufacturing processes cost more than that for just the materials alone, then the added cost of shipping, storage, marketing and sales. There will have to be some pretty major technological and manufacturing advancements before I expect to see MSRP that low. Hopefully sooner than later.
If you want a good deal and a good price, you're going to have to look for it. Where? Anyplace you can find it. Coupons, deals, wholesalers, distributors, and if you got the business cojones for it, the manufacturers directly.
The best price for solar panels that I've ever gotten was $0.18/watt after shipping on 220w polycrystalline panels. 14,080 watts on two pallets of 32 panels each, 64 panels total. With shipping it cost me about $2,600, including the extra fee to use the truck liftgate for unloading.
This was back in 2014 when solar panels were selling for about a $1.60-$1.90/watt.
They were clearanced because the paint applied to the aluminum frames was defective and never cured or bonded to the metal. It was just kind of tacky and you could peel it off. Solar panels worked perfectly otherwise. I divided them up into batches of 8 and installed solar electrical systems for friends and family.
If you don't keep your eye out, and actually actively look for good deals, you'll just be paying MSRP for the rest of your shopping life. 😉
Good luck. ☘️
Go back and read it instead of being snarky.
66 cents per watt is extremely good. This is almost pallet price before inflation.
45 cents for a poly panel is believable, but these are monocrystalline panels.
I'm inclined to believe you're just talking out of your keister on this one.
https://www.bluettipowe
I have zero experience with power bank / converter units like that, I've never shopped for them, so sorry I don't know what is considered good value / quality / features relative to the many such units I know are sold these days.
My own experience is more like in the realm of truly design / build it yourself stuff or UPSs or stand-alone battery banks, battery chargers, inverters, etc. as opposed to combined units.
I have a really vague recollection I saw some link to power bank reviews at some point? Rtings.com?
Consumer reports? Sorry I don't know but there are probably buyers guides / reviews out there.
Someone else here may have suggestions about good power banks / stations with significant capacities / feature sets / quality. I know I see them advertised now and then on SD here but I don't know if they're particularly good selections.
That's one thing where I wouldn't get the lowest price corner cutting unit, though, I'd got for a mainstream unit with high independently reviewed quality / reliability, some significant safety agency ratings, etc.
And I've seen such ball park prices advertised some times
e.g.
https://signaturesolar.
I haven't been the one buying them by the truckload at such prices, so I can't comment on how often that happens or how good of a deal it is or how reputable / quality the seller / product is vs. other options.
But it's hardly fiction. It just might not represent the 100% most common market wholesale price but it's within the general ballpark of reality.
Go back and read it instead of being snarky.
66 cents per watt is extremely good. This is almost pallet price before inflation.
45 cents for a poly panel is believable, but these are monocrystalline panels.
I'm inclined to believe you're just talking out of your keister on this one.
the installation will still need to pass inspections. some systems are also connected to the public utility power grid, which have different inspection requirements.
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75% efficiency would be awesome, no panel even gets close to that. That refers to the quantum
efficiency of converting light photon energy to electrical output energy.
If a panel is specified to produce a nominal peak output power of 200W +/- x% tolerance under specified test conditions then that's the amount a new panel has to put out under those test conditions otherwise the panel isn't meeting specifications and is faulty.
HOWEVER the ideal conditions to achieve that output is probably something equivalent to a perfectly sunny day in Ecuador at noon on the equinox with the sun precisely overhead with completely clear skies and the panel temperature being something like 30C.
Unfortunately for those of us that don't live right near the equator we don't just experience summer sunshine year round, the sunlight fades off the farther you move in latitude from the equator, fall / winter has more cloudy / hazy days, and so on. So therefore someone in Greenland who installs a "200W" panel might get less than 200W in their ideal clear sunny sky conditions because of the lower light at their latitude. And if you average it out over the month they'll get a lot less than that in fall / winter etc. because of storms, clouds, etc.
Also your panel should be pointed relatively well at the sun (or at least at the ecliptic area where you generally get a lot of mid day sun from) for maximum power conversion efficiency relative to the specified nominal maximum. It's OK if it's not, but you'll just lose NN% of that possible efficiency.
Is the sun at the zenith or are you testing at 3pm when the sunlight is significantly less than the daily peak?
And when your equipment is reading say 150W, what equipment is it, how and where is it measuring that 150W, and with what accuracy?
Maybe it is reading 150W flowing into your battery. Ok but to convert the energy from the panel to the battery your charger might only be 85% efficient or whatever so maybe the solar panel IS outputting 180W, but 15% is lost converting the energy to charge the battery, so the battery charges at 150W. etc. etc.
Details matter so it's hard to say if that's "ok" or "not ok" depending on when / where / how it is measured.
I can say I've heard 75% of nominal peak output figures mentioned several times in people anecdotally talking
about their system's energy meter readings. So I have to conclude that it's a "commonly reported" sort of reduction factor for small budget systems like this, but what combination of factors of location / season / time / equipment / installation etc. contribute to the losses can't be determined without specifying and analyzing everything to a much more particular level.